Cliques in the Army. Good 'Ol Boys, Masons, Audie Murphy Board winners and the unfair treatment between them.

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 20:44:51 -0500

In AIT, I witnessed a brand new soldier receive special treatment because he and the Sr Drill Sgt were both Masons. I have seen a SFC get out of serious trouble because he and the 1SG were both Masons. I watched an NCO walk into and out a promotion board in less than 2 minutes because they were an Audie Murphy Board winner. I have also been involved in a situation due to an SNCO taking offense to something I said (F-Bomb) and informed me that it wouldn't be tolerated but then while around his fellow SNCOs they used the same profanity loosely without issue. Have you witnessed any of these? How do you feel about this? Is there something that can be done about this?

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Nov 10 at 2013 9:00 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:00:06 -0500

SGT Spangler, sounds like you may be assuming a few things here. How would you know that they got out of trouble simply because they were masons?

As far as an Audie Murphy winner, 2 minutes was probably 1 minute too long for a promotion board. Im not sure what you are complaining about. Do you know what the Audie Murphy board consists of? It's much more difficult than a promotion board which is not hard at all. So for that soldier it's not a matter of can he answer some questions but whether or not he should be recommended for promotion. Something that was probably already decided before the board commenced. It would be different if it were a competition board. You should understand the difference.

As far as the F-Bomb is concerned you shouldn't be using it and remain professional. Then you certainly shouldn't be complaining about it, you should be correcting it. It has nothing to do with Good ole boys or cliques, it has to do with having the fortitude and professionalism to tactfully address it. You do that by setting the example in the first place.

What can be done about all of this is to stop worrying about everyone else and make sure you take care of yourself and your soldiers. Once you and your guys are perfect then start worrying about everyone else and what they get or don't get into trouble for.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 10 at 2013 9:17 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:17:09 -0500

There is some validity to SGT (P) Spangler's post. What if when the favoritism is not based on not only what he mentioned but it is also based on race as I have seen. Then if I am the one to mention it there might be discrimination because of my ethnicity because I am not this particular race someone dares to tell me they will make an EO complaint me. The last time I checked, victims do not get complaints; the perpetrators do.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2013 9:36 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:36:11 -0500

<span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">I have talked to several Senior NCOs and one General Officer who sat on Centralized promotion boards. They say the process is extremely fair. The standards are set prior to voting, DA PAM 600-25 outlines expected duties so there is no changing the standard if a mason ring is spotted in the photo. I know this doesn't address the broader issue of cliques, but performance will win over a clique any day. Remember, a manager never benches or trades a .400 hitter</span>

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Nov 10 at 2013 10:51 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:51:55 -0500

Your question was you do I feel about THIS not just have I seen it. I just told you how I felt about what you wrote.

As far as SAMC is concerned to answer your question, yes I and I think most people would agree with that practice. We all have seen the same thing happen for much less of an accomplishment. As far as that being fair I think you need to think about the context of a promotion board. You aren't competing against anyone but yourself. How everyone else performs has nothing to do with you being recommended for promotion or not. So as far as fairness is concerned yes it is, because its fair to that soldier who has already met the standard and exceeded it.

My point to you is that if you perceive it to be a problem then what have you done about it? As NCO's when we see problems or something substandard it is our duty and charge to address it.

Since you are sure I have cursed you are incorrect. I am a preaching minister and don't use foul language. Just a choice of mine. I don't see the need for it. Just an opinion of mine. All I've ever seen it do is cause problems, much like the one you are complaining about.

Folk know I don't curse, they respect that and remain professional around me because they know that if they don't it will be addressed. I recommend the same approach if it is something you are genuinely concerned about. But if it's that you only care that someone else didn't get in trouble for it, then there's probably other things you could focus on.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2013 2:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:13:18 -0500

I have had several "unaffiliated" Soldiers and NCOs I sponsored walk out of the board in a minute or two, just because of how loud their NCO creed or Army Song was, or how meticulously they memorized the unit history. That comes from the merciless mock boards I and my fellow PSGs subjected them to. As for SAMC members, you would be surprised at the breaks you DON'T catch. You are expected to know everything, and if you can't cite a regulation verbatim, you are chastized. And as for Centralized boards, the SAMC membership (or SAMA as it's now called) is NOT an Army award and does not go on the ERB or the DA photo, so unless the board members went through your entire OMPF and dug out that one ARCOM that cites your selection, the board isn't going to know or probably care.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2013 10:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:39:54 -0500

