Civilians and firearm Safety. Nuclear Scientist killed by negligent discharge by child.

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 10:47:53 -0500

I have seen this while I was a cop a bit. Not, so much in the security sector. But when I would go shooting with my friends that were not in the military I found that they had no respect for the firearm. They would just handle it any way they willed, loaded or not. I would always make a correction and try to reinforce safety whenever I could.

In addition this you have the concealed carry folks. I don't have an issue with it as long as you do so safely. A gun is a deadly weapon. It can kill on accident. I read this article about a mother who was a NUCLEAR SCIENTIST was killed by her two year old child. That is something that will emotional scar that child for life. It just reiterates that anyone can make a mistake. You can't out smart safety.

I don't know why you would even expose a child to a firearm. Even if it was unloaded. Next, you should never keep it where a child could reach it. You wouldn't let a child reach into a bag with an exposed knife it in. Why is a gun any different. Further more if you are going to accept the responsibility of carrying concealed you should not take it for granted. When I did carry it was always on my hip. I never took it off and just set it down anywhere. The only other place for it was secured in it's case.

The moment you don't respect a firearm you will pay the price. There are so many sad and tragic accidents out there.

Police: Boy, 2, accidentally kills mom in Wal-Mart

Woman killed in the accident at a Hayden, Idaho Walmart was 29-year-old Veronica J. Rutledge (left).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2015 10:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 10:46:43 -0500

that sucks

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 3 at 2015 11:54 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 11:54:36 -0500

A few thoughts:
- The mother accidently killed by her 2 year old boy is a tragedy. I am sure, however, that it will be turned into a major media event by those with an agenda.
- I would be interested in seeing national data broke out by state and major city regarding accidental firearms deaths, gun related murders, crime prevented by personnel carrying weapons etc. Simply stated, I do not trust the media to properly educate and inform on this issue.
- 50-60 years ago I think more American grew up on farms and/or were more familiar with weapons and therefore developed better gun safety habits such as:
- Never point a weapon at something you do not intend to kill.
- Treat every weapon as if it is loaded whether it is loaded or not.
- Muzzle awareness at all times.
- Weapons safety training is key.
- Respect for weapons must be instilled/trained at a very young age.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2015 11:59 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 11:59:18 -0500

I believe in teaching kids firearm safety early on but they are kids, in other words you still need to be overly cautious. You can hand a kid a Nerf gun and tell them not to point it at someone's face....chances are it will still happen more than once. It takes constant reinforcement before the message will really sink in but even then accidents happen and my nephew ends up firing a nerf dart that hits me dead in the eye....no massive harm or foul but it happened even though he knows better than to point the Nerf gun at someone's head.

Teach kids safety...reinforce safety..but do your due diligence to negate as many of the risks as possible...things happen but we have the responsibility to ensure we've done our part to limit what really can happen.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jan 3 at 2015 1:50 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:50:17 -0500

While this is a tragic event CPT Private RallyPoint Member, we can and should learn from this event.

I understand we will never know the reason but I would remind other concealed carriers that If you are carrying concealed, do not allow the weapon to leave your possession. Do not become complacent, the firearm is simply a tool and does what it is made to do, point and squeeze and it will send a projectile in the direction pointed...very simple concept but we have to employ the firearm with intent and purpose, not complacency.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2015 4:36 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 16:36:50 -0500

It is NOT about teaching your kids about firearms. It is about securing firearms properly. In study after study, in a lab setting, when kids between the ages of 6-14 discover a firearm, more often than not, they will pull the trigger within 5 minutes. The rate goes up if the kids are in a group instead of alone (hint: which then increases the likelihood that someone will get shot). Having prior familiarity with firearms did not prove to be a significant factor to either increase or decrease the likelihood (the biggest factor seemed to be being a boy; in a group, some times the boy took the firearm from the girl if a girl found it and refused to pull the trigger).

If you think you are increasing safety by keeping a loaded firearm unsecured in your purse, nightstand, or glove compartment, publicly available data will prove you wrong. As 1LT Rosa said, the only way to properly carry a loaded weapon is holstered on your person (or holstered in your vehicle, but I haven't seen many non-law enforcement types with center console holsters). If you do not have positive control over it, someone else can.

Just telling your kid over and over not to play with guns absolutely will not work. Taking him/her to the range will not work. Secure your firearms at all times.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Jan 3 at 2015 11:18 PM

SFC Walter Mack — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 23:18:14 -0500

My children are given bb guns & pellet guns & rubber band guns as toys. Why? Because A. they're fun, and B. they learn to respect them with or without my guidance because they hurt when they hit you. That said, they've never been hit, because common sense, that's why.

We do other things, like make old school Chinese paper armor or sand bags or other forms of cover & shoot them with bow & gun. That is fun and it let's you know the penetration power of various forms of projectiles.

That said, if you have millions of people in a country like.., say..., America, then x number of them will die from negligent discharges. That won't happen in my home, because I'm not a fool. Making general statements about good policy that will not be followed in hundreds of thousands of home does no good. Sometimes we have to accept that accidents will happen, and just try to be part of the solution, instead of the problem.

I refer you to the circle of influence & circle of concern from the 7 habits of highly effective people. I have nothing to do with morons that hand a young girl a fully automatic weapon or a woman that has a weapon in her purse and can't see what her 2 y/o is doing. Both result in the obvious result. The important thing to note is that there is nothing you can say or do that will affect the decision making ability of these people.

I have a family member that keeps loaded weapons all over the house. The result is that one of his progeny pointed a loaded weapon at me. I was angry, but what could I do? I'm pretty damn responsible, but one visit after years of not seeing these loved ones could have ended my existence, and nearly did. I could've spouted policy all day, but I'd still be dead. Sometimes you just have to weigh the positives & negatives of your own society. Personally, I'd rather have my guns & just learn to not visit the stupid ones.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2015 11:24 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 23:24:08 -0500

Like probably everyone else, I heard this story and had a hard time believing anybody would leave a loaded weapon in the reach of a child. Apparently, she didn't have any safety on. Brutal.

My first thought was what you noted, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, that poor boy is going to be the guy who shot his mother - for the rest of his life. He's going to require MAJOR counseling and professional help as he grows up.