Can your command make you use your Personal vehicle to move Military equipment?

SPC Logan Daniels — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:25:30 -0400

My NCO’s keep having me load up equipment in my Personal vehicle to take to a training site and it’s kinda rough on my car and uses a lot of gas that I have to pay for? Can the force me to do this? I can’t afford to keep spending gas to drive the Army’s Equipment around with the money they pay me, especially while trying to take care of a family? Am I in the wrong to tell them that I’m not willing to drive their equipment?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 12:33 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:33:34 -0400

Your unit should provide you with the transportation to complete the assigned task. You are not required to use your POV.

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Sep 19 at 2018 12:57 PM

MSG Johnathan Mathes — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:57:35 -0400

NO THEY CANNOT...

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 19 at 2018 12:58 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:58:28 -0400

Ditto! Your NCOs should be educated.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 1:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:03:02 -0400

No, that’s what we have military vehicles for. For transportation of personnel and equipment

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Sep 19 at 2018 1:25 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:25:19 -0400

I'd ask for gas money.

But no, they can't make you. (And really SHOULDN'T even ask you - there is a lot of military equipment that you aren't supposed to have in a POV - and if something happens to it, it'll be your ass in the sling.)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 1:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:36:42 -0400

Your ncos are failing to reserve equipment needed for training in timely manner. Your unit has vehicles that your ncos could dispatch.
You are not required, ever, to use your own transportation to transport military supplies to the training sites. In fact, some things you are not even allowed to use your personal vehicle to transport.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 19 at 2018 1:49 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:49:50 -0400

You have the absolute right to say no. They are using private means to conduct government business. That is breaking Federal Fiscal Law. Shame on your NCO's for using you like that. Tell us what happens.

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Sep 19 at 2018 1:55 PM

CPT Andrew Wright — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:55:58 -0400

True they shouldn't make you use your POV but you could always walk or ride in the back of a cargo truck to get to training. Best of Luck!

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Sep 19 at 2018 2:13 PM

LTC Eugene Chu — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:13:06 -0400

Their order for you to use your POV for unit's military equipment could also be illegal.

Not sure what you are being ordered to transport, but there are strict regulations for moving weapons and ammunition as one extreme example. If service members used their own vehicles for that task, it would violate safety and security regulations in effect at most bases.

Response by SGT Robert Cupp made Sep 19 at 2018 2:20 PM

SGT Robert Cupp — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:20:04 -0400

Your platoon should be able to dispatch a humvee or an lmtv to haul around equipment. That’s what they’re for. It sounds like someone is just being lazy.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 2:36 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:36:09 -0400

Just say No! It's their job to request MT assets ISO the training. Your POV is not considered a military MT asset.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 2:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:53:59 -0400

I prefer to use my pov. However i have never been told i had to.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Sep 19 at 2018 3:16 PM

SFC Harry H. — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:16:02 -0400

Absolutely not, nip it in the butt now. Did you offer it up once before, being a nice guy? Be respectful like, but let them know. You are the one paying the gas, insurance, and car payment. Besides, is the training site out on the ranges? Most bases won't allow POV's out on range roads without checking in with range control and a range pass.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Sep 19 at 2018 3:31 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:31:07 -0400

No you don't have to involuntarily haul equipment to a training site on your dime. The Unit is responsible for getting military equipment to and from sites for official use. Look at AR 660-20 and 350-1, they discuss unit and command responsibilities for training and what is and isn't appropriate.

Depending on the rules for use of the training site and local POV policies the leaders can authorize you to use your vehicle for your convenience at no cost to the government. That is a consideration you would ask for.

Tactfully approach your Squad and Platoon NCOs and let them know you need a military vehicle to get you and your training gear to the training site. If it remains an issue ask to see the 1SG or go see Top on the open door.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 5:29 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:29:43 -0400

I am sure there is more to the story. However like some have stated they can NOT make you use your on vehicle. However they can make it painful for you if you elect to not use your own vehicle. It sounds like maybe your unit is short staffed otherwise it would be to easy to just take a hummvee with you being a driver and have an NCO TC out there assuming thats your units SOP.

That being said we all know the ass pain that comes with using a military vehicle. You need 15 forms signed by different commanders and depending on where your driving lets say its off post you may need an off post dispatch which is even more paperwork.

Then there is the whole needing to make sure you have all your BII, and your plan for fuel assuming your driving as much as you say you are. Again the Army is set up for all these things but some units mainteance sections are better than others.

Then lastly depending on when your making these trips may require you to have to call staff duty to unlock and re-lock the motor pool so you can actually get to your vehicle. Especially if this is after duty hours.

Then the best part... assuming its not covered in mud you will of course have to take it to the wash rack so your not slinging mud clots all the way from the motor pool gate to the line your vehicle is parked on.