Being "witness" to anything like this, and not saying anything is
just as bad as doing it,,,ha ha ha ha. That being said, I’ll stop being a tool.
Look man, the perceptions you have are yours. If you take issue with them, you
take action. Is there anything "we" can do….probably not, the Audie
Murphy issue is not really an issue. Those men/women have set themselves apart,
and to be honest deserve some "perks" for all their hard work. Just
like SFC Ruffin, I too have won many accolades as a result of hard work and
dedication. I AM NOT A MASON. I made 7 in 7. The perception of fair treatment
is one man/woman looking out for another. Just as I would if the roles were
reversed. I'd never excuse a crime, but maybe use re-hab moves to help a guy
out instead of letting him be loathed to death (figuratively speaking). In
regard to the cursing....COME ON MAN....don't be upset by that-my perception of
that is it's petty.

I am making light of this for a reason, I do see what you see, but I use
that to fuel my desire to be better. Don't allow someone's action or lack of
action dictates how you operate man. WE ARE PROFESSIONALS!

Response by TSgt Phillip L. made Dec 15 at 2013 5:19 AM

TSgt Phillip L. — Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:19:00 -0500

My experience was that unfair treatment definitely exists in the military, and it made me mad when I saw it. Then I got into the civilian world. It's way worse on the outside.

In reality though, those sorts of boosts will only get a person so far. Education, Job Skills, Experience, ATTITUDE....will almost always overcome. Hang in there.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2013 2:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:55:46 -0500

I will address your question while omitting everyone else's comments. I had a 1SG tell me once, "perseption IS reality". Because of that I always aim to be as transparent, fair, and impartial as possible at all times and teach my Soldiers to do the same.

1. Always do the right thing in and out of uniform and you will not be stuck in the same predicament (ever) as that SFC who got in trouble. If you're second guessing yourself whether something is right or wrong...then 100% of the times it will be wrong.

2. Stop assuming things SGT (P) Spangler. That will get you in a lot of heat. If you want the same treatment as that Audie Murphy Board winner...be one. I always admire those who have gone above and beyond. 2 minutes, 30 seconds, 15 seconds; the fact of the matter is has proven himself already.

3. Being a proffesional means cleaning your vocabulary. Regardless of what you see or hear, always aim to be better then those.

Finally, are there "cliques" in the military, YES, most definitely. Is everyone fairly treated, of course NOT. The only thing you can do about this is set the example, be the example, teach your Soldiers the right things...and your ethical ways will rub off on your leaders and peers.

Matthew 5:47 - "If you greet only your own people, what more are you doing than others? Even people who are ungodly (unethical, wrongful) do that."

"Be, Know, Do" my friend.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 19 at 2013 3:35 PM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 15:35:03 -0500

I would be interested to learn what personal beliefs would prevent anyone from participating in an Audie Murphy Board, sounds like a cop out to me or you do not know the intent of the TRADOC Sergeant Audie Murphy Club (SAMC).

http://www-tradoc.army.mil/tpubs/regs/r600-14.pdf

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 8:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 08:16:37 -0500

SGT Spangler, I would like to throw my opinion in the hat in reference to your post. #1 - If that SR Drill compromised his professionalism by treating that new SM differently, shame on him. Not happenning on my watch, but as a new SM yourself, it probably wouldn't have ended well with you voicing your opinion on the treatment. #2 You "assume" that the SFC only got out of percieved trouble because of his Fraternal Affiliations, and we all know what assuming does. Without you having first hand knowledge of the alleged incident or being the investigating officer, you are not aware of all the circumstances. Being a Mason has not given ME any perks or benefits as a SFC, so maybe I am ignorant to what those perks are. I know it happens and I am not saying that it doesn't, and there is nothing we can do about it OTHER than call it out when we see it, and know it to be 100% true. #3 - SAMC...it is what it is. Take that walk and once you do, you may understand the WHY of the percieved special treatment. I am not a SAMC member, but I would like to be and I am preparing myself for that in the very near future. Fair and equal treatment across the board is the standard and yes, sometimes individuals pick and chose what to follow when and when and when not to enforce them. WRONG...100%. It was broken down to me recently like this. The mark on your chest isn't WHO you are, it is merely a microphone so you can speak on behalf of others. When you, as an NCO see unfair treatment, you took an oath to SPEAK UP, tactfully of course, and correct the situation. The Army has policies in place to correct those situations, find them and fix the actual problems, not the percieved ones.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2014 8:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:39:41 -0400

