Concealed carry for all current service members (CAC holders)?

2014-11-04T14:30:03-05:00

Should uniformed military be allowed to conceal carry any were in the U.S. with a CAC as a license due to increased threats to military personnel?

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 4 at 2014 2:47 PM

2014-11-04T14:47:02-05:00

As much as I support this I don't think it is something that will ever happen. Right now you can't even carry on post.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-11-04T15:36:25-05:00

I was thinking about this recently, after 2 military personnel in Ohio were shot point blank (in separate instances) after that ISIS announcement to target military. In Maryland, we have to show a "reasonable threat" in order to carry. Is that NOT a reasonable threat??

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Nov 4 at 2014 3:45 PM

2014-11-04T15:45:16-05:00

I believe they should be allowed. Or at least be able to present their cac card and receive a FREE permit to carry.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Nov 4 at 2014 3:58 PM

2014-11-04T15:58:16-05:00

Actually, it's very easy in Ohio for Active Duty to get a CCP, my son just got his. You need to show a current military ID, proof of residency and a current handgun qualification (he used his Army qualification from the 9mm range), along with a money order for (I believe) $60.00. Took about three weeks to receive his permit in the mail.
I don't believe a CAC card in itself will ever be accepted anywhere as a CCP, but I believe more states should streamline the process for active duty.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 4:00 PM

2014-11-04T16:00:38-05:00

I think we should after all we are the most qualified to do so because of our experiences with weapons. However with events such as Ft Hood I have to wonder if its a good idea. Oh yeah, here you go crazy, you can conceal a handgun.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 4:24 PM

2014-11-04T16:24:06-05:00

There should be a federal carry permit for military personnel. Actually probably should be for everyone. They can have federal guidelines like they do for a commercial drivers license. I think the public has a misconception that the police are the best trained to handle the situation, but time will be of the essence. I believe many non law enforcement CCW holders have more time and training with their weapons then officers. Also many have attended tactical courses to improve their skills. So your best chance of survival my be that CCW holder at the moment of the threat.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-11-04T17:02:14-05:00

At one time, I would have insisted that carrying concealed on a military installation was a bad idea. Times have changed. Between Ft. Hood and the Washington Shipyard shooting, and these potential lone wolf threats targeting us because we're military, we need to reevaluate who can carry, when and where, as military personnel.

Is the CAC card the tool to do that? It provides identification to military members, access to computer networks and other controlled areas, but no information about your latest weapons qualification, or any other data that might be used to ascertain your suitability to carry off the reservation, like background checks. The problem with using it as a CCW license is a chain of responsibility issue. What agency verified that you’re ok to carry? Right now, it’s a local (state or county) issue. Can the USA, USN, USMC, or USAF take that on?

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 6:09 PM

2014-11-04T18:09:25-05:00

Fortunately USCG members qualify under the LEOSA but if you are caught concealed carry in a state you're pretty much at the mercy of the officers interpretation of that law.

Something definitive protecting all service members should be written to protect us the same as law enforcement officers. There are lots of people that would like to harm service members, with that being said I believe most states make it very easy to obtain a license for servicemen.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 6:20 PM

2014-11-04T18:20:38-05:00

If you are going to let every member of the armed forces have CCDW's I think there needs to be some sort of qualification for those members who aren't issued pistols. Make it at their own expense (US Gov't would never pay for everyone to pistol qual) but I don't agree with GIVING every servicemember a CCDW just on the merit that they are in the service. Just like there are limitations on civilian CCDW holders, there should be limits on servicemember's as well (basically have the same regulations).

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 10:46 PM

2014-11-04T22:46:57-05:00

I don't think concealed carry should require a permit. I consider it an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Nov 5 at 2014 1:56 PM

2014-11-05T13:56:58-05:00

Uniformed personnel should not carry concealed.

They should be issued weapons and carry them openly.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Nov 5 at 2014 2:05 PM

2014-11-05T14:05:51-05:00

I would like to see a minimum of commissioned officers, warrants, and NCOs carrying a Sidearms on duty on post. I would make the mental leap that all soldiers are armed while on duty on post...just like when we are in theater/ deployments. Yes, I know there will be some that go haywire (just like overseas....but at least everyone else will be able to defend themselves).

I would like to see All military personnel who are properly trained and qualified authorized to carry off duty concealed on and off post with only their Military ID.

