Changes for NCOs: New requirements and promotion points. Have You Heard?

2015-08-17T22:43:10-04:00

Starting Jan. 1, soldiers must meet new education requirements to get promoted to sergeant and staff sergeant.

These troops will also have to contend with a revised promotion point chart — one that favors soldiers with more education and better PT, marksmanship and foreign language skills.

Under the revised chart “combat experience” will no longer earn you extra points.

The changes are the first phase in a three-phase strategy to expand STEP among the NCO ranks. STEP stands for “select, train, educate and promote.”

Later in 2016, education requirements will also become mandatory to make sergeant first class. STEP extends to master sergeant promotions in 2017.

“This is not just a specialist to sergeant requirement,” said Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey. “Every NCO will have to follow STEP, so that’s a major change.”

Check out this article from Army Times:

Changes for NCOs: New requirements and promotion points

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/08/17/changes-ncos-new-requirements-and-promotion-points/31410931/

Changes for NCOs: New requirements and promotion points

Starting Jan. 1, soldiers must meet new education requirements to get promoted to sergeant and staff sergeant.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-08-17T22:49:06-04:00

Yes, and I hope I get selected the next board as I'll have to wait two additional years for promotion. My MOS is two phases, and I'd be lucky to get them done in two years.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 1:58 AM

2015-08-18T01:58:31-04:00

I completely agree with this. I know I am an officer but I was an NCO for a while. I have seen a drop in the quality of NCOs. I even shared a portion of this on FB.

“Being qualified at your skill level and military occupational specialty requires a complement of all three leadership development domains – institutional, operational and self-development,” Dailey said. “In the past we have allowed people to attain the rank, in some cases two ranks, above their institutional experience. That is not the case now.” SMA Dailey.

That is truth. So many just think because you can shoot a gun that you don't have to do any professional development. I hate to tell them but when you are a PSG shooting a guy is one of the last of your priorities. At that level you can really do some damage to your own soldiers if you don't know what you are doing. If you have ever seen a soldier that thinks all he has to do is fight write a NCO without help he will be damaging that younger NCOs career. It is a lack of institutional knowledge. The Army is an institution where we have to professional develop and improve. We just can't sit around and wait to deploy again.

Response by SSG Jamil Spruill made Aug 18 at 2015 3:06 AM

2015-08-18T03:06:29-04:00

I think the new system will stop crappy soldiers from being promoted to higher ranks and being placed in charge of soldiers and junior leaders. I do hope that those currently promoted and trying hard to get points for promotions like my self don't get screwed out of finally making rank.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Aug 18 at 2015 6:08 AM

2015-08-18T06:08:12-04:00

Great move!

Response by CPL Stephen Kirt made Aug 18 at 2015 8:04 AM

2015-08-18T08:04:45-04:00

It seems to me from what I've seen in this, that having a degree and being better at PT will get you promoted faster than having experience. It's a bit frustrating since between WLC and deployment points I will be losing approximately 90 points.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Aug 18 at 2015 8:27 AM

2015-08-18T08:27:32-04:00

I have mixed feelings. I'm glad they aren't awarding points for the NCOES anymore because it puts me at a disadvantage since my command hasn't allowed me to attend. I serve in a Joint Command, and I don't think they realize the importance of this school for an NCOs career. For this reason, I think making it a requirement will really put some amazing NCOs at a disadvantage. There are also those who are constantly deployed and TDY who are limited on time to attend. I agree with having it as a requirement, but the Army needs to put pressure on the units to ENSURE their NCOs get the opportunity to attend. Overall it would increase by promotion point standings by roughly 85 points, but if my command continues to postpone my ALC attendance I will be unable to get promoted despite having a high score. My command has already prevented me from attending the promotion for nearly two years, I can imagine them holding off on this school for the same nonsensical reasons.