Let me address this as an NCO and a Freemason. First off I will admit that I am totally against these boards. To me they are not an indication of leadership ability, they are an indication of memory ability. I have seen A LOT of piss poor leaders hiding behind that medallion. As a matter of fact I recently had two of my Battle Staff students that were members but couldn't plot on a map.
I have seen people sent before these boards with made up squads, meaning all of the top PT kids were assigned to them on paper in order to make their leaders book look good. I have seen made up ( pencil whipped APFT and weapons cards) for candidates that we're being groomed by a buddy.
Once I attended a pre-board and when they asked why I didn't have a 300 pt score I said because I couldn't score 300, they obviously didn't like that answer but they especially didn't like it when I asked what Audie Murphy's pt score was?
Anyhow, now as a Freemason I will tell you from my point of view using our affiliation for preferential treatment in the Army is 1000% wrong. In fact it would be considered unmasonic conduct. Our fraternity is a philanthropic group working for the betterment of mankind. Yes we have an obligation to our brethren but it is not for personal or political gain. Those that use it for that bring shame on the order. Many of my co-workers have no idea that I am a Mason but it's not because I choose to keep it covert but because it has no place in the workplace. My duties and obligations to the order are outside the Army. The only time I will even mention it to others is if they are also a brother and I want to invite them to a barbecue or meeting or something related to our order.
Unfortunately there are lodges out there that despite our rules actually go out and recruit members. This recruitment in most cases draws the wrong people to the order. I don't care if they are 3 letter or 4, Blue Lodge or PHA, we have rules and those that violate them bring shame and discredit to our order. I know if I saw someone trying to get special treatment I wouldn't hesitate to confront them.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Feb 14 at 2015 12:10 AM

SPC Angel Guma — Sat, 14 Feb 2015 00:10:24 -0500

Hypocrisy.
Complacency.

What can be done? Change human nature.

Not everyone in the military is like this though. Rest easy. I just try to stay focused on the mission, keeps me from going nuts.

Response by CPT Joshua Dumont made May 5 at 2017 11:39 AM

CPT Joshua Dumont — Fri, 05 May 2017 11:39:59 -0400

It is a losing game to be the unfavored duckling of a unit. Consider the reasons why you are not one of the guys. Read the book "How to win friends and influence people". Consider changing things that you can control.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2017 11:48 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 May 2017 11:48:55 -0400

I understand the Audie Murphy one. Honestly if you have the knowledge and confidence to go to an Audie Murphy board and win, then a promotion board is trivial. Thanks for showing up SGT, move out.

The Masons is special treatment I agree. It doesn't take much to be a Mason.

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made May 5 at 2017 12:15 PM

SPC Rob Lewis — Fri, 05 May 2017 12:15:50 -0400

I only saw two examples of “special” treatment when I was in. First, I know of a buck sergeant (E-5) that never took or finished a PT test. He would show up in PT gear go talk to the grader and then leave. He always had a passing score.
Second was a female who had dirt on everyone in the unit by hook, crook or “special favors”. She never had extra duty, special assignments or anything. Tons of time off.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made May 5 at 2017 1:34 PM

SrA Paul Pfeil — Fri, 05 May 2017 13:34:51 -0400

Wait, what are you doing on active duty on social media whining about people above you? Suck it up buttercup.