The off duty carry...in almost every state, Soldiers can get a CCW/CCL for off post carry anyways. Some states even reduce the minimum age (as low as 18) for Military Personnel. If we approve the on post carry (assuming some type of training first), then we would know who is doing it. Yes, there will be people to abuse it/ do something stupid/ go haywire...but again at least we will be able to defend ourselves. Also the ones who would abuse it/ do something stupid/ go haywire are doing it now anyways, just illegally and without our knowledge.

Commence the beatings...

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Nov 5 at 2014 4:34 PM

2014-11-05T16:34:54-05:00

I think that military members should be allowed to take a course which allows on and off base concealed carry. It should be federal level approval, issued at the local level. I currently have NO CCL because my LES says I am an Illinois resident (for tax purposes), however, I own a home, have 2 cars, a motorcycle, an ATV, and a camper registered in MT...so the local sheriff department says I am an "out of state" and do not qualify. I have talked to other county departments and have been told that in the same situation, if I lived in their county, I would have it no problems. I can't get UTAH, because they say I must already have a CCL from the state of residence (mailing address) and when I included a letter describing my issue they denied me anyway. THANKFULLY, I can legally carry in the car on trips and I open carry when in the forest/woods/camping/fishing/etc.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 4:36 PM

2014-11-05T16:36:45-05:00

Can you honestly tell me that you would want every Soldier that you have seen during your career carrying a handgun 24/7? I've seen some Soldiers that I don't trust with a vacuum cleaner or a mop and a bucket.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 4:37 PM

2014-11-05T16:37:50-05:00

First off, I am a huge proponent of our 2nd amendment rights. To answer this question though, I would have to say "no" for one reason. There are service members who have been convicted of DV and assault. These members are legally not allowed to have a firearm, but they do have a CAC card.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Nov 5 at 2014 9:16 PM

2014-11-05T21:16:59-05:00

No because there are a lot of people who get a CAC that are not AD and do not have the training.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 9:37 PM

2014-11-05T21:37:47-05:00

How would this differ from Federal employees with CAC cards? I just recently joined the NRA and looking to take classes for CCP. My office building was just blocks from Navy Yard. The shooter stayed at the hotel next to my building. Perhaps if a federal employee with CCP could have helped

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 10:35 PM

2014-11-05T22:35:08-05:00

I know in Georgia your CAC is your concealed carry. I went ahead and got the actual license just to be safe and for when I travel, it is reciprocal in a lot of states.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 2:01 PM

2014-11-06T14:01:55-05:00

I would certainly hope that more than the CAC would be needed to establish that a person can operate a firearm without endangering themselves or (innocent) others. I know that many on here are in the Army and may be under the illusion that everyone in the military has had significant training/experience in safe operations of firearms. That is simply not correct.

Although I have become reasonably proficient in the last five years, during my first 14 years in the Navy Reserve I had fired 10 rounds from a pistol in Navy training. I had fired an additional 50+ rounds at a local firing range. I fired more pistol rounds the first day of weapons training at Camp Atterbury in 2009 than I had fired in the rest of my life. Camp Atterbury was also the first time I fired a rifle of any sort (not strictly applicable to the question of concealed carry, I realize).

I don't think it is unreasonable to use the CAC as a basis for establishing someone's status as responsible citizen, but I would hope there would be some certification of the ability to safely operate a weapon. There's also the question of whether one would extend this privilege to government employees and contractors who hold CACs.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 2:05 PM

2014-11-06T14:05:14-05:00

I think it's a great idea. Obviously they will want us to take a class, but that's a small price to pay to protect ourselves, our families, and our battle buddies.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Nov 8 at 2014 2:06 PM

2014-11-08T14:06:49-05:00

**EDIT**

I created a new discussion to post the outcome of advice from this answer, a skeleton letter to congress for anyone to use, check it out here:

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/arm-the-armed-forces

"Arm the Armed Forces!"