Do you see where I am going with this? I personally have always been a fan of using my POV when the army allowed me to just because of how painful it can be to do something as simple as dispatch a hummvee.

Hope it all works out for you in the end and that your unit comes up with a better plan to move there equipment minus having a PFC drive it out. If anything I don't know why your NCOS are not volunteering to drive theres out there.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Sep 19 at 2018 7:27 PM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:27:52 -0400

Sounds like you have some lazy, ignorant NCOs. Tell them you're no longer going to use your POV to conduct Army business, in a respectful manner. If they have an issue about it, go up the chain, there's bound to be someone with common sense.

Response by COL Dana Hampton made Sep 19 at 2018 9:02 PM

COL Dana Hampton — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:02:42 -0400

Under no circumstances should a Soldier be required to use their POV to transport military equipment. Weapons and other sensitive items are specifically prohibited from being transported in a POV. Your unit should dispatch military vehicles for transportation of military equipment in support of unit training. There is a right right way to do things. Always do the next right thing.

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Sep 19 at 2018 9:24 PM

SPC Henry Francis — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:24:51 -0400

If you think you might need it, one non-confrontational way to stop this is to have your spouse drop you off and pick you up when you are done. They’ll make arrangements for transportation for you and the stuff When you don’t have your POV.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 10:00 PM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:00:59 -0400

Absolutely not.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Sep 19 at 2018 11:11 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 23:11:55 -0400

Short answer.... NO!

Some equipment (ie: small arms, ammo, classified materials, etc) are NOT to be transported by POV except in very limited circumstances. DoD regulations are very specific on those kinds of things. Your command is taking advantage of you and needs to be stopped immediately. Depending on the circumstances, criminal charges could be warranted. YOU could be charged if something gets damaged or lost during transit.

Response by CPT Ray Gilmore made Sep 19 at 2018 11:12 PM

CPT Ray Gilmore — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 23:12:01 -0400

No.

They need to stop being lazy, and get there in their assigned vehicles or go to the S4 and have them secure a TMP.....

This is wrong, and your command could get crushed depending upon the command climate above them...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2018 2:38 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 02:38:33 -0400

Fuck no

Response by SGT Matthew Sesar made Sep 20 at 2018 7:03 AM

SGT Matthew Sesar — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 07:03:53 -0400

Response by SPC James Dixon made Sep 20 at 2018 1:42 PM

SPC James Dixon — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:42:59 -0400

No, they can not make you use your POV for transporting military equipment or personnel. Transporting military equipment and personnel is done at the military's expensive using government supply vehicles.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Sep 20 at 2018 1:44 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:44:30 -0400

"Privately owned vehicle" is called that for a reason. Unless the Army wants to start paying for gas and maintenance costs, they should step off. Sounds like your NCO needs some wood line counseling.

Response by COL John McClellan made Sep 20 at 2018 6:56 PM

COL John McClellan — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 18:56:10 -0400

That's a big NOGO!

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Sep 20 at 2018 7:21 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:21:36 -0400

Just my experience; while I was assigned to Fort Gordon in the late 80s as a Chaplain’s Assistant, our section as a whole had several military vehicles assigned, which were mostly used by the Chaplains, but not at each Chapel on base. Before the Chapels were ever opened for business, either during the week or on Sunday, supplies and refreshments were needed to be picked up and taken to the Chapel, on your way there. Because of time constraints and convenience, the CA’s just used their own POVs for pick ups and deliveries. None of us, to my knowledge, ever were reimbursed for gas. And when cell phones came into use, the same thing happened. At the time, we were informed, that if the Officers can your their own equipment, so can the Enlisted. Since you are married, with family, document your mileage and gas carefully. You can write this stuff off, on your taxes at the end of the year as a "work" deduction. The tax man will take the higher of two, as your deduction. Good luck.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2018 10:48 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:48:38 -0400

Absolutely not. Sensitive equipment in particular is not authorized to be transported in a POV, and there are many areas POVs are not authorized anyway. There are GSAs that can be signed out, TMPs (shop trucks basically), or other equipment like a 5ton that can all be used to transport their equipment. In the GSA's log book there's always a card to pay for fuel, and with the TMPs and tactical vehicles you fuel those at a fuel point.

You have every right to deny use of your POV for duty related tasks. Request a GSA or one of the other above mentioned alternate options.

Response by Cpl Douglas Loven made Sep 22 at 2018 5:39 AM

Cpl Douglas Loven — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 05:39:46 -0400

Hell no.

Response by SSG Thomas Werstlein made Sep 27 at 2018 12:47 PM

SSG Thomas Werstlein — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:47:58 -0400

You have the right to not use your POV for missions. You can tactfully tell them no. If they are butthurt and make things painful for you, your commander and 1SG have open door policies you can utilize. If you are hesitant about repercussions you can utilize the IG (just be prepared to justify why you have not gone through your unit chain of command).