Response by SPC James Anderson made May 5 at 2017 9:48 PM

SPC James Anderson — Fri, 05 May 2017 21:48:01 -0400

Ya, I've seen it, time to figure out life isnt fair and quit crying about it. Everyone wants to be different, then complains when others are treated differently from them, well no shit? This sounds like a question straight out of the "participation trophy" generation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 3:15 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 May 2017 03:15:57 -0400

Re-instate FM22-102

Response by MSG Ronnie Snider made Oct 31 at 2017 1:06 PM

MSG Ronnie Snider — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:06:42 -0400

I have been and Audie Murphy Club member from 1999- present (retired 2010) I cannot recall getting out of anything because I was a member. You are not even allowed to list it on your off. military file (is that fair?) If you think its so easy, try out for the AMC when you are able to and you might see sometimes a break might be fair. A mason does not get things handed to them either. We all worked very hard for these memberships. Sometimes you should act like them (in most cases, there are a few that slip the system) and always try your best even when it looks wrong to you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 3:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 03:25:59 -0400

I think that believing in yourself is more important...but also being apart of something may helps in many ways..and above all belief in God you will make it!

Response by SSG Michael Raysses made May 18 at 2018 6:02 AM

SSG Michael Raysses — Fri, 18 May 2018 06:02:54 -0400

Well guys and gals.... we've all had and SEEN our share of the troopies who get and RECEIVE special treatment from others we've served alongside with.... but be that as it may?.... I always told my junior troopers to ACT ACCORDINGLY, be professional, be tactful, and just DO YOUR JOBS!.... being a 92-G30... we always had alotta fun in our chow halls.... prepping and cooking our meals for our hungry troops... so when it came time to FEED THEM....we were always kind and patient and served them with a smile!!!... and the LEVITY?... it was always there!.... if you liked certain fellow troopers, you busted their proverbial balls.... if not?... you still were courteous to those whom you DIDNT KNOW.... that's just the way we'd treat people.... feed them, and thank them.... and we'd see them again.... can't count the times I was complimented on just how I made someone's day after they had a hard days training, and looked forward to a nice hot meal... and then later THANKED ME, for providing it... but as far as the "GOOD OL BOY" syndrome went???... I didn't pay it any mind!... I kicked ASS in my MOS... and everyone who ate my food...????.. knew SSG RAYSSES didn't FUCK AROUND when it came to feeding my soldiers!!.. HOOAH?... and I've fed every rank from E-1 thru 0-9's.... Can I get a HOOAH, SERGEANT??..

Response by MSgt Karen Abramovitz made May 19 at 2018 7:31 AM

MSgt Karen Abramovitz — Sat, 19 May 2018 07:31:22 -0400

The Good 'ol boy club has been around forever, I just learned to accept it while active duty. I didn't like it but if anyone "bucked" the system so to speak, it just made it worse on that person. Better to suck it up than get treated worse after voicing concern about the special treatment the good 'ol boys were getting...

Response by CPT Don Kemp made May 19 at 2018 7:44 AM

CPT Don Kemp — Sat, 19 May 2018 07:44:44 -0400

When my daughter was younger, she would sometimes tell me of an incident and end with “and that’s not fair.”
My response was always, “Life is not fair. Get over it.” By that, I meant, “be good enough so that fair doesn’t matter.”

Response by Jesse Nelson made May 23 at 2018 11:10 PM

Jesse Nelson — Wed, 23 May 2018 23:10:48 -0400

They need more training and more cleaning

Response by SPC Shane White made May 28 at 2018 3:30 PM

SPC Shane White — Mon, 28 May 2018 15:30:43 -0400

No I watched my fellow soldier and roommate sneak two German nationals into the barracks and we had an inspection the next day and when they opened his wall locker whom do u think was in there, he had been in the army for less than a month and received a smack on the hand no extra duty or demotion. But a good friend of mine whom I deployed to Iraq with served his country honerably and never once had any misconduct of any kind got married while he was a E4 in Germany and was still living out of the barracks, he came back to the barracks for one night before his honeymoon with his newly married wife and forgot to sign her in with CQ. The next week he was demoted to E3 Pfc and had to do 45 days of extra duty.......the only difference is my first sergeant was black and also a mason and my roommate was black and a mason aswell. Guess what color my friend I deployed with was......I leave you with that, in my unit white soldiers were repeatedly looked over for promotions meanwhile my chief whom was a black mason made E6 say before his first 4 year term was up.... we all got together one night, white soldiers aswell as black soldiers and wrote our commander and he was demoted after a court martial and had to move to another unit. Yes it happens but I just have to keep an eye out for it and act when you see descrimation in the military.