I think this is worth doing. I offer these 10 points to be edited and improved on by commentary. Then we use these points (lets try to keep it below 10) to recommend simple policy improvement to our newly elected congress, I propose we debate for at least a week then start writing. Lets leverage our knowledge and strength as a community to improve force protection for our military and the public at large.
Simple policy:
1. Yearly pistol qualifications required (live fire Joint combat pistol course to be established)
2. "A" for "armed" added to CAC right below name
*3. Option available at command discretion for all service-members and mandatory for line Officers, SNCOs and those serving in a Law Enforcement capacity.
4. Open-Carry mandatory and an inspect-able item when on duty (normal workday not just OOD etc.)
*5. Concealed carry optional when off duty with an "A" ROE is defense of self and others from deadly force ONLY.
*6. Weapons will be under direct control of service-members at all times or unloaded and double-locked when on Government Property.
7. Negligent Discharges and other related weapons crimes or conduct infractions punishable with mandatory NJP, forfeiture of pay and required re-qualification option for elevation to Courts-Martial, repeat offenses subject to BCDs.
*8. Active Duty and Reservist Service Members will now be covered under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) Federal Law, or a parallel law will be created explicitly for them. The US attorney's office is charged to defend this protection against any legal challenges.
*9. Mental Heath/Behavioral objections from any medical officer or any member in chain of command will immediately suspend authority/requirement pending review by a board comprised of command, medical and mental health officers, suspension of requirement is independent of prohibition on owning personal weapons-this will be handled under pre-existing regulations, suspension pending review does not automatically bear on proficiency evaluations or promotions
*10. When on Government Property, Service-members granted authority will furnish their own weapons in the standard service caliber, weapons will be semi-automatic, in good working order, and will be fed by standard sized magazines (neither extended beyond the magazine well nor reduced in capacity).

Edits added on suggestions indicated by "*" (combined 3 and 4 to save numbers, 5 added ROE, 6,9, 10 added 8 language cleaned up):

Arm the Armed Forces! | RallyPoint

The outcome of the discussion "Concealed carry for CAC holders?" by [~222148:SGT Bernard Boyer III]. Below follows my skeleton letter to congress, based on the edits RP members have suggested to the 10 points. Anyone and everyone is welcome to edit and personalize the letter for their own use in writing to their congressional representatives. We sent a mass email on 3 January, the swearing in of the new congress, now it's a free for all. You...

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2014 2:11 PM

2014-11-08T14:11:07-05:00

Ok I've herd a lot of great comments...what if a cac card would be the basis accompanied along with a conceal carry/deadly force training. The cac card would be a federal ccp that way service members would be covered all over the USA since some ccp's not reciprocal to all states, the enemy is bringing the fight to us so we must stand ready to protect ourselves and end this the day before yesterday!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2014 2:31 PM

2014-11-08T14:31:48-05:00

I'd say no. There are CHL/CCW procedures in most states. Some even have MIL discounts. I've seen way too many SMs with serious behavioral health issues (but no S3 profile) to support a generic CAC = CHL/CCW policy.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2014 4:08 PM

2014-11-08T16:08:33-05:00

Good question...I think it's time to consider a federal CC license...that is truly the question...or solution. What other groups are being targeted though? Blacks, Chriatians, Jews, Muslims, do they all deserve to have CC license because of the increased threat? I do think we should always carry, sort of like a Sheriff or State Police, they are obligated to carry off-duty. We do need to realize however that there is much immaturity in the military and this should be limited to NCOS, Officers, Warrants, and exclude E1-E3...especially since a get 22 is the age to buy handguns in many states.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Nov 8 at 2014 5:54 PM

2014-11-08T17:54:31-05:00

Well we do have that part of the oath that states to protect from all enemies foreign and domestic, and well if we're not allowed to carry in a way to protect ourselves and others are we living up to that aspect of the oath of enlistment and the oath of office for Officers. So yes we should provide the training to concealed carry.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Nov 8 at 2014 7:25 PM

2014-11-08T19:25:02-05:00

I keep my CAC in my wallet when I carry it. I don't know if that counts as concealed or not but I think I should be allowed to do that.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Nov 8 at 2014 7:46 PM

2014-11-08T19:46:51-05:00

I totally agree! I just had a discussion with the state of Washington about the CCW. They wanted to charge me 52.50 because I needed fingerprints. I told them that I currently have a TS/SCI clearance and my fingerprints were all over in the federal database. It didn't matter, it still cost me 52.50. I think we should fall under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Nov 8 at 2014 7:47 PM

2014-11-08T19:47:40-05:00

I tend to agree with LTC Paul Heinlein as long as the service member has a Concealed Carry Deadly Weapon License for the state they reside/stationed. Additionally, the service member should have a current weapon (handgun) qualification.....the chain of command should be notified of those that intend to carry. Mine license is through the state of KY and here's the requirements:

http://governors.e-archives.ky.gov/_govpatton/dec_2003/gov.state.ky.us/cabinets/kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm

Kentucky State Police: Concealed Deadly Weapons

Kentucky State Police Concealed Carry of Deadly Weapons Information

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2014 7:57 PM

2014-11-08T19:57:34-05:00

I'm all for that, lets do it !!!!