Having your spouse drop you off is a very passive aggressive route to take and I'm sure most junior enlisted married service members have used this or have been tempted to do this but don't. This would be like using a bandaid to stop a sucking chest wound. We all have to stand up for ourselves at some point. This may be your opportunity to set a standard with your NCO's.

Response by SSG Corey D made Sep 30 at 2018 10:51 AM

SSG Corey D — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:51:07 -0400

I can only think of one time that I even got asked and it was in the guard and we got activated for a hurricane, I was asked if I didn’t mind stopping along the way and picking up some mres, it wasn’t out of the way, I had the room in my truck, and it let me show up later because of logistics but it worked for everyone involved.

Response by 1SG Robert Shaver made Oct 2 at 2018 5:56 PM

1SG Robert Shaver — Tue, 02 Oct 2018 17:56:11 -0400

I once had an NCO/Officer who LET soldiers use their POV's transport equipment to local training sites. They did NOT ask them too but it was quicker and easier. Getting a truck dispatched from the motor pool was slow and inconvenient. I think most who served active duty for many years have carried military equipment in their POV at one or another. Well this day the MP's with CID had a check point setup to check POV's. It was a bad day for all. Of course the CID knew this young solider was not stealing the equipment. But it is against Army regulation for anyone to transport military equipment not issued to them in their POV. Let your NCO know this.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2018 1:14 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:14:40 -0400

They should not be telling you to do this. They need to get their butts in gear and check out a TMP vehicle for this, pure laziness, I suspect, is the culprit. It is also unethical to order a subordinate to use their private vehicle for this, and depending on the nature of the equipment it may also be illegal.

Response by MSgt Jerry Waters made Oct 7 at 2018 9:44 PM

MSgt Jerry Waters — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 21:44:36 -0400

No, but Hell no

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Oct 15 at 2018 7:50 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:50:42 -0400

The Key here is you are subject to UCMJ for transporting Military items In your POV, If anything comes up missing or damaged you can be held accountable. Now as usual on RP you say your NCO's what NCO's Not names but position. If they ask you again tell them you need to talk to the Next person in your COC=Chain of Command Like PLT. SGT., PLT. LDR., 1 SGT. You need to Protect your self sounds like your NCO's don't understand the issues of safety an security involved in such actions. JMT

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Oct 15 at 2018 8:01 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:01:02 -0400

NO DO NOT DO THIS. You say NCO's if they ask you tell them respectfully you need to get a verbal approval from some one Higher in the chain of command. Because of Safety and Security issues. Transporting Military equipment in a POV is punishable under UCMJ. That was the policy all the years I was in. They Need to Plan ahead and provide Military Transportation to and from training areas.JMT

Response by SGT Jon Creager made Oct 21 at 2018 8:10 PM

SGT Jon Creager — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:10:40 -0400

Response by MSG David King made Nov 3 at 2018 4:44 PM

MSG David King — Sat, 03 Nov 2018 16:44:54 -0400

No, they cannot "make you." I found the use of POV liberating since I didn't have to "get on the bus Gus."

Response by SFC James Beasley made Nov 4 at 2018 10:21 AM

SFC James Beasley — Sun, 04 Nov 2018 10:21:06 -0500

I've done it myself while training Soldiers on how to search POV's for IED's, but I volunteered to do it to make the training more realistic. The unit as a whole should not force you to use your personal vehicle.

Response by SGM Debra Bradshaw made Nov 6 at 2018 9:21 PM

SGM Debra Bradshaw — Tue, 06 Nov 2018 21:21:33 -0500

Two things. You can file a travel claim for mileage because this was for work. And, ask for a memorandum of record granting you permission to transport military equipment in a POV.

Response by SSG Ricky Johnson made Nov 10 at 2018 9:25 AM

SSG Ricky Johnson — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 09:25:34 -0500

AR 58-1 and DoD 4500.36-R, allows use of a POV in lieu of a Government vehicle, but use must be reimbursed and usage tracked. Tracking usage is absolutely necessary (and required by law) because if a POV reimbursement is happening on a frequent recurring basis, then the Commander should be submitting a TDA change to get the appropriate vehicle added to the TDA. Reimbursement can be either the Impress Fund or DTS. Now keep in mind, I retired as a DA Civ 11 years go, but this policy hadn’t changed in the 35 years previously.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2018 9:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 09:36:03 -0500

I'm sure you have a motor pool full of vehicles. If not then your unit has access to TMP vehicles. That's what they're for. There's some paperwork involved in dispatching those vehicles, seems like your NCOs don't like going through the red tape, but really they should. They shouldn't force you to use your POV to move Army equipment.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2020 8:42 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:42:17 -0500

Can you refuse the transport of military personel in your pov? And if so what regulation covers that?