Response by SPC Joseph Cates made May 30 at 2018 4:37 PM

SPC Joseph Cates — Wed, 30 May 2018 16:37:39 -0400

Idk bout yall but id be trying to figure out how to receive special treatment myself

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made May 30 at 2018 4:53 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Wed, 30 May 2018 16:53:48 -0400

Life is not fair and neither is the Service. The army is ate up with cligues and not just social ones. The airborne has its clique and so does special forces, the list goes on. I remember the Mason braggers when I was in the regular army. To me it was no big deal. I knew who I was and what I wanted to achieve and it was to be the best infantryman I could be. I even went to the SGT Morales board but didn't make it because I had recommended too many unfit soldiers for chaptering out. I did end up in a clique after hard work, Special Operations.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 30 at 2018 8:48 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:48:46 -0400

If you had proof, then you should have done something at that time. Assuming, hearsay, or just because they are in a group doesn't mean they got over. As for Audie Murphy boards, anyone who can pass that show they are outstanding soldiers, so perhaps the promotion board didn't want to waste their time. What makes you think the SFC wasn't counseled, punished- I don't think the 1SG or SFC have to tell you anything. Actually (my opinion) is that I am hearing some sour grapes with no facts to back them up into reporting someone.

Response by Sgt Jon Sanders made Jun 2 at 2018 9:09 PM

Sgt Jon Sanders — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:09:20 -0400

I expected the same standards of my men as of me so if I acted nasty that they could too. But I did not, and to be honest I was scared I did not hold up as a sergeant. But I did because we are still in contact. Most of us, I heard the scuttlebutt but chose to ignore it. Just enlisted politics.

Response by Sgt Jon Sanders made Jun 2 at 2018 9:13 PM

Sgt Jon Sanders — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:13:24 -0400

Sorry to add I was once told you will always be called a Marine first your name second so remember your actions reflect the Corps first and you second. Don't show your ass in public or while leading, lead by example.my D.I. told us this.

Response by SSG Andrew Clay made Jun 4 at 2018 12:19 AM

SSG Andrew Clay — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 00:19:07 -0400

I saw this too much when I was in. I’m retired now but don’t miss the politics.

Response by PFC Abu Anas made Jun 4 at 2018 9:30 AM

PFC Abu Anas — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 09:30:05 -0400

Response by PFC Quinlan Sugg made Jun 9 at 2018 8:28 PM

PFC Quinlan Sugg — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 20:28:13 -0400

I had a buddy who was a pipe hitter got a DUI gone ASAP my SSG got a DUI at ALC was kept and made E-6 back in 3 months because he was friends with the 1SG and the BRIGADE commander

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2018 11:52 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 11:52:18 -0400

#atleastIdonteatcrayons

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2018 11:32 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:32:30 -0400

Yes, me especially being new to my unit and to the army understand what its like to be the new guy, and expect some corrective training specifically because there are things i need to be taught that comes with being new. But for NCO’s as well as other ranks that take advantage of there rank and make you do corrective training past the point the the NCO themselves couldnt even do just because they can is bullshit. If your gonna provide me with a punishment, you best make sure that it’s something i can actually respect, not just something you do knowing you can hide behind your rank.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 9:39 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:48 -0400

Nothing can be done for this. Fort Stewart is full of NCOs like this with preference to other soldiers and don’t do anything to them while others get F over.

Response by Sgt Robert Blackwell made Jun 22 at 2018 12:57 PM

Sgt Robert Blackwell — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:57:53 -0400

Fair is the boy scouts, Military is for men.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2018 10:40 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:40:32 -0400

Frequently. I know not all units are anti female but mine largely was. Before the state changed things the town my unit moved to was all male. So when females started showing up favoritism started. One AT while we were packing up to head home a male in my section(92G ) heals a fuel nozzle in front of his crotch and in front of our whole section asked if I wanted his big black d!@€. We are both married to non military personnel. We both have kids. Buy he wanted to target the female. I turned to the highest ranking NCO present and told him to deal with it or I would and I was isolated after that because I "over reacted" to his joke. All they did was tell him to just stay away from me. He had been buddies with all the high ups for years so I was just the female looking to ruin someone's career. My unit has all kinds of clicks

Response by SGT Corey Gray made Jun 26 at 2018 7:07 PM

SGT Corey Gray — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 19:07:50 -0400

A) did you use the F-bomb at or near an officer or senior NCO? Falls under disrespect of rank. Similarly, using them around female service members is STILL, for some reason, considered more objectionable.