Response by SFC Dave Joslin made Nov 8 at 2014 8:05 PM

2014-11-08T20:05:29-05:00

Absolutely not, a CAC card is not a ticket to responsibility...simple, think of all of the soldiers facing UCMJ - or your worst leadership nightmare - they have a CAC card. Now, would you want them carrying concealed?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 2:55 AM

2014-11-09T02:55:20-05:00

"Alaska's laws do not prohibit anyone 21 or older who may legally possess a firearm from carrying it concealed. A special permit is not required."

I'm not for everyone carrying on or off duty, but if you want that freedom, feel free to head north to this arctic tundra called Alaska! No laws against concealed weapons. Just about everyone carries in their vehicles...not to protect ourselves against lunatics or violent persons. I'm against animal cruelty and hunting, but if you find yourself in a situation where a bear or moose is charging you, it might be prudent to protect yourself and your family.

Response by SPC Steve Church made Nov 9 at 2014 6:08 AM

2014-11-09T06:08:24-05:00

Yes, I think current military and veterans (who are allowed by federal law) should be allowed to carry. Threats to the nation are increasing and we all took the oath. If carrying overseas is mandatory, carry at home should be optional.

Response by SCPO Michael Poirier made Nov 9 at 2014 10:04 AM

2014-11-09T10:04:58-05:00

I don't think we should just stop with uniformed military, I recommend having all active, retired be armed, many retires are on the bases from time to time, and I hope most of active, and retired already have a concealed handgun license, The federal government just needs to allow us to carry!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 10:41 AM

2014-11-09T10:41:26-05:00

Hell yes... One of my battles died in the Ft. Hood shooting, sad day for America. If there were armed personnel I guarantee lives would've been saved.

Response by PO1 Mike Wolff made Nov 9 at 2014 12:47 PM

2014-11-09T12:47:21-05:00

I would've liked this to have been a reality years ago, but bravo zulu on working up and discussing how this might be implemented! I was fortunate to have qualified on a USMC combat course in Panama one of the times that my ship pulled in to Rodman back in 1993 or 1994. We spent a lot of time in that region cruising with a Coast Guard LEDET on board, and they were boarding a lot of small vessels in those days. Just about 6 years ago, I decided to apply for a CCW here in VA, and this experience was sufficient to meet VA the county court's criteria for competency, and issued my permit. If I were to contrast the process between VA, and MA where I acquired my first permit to own (not a CCW) a handgun, there is such a wide chasm in attitudes (and laws) about competent people carrying concealed, that I think a national / federal standard makes a lot of sense for our military personnel today, as they are increasingly targeted domestically (even on base - remember Ft. Hood). Thank you brothers and sisters for all that you have done and continue to do for us all!

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Nov 9 at 2014 4:12 PM

2014-11-09T16:12:52-05:00

Yes, providing they have a clean military record.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 4:15 PM

2014-11-09T16:15:26-05:00

No. I know too many people that I work/worked with that should never ever touch, let alone carry, a weapon. Letting someone conceal carry just because they have a CAC would just cause too many problems. If you're that worried about your safety go ahead and go through the proper licensing classes and qualification and prove you know how to handle a firearm. Unfortunately it seems like the military is willing to hand anyone a weapon, even if they can't qualify, and I don't want those people anywhere near me.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Nov 9 at 2014 4:38 PM

2014-11-09T16:38:57-05:00

I think this idea is the right idea, but there is more to it. Capt Richard I P. has the right idea. The CAC plus many other requirements are important, and many of those requirements can vary from state to state. Proficiency and training for what will be seen by civilians as deputized military members will be important as well. Also keep in mind that each of the services has different qualification requirements. Believe me, you do not want an Air Force engineer like me--who qualified via PowerPoint--using my Air Force weapons qualification to defend you in a shopping mall.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 4:42 PM

2014-11-09T16:42:49-05:00

Terrorist have stuck from the inside of our country already showing they are here. We know their targets are military and their families, so yes all cac holders should have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 5:09 PM

2014-11-09T17:09:05-05:00

I believe we should, If your CAC card says active duty or retired. Should there be a course of training? Yes, like all actions the military takes there must be a qualification. The type of weapon carried needs to be stated as a pistol or handgun, semi auto. You know it must be put out because someone will try to carry a rifle, uzi or something ridiculous. The issue I fore see is soldiers who leave in the barracks and regulations stating their weapons must be stored in the arms room.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Nov 9 at 2014 6:04 PM

2014-11-09T18:04:35-05:00

Haha what a crazy question to ask...

I was an E-5 living in NCO barrack's on post, and I wasn't allowed to possess a firearm (Had to keep it in the Arms room). If the Army doesn't allow me, an NCO, to possess a firearm, it is more then obvious they trust the lower enlisted even less.

