"Canadian military explored plan to fully integrate forces with U.S."

RallyPoint Shared Content — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:25:58 -0400

From: CBC

CBC News has learned that a Canadian military effort to formally create integrated forces with the United States for expeditionary operations included an even more ambitious option — a plan to fully integrate military forces, explored during a meeting with the top generals from the two countries.

The Canadian military efforts were ultimately shut down and refocused on improving interoperability between the forces.

Information provided by the Department of National Defence shows the Canada-U.S. Integrated Forces program was led at the highest levels, with then Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Tom Lawson and the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey (now retired), meeting on "several occasions" to hash out a plan that included an option for "fully integrated forces."

On Monday, CBC News reported that the Canadian military had been working on a plan to create a binational integrated military force with the U.S., under which air, sea, land and special operations forces would be jointly deployed under unified command outside Canada.

That force was described by a military source as a deliberate arrangement, scaled according to the nature of the conflict it expected to face, with formally established rules for command and control and logistics.

Discussion of the plans for an integrated unit was contained in an October 2013 briefing note prepared by the military's Strategic Joint Staff and obtained through access to information.

Government not part of discussions

Daniel Proussalidis, a spokesman from the defence minister's office, said in an email to CBC News Monday the document was not presented to the defence minister and the government has not considered its contents.

"The government has neither expressed interest in the concept of Canada-U.S. force integration nor directed exploration of it," Proussalidis told CBC News.

A Conservative spokesman also said the party had no desire to establish a "standing integrated force."

But the new information from the Defence Department shows the planning was deliberate and sustained, and it happened at the highest levels of both forces.

Those two comments raise the possibility the plan was being pursued without the specific direction or approval of the Conservative government.

The Defence Department says three different concepts were reviewed:

Enhancing military interoperability and co-operation.
Creating an integrated force of specially designated national units to deploy abroad.
"Fully integrated forces."
A fully integrated force could be politically dangerous in Canada, where there are perennial concerns about the quality of a bilateral relationship described by some as akin to sharing a bed with an elephant.

Concerns over Canadian control

There would also be deep concerns about maintaining national control over the Canadian Forces, particularly as it relates to questions about the use of force and varying interpretations of international law.

In the end, the Defence Department says, "Gen. Lawson indicated that Canada was not prepared to field fully integrated land forces at this time."

"The two armies do not intend to field formally integrated forces at this time," wrote DND spokesman Dominique Tessier in an email.

"Instead, they are developing the capability to operate together on any mission authorized by the government of Canada. Canada-U.S. co-operation is excellent; we are trying to make it better."

Canada and the United States have long maintained fully integrated air forces in the form of the North American Aerospace Defence command, a binational unit that protects the air approaches to the continent.

Norad commanders are able to deploy and control forces of each other's militaries in pursuit of the goal of common defence.

Norad has also assumed increasing responsibility to provide warning and target information for naval forces that protect the maritime approaches to North America.

But those efforts are focused on defence; the integrated forces planning was for expeditionary forces to be deployed on operations overseas.

The Defence Department says the planning began as an attempt to maintain the level of interoperability with U.S. forces achieved during the long war in Afghanistan.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-military-integration-canada-us-1.3248594

Canadian military explored plan to fully integrate forces with U.S.

A Canadian military effort to formally create integrated forces with the United States for expeditionary operations included an even more ambitious option, considered when top generals from the two countries met to discuss a plan to fully integrate military forces.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 1:29 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:29:35 -0400

Ok, this one is new and I will have to watch this.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Oct 1 at 2015 1:40 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:40:47 -0400

Interpreting post, since we are integrated with the Canadian military om NORAD and NATO it seems like a reasonable consideration.
It certainly makes sense for us to be more integrated with Canada who we share a significant history with certainly since WWI.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Oct 1 at 2015 2:13 PM

COL Ted Mc — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:13:04 -0400

It's interesting that two things weren't mentioned: [1] whose idea was it and [2] why the commanders would always be Americans.

Admittedly it would have been one way to ensure that the RCAF (The "USAF [Canada]" as it would have been known) bought F-35s - especially after the Canadian Prime Minister has deliberately avoided claiming that the F-35 would be good for Canada's military (and is basing his support for the purchase on the F-35 being good for Canada's economy).

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 1 at 2015 5:24 PM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 17:24:08 -0400

I wouldn't have a problem with this so long as Americans were the top Commanders (since we bring a LOT more materiel to the table).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2018 6:25 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 18:25:34 -0400

This story is 2 years old. I recently spent almost two months active duty as an Army Reserve Observer controller/trainer working with Canadian Forces at Canadian Forces Base Wainwright. This topic never came up. We do have integrated training with them under their exercise called Maple resolve 2018 and we will have Maple Resolve 2019 next year. We had about 4,000 Canadians and 1,200 Americans in a three-week long combined arms exercise. 4th Brigade 25th ID as well as 600 United States Army Reserve participated in this exercise. It was a force-on-force exercise were the Americans and the Canadiens played the opposing forces as well as the blue forces. I personally not heard any discussion of a new Devil's Brigade being formed. We may end up training with the British at British Army Training unit Suffield( a huge base 2 hours south of CFB Wainright where the British keep a Tank Battalion that goes through year around training) in the distant future. The details are still not agreed to yet with the British Army. In the meantime, we will continue yearly training at Canadian Forces base Wainwright.

https://youtu.be/D2J_-ocJjIs

Ex MAPLE RESOLVE 16: Photo Montage / Montage photographique

May 18 to June 7, 2016 Wainwright, Alberta, Canada Canadian Army soldiers from 1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group, with support from the Royal Canadian Air ...

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Jul 29 at 2018 6:48 PM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 18:48:40 -0400

This would be great news...and with such a small force, it would be good. If I recall, Canada;s forces was aprox 80K? I would love to be wrong with the number much higher. The USMC is apx 290K Just for a size comparison.