Response by SGT Jesse Walton made Aug 18 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-08-18T09:27:51-04:00

What is the purpose of the system, the basis of being of soldiers is learning to survive in a combat situation, and taking that experience and passing it down to future soldiers.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:28 AM

2015-08-18T09:28:32-04:00

SGT Christopher Churilla, I see no issues with this. This is how it was prior to the changes made during OIF/OEF. Why punish Soldiers who don’t have the opportunity to deploy based off of their MOS and duty station. You shouldn’t devalue a Soldiers worth based off of whether or not they deployed before. Another question to consider is what is considered “combat experience”? What if you deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but never left the FOB, or better yet, what is you deployed to Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar or Turkey? Those Soldiers received combat SSI’s, does that count. The only way to keep it fair is to take the promotions points away that are tied to deployments.

Response by SSG Jamil Spruill made Aug 18 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-08-18T09:29:17-04:00

It's people who will never deploy who will be made leaders over multiple deployment soldiers. I thought the main reason behind military was development and training to defend the country in times of need. I also posted this same link

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:41 AM

2015-08-18T09:41:53-04:00

Disgusting. A military that doesn't value combat experience. Guess all the deployment dodgers finally got a say.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:42 AM

2015-08-18T09:42:12-04:00

It's time to up your PT and get that schooling done!!

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Aug 18 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-08-18T09:43:23-04:00

I think that it is wrong, to take away all of the credit for the things that the people that have time with boots on the ground away totally. Reduce the points, make it a fair fight. Just like with Veterans preference points. I just don't think because someone has 500 college credits and someone else might have 250 that was in combat, should have the better chance at getting promoted before them. If they are a better leader then fine, but just because someone is butt hurt that Someone else has 5 or even more deployments that they should LOOSE all credit. You have got people who have DODGED deployments and went to school and they are Crap bags that will now be promoted over good people just because they are now on the down side for being deployed! COLLEGE ISN'T EVERYTHING! just because someone took bowling or archery and gets the credit hrs doesn't mean they are BETTER! Doesn't mean just because someone knows a BOOK that they are smarter or better as a leader. You have things in deployed personnel that a BOOK or COMPUTER can't teach!

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 18 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-08-18T09:44:18-04:00

If I were on a promotion board and was attempting to decide who would be the best person for the job, first and foremost would be successful performance in the field. Combat experience would get the highest credit, since that is what we are preparing for at some point. If I had two equally qualified individuals, the higher level of education would come into play. So tell me how a O-1 fresh from the academy or college and a SNCO with combat experience and a college degree can be compared?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:45 AM

2015-08-18T09:45:06-04:00

How exactly do you quantify combat performance? And how would you rate someone who performed poorly over someone who did exemplary?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-08-18T09:54:12-04:00

Kind of makes me feel like the mid to late 90s are returning again.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:55 AM

2015-08-18T09:55:16-04:00

As good as civilian education is, and I am for it.. but in many enlisted jobs it will be only a promotion booster - which mean that people will flock to easy education that will get them most bang for the buck (or time). This waters the idea of actual education down.

And no points for combat? Where are this Army going? I need to get out fast!

Response by SSG Daniel Deiler made Aug 18 at 2015 10:08 AM

2015-08-18T10:08:11-04:00

NCOES is a requirement so points shouldn't be awarded in the first place. Combat experience opportunities are now much harder to acquire due to the cutback of deployments. Why should a Soldier be penalized or held back from being promoted by being assigned to a unit that hasn't deployed?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 10:12 AM

2015-08-18T10:12:26-04:00

If your an admin clerk then not a big deal; your combat experience wouldn't relate to your job. It does show resiliency in some aspects. If you earned a Silver Star then that would have been reflected on your awards portion. As a grunt I believe that combat experience is vital to you showing your basic warrior tasks. That being said I'm torn because it shouldn't be the main thing to focus on. Combat time only shows months deployed and not actual "combat". So these points should have been called deployment points and therefore sound stupid.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-08-18T10:16:32-04:00