Our Army doesn't even trust us carrying weapons on our own posts..... where would the surge of trust come to them to let us walk around elsewhere with weapons...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 6:52 PM

2014-11-09T18:52:17-05:00

While this has been addressed before, what I would like to see happen regarding this is much like the DoD paying for an approved rider safety course for motorcyclists, have a mandatory CCW class for concealed carry holders, and possibly some advanced training on top of that since every single individual in the military has qualified with one or more weapons. Therefore, it should be an easy go to for SM s to be able to go to a local course where its legal to carry concealed, get the class, and then go get the license reimbursed by the DoD.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 6:50 PM

2014-11-09T18:50:14-05:00

What happens though when you forget your pin and get locked out of your CAC?

Response by CPT Michael Moffeit made Nov 9 at 2014 7:10 PM

2014-11-09T19:10:24-05:00

I am a concealed carry license holder, and waving a wand and allowing EVERYONE with a Military ID to instantly conceal ANYWHERE is a bad idea in my opinion. It goes in with states' individual laws and regulations as well as the pure competence to be able to conceal carry. I think the military could give hands-on training that could be used to satisfy that requirement many states have (i.e. shooting proficiency) but there still needs to be SOME regulation. I just picture a lot of problems. On that note, WHY are we STILL not allowing those WITH CCLs carry while on post? That, to me, needs to be a first step.

Response by CPL David Riopelle Spencer made Nov 9 at 2014 7:39 PM

2014-11-09T19:39:58-05:00

Probably be a good idea to cut down on work place violence. I carry everyday but never had to pull it yet. Happy for that cause I'd use it if it comes out. Makes me sick that some think that America's number 1 terrorist threat is the Veteran some say. I personally feel that's not correct and disrespectful for those of us that served with honor.

Response by SFC Louis Jordan made Nov 9 at 2014 8:14 PM

2014-11-09T20:14:40-05:00

NO! This is a bad ideal that will get many officers and soldier in trouble. With back to back hardship assignment, any one could have a bad day. Flavor that with PTSD, substance abuse, marital/partner pressures, and so forth, it's a recipe for wrongful shooting, want-to-be heroes, brandishing a firearm which is a crime in the civilian world. Military Police is the law enforcers and we should not place them in a questionable position of thinking if this person is armed or not. Did anyone do an assessment of 'what if's!.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 8:22 PM

2014-11-09T20:22:14-05:00

Here in GA your Active Duty Id Card is your CCW license. I went ahead and got a GA license cause if you go in to AL/FL or any other state you have to have an actual license.

Now just cause you have a CAC don't men you actually know how to handle the weapon you are carrying.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 8:42 PM

2014-11-09T20:42:30-05:00

I hold a concealed carry permit in 2 states(FL and WA, no reciprocity sadly). I already requal with the M9, M16 and shotgun every year, sometimes more often and my personal concealed carry is the Beretta 92A1 which is simply an M9 with an accessory point, removable sights and a captive spring. I am required to be armed when on watch even in our homeport in the US. I've been doing this for 16 years now yet I am disarmed from the moment I leave my house and arrive at work an hour later and then get handed a gun(that's usually had shoddy maintenance and is unreliable), it boggles my mind as to what logic thought that through...

Leadership would be well advised and this isn't intended as a threat of any kind, just the experienced voice of warning, that if the random shootings and threats continue, eventually our personnel will make the choice to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6. I don't know if they still teach it in advanced officer leadership schools but they used to say "Never give an order you know will not be obeyed". This is rapidly becoming one of those cases.

I get that high security areas need to be screened for weapons, I'd have no issue personally with locking it in my car as I'm already inside 2 perimeters before I get to the parking lot. It's the period of vulnerability from my house to that parking lot that has me concerned. Base shootings have so far been in the low security areas anyways.

With regards to threats elsewhere, I've personally had 2 random guys from Somalia try to friend me on facebook in the last month. Fortunately, I'm not that stupid. If I'm not going near the base, I'm armed, period, as is my wife. Oh, and we turned down the "mandatory" active duty rear window parking sticker our base tried to make us put on our cars, I'll take a ticket first. The person who thought those up needs to sit in front of the DoDs ATFP training powerpoint on repeat for 24 hours with his or her eyelids taped open.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 9:57 PM

2014-11-09T21:57:25-05:00

I definitely like the idea but there needs to be a screening process and at minimum, company commander approval. I have some Marines in my unit I can barely trust in the controlled environment of a range and would definitely not trust in an uncontrolled environment.

