Competition VS Good Old Boy Club

2014-01-20T15:43:51-05:00

I've been in the Army for 4 1/2 years now, give or take. From Day 1 arriving to my first unit, I felt the need to compete. I was a PV2, and I made friends very quickly. My battles and I (all of us, PFC and below haha) all had an understanding that we were to compete for EVERYTHING. Yet, that made none of us hate each other. If I sucked at running, I felt no shame or embarassment going to PVT Joe who ran 9 (exaggeration) min 2MRs. We all competed from promotion, and when one got the best of the other, there were never hard feelings. Nowadays, this seems to be non existent in today's Army. Everyone wants to be in the Good Ol' Boy Club, and we, as Officers and NCOs, allow it to happen. I've seen countless Specialists get to go to the board and pick up 5 the next month...why? They DONT work, ZERO leadership ability, ZERO knowledge of respective MOS, etc. But, because said Specialist is a good guy, he gets "buddy system'd" into everything. My question for all of you is, how do you cope? I've voiced my concerns, and I get told, "Get promoted." Check roger, done that. I got promoted, now, what actions can I take short of continuing to make him look bad? Trying to get a reduction board is like trying to push spaghetti uphill! What do we do as Leaders to stop this?

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 20 at 2014 4:24 PM

2014-01-20T16:24:54-05:00

The good ole boy has been around longer than competition, and in today's environment it seems more prevalent than before, but in reality the club is not the push of the quick promotion system, the dual wars seemed to be at the head of why there were so many newly promoted 5/6s during OIF/OEF, which in my opinion created more problems as you mentioned, no experience/knowledge/leadership ability.

To top it all off, now Congress and the current administration want to dismantle what has been built up in the last decade. Now the competition part has been recreated in another version that now pits every SM against each other to keep their jobs and career, which then could even tap into the good ole boy network for the proper evaluating of who stays and who goes.

Response by SSG Chris Cherry made Jan 20 at 2014 4:56 PM

2014-01-20T16:56:40-05:00

You don't cope. Politics is at the core of the military. Whether or not it deserves to be there is another debate. To get ahead you have to take advantage of any networking opportunities that arise. This might seem like schmoozing but at the end of the day it's all about two things: Who you know and what is best for you.

I absolutely despise the 'get promoted' response. Specifically because I'm in a job where E6 points at anything under 700 is headline news worthy. There are other reasons as well, but that's a bit OT.

I would advise you to avoid making anyone look bad or trying to steal something out from under someone's feet (regardless of rank). While it may have it's intended purpose; there are 2nd and 3rd order effects to take into consideration. You may tarnish your own reputation and lose the trust of your leaders, peers, and subordinates.

The promotion system to SGT and SSG in the Army isn't perfect anyway. The current (and previous) points system are just a convoluted 'check the box' system with the facade of relevancy to competence, ability, and proficiency. The mere fact that you've been in an some location when a mortar landed on the opposite side of the VSP means that you're eligible for a badge that gives you 30 points. Meanwhile, impact awards seem to be a legend of an Army long ago and and slots for military schools are held out of reach until some other arbitrary box has been checked or as a 'tit-for-tat' for attending Jumpmaster, for example.

While this may be bad for good order and discipline, you have to (Read: -->>TACTFULLY<<--) make the system work for you, not the other way around. Getting ahead of the curve in the Military is very similar to doing so in a large corporation. You look out for your interests and take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. Take care of your peers and subordinates and gain the trust and respect of your leaders

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2014 5:15 PM

2014-01-20T17:15:44-05:00

SGT Simpson, you gave the reason for the problem in your comments. "We, as Officers and NCOs, allow it to happen." You cannot influence the entire Army, maybe not your BDE, maybe not your BN, maybe not your Company...But you should be able to affect your Team, your Squad, and your Platoon.

Begin by holding yourself and your Soldiers to standards. If others don't follow, they will at least notice, and you will be proud of the job you have done.

