Command climate...what's the point if nothing changes?

2015-12-05T19:39:45-05:00

I've been at this unit for almost a year now. Have done 5 online surveys and 2 "in person" ones with higher headquarters personnel. Morale is down, cohesion is gone, and communication and care for soldiers well being is at its worst. What's the point in doing these surveys and "sensing sessions" if not a single thing that's brought up or complained about has been improved

Response by SGT(P) Daniel McBride made Dec 5 at 2015 7:40 PM

2015-12-05T19:40:45-05:00

It's one thing to see soldiers a little disgruntled but to see the best you've got throw in the towel is beyond sad

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 5 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-12-05T19:43:49-05:00

They're mandatory after taking command.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-12-05T19:51:16-05:00

Change is hard. The fact that you've done that many shows that leadership is aware there is a problem. I can't tell you that things will get better soon but your leadership knows something is wrong and they have found several ways to fix it that haven't worked....yet.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Dec 5 at 2015 8:03 PM

2015-12-05T20:03:15-05:00

Have you asked anyone above you (if possible) and let them know your concerns outside of a survey? What exactly are the problems? Are you sure a lower level cannot fix them? Just worth asking.

These surveys can work and get people fired. I know one time, supposedly a lot of people gave a lot of scathing input on leadership on one of these surveys, and issues involving said person at the same time and they were promptly relieved of command.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 8:55 PM

2015-12-05T20:55:35-05:00

The surveys are a waste of time. A bunch of questions in a standardized format that in 90% of cases hasn't been tailored to a specific unit. A lot of commanders sadly enough couldn't give two craps about the results as long as it doesn't make them look bad. Most only do them because they are mandated. As a commander, you learn a hell of a lot more about your unit of you occasionally get in the trenches with your soldiers and actually talk to them. And I mean genuine, honest and open talking. Just my two cents.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 12:09 AM

2015-12-06T00:09:17-05:00

SGT- do what you can to enhance morale in your sphere of influence. Focus on your Soldiers and peers. Let them know that, no matter what is going on in your particular unit, there are better experiences in the Army. Look for constructive ways to help your leaders understand what is going on. No real leader I have ever known wants bad morale and cohesion in his/her unit. I doubt your leaders do either. Support them as an NCO and junior leader.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 2:43 AM

2015-12-06T02:43:29-05:00

What many people don't know is that commanders select the questions. That is why many times you notice certain known issues not even come up.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Dec 6 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-12-06T10:35:12-05:00

I always do them and am honest with them.

I think that a part of the issue with them is many people don't take them seriously. Troops either don't do them at all or if they do they just speed through it rating everything really high. I think a part of that may be that some people are concerned they might be disciplined for speaking out despite the surveys generally being anonymous. Speak with the people of your unit and try to stress that it is important to take some time and fill them out honestly. Change will only come if enough people push for it. If change still doesn't happen as others have said run it through other sources. If there was that toxic of a situation here I would probably go to the IG if I had exhausted all other resources.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 10:37 AM

2015-12-06T10:37:44-05:00

SGT(P) Daniel McBride The sad part is that there is a requirement to do the survey I have seen a commander relieved for not doing a survey. However once they do the survey there is no requirement to do anything with it.

Response by SPC Alexander Brandt made Dec 6 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-12-06T10:55:57-05:00

Our unit has undergone three Command Climate Surveys during my tenure with them. The answers always paint a picture of a unit suffering from low morale and questionable leadership.

Following those surveys, something big always happens. There will be greater efforts by command to focus on the needs of soldiers, an emphasis on family, or just making sure people are released earlier than 1900. For about a week, things seem to improve.

Then they stop. Everything goes back to normal and nothing of significance is accomplished. Then a Command Climate Survey is posted later in the year and the responses are identical.

Response by SSG John Caples made Dec 6 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-12-06T11:14:25-05:00

That is why it is your job to take care of your soldier's and don't worry about the other higher ranking in the Unit. It is your job to maintain that unit cohesion no matter what, you are a Nco, a leader of soldier's. You have only been there a year but you as a Nco should make a difference it takes the power of one to achieve what many cannot. STAY STRONG AND BELIVE IN YOUR UPPER LEADERSHIP OR WORK ON BECOMING UPPER LEADERSHIP

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Dec 6 at 2015 9:37 PM

2015-12-06T21:37:12-05:00

Sorry to read that you are buried in paper work. We did not do that back in my day. Every profession seems to be getting buried in paper so there is data to analyze. In many way the computer is the worst thing that ever happened. Gen. Puller said, I paraphrase, you only need an inbox (your right pocket) and an outbox (your left pocket), any more than that and you bury commanders in paperwork. Field Marshall Rommel said something similar, but I don't remember how he put it anymore.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-12-07T16:31:02-05:00

So the command team can pretend they care.

