Civilian Credentials for Military Education, Training, Experience? Are enlisted personnel getting screwed?

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 13:52:50 -0500

I'm a Cold War vet, so I'm looking for more recent information. I also have the means and opportunity to hire veterans, but I am frustrated in that effort because most recently-released veterans lack the civilian credentials to do the jobs for which I'd like to hire them.

It seems to me that the officer corps takes pretty good care of itself. Their graduate schools, like the Army War College and many others, give civilian-accredited master's degrees. Officer health professions programs (like the PA programs) are civilian-accredited. Yet the excellent military medical programs are not accredited, so the medics, Corpsmen, and PJs can't get civilian work upon discharge without going back and repeating training that they have already had.

What's with that? Why aren't the 68W, 18D, IDC, and PJ schools accredited by CoAEMSP and their graduates eligible to sit for civilian paramedic licensure exams? Sure would love to be able to hire some!

Same questions for schools like MP, aviation MOS, computers and communications, etc.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 2:04 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:04:51 -0500

If that's the case with the enlisted medical MOSs, PO2 Skip Kirkwood - that they have to repeat training (in the civilian world) that they already had in the military - that's clearly not fair. That's something for folks to take up with the accreditation element (CoAEMSP?).

As for the War College .. that's a whole different level. I believe the Sergeant Major Academy has a Bachelor's Degree option/track as well. (Turns out some get master's degrees from the SMA: http://www.army.mil/article/21162/sergeant-major-academy-class-graduates)

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 25 at 2014 2:39 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:39:04 -0500

On the AF side, all of our technical and PME training is college accredited. Most comm folks are required to have a civilian certification. All Aircraft Mx folks are "highly encouraged" to get thier FAA certification. PJ and 4N's have the opportunity to be EMT certified. Contracting folks have federal warrants issued. This is all off the top of my head.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Dec 25 at 2014 11:05 PM

SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 23:05:35 -0500

The US Army has the Credentialing Opportunities On-Line website https://www.cool.army.mil/ which breaks each Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) down and shows what professional civilian credentials Army training and experience qualify you for. On the web site there are links to the Navy and Marine Corps COOL websites.

In law enforcement, many states now accept military police training as a means to not attend the police academy. In Texas, based on the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education (TCLEOSE) they generally require the following:

Qualifying Military Police must:

have successfully completed basic military police course for branch of military served;

have served as a military policeman in the United States Army, United States Marine Corps, United States Air Force or United States Navy;

have a military police military occupation specialty (MOS) or air force career (AFC) classification;
U.S. Army 95B or 31B
U.S. Marine Corps 5811
U.S. Air Force 3PO51, 3PO71, or 3PO91
U.S. Navy Master at Arms or NEC 9545 and successfully completed NAVEDTRA 14137

have 24 months active duty service in one of the above MOS classifications;

have a copy of all your military discharge(s) (DD-214); all must be under honorable or general-under-honorable conditions; and

have successfully completed the “Texas Supplemental Peace Officer” training course #1018.

I hope you find this information at least somewhat helpful.

https://www.cool.army.mil/

Response by SSG William Patton made Dec 27 at 2014 12:19 PM

SSG William Patton — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 12:19:39 -0500

I can only speak to my MOS 93E20, meteorological observer, for which I received 9 hours college credit that went toward my degree and handled most of my requirement for science in my degree field, where I had to have 12 credits. I ended up taking two additional science and was able to obtain a minor in applied science from LSU. Soldiers need to explore educational opportunities and see if the training they received in the military will convert to college credit. I know this does not answer the dilemma of using military training in lieu of college education for employment, but it would be a way for military personnel to get their schools in the military accredited.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2014 3:40 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:40:23 -0500

I strongly believe so many vets value their service that they list word-for-word something out of a military manual when you can edit a civilian spin on any military job description. You mentioned they are not qualified for any of your work, are you kidding? That is the worst thing you can say on a site like this, what you do not realize is they are probably over - qualified in many way, they just haven't listed the "bullet points' that @PO2 Skip Kirkwood wanted to see. I'll be brief with just a couple of examples:

As a Reconnaisance Marine, I can list on my resume; Led 6 man teams with 70 lb rucks, conducted deep reconnaissance missions scouting for mission-changing intel for the commander.

OR

Small group leader, conducts training while maintaining thousands of dollars worth of sensitive equipment, uncanny ability to prioritize a project for managers and senior leaders.

Two and the same...military vets are mostly 'over-qualified and overly-proud'.

Another example: A cannoneer can list that he is a valuable member of a 6 man gun team, provides fire missions for the success of Allied troops in a wartime situation

OR

Conducted small team training and maintained millions of dollars of equipment. Attention to detail is a key factor in the employment of my daily duties. I have high expectations of myself and completion of all projects assigned to me.

I DO NOT WRITE RESUMES, these are just a few examples. You absolutely need to have several versions of your resume and ask a professional or a Senior leader to peruse your resume, because they can help clean it up and 'polish' it for you. Preferably someone that is retired and out in the work force.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2014 3:41 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:41:32 -0500

In answer to your question about Army 68W, and fully MOS trained medic is considered an EMT-B, and I believe he has to peruse the EMT-P on his own time, but I think the military will pay for the schooling and certification.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2014 3:46 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:46:42 -0500

SSG Justin McCoy you are absolutely correct...some of the colleges that will transfer a lot of your military stuff over, include Thomas Edison, Excelsior, AMU, and University of Pheonix. There is a military friendly college post here on RP that can answer which college is best. If you provided a resource for these veterans, instead of saying you're not qualified, you would be carrying on the military mission, and providing direction to our newly discharged troops. I urge you to find thst post of military friendly colleges, cut and paste into a document, and hand it out to all veteran no-hires. I'd be stoked to hear if you did that.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2018 4:08 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 16:08:31 -0400

That’s the accepted double standard in our CAST system. Throughout military history, officers have most been the educated or wealthy and enlisted were the poor or uneducated. That’s part of the heritage. 10 years as a civilian medic/paramedic with FPC/CCP and no experience credit given. 10 years as optometrist, O-5, Flight Commander. The difference, the military doesn’t necessarily care about your experience as an enlisted member, because they are going to put you where they “need” you and may or may not use you for what you are most capable of. If they didn’t have you, well...there’s always someone who needs college money, can’t get a job, couldn’t make it through college, just has a GED, 19 with 5 kids, or just wants out of home or Mayberry...no shortage of new enlistees that they can grow to do exactly what they want them to. It’s not every day that “people with expensive plaques” want to join the military. Sometimes you bait your hook for the type of fish you want to catch. It’s still not a bad living.