Just like all other personal firearms, a service member's personal side arm would need to be stored at the armory or secured in there residence (for those with families) when they are not carrying. Enough shenanigans happen in the barracks without firearms being invovled. Arming the DNCO or OOD would be preferred for security of the barracks.

Either a separate carry certification or a special identifying mark on the CAC card would need to be instituted so the MPs and civilian LEOs can easily identify who is authorized to carry.

Service members who wish to carry should have to go through a training course oriented to concealed carry and defensive firearms usage and included a knowledge test covering firearms safety and local laws governing the carry and use of defensive weapons. Service member exemptions to civilian laws would have to be approved by the states themselves. The curse should also include a marksmanship test to ensure that the service member is proficient with the weapon they intend to carry. This marksmanship certification is not to be a substitute for the service pistol qualification.

The service member should also have to register with PMO if they intend to carry on base.

I could see the process going something like this:
1. Commanders approval (required before enrolling in the concealed carry course)
2. Service member's concealed carry course (satisfactory completion required before registering with PMO)
3. Registration with PMO (requires Commander's letter of Approval and Concealed Carry Course completion certificate)
A. Either PMO will issue a Concealed Carry permit or certification of registration to be taken to the ID card office to issue the CAC with concealed carry certification marking

The concealed carry course should be offered at the service member's expense. If the course is failed the service member should have to wait 30 days before enrolling again.

This is definitely a very touchy subject and while I would like to see it happen, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 4:38 AM

2014-11-10T04:38:14-05:00

I've read most of the comments here. As a former active duty Soldier, a National Guard Soldier, and now a Reserve Soldier (as well as a concealed carry permit holder in SD and MN) I would say "yes." We've had more weapons training as a whole than many civilians and know ROE better than most as well. In the civilian realm I was trained not to play the hero and confront a perp vs. drawing my Glock and trying to save the day unless the threat is well, really throwing a threat. Convenience store clerks are mostly taught to just turn over the money than risk their lives over the cash register as insurance companies will do what they are paid to do after the fact. It's all about keeping your head and analyzing the situation. On post/base, well, I know we kept loaded M4s and M9s around while deployed so what the heck, why not keep that mentality while at home? I say "yes."

Response by Sgt Angelo Dominick made Nov 10 at 2014 10:41 AM

2014-11-10T10:41:36-05:00

I believe they should be able to Givin the times where in.with the right training,

Response by SSG Jamil Spruill made Nov 10 at 2014 11:57 AM

2014-11-10T11:57:28-05:00

I personally disagree because not every with a cac card is responsible and what happens when a disagreement happens in the work place and a young soldier shoots his superiors or himself? I think to get a concealed carry a soldier should attend handling training and attain a civilian license first then they can register that on their cac if the weapon is registered on the installation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 12:24 PM

2014-11-10T12:24:52-05:00

Capt Richard I P.: I read your ten points. I have a few questions: I'm a gun owner, I'm now retired from the military (26+ years, with the last 10 in Special Operations). I'm now a "civilian". I'm also a DoD Contractor. I work on base. I have a Contractor CAC Card. I am hoping to become a GS Department of Defense or Department of the Army Civilian.

What do you propose for Civilians who work for the DoD or other defense agencies?
What do you propose for Retirees?
What do you propose for Contractors, especially those who are not "temporary" contractors (that is, they provide continued service to the DoD, rather than they are there to build new barracks and then move on).
Last, what about family members? My wife, for example, was the 2009 Fort Bragg Women's Trap Champion. She has taken it upon herself to become an expert in weapons, and she has a CCW permit issued by our state. In fact, my wife is a much better shot with a shotgun against a high-rate of speed moving target with a shotgun than I am (but I'm better with a rifle and pistol than she is). I believe she has just as much of a right to defend herself from evil as I do, and in fact, one of the goals of terrorists is to terrorize by killing not just Soldiers, but specifically targeting their families. ESPECIALLY if those Soldiers are deployed where not only can a terrorist destroy something good, but also force the military to take a Soldier off the battlefield (Afghanistan for example) because now that Soldier has to come home and bury his family - let alone deal with the grief of such a tragedy - so he/she will be out of the battle for a minimum of 6-12 months or probably longer.

Both my daughter's can shoot as well.

How would you propose we handle those situations?

Thanks.

V/R

Marc

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Nov 10 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-11-10T13:15:11-05:00

HELL YES

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 1:47 PM

2014-11-10T13:47:55-05:00

Yes.