They werent actually combat promotion points. They were more along the lines of deployment points. When you say deployment points instead of combat, then you start to hear how ridiculous it is. I get the same amount as some person who was living it up in BAF. Don't get me wrong I maxed out in these points for SSG. Looking back though it is an unfair point system. You got bronze stars, ARCOMs and AAMs for deployment.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-08-18T10:35:39-04:00

http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/05/army-determined-to-eliminate-all-operational-memory-of-war-on-terror/

It seems like the Duffel Blog gets it right again.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Aug 18 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-08-18T10:59:10-04:00

What about those Soldiers who are injured and on a permanent profile? You know, the ones that can only do 1 event or less? The ones that can't because of something that happened during one of those "don't count" deployments, what about those people? I would like to see Big Army make a change to make it "more fair" to those folks. This change will negatively affect those in a combat MOS due to the time they spend in the field training. Look where our SMA comes from and you shouldn't be that surprised.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 11:41 AM

2015-08-18T11:41:50-04:00

I think we should move back to the spec5-7 system. Good lab techs and other technical workers that usually pulled rear D were punished for not deploying when their job didn't really demand it. The move to remove WLC is kind of agreeable. In becoming a SGT, the appropriate SSD and NCOES is vare bare minimum. People shouldn't get points for doing the bare minimum. Now you have to make it really count by getting honor grad, etc or it doesn't count at all.

Response by SSG Marshall Gaines made Aug 18 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-08-18T11:59:02-04:00

Looks like with some of things they are doing with the system, they are going back to the way it was prior to all of the current wars that have been going on. I think that it's a good idea and it forces soldiers to now get so sort of degree and better themselves. What's going to hurt some is if they have the points to get promoted and they have been to the Warrior Leaders Course, they will be passed over until they can attend the course. Question is are they going to set a time limit on this.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-08-18T12:06:59-04:00

I like the new changes. I don't think meeting the requirements to be promotable to the next rank should give one points for it. WLC, ALC, and SLC should be just prerequisites before making the next rank. It should have always been that way. Combat experience should have no play in becoming an NCO. That's the job of a soldier to participate in combat if need be. I am losing promotion points due to the system but I think it's the right way to do it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 12:07 PM

2015-08-18T12:07:39-04:00

I was made an NCO due to a vacancy that needed to be filled when I was in Vietnam. In today's Army, would that have been taken away after I got back due to passing / failing some tests?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 12:35 PM

2015-08-18T12:35:05-04:00

Let me ask a stupid question. If the draft was re enacted, would all of this college study to get point promotions go out the widow? I mean, would the draftees have to qualify in education before qualifying for NCO? That seems bass ackward to me. I don't think it's fair at all that a combat experienced NCO should be overlooked for a promotion because they haven't completed the college courses, because they were deployed to a combat, boots on the ground, deployment. Doesn't make sense to me. But, what do I know about today's modern Army? Nothing, but I can still see its bullshit for some and horseshit for others.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-08-18T13:19:00-04:00

I think stopping deployment points would hurt those who are deployed. My reason for saying this is because while you are deployed you really can't go to any schools other than civilian education. Each of my 4 deployments have been different some you have access line you are at home other times you have to use community computers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-08-18T13:58:02-04:00

Been a joe with no deployment experience, I think this is a mistake and would love to hear the thought process behind this new system. When we train and talk about how our job is different in theatre, we depend on the people that have deployed. Anyone can pay for training or education, but not deployment experience.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 2:21 PM

2015-08-18T14:21:32-04:00

I think this is a good think but with that said the combat experience should be recognized some how. Why not give them points in military education for the combat time this way they get the credit for them and we are not excluding the new Soldiers who may not get the option to get these points they will just have to earn them in a different way.

Response by SGT Christina Wilder made Aug 18 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-08-18T14:23:13-04:00

Combat experience has morphed from engaging the enemy to being at a FOB near an engagement. This is why there is so much disagreement of a portion of skiers being awarded a CIB. It is a shame it cannot be cut and dry. In order to be fair (tongue in cheek) that is why, or at least what I think. This is based upon how I follow the military and the decision making progress. If there is a better way just mention it here and someone can get it to the appropriate people.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-08-18T14:30:52-04:00

We are slowly migrating towards a new generation of Soldiers who will not likely see a combat deployment during their career (pending another major conflict). Sounds like higher ups are trying to level the playing field a bit.
I don't necessarily agree with it. I think we need to add SOME value to combat experience. It brings perspective and much needed application to training. If they want to reduce the points, fine. Don't eliminate them altogether. That sends the wrong message in my opinion.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-08-18T14:53:20-04:00

This assumes there is no education achieved while engaged with the enemy. Short sighted; as usual.

