Comparing Military Wages to Minimum Wage? Thoughts why this is a valid/invalid argument?

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:49:35 -0400

I keep seeing people posting about Military wages to a $15 an hour minimum wage. Is this even a valid argument?

Typo in title *argument

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 12 at 2016 4:05 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 04:05:42 -0400

Not really, Throw in Room and Board, then you might have something to work with. I knew in London with all the "Special" pays I was getting, I was making a lot of money. When talking about Military Pay it is Apples and Oranges.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 12 at 2016 7:25 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 07:25:25 -0400

Not valid...

Regular Military Compensation (RMC) is defined as the sum of basic pay, average basic allowance for housing, basic allowance for subsistence, and the federal income tax advantage that accrues because the allowances are not subject to federal income tax. RMC represents a basic level of compensation which every service member receives, directly or indirectly, in-cash or in-kind, and which is common to all military personnel based on their pay grade, years of service, and family size.

http://www.armyreenlistment.com/rmc-calculator.html

This calculator will compute your regular military compensation based on your inputs. Regular military compensation is the approximate amount of an equivalent civilian salary.

Regular Military Compensation (RMC) Calculator (2016 Version)

Regular Military Compensation (RMC) is defined as the sum of basic pay, average basic allowance for housing, basic allowance...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 7:43 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 07:43:21 -0400

I feel that I am well compensated, BUT, I reject any comparison on wages and benefits based on the unique demands of the job.

If any civ career demanded deployments, field training, constant moves, etc. (Getting shot at), then I could see the equivocation. We are here to serve, and that includes a measure of sacrifice on our part.

I believe we have a good system of compensation, but I never think liking the military to a civ profession leads to a fair assessment (of anything).

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 12:34 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:34:07 -0400

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member You can not compare military pay to civilian pay. I served 1968-1972. The pay was bad, the mess halls were poor, except for Boot Camp, and the barracks and other accommodations were bad. I worked extremely long hours all four years and suffered hardships and the loss of friends. No one forced me to join, I joined to serve my country. Thank you for serving your country! Again, military pay can not be compared to civilian pay because the jobs are too different.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 12 at 2016 12:39 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:39:34 -0400

A fry chef does not have the responsibilities of a young SM nor the risk to body, mind, and soul.

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Apr 12 at 2016 10:36 PM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:36:24 -0400

It's a specious argument and anyone who makes such an argument demonstrates such a low level of financial intelligence and understanding of the value of benefits and total compensation that it's not worth having a discussion with them.

Typically this is an argument or 'false flag' statement by someone trying to stir political points, and similar in nature to arguing for some particular point of view by saying 'it's for the children' or it's 'pro-family' etc.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 10:38 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:38:31 -0400

One thing I do when discussing civilian pay-v-military pay is turn it around.

1. How much SHOULD a (insert civilian job here) make each year for low/mid level experience?
2. Now the job requires moving across the nation - possibly around the WORLD every 2-4 years. How much MORE would they have to pay them to keep them?
3. Now the career field requires promotions - no more staying at one level forever. How much MORE should they be paid to compensate them for that?
4. Now the career field requires them to possibly do all sorts of other stuff - possibly HR, possibly training new folks either to enter the workforce in general OR in that career field. How much MORE should they be paid to compensate them for that?
5. Now the career field requires them to be transferred to hostile environments where people will actively try to kill them. How much more should they be paid to attract them and keep them AND compensate them for the danger?

USUALLY, that's enough to get folks to say that the Shift Manager at McDonalds should be paid around $75,000 per year to compensate them for all that hell.

Their bubble bursts when I tell them that this is what an E-4 does in the military, for a HELL of a lot less. For some reason, they never want to continue the discussion after this... and I don't know why...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 6:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2016 18:41:33 -0400