I think that a federal level (read standardized) concealed carry should be developed so that reciprocity among the states doesn't become an issue.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Nov 10 at 2014 4:23 PM

2014-11-10T16:23:36-05:00

So, I ready through everything. I think that the firearm should be the choice both style (semiauto vs wheel) and caliber. I have a .380 and a .45 that I carry, but I know others that carry the .38 or .357 revolver.
The other part is range qualification... The AF tends to do range prior to deployment OR PCS to an overseas location.... I have gone YEARS without seeing a military range. I think that they need to prove competance, every year or 3, but working the logistics of range time could be difficult.

Response by SPC(P) Samantha Moore made Nov 10 at 2014 4:32 PM

2014-11-10T16:32:31-05:00

I personally absolutely would love to carry all day/every day. But maybe limit it to service members who have at LEAST been through CCW or CCL, maybe those who are of a certain age, rank, or have permission under the discretion of the commander?

I don't know what controls have to be implemented in order for the pros to outweigh the cons.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 4:30 PM

2014-11-10T16:30:55-05:00

I believe under the right circumstances and with correct implementation.....this can be achieved. We need to be able to have the means of protecting ourselves. How many more lives need to be lost? Im stationed on Hood and have seen it firsthand.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 5:23 PM

2014-11-10T17:23:36-05:00

It should not be automatic for a military member to carry a firearm just because you have a CAC card, and I say this because these people need training in order to know what they are doing. I can say that from my experience in the military there are a lot of people who can not shot to save their lives, and throw them into a stressful situation and the chances of them actually hitting their target decreases even more. If you meets the standards of the state you wish to get a permit in, then get a state issued permit and if you don't then take that time to do what you need to do in order to meet those requirements. Now carrying on post is a different matter on it's own, and I think that it will never happen. Even with the implementation of LEOSA when it happens, will not allow MP's to carry on post.

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Nov 10 at 2014 7:04 PM

2014-11-10T19:04:52-05:00

one word yes

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 9:39 PM

2014-11-10T21:39:31-05:00

I think it's a good idea. As long as someone is properly trained and fully qualified there should be no problems. You never know what psychopath is gonna walk around the corner and I for one would rather stand my ground and fight rather than becoming another victim in the news.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 10:24 PM

2014-11-10T22:24:09-05:00

This is an excellent proposition,

Personally I would be happy if we, as veterans, were even allowed to carry on base with a CCW. It astounds me that we are required to carry a weapon on bases in Afghanistan (those who have deployed know there is low chance of needing to use it on base) and yet we are not even allowed to carry on bases back in the states, despite multiple on base shootings that have occurred. Someone who has the intent to come onto base and commit mass murder does not care if there is a "rule" barring them from bringing that weapon onto post. I will admit it prevents someone who just suddenly 'snaps' from having immediate access to a weapon, but should their altered state of mind last longer than a few moments, it would be fairly easy for them to drive off base, retrieve a weapon, and return.

Ultimately I don't understand why we are authorized to defend ourselves from enemies abroad but not at home.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 12:40 AM

2014-11-11T00:40:36-05:00

I've been saying this for years. Massachusetts is a headache when it comes to doing it.. both physically and fiscally. With the required "safety class" and the application fee you're looking at $200-300. That's IF you live in a town with a police chief that issues them. There are some communities where the police chief will deny you and make you take it before a judge. Then you're looking at that too.

Whether you're actively serving or retired, I think that should act as your concealed carry permit regardless of where you are in the country.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 12:51 AM

2014-11-11T00:51:01-05:00

I agree with LTC Paul Heinlein. In order for them to carry they need to show competence in their ability to carry and use it. They should qualify, take the concealed carry course and maybe and advanced course. I have seen too many people in the military that think they know what they are doing and how to handle and shoot when they actually don't.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 6:50 AM

2014-11-11T06:50:19-05:00

Bad idea. We will start seeing a rise in negligent discharges for sure.

Response by SGT Andrew Boffen made Nov 11 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-11-11T12:06:48-05:00

Why just cac holders??? Vets are targets as well and probably more susceptible to an attack

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 1:14 PM

2014-11-11T13:14:23-05:00

Grate question....and yes

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 2:44 PM

2014-11-11T14:44:53-05:00

As much as I would like to say yes, I don't agree. Despite individuals being in the military I feel that the military does not provide adequate legal training, nor is the use of pistols covered in BCT or AIT for many MOS'S in the army. However I believe a soldier who was take a civilian run conceal carry class in conjunction with being in the military should be able to carry, anywhere, anytime.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 3:35 PM