Response by SGT S Sharpless made Aug 18 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-08-18T16:17:40-04:00

I think it's a good change especially since the war has simmered down. Now those that won't have the opportunity to get combat experience can have a chance to get the points elsewhere. Plus I don't think that going to combat necessarily means that you're ready for leadership.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 18 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-08-18T16:21:45-04:00

While the lack of emphasis on actual combat experience (in the Army of all places) breaks my heart, the changes to NCOES make me a VERY happy panda..

Response by SGT S Sharpless made Aug 18 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-08-18T16:40:06-04:00

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-08-18T17:48:50-04:00

Well there is more to this news than just eliminating points from combat experience and NCOES. To address those two particular variables you selected (Combat Experience & NCOES) and not quibble and cavil about it, I would start by saying: I totally agree with the direction SMA Dan Dailey is stirring us (to include the changes to the NCOERs but that's reserved for another topic).

I deduce that the elimination of points from those two variables you selected for this discussion simply says "just because you've been deployed doesn't make you're a better leader or more qualified than your peers". Furthermore, it says "Oh you completed some NCOES? Good for you. Nothing special about it; as everyone should be on top of their NCOES anyways". What is happening appertains the evolution of our complex battle space. We may not always agree on changes but this particular change I think is worth challenging the status quo and how we've conducted business as usual (especially during the peek of OIF and OEF). These new measures are excellent in determining true quality and value.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-08-18T17:54:20-04:00

I think there should be a bigger emphasis on civilian education.

Response by SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira made Aug 18 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-08-18T19:19:00-04:00

It's foolishness. While I agree that an educated Army is a better one no amount of schooling or training can substitute for real world experience. Any egg head can apply their craft in pristine conditions but lives are saved and wars won by men and women capable of doing business with a fraction of the required resources in the most austere conditions.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-08-18T19:51:41-04:00

I think it evens the playing field because not everyone is in a position to deploy even when they want to. Focusing on civilian education, PME, weapons, awards, APFT, and correspondent courses is the way ahead and is fair for all. No more excuses!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-08-18T20:17:17-04:00

Have we forgotten a time before they awarded promotion points for deploying?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:25 PM

2015-08-18T21:25:24-04:00

Damned if you comment, damned if you don't.
Feeds into the concept of kinder and gentler Army I suppose. While I believe education is a pillar of good leadership, experience, combat or otherwise is the foundation. We train for war, why not reward those have experienced it, from POGs to Grunts. The experience gained down range cannot be 100% replicated in education or training. Failing to include combat tours in promotion consideration would destroying the warrior foundation we strive so diligently to build.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-08-18T21:50:20-04:00

I'm a little torn here. For one I don't agree with combat tours not counting for points for those that have deployed multiple times. On the other hand I don't think that NCOES should count for points for the issue that depending on your MOS you might be waiting years for ALC to get you enough points to get to SSG.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 10:11 PM

2015-08-18T22:11:10-04:00

Chances are this will change again when the next conflict kicks off...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-08-18T23:21:52-04:00

Maybe it's something having to do with this new Garrison Army we've been transitioning to for the past couple of years. I don't agree with it but hell I'm only an E-5