Response by SGT Michael Igel made Dec 13 at 2015 5:32 AM

2015-12-13T05:32:50-05:00

I was in 664 in the 553 ar the time and seen a LOT of change after several put in they wanted to kill them self and other extreme measures because of the units leadership at the time.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 8:26 AM

2015-12-15T08:26:44-05:00

Focus on what you can affect ... fix and sustain your world.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 9:16 AM

2015-12-15T09:16:08-05:00

I can tell you from my own experience that the surveys are taken very seriously by senior leadership. There are many reasons why one may not see change as a direct result of the survey. The first reason is simple math. If not enough people take the survey, the results are deemed "statistically insignificant". In other words, too few people took the survey and the information gained can be skewed to the positive or negative resulting in a false sense of the organization. If ten people are really stoked (or disgruntled) about an organization then they could give the impression that everything is great (or horrible). A second reason is that the survey yielded positive data, but, the few people that are having a negative impression of the organization feel "unheard" because there was no observable change as a result of the survey. A third reason is that things are so bad in the organization that a single (or few) changes would not fix it. This situation can result in senior leadership arguing like politicians about the best way forward. Unfortunately, this stalls the process of change. While there may be many more reasons that I could elaborate on, I would like to get to the "cures". Firstly, as the commander, I provide the results to my entire unit at once during a Commander's Call. If the survey was statistically insignificant, I will let them know at that moment. I will tell them that the results are not visible to me. I would then push them to use their chain of command to communicate any individual issues that could have been missed. If the survey yielded actionable intel, I would point that out as well. Secondly, I would ask my unit to not put too much value in a very positive survey, but to stay vigilant for the outliers (people who, for whatever reason were not "heard" in the survey). Lastly, if the survey yielded negative results, I would inform my troops of the issues and begin open dialogue with each section identified with issues. Finally, I will close with a suggestion. I ask any member who feels under represented to reach out to someone. Guidance and mentoring do not necessarily involve your job. Feelings, emotions, and perceptions can be very powerful. Check with your chaplain, psychological health team, or trusted leader. Feelings of things "not getting better" can lead to a larger problem throughout the unit, when in fact a small percentage of the unit may be working in a "toxic climate". That small percentage of personnel could help the entire unit by "outing" a hidden issue. Thank you for posting this question. As you can probably tell, this is one of my passionate subjects.

Response by COL Robert Gaudsmith made Dec 15 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-12-15T10:11:03-05:00

SGT
Surveys are a tool and sometime a "tool" doesn't respond. My advice is to focus on what you can impact. All leaders should do what they can to keep crap from rolling down the hill. Also, unit cultures change over time. Officers will change out. Good luck.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 1:33 PM

2015-12-15T13:33:50-05:00

SGT McBride, I was in a similar situation when I was a Junior NCO. You want nothing more than to motivate your Troops and tell them that "It doesn't matter if they care, I care." or "I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that there's change..." Then at the end of the day, you start to lose your own motivation and tend to not know what to say anymore when some of the decisions being made are so far fetched that you believe they just threw darts at a giant board of bad ideas.

The best thing that you can do as an NCO in these situations is to educate them on the importance of maintaining their military bearing, being resilient, and keeping their heads on the Mission. Secondly, educate your Troops on the importance of answering these surveys (and the others that come from higher) honestly, wholly, and with clear, decisive information that cannot be looked over. While it may be "one more thing" they have to do alongside their multitude of other responsibilities, it's of the upmost importance in a bad climate such as you describe.

I can tell you that if you've had Sensing Sessions and the like, there are already more than likely moves being made in the background; however, these things take time. Maintain that backbone: be the example, know the standards, and do what is right.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-12-15T21:15:12-05:00

Go to the higher command your unit EO NCO. Then if that does not work after a while go to your higher unit CSM under their open door policy.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 7:37 AM

2015-12-16T07:37:32-05:00

Good Morning SGT McBride,

In my 20 years of Army experience (I retire next year), PCSing to 10 duty stations, with 7 years enlisted time and 13 years commissioned time, I have never seen a command climate survey have a positive impact on the morale of a unit. Your experience is not unique.

If the leadership over the command having the command climate survey cares about the troops, then something happens. Here is an example:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/31/colonel-removed-over-accusations-kissing-spouses-poor-leadership.html

If the leadership over your leadership is toxic, then the command climate survey doesn’t matter IMO (see below)

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/01/08/military-memories-i-realize-now-that-when-i-was-a-captain-i-was-a-toxic-leader/

However, some command climate surveys do uncover problems with those in the ranks, and action is taken. Examples of success (sort of) from the Navy follow:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/12/09/navy-sophisticated-sub-ring-repeatedly-filmed-women/77068836/

http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news/military/2015/11/16/report-long-hours-nosy-co-pet-goat-aboard-cruiser-lake-erie/75881784/

Remember NOBODY thinks they are toxic or the problem. That’s just human nature.

I’ll post an amusing story next from way, way back when I was first commissioned. It shows you what a toxic leader is like, and that command climate surveys only work if the command wants to change (or they are caught on the media doing something illegal or immoral).

With respect,

MAJ Aaron Miaullis

Colonel Removed Over Accusations of Kissing Spouses, Poor Leadership

As Congress wrangled with the growing clamor over sexual misconduct, a CO regularly gave subordinates' wives unwelcome kisses.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 7:45 AM

2015-12-16T07:45:54-05:00

Good Morning SGT McBride,

This article might help.

http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20130228_art012.pdf

With respect,

MAJ Miaullis

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 3:55 PM

2015-12-18T15:55:53-05:00

I would say that you as an NCO should be the buffer of that command and them Soldiers. Keep your soldiers motivated and make them want to do the job for you. Provide that motivation and make it fun.

Response by SPC Anne Miller made Jan 15 at 2016 10:36 PM

2016-01-15T22:36:48-05:00

I have special interest at this location. It was here I transitioned for Active Duty to Army Wife, even a (oh well, too long a story) My actual duty station was DLI, Foxtrot Co.
My husband was discharged reduced to rank of E-1.