I just went through the 2016 budget plan and seen that the President is was request a 18% raise for him and four others... an offering of over 3.2 million dollars every year for the five of them. New York and California are now paying $15 an hour, have to pay part of your health insurance, and if you're salaried you are mandated to get one and half times your pay over 40 hours per a week.
Lets see $15 an hour for 40 hours is $2400 a month. I see a Soldier with either 8 years or SGT over four years making that. Sure we get health insurance but not a lot of jobs say go to the motor pool and clean oil barrels all day (hope you brought your gloves) or need you to pull those guys out of that burning tank. While you're at it carry this 95 lbs of gear and jump out of this plane at 1400 ft, we're going for a 12-15 mile walk back to the company and clean weapons until 2000 hours, I don't care that you've been up since 0400 this morning. Oh and pack a lunch, you'll get dinner when you get home, hope you had breakfast.
With all the injuries and readiness thoughts, there is a reason we get health insurance... could you image a NASCAR team that told the driver he had to buy his own tires if he wanted to race?
We get educational benefits that are dwindling in their rights and ability in use over the years. Think if the government says free public college/community college for all... it's in the news.
What else do we get BAH/BAS for some, but this assist the DoD, as they don't have to put a lot of support in maintenance of housing structures or the dfac. When someone signs up they say they will give you room and board, as they should. You have to leave your home, family, and neighborhood and sleep where your "new uncle" says to.
I think as a SFC with 18 years in I'm compensated okay.
I seen in the another conversation that we have little to no job skill... I think that's totally a stupid comment. Most Americans can't break down a rifle or set up their home entertainment system. Most have issues with getting on the internet, we have Soldiers setting up complex networks of communications. We have Soldiers working on tanks, helicopters, and airplanes in which their civilian counterparts make 65-88,000 a year typically starting.
We have to keep ourselves fit, work in the hardest conditions, and do it everyday if asked. We don't clock in or out, but I be damned if you should miss a formation or report, that gives someone the grounds to take more time or money away from you.
How many people in the civilian market have to sign for 4.8 million dollars worth of equipment that they barely see and really don't know what half the stuff is... I did as a SSG.
{If you've made it this far in my post, I'm proud of you. }
I'm just saying why do we sale ourselves short in what we do. I make $51,000 a year base and total is $79000 (according to the calculator) but manage a future program that will cost millions of dollars to start and maintain.
I've gotten job offers that agree to give me 30 days off (includes sick leave and three weeks of vacation) that I can cumulate for four years, while I make 2.5 times what my base is now and have a matching 401K.

If the civilian market continues to give, give, give, and military compensation grows by 1.6% a year ($71 a month) what is going to happen to the files and ranks of the Soldiers that just fought for the last 14 years, that are still at it. The Civilian and Military gap is large and only getting further away. The people care now, but in the future, out of war or threats of terror, will they care as much... I don't think so.
I'm saying that as the economy grows, so will the bills. The civilian market is growing by 2.1% ($93 a month) that drives expense, which puts us back in the hole eventually. It would be nice to see a junior Soldier be able to support his family and take a nice vacation once in while without worrying about bills.
I'm not asking that I make $80,000 a year and benefits, but I ask to stay at or right about the civilian job rates. As they ask me to do more and more all the time. If the Representatives and President can fatten their pockets more and more, why are we getting less the left overs? They are doing selfless government work for the greater good too, right? They volunteered for their undertaking, such as I have. All the while the tough choices they have to make, they do a super panel or higher a third party agency to "look it over".
The military personnel are not the waste of government dollars, so why are we so short to discredit ourselves. Perhaps because I don't have a degree that says I'm worth something?
It doesn't make sense, as the GS employees have unions and lobbyist that insure they will get more then 1.6 or that the step value will increase. We don't have that. I'm not sure typically if our votes in most elections even count.
We do have leadership and venues such as this to express our concerns, but hearing PFC James Quaile get shut down in a conversation about his struggles and concerns by a couple of people that have it better or worse is taking away the value of what the junior Enlisted Corps should be screaming.
If trends like this continue where we don't take care of the rank and files like we should, then what will become of them?
Will we have an innovated Enlisted Corps that will overcome a ever growing threat of world enemies as we grow closer in economics and fight over resources like water (coming to you in year 2040).
I'm not saying 2.1 percent is going to make or break us, but the slow chiseling away of what typically brings the lower to middles class is going to be gone and what are we going to be left with?
I understand that the vast majority of the people that swear in are selfless individuals, but at some point we all enter the rat race of life. A Private that is just trying to provide for their family should have to be twisted up in economics of being disadvantage while his elected congressman sends him off to his second war in two years. We have to take care of those in uniform and make it beneficial while selfless, of those that decide to share these burdens of the nation with less then one percent of it's population.