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-08-18T23:32:23-04:00

I don't believe that anyone should have ever gotten points for just being deployed. That sends a bad message, people who worked in an office on a huge fob for 8 hrs a day and then hit the gym and played their xbox get points for that? We all know more than 1 shitbag that's been deployed a few times. No, that was a bad call. NCOES....again, not jecessary to give points for them. You have to graduate course x to be promoted to rank z, that is the same accross the board...so why give points which are arbitrary when anyone going for that promotion has those same points...it's a wash and being tracked for nothing. Personally though, I don't believe that college or other outside education should count towards anything for enlisted personnel. As an enlisted man your military education is all that should be looked at...and even then only of it directly relates to your MOS. PT and marksmanship I don't necessarily agree with either....but this is a huge organization and there are only so many things we can standardize and then measure...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 7:58 AM

2015-08-19T07:58:11-04:00

They are changing it because we are supposed to "be at peace" now and many Soldiers would not have a chance to earn points for combat. I am all for the points going toward things Soldiers can control such as education and APFT. Let the motivated Soldiers earn as many points as they can.

Response by Jordan Gaudard made Aug 19 at 2015 12:51 PM

2015-08-19T12:51:24-04:00

A deployment is important, but not for all MOS in my opinion. Take 42A for example, you think it is really necessary for them to have multiple deployments? Does that make them a better S1 Clerk, or NCO in general? They already will get an end of tour award for the deployment, if not a Combat Action badge. Just my two cents

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-08-19T12:54:32-04:00

Alas, the Army does not recognize "Redneck" as a foreign language. :(

Response by SFC Jon Vandeyacht made Aug 19 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-08-19T18:30:11-04:00

Im all for it. If you cant show initiative to improve beyond just doing the minimum, then you dont need to be promoted either.
Now before anyone blasts me, i earned 1.1. On my language qualification for Russian. Personally completed more college credits during a deployment than all other Soldiers in the battalion combined over a 15 month deployment all the while a battalion night battle nco. Busted my rear but stayed away from mwr and xbox/Playstation. Dedicated 3 off duty hours per day 4 days a week to studdies even if that meant only 3 hours of sleep.
I constantly did dime drills with my assigned weapon as well as making my soldiers do it too.
Always looking at maps and pace counting even if a gps device was in possession.
These are the things you need to do to be good. They should have implemented these rules years ago.
There are too many opportunities for Soldiers to succeed now days, they choose to play games and drink. Those ones will never be great leaders. Im sorry if that seems harsh but im not the only one that feels that way else these new rules would have never been presented much less adopted.
The best leaders i ever served with or under were always looking to improve themselves and their teams. We need that quality in these times where entitlement and minimulistic standards run amok

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-08-19T19:11:09-04:00

An Army that doesn't value combat experience? WTH...? Leaders with no combat experience leading Soldiers with it... It's a recipe for disaster. Lack of experienced seniority is a recipe for disaster. Just like the untimely downsizing, this almost feels like a coordinated effort to make our Army weaker.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 7:54 PM

2015-08-19T19:54:26-04:00

No, it shouldn't count because what does a deployment have to be with being a leader? Promotion should be based off stuff you can control and deployment is not one of them. I didn't deployment until I was a SSG, but it was not from lack of trying. However I know SPC with 3 deployments. So even though this new system does not affect me personally I'm glad to see the change.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-08-19T20:17:55-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-08-19T20:17:56-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-08-19T20:17:57-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-08-19T20:17:57-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 8:18 PM

2015-08-19T20:18:07-04:00

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 20 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-08-20T15:16:04-04:00

Having been an E-7, I can say something about this. The Army needs educated NCO, at the same time it should value its combat experienced soldiers. Priority for schools, IMHO should be given to those who have gone to the most tours, as they have had the least opportunities to move forward in their respective NCOES. That would seem to give an edge of fairness. Likewise, to sit back and say I did X amount of tours and haven't done anything else, is a cop out. You need to be balanced.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 3:41 PM

2015-08-20T15:41:41-04:00

I got this off the net. From reading it, it sounds like a good program, but it's designed for new NCO's and leaders according to what I read. I will not be convinced, in any form, shape, or fashion, that NCO combat experience trumps computer learning. How is the combat NCO supposed to be able to stay caught up with the NCO's who aren't deployed to advance in rank? College educations are great. I suppose the NCOES school is for bettering an NCO and giving them a chance to get a degree so when they are vets, they will be ready for employment. Am I wrong, or right?
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Response by SGT Francis Wright made Aug 20 at 2015 4:03 PM