B.)Apparently you haven't a clue what the Audie Murphy Board is...might want to look him up, and then what it takes to win that award. It rates fast-tracking. Damn near as much as actually being awarded a CMH personally.

C.) what kind of "serious trouble"? Remember, an NCO's job, in part, is to let the CO know if a man is "salvagable", and should face courts-martial, official administrative punishment, or unofficial administrative punishment.

The MOST impacting of official administrative punishment anyone over E-5 can receive officially is reduction to E-4 (non-NCO variant...Spec-4 in Army), restriction to battalion area for 6 weeks, loss of half a months' pay two consecutive months, and 6 weeks of "extra duty". Anything further requires a court-martial, which NO officer wants in his unit, because it means HE is not in control of his unit, and unit discipline is poor...which reflects on his promotability....since after light bird, you're doomed to desk jobs UNLESS you're lucky enough to get a regiment (hence why most retirees are at Colonel or Light Bird, especially of combat arms experienced COs), no light bird (battalion commander, usually) wants that...as it means he WON'T get a combat regiment, or even a combat support regiment. And will most likely be "politicked out" though the "up and out" policies, since most promotions above full bird are more political and organizational than based on abilities as a leader.

Since these are issues that will destroy careers...especially with the "14 year up and out" policy for E-6 (SFC), if the senior NCO advises the CO not to do it officially, because the soldier is "salvagable", and busting him to E-4 will make it IMPOSSIBLE for him to be E-6 P by the time his 14th year comes up...they will avoid doing so, to an otherwise good sergeant.

Same reason that, at company level, a captain may well realize you're so drunk that the guys to either side of you are leaning in to hold you up...but since it's battalion run day, they just figure they'll run it out of you, and let you figure out how to puke it off while keeping up AND attempting to stay in formation...they COULD fuck you over..either with an article 15 dropping you back to E-1, taking a half month's pay, giving you extra chores, and "grounding you"...or court-marshalling you...OR, favorite choice, running your ass off, making you miserable, laughing at you the whole time, and, when done, asking "so, what did you learn today?"

Additionally, since it takes a FIELD GRADE article 15 or referral to court-martial...a first sgt...senior NCO in a COMPANY, not BATTALION, only has the ability to advice the COMPANY CO...or to give his opinion to the SMAJ, who is senior NCO of the battalion, which is the level NCOs must be punished from. Captain can't do shit but bitch him out and SUGGEST to the battalion commander a course of action, just like Top can only advise Smaj as to HIS opinions, but take no actual action, in and of himself.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2018 11:39 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 11:39:36 -0400

It’s called politics, play the game.

Response by CPO Richard Weir made Oct 8 at 2018 5:56 PM

CPO Richard Weir — Mon, 08 Oct 2018 17:56:30 -0400

Go masons

Response by PO3 Wiley Dixon made Oct 9 at 2018 8:46 AM

PO3 Wiley Dixon — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 08:46:56 -0400

Relax guys, it’s not unique to the military. In any group of three or more, there will be a clique. Sometimes you’re in, sometimes not.

Response by PFC David McLeod made Oct 9 at 2018 12:05 PM

PFC David McLeod — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 12:05:29 -0400

Most certainly. We had an E-6 team leader in the fuel squad who was "Big C" to everyone from e-nothing to bird colonel as long as their skin color matched. This PFC called him that once and I barely escaped an article 15.

Response by LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. made Oct 9 at 2018 1:07 PM

LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 13:07:10 -0400

Sounds like the Army needs to loose all the SJW/ Touchy-feely crap and get back to Soldiering!!! Are you there because you want to defend your country and keep the wolves from the flock? Or is this a networking seminar for post service?

