Can your commander make you report personal firearms stored off post?

2019-05-12T17:49:34-04:00

Today, my CoC asked all soldiers in the company for a list of their personally owned firearms: Type of gun, calibers, brand, and storage address for all personally owned firearms regardless of if they’re stored on-base or even registered on-base. Is this lawful?

Update: Yes and no.
1. Any weapons brought or stored on-base must be registered with installation and maybe command as well.
2. If SM lives in barracks / on-post quarters, they can store weapons off-base (If kept at another SMs house, commander can make SM register on base. If kept at a family member's house, no registration is required).
2a. Commander may limit amount of weapons stored in arms room (if there's not enough room, you may have to put other weapons off-installation).
3. If SM lives in on-post quarters and weapons are stored there, must be registered.
4. If you live off-post, no weapons HAVE to be registered with anyone.

References:
1. https://safety.army.mil/Portals/0/Documents/OFF-DUTY/PRIVATELYOWNEDWEAPONS/Standard/ALARACT_063_2013.pdf
2. AR 190-11
3. <Installation> Regulation 190-11
4. Command Policy Letters

*Side Note* Doing this has "put the nail in the coffin" for me to not become a team leader due to it encouraging soldiers to question what the chain of command was told. While it's sad for me to hear, my PSG was supportive enough to convince my CoC to let me transfer to Traffic, MPI, or another unit. NCO Support Channel was told to counsel me and threatened NJP for Art 92 (Failure to obey a lawful order); however, there was no lawful order, so there was no counseling or NJP. Thank you for everyone who helped me here and special thanks to anyone from my NCO Support Channel or Chain of Command who supported me. I hope this helps some people in the future.

ALARACT_063_2013.pdf

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Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 6:21 PM

2019-05-12T18:21:30-04:00

No.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 6:24 PM

2019-05-12T18:24:30-04:00

If your chain of command asked for such specific information, it's because someone from a higher echelon wants it. No commander wakes up and decides they want to add something else to track to their list of worries. This means it probably came from a Brigade or higher level and these things are typically staffed and verified by legal before being sent out, so it's a good bet it's legal to ask.
You weren't being given a lawful order to furnish the information and as long as you don't lie you don't have to let them know. Now if you choose to tell your chain of command that you will not furnish this information, how that plays out is completely separate.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made May 12 at 2019 6:31 PM

2019-05-12T18:31:48-04:00

No, but (always a but) you need to inquire further into the issue; I’m sure this came to happen because someone did something stupid.

If the weapon is off post and you have no intention to bring it on post then no. If you intent to bring it on post in the future I’m sure there is a mandatory weapons registration policy in place. Your unit leadership only has to request it from the Provost Marshal thru official channels.

Nevertheless, consider all potential solutions as a diplomat would do and how it could affect you. You don’t want that to bite you in your 3rh point of contact!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 7:51 PM

2019-05-12T19:51:30-04:00

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20100528/sen-inhofe-introduces-legislation-to-p

sen-inhofe-introduces-legislation-to-p

Response by SPC Gary Welch made May 12 at 2019 10:12 PM

2019-05-12T22:12:52-04:00

Well I have experienced this first hand I was being investigated for stealing military equipment if you have your pows on post it is legal and you have no choice but to surrender the info off post is tricky if you as a member of the military are present at your house it becomes government property you don't have to provide the info but if you are present at your home and something comes up you will be in violation of this lawful order

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 11:30 PM

2019-05-12T23:30:27-04:00

Update, leaving this here for anyone who ever needs this answered again: https://safety.army.mil/Portals/0/Documents/OFF-DUTY/PRIVATELYOWNEDWEAPONS/Standard/ALARACT_063_2013.pdf

“THIS STATUTE PROHIBITS THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE FROM ISSUING
ANY REQUIREMENT, OR COLLECTING OR RECORDING ANY INFORMATION
RELATING TO THE OTHERWISE LAWFUL ACQUISITION, POSSESSION,
OWNERSHIP, CARRYING, OR OTHER USE OF A PRIVATELY OWNED FIREARM,
AMMUNITION OR ANOTHER WEAPON BY A MEMBER OF THE ARMED FORCES NOT
KEPT ON A MILITARY INSTALLATION.”

ALARACT_063_2013.pdf

Response by SSG Phil Miller made May 13 at 2019 12:03 AM

2019-05-13T00:03:55-04:00

Did your commander not swear to defend the constitution? I find it odd that a commander would not recognize that soldiers have a right to the second amendment also.
I would not disclose the information.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2019 8:18 AM

2019-05-13T08:18:42-04:00

Of course this is happening in an MP unit. Good senior leaders are becoming more and more difficult to find in the MP Corps. It’s really sad honestly. I’ve seen overbearing authority like this so much in the last few years.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made May 15 at 2019 9:33 AM

2019-05-15T09:33:04-04:00

Complicated YES and NO answer. The bottom line - It depends. See the message at the following link: https://safety.army.mil/Portals/0/Documents/OFF-DUTY/PRIVATELYOWNEDWEAPONS/Standard/ALARACT_063_2013.pdf

ALARACT_063_2013.pdf

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made May 16 at 2019 10:28 AM

2019-05-16T10:28:15-04:00

I asked a couple folks about this, Here at FLW you would be required to report and register all guns kept on post regardless of if they were stored in your on post family quarters or at the barracks in the arms room. Soldiers can not keep guns in the barracks rooms or the newer unaccompanied Soldiers housing .

Soldiers here currently do not have to report or register guns stored off post that will not be brought on post. Any weapon that will be brought on post for hunting or use at the sportsman's center has to be registered on post and there is no concealed carry authorized.

As for the lawfulness of the request I suggest you see JAG or the IG for that answer. My guess is that it is not unlawful and is a knee jerk reaction to something bad having happened locally and someone in the CoC wanting to show that they have taken some form of action to try and prevent repeat performances.

In my opinion as I am not a fan of gun registration and only registered my guns on post to set a good example and be in compliance with policy, the only benefit for you providing that info is that you will have a record of your guns if they are ever stolen for insurance use and to get them back from the Police if they are later recovered.