2015-08-20T16:03:20-04:00

What about awards? Any awards earned still are worth points right?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-08-20T19:51:59-04:00

Here is what I am looking at. We are transitioning from an Army at War to an Army at Peace preparing for War. Yes we are still deploying troops to Afghanistan and Inherent Resolve, however in all reality, we are not that OIF Army. Therefore, the Army is actually putting more emphasis on what is going to be important to our troops when they LEAVE the Army. It makes sense. While I do not totally agree with them not giving ANY points to those that deploy, where is the line going to be drawn? Those troops that wen to Afghanistan? My roommate here at ARC was one of the first group of troops in Iraq for Inherent Resolve setting up communications in those COPs and FOBs. They were literally fighting ISIS so they should get credit too right? Ok so give them credit, what about those that are sitting on the border of Kuwait waiting to go North if the need be? They should get credit correct? What about the troops that go on rotations such as the Pacific Pathways? They deploy for months at a time so they should get credit as well?
It is not that I am trying to make a case for or against the points for Combat Experience. What I AM making a case for is making the Civilian Education MORE important, because THIS is what is going to count in the end. When the Soldier leaves the military service either in 4 years or 20 they NEED that education. They NEED that Bachelors degree. One of the classes that they were giving today was from a retired CSM and he told us of one of his fellow SGMs that was leaving the service, who was in charge of either a Brigade or Division, yet when he went to get a job with someone offering 6 figures a year they at the last minute pulled the offer. WHY? Because he only had an Associates Degree. It is CRITICAL that education be put on the pedestal that it deserves and if it means people losing out on promotion points because they are not taking advantage of what the military offers education wise then, they have to re-evaluate things. It is time to reshape our thinking folks, it is time to look at the new Army and the way forward.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-08-21T12:27:51-04:00

Personally I think combat should still provide points because that does show that you can't maintain calm and still provide leadership, I've always looked up and respected leaders who have deployed because they have that experience that has made them better at what they do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-08-27T12:53:29-04:00

I remember when I came in before the war started, you didn't get points for deployment experience. Very few were still on active duty who had combat deployments as well. But as times change, criteria changes. During heavy deployments your experience was rewarded. Now that we are supposed to be transitioning back to a Garrison Army, they are going back to the old ways.

This isn't saying that your experience is not valid or needed, just that the focus of the Army is changing once again.

Response by SGT Criss Dougherty made Aug 27 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-08-27T12:53:54-04:00

I firmly believe that promotion points should be awarded for deployments. It sets you apart from your peers who dropped packets to drill or recruiting to hide from combat. It doesn't affect me anymore as I'm retired, but it should be looked at.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 12:38 PM

2015-08-28T12:38:48-04:00

The army is starting the transition back to the professional force. They want to see people actually perusing as opposed to receive credit. For the most part deployments and NCOES aren't things we volunteer for, we just kind of get told to do it. College education and special schools show the desire for promotion. "It is what it is".

Response by SGT Clayton Ferguson made Sep 3 at 2015 12:41 AM

2015-09-03T00:41:23-04:00

This is stupid. This is nonsense. WE are a military at war. So tell me how speaking Spanish and going to college helps you lead a squad.

Response by SGT Michael Houts made Sep 3 at 2015 5:09 AM

2015-09-03T05:09:27-04:00

Boy do we have short term memory. Just a few years ago you didn't get points for deployments. You got them for the board, PT, Civ ED, Mil ED, and marksmanship. This was just in 2010, in 5 years you can't tell me people don't remember this? If you want to get promoted I guess you better start hitting the books.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-09-03T14:06:37-04:00

What I am curious to see is how they are going to align the cut off scores to reflect the drop in opportunities for promotion points. Example being, for promotion to SGT it is supposed to be focused more on weapons and PT. However, you can shoot 40/40 and score 300's all day but that alone won't put you anywhere near the current cut off scores for some MOS's. Do I agree with the new promotion system? No, but I am very curious to see how it all plays out as far as what needs to be done to attain cut-off scores for your MOS.