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made Oct 9 at 2018 2:21 PM

SPC Phillip Vossler — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 14:21:57 -0400

Yes, either become a mason, or win the audie murphy award, js

Response by SFC Jeff Hutchinson made Oct 9 at 2018 4:14 PM

SFC Jeff Hutchinson — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 16:14:40 -0400

Do these things exists? Absolutely. The same can be said in the civilian world. Does it make the case that’s it’s not about what you know but who you know? Not necessarily. My experience has been that while favoritism/nepotism does exists it is more the exception than the rule. That said, the cream always seems to rise to the top. If you do your job and do it well and live the NCO creed, you’ll get to where you want to go. The Army is flawed because it’s comprised of imperfect people. Call out enjustice when you see it and ensure you don’t repeat the mistakes. Other than that, Rotate your selector switch to semi automatic and watch........your lane. Oh yeah, keep your weapon pointed up and down range at all times.

Response by SGT David Pendergast made Oct 9 at 2018 8:11 PM

SGT David Pendergast — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 20:11:20 -0400

Things certainly have changed since I was in (1981-86). The only clique was Vietnam Veterans. If you were smart you learned from them. I learned a lot from my sncos. From squad to platoon to 1st Sgt. Stop complaining shut your mouth and open your ears and eyes and learn.

Response by SPC Glenn Wilson made Oct 10 at 2018 12:01 AM

SPC Glenn Wilson — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 00:01:27 -0400

While on duty everyone should be treated the same otherwise the effectiveness of the unit could be compromised.

Response by SP5 Dave Heathman made Oct 10 at 2018 1:12 AM

SP5 Dave Heathman — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 01:12:05 -0400

Yew grin a bear it move on it ain’t no thing

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Oct 10 at 2018 12:05 PM

Lt Col George Roll — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:05:52 -0400

In AIT you are there to learn a trade. You are not the social justice/ equal oppertunities representative.
Kindly shut your mouth, open your ears. Learn your job learn lessons at to how to be a good leader and good soldier. Learn from the positive and from the negative lessons taught by your instructors words and behavior.
Oh and "Get over yourself" it sounds from your comments like you should have joined the girl scouts.
Don't worry if senior NCOs use "bad"words, its something guys in the Military often talk like that.

Response by SPC Adam Barker made Oct 10 at 2018 12:59 PM

SPC Adam Barker — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:59:02 -0400

Nope good luck. You just get more shit if u do. I’ve been there many times. Head down and grind on soldier.

Response by SGT Dale Palmer made Oct 10 at 2018 2:01 PM

SGT Dale Palmer — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:01:59 -0400

This is not particular to Masons and you will find it in all walks of life. People who authority figures relate to tend to tend to give them a bit more consideration. They may not even realize it sometimes. I'm not saying it's right, but that within certain bounds it is human, and almost everyone is guilty of it at some time. I would save your outrage, honestly.

Response by SMSgt Stephen Winner made Oct 10 at 2018 5:01 PM

SMSgt Stephen Winner — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:01:04 -0400

Experienced similar outcomes for personnel so were Eagle Scouts.

Response by SP5 Tom Carlson made Oct 11 at 2018 6:14 AM

SP5 Tom Carlson — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:14:06 -0400

no different than corporate america

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 1:03 AM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Dec 2018 01:03:49 -0500

As a Freemason myself, I always held to the standard that it was on me to excel. Not any organization that I belonged to. The traits from Freemasonary I have carried throughout my life continues today. Especially, in ministry, in teaching, in my family walk and especially during my military career. Strive to be the best that you can be, Give your 110 percent. Do your best and that’s all one can ask from you. Use your mentors and study to show yourself approved. As a kid growing up, many in my family never expected me to be anything. I was laughed at by several in my family. To include my Father. I was a high school drop out and headed no where. That is, until I joined the military. I was able to complete my High School Diploma, acquire Advanced College Degrees and receive a Commission. After looking back, I realized many people played a role to my success story in life, but it was upon me to complete the task. I learned a long time ago that to be a leader, one must not judge and one must stay positive. Respect is the key. My faith has carried me far concerning this small trait. As a Freemason, my hope is, that I will attribute goodness and positive reflection whomever I cross paths with. Lead by example, help those who are in need, and always give positive feedback. Character, Morals and Intestinal Fortitude are just a few attributes that will carry you forward in your military career. Challenge yourself to be above those things that you have no control over. You will go far. I wish you success in your military career.