Response by PO2 Christi Ballard made Jan 20 at 2014 6:58 PM

2014-01-20T18:58:57-05:00

And here all this time I thought it was just in the Navy. This is the biggest reason that I didn't stay in past 10 years. I wanted to build MY career from my hard work, not someone else's.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2014 7:01 PM

2014-01-20T19:01:45-05:00

I coped with the perception by objectifying to my 1SG what promotion packets I would sign based on my perception that the newer Soldiers arriving to the unit after the 1SG arrived were getting the school slots and recommendations to board. I do not recall exactly what my standards were but they were along the lines of: meet all the standards for recommendation to the board; SSD was coming on line so initially SSD enrollment was required and later completion was required for my recommendation; attendance at a Soldier/NCO of the Month Board; at least half of your direct reports had to be promotable (I'm not letting you promote out and leave voids in the organization); and there may have been a few other things but I don't completely recall. This created a lot of turmoil initially but after I explained that leaders are already accomplishing these tasks and I personally explained to each Platoon with the 1SG at my side not only did the leaders within the organization comply but they began receiving recognition from the Battalion and Brigade leaders. My answer is to make as many decisions objective as possible. I didn't and I don't concern myself with the 'politics' happening above my responsibility and quickly put folks who are trying to be my buddy in their place. Actions speak louder than words!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2014 9:03 AM

2014-01-21T09:03:39-05:00

I agree that it is different everywhere you go... In my 15 years, I have worked my butt off and was put in positions not because of who I knew, but because of what I knew. In Germany I was a production control ncoic for 2 years and ran the maintenance for 35 helicopters. People knew they could come to me if they needed help or had questions because if I didn't know it - I would find it. Then I came to Fort Eustis, home of TRADOC. You can't throw a rock without hitting a SFC or a SGM so good luck trying to excel. Welcome to land of the politics - you can't get a good job by working hard, you have to know people. It really does something to the morale. I have never seen so many unhappy people in one place.

Response by SFC Rich Carey made Jan 21 at 2014 9:13 AM

2014-01-21T09:13:17-05:00

Don't worry about the Good Ole Boy club. Do your best, regardless, you set the example, the Army needs to go back to "Be All You Can Be". Don't worry what other people are doing. Yes at times it might seem unfair - you didn't get promoted because of what ever. At the end of the day if you can look in the mirror and say, "I did a good job today", then that is great, if you can't, ask what can you do different to make it a good day. I wish I had learned that early on, be your own person.

Since my retirement 6 years ago I have been surprised..... I have received e-mails, messages, and phone calls from individuals thanking me for what I did for them while in the Army, I had no idea I had that kind of impact. WOW!!!! I can't tell you how that makes you feel, that you made a difference in someone's life. So do your best and "Be All You Can Be".

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Jan 21 at 2014 9:27 AM

2014-01-21T09:27:01-05:00

My observation over 25 years as it pertains to promotions ect: 80% networking, 15% hard work and deserving, 5% slips through the cracks. Adapt or get left behind....

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2014 9:40 AM

2014-01-21T09:40:47-05:00

I was never fond of the good old boy club. Go figure :)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2014 10:41 AM

2014-01-21T10:41:48-05:00

You don't cope. If you feel the soldier lacks in certain areas then continue being the example and guide him. Not saying you have to baby him but help him improve before you try to reduce him.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 10:55 AM

2014-01-22T10:55:00-05:00

SGT Simpson, I would say control what you can within your team, squad and/or company. As an NCO it is your duty to properly counsel your soldiers and recommend or not recommend them for promotion. Ensure you document everything on a DA Form 4856 when deemed necessary and build strong counseling packets for your soldiers. Building strong counseling packets will give you something to stand on when you want to recommend or not recommend a soldier for promotion. These packets will allow you to show a pattern of behavior (good or bad) to your senior leaders.