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 3 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-09-03T14:13:52-04:00

I guess I will be the one to stir the pot. Think back to your deployments, and remember how many less than stellar performers there were in your battalion. Do you think that they should have an advantage over someone who is a better Soldier without deployment experience? I am a few years removed from a promotion packet, but don't campaign medals and combat badges count for points?

Response by SGT(P) Crystal Marie France made Sep 5 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-09-05T19:45:49-04:00

This will make my life difficult but I guess it's time for us all to step it up!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 9:40 AM

2015-09-17T09:40:43-04:00

Idk if I am that stokked about it. I think combat experience really helps define leaders but I agree that civilian and military education is highly important at the same time. So giving no points for it isn't what I would have desired.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-09-29T13:18:20-04:00

Whats the difference? I'm awarded combat experience points for deploying yearly (literally) and you are rewarded points for being able to attend civilian education courses? I'm not awarded civilian ed. points for not being able to attend.. and you are not awarded combat experience points..for not being able to attend. The only difference I can see is that I'm (previously) limited to 30 points, despite the amount of deployments.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Jan 5 at 2016 9:38 PM

2016-01-05T21:38:18-05:00

I love these posts.
The NCO's Are becoming more educated then the officers and they have to pull back the reins a little.
Once upon a time Civilian education did count at all to be promoted.
If you are told there is no money for school is probably the money was spent elsewhere or the CSM does not know how to put the Budget together, yes I said CSM/first shirt.
Some of the argument's is the higher NCO's do not know their jobs as well as they should, but i will bet my bottom dollar they will not be taught budgets in ALC.
The military is very complex and it is up to the soldier to know how it works ask question from your own and other units. look up the regs!
Do not whine about being promoted unless you are ready to be.
I have spent a lot of time in every rank I held, not that I could not be promoted just wanted to make sure I was ready.
I see MSG and CSM promoted that do not have a clue how to be a senior NCO.
Most want the promotion for the money not the responsibility.
The troops that I had under me knew I had there back and would go to bat for them and I knew they had mine.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 12:58 AM

2016-01-26T00:58:31-05:00

It's more than deployment points, I have been deployed and that is not what stings the most. I have not been able to attend ALC....I have not dodged it nor I have not said "no" to it. The issue is that I have been DENIED going for four years now. Believe it, don't believe it, either way doesn't bother me because I have lived it and I know plenty of others that have too. Twice it got pulled from me because I was needed for other "more important" mission oriented tasks, once because it did not fit into our RED/YELOW/GREEN cycle training calendar....now I'm deployed so that is 9 months gone. I have 639 points and scratching at the door for making the cut off, but not any more because I need ALC. I joined in 2008 and since then have earned 2 ARCOMS, 6 AAMS, 2 AGCMs and 4 COAs (none from competitive boards). I received these awards because I busted my ass for my units. I did not have any college when I joined, but now have 110 hours. I also have 920 Army correspondence hours (needed 800 when I joined) 28 Residential course hours, 38/40 weapons qualification, a 280 APFT and a deployment. Tell me does it sound like I have sat on my ass for the past 7 yrs and 5 months. I have been a shift leader, section leader, squad leader and interim Platoon SGT. I have dedicated myself to the Army, when instead I should have whined and filed a complaint because my leadership wasn't allowing me the "education" that is required for career progression in the Army. Yes, I am pissed that the finish line was changed, especially when I am so close.... but what really irritates me is all the excuses and silly reasoning I see on here and other places.... If you want good leaders, then you have to select ones that have led...ALC makes a good leader my ass! So I will be passed up and Soldiers with less points will get picked up. These people will have less TIG/experience or have more TIG and maybe a piece of garbage Soldier....but thank goodness they have been to ALC! and yes deployments should equal points, because you can't get that experience in garrison. Think of a deployment as one long, drawn out residential course.