2014-11-11T15:35:50-05:00

Defiantly

Response by Lt Col Matthew Wenzel made Nov 11 at 2014 3:51 PM

2014-11-11T15:51:16-05:00

I say yes; not because we are military and have special standing, but because we all have had basic training with a sidearm. Instead of using our CAC as a permit, perhaps it could be used to obtain a state permit. Speaking of state permits, these should have reciprocity agreements with every US state, territory and protectorate; just like a driver license. Now for the veterans and retirees, showing your DD214 (in place of a CAC or ID card) should be enough to obtain one of the state licenses.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 4:59 PM

2014-11-11T16:59:04-05:00

NO ! There are some people in uniform that I wouldn't trust carrying my lunch nevermind a concealed weapon but the PC police make it far too hard to get them out these days.
I don't want to have to pat a soldier down before administering a disciplinary counseling or worse.
The LEOSA Act amendments will soon allow credentialed MP's to carry concealed nationwide due to be recognized as federal law enforcement but there are even some MP's that shouldn't be.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Nov 11 at 2014 6:16 PM

2014-11-11T18:16:23-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member , This is a truly interesting idea. I will present an entirely different position than most would expect. This MAY open up Army CID, NCIS, and Air Force OSI into investigating incidents involving firearms off post. The nexus for Military Criminal Investigative Organizations (MCIOs) to become involved is involvement of a military member as either a suspect (subject) or victim or other incident for which the uniformed services have an interest. I am not a lawyer, but I surmise if these weapons were USG property, issued from the arms room on hand receipt, and if the end user is lawfully carrying based on his or her status as a service member, then those respective MCIOs would be legally able to be involved in the investigation.

There would likely immediately be a DoD level policy which addressed when an MCIO would become involved and which also demanded joint or concurrent investigations as opposed to an independent one, but none the less an interesting prospect.

Which brings me to asking questions. Would your proposal be the aforementioned personnel carry military owned and issued weapons? Would there be a change to the training and qualification requirement for the personnel who were armed? How would we establish and what would the rules of engagement be? My thought is protection of life only so we could avoid most claims of a posse comitatus violation.

In regards to your original question, should military personnel be allowed to carry based on the CAC as a Concealed Carry Permit, my response is YES, with training. I find significant validity and trustworthiness in the majority of NCOs, Warrant Officers, and Officers. Junior enlisted may, please note I said may, need to be further screened prior to making allowance to enact this policy.

I wish this would be enacted and further, I think in most instances like Federal Law Enforcement Officers, military members should be able to fly armed as well. The additional and unknown element of having armed personnel on aircraft, would make any attack similar to those on 9/11 be a huge risk.

Great idea!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 11:03 PM

2014-11-11T23:03:08-05:00

Like to see a bill to let AD E-6's and above that are 21 years and older or retired to be able to carry concealed on post and all 50 states this includes ( NG and Reserves )BUT one problem with this, it's called the White House.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 11:13 PM

2014-11-11T23:13:59-05:00

Some places all you need is a license. I do know there's alot of people out there that shouldn't have guns....what I do know is it wouldn't hurt to have some good soldiers carrying you just never know these days what will happen or where

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 11:34 PM

2014-11-11T23:34:57-05:00

Absolutely, millitary personnel should be able to have a Concealed License as long as a PQS form was written so the person trying to get it would be able to complete the proper training. The more protection the better while out in the civilian world and crazy people.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 4:52 AM

2014-11-12T04:52:50-05:00

The big issue you're going to run into with this idea is federal vs state laws. Most states have conceal/carry laws that require certain training/certificates and are usually not valid across state lines. Allowing military personnel to conceal/carry just for being military would require a federal standard be established. Then you'd have the whole federal law vs state law argument.

Having said that, I think that being military does not make you any more qualified than the average citizen to handle a firearm. In regards to protection, we as federal acitve duty service members do not have the authority to enforce local laws. We are a force charged to protect the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and should have the right to self defense. But that doesn't make us a police force.

The question that should be asked is what would be accomplished by allowing service members to conceal/carry on and off duty? Would it reduce the current threat to military personnel while off duty? Probably. Would it reinforce certain negative stigma that verterans already face? Probably. Just some things to think about.

Response by PO1 James Capasso made Nov 12 at 2014 9:27 AM

2014-11-12T09:27:06-05:00

Not all people with CAC cards Military or have the proper training. If Military is allowed to carry with CAC card then they should carry open. Why hide it, if it's due to safety on base.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 9:36 AM

2014-11-12T09:36:08-05:00

I would like to see this happen in all 50 states.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 9:53 AM

2014-11-12T09:53:21-05:00

When you craft up the language, you should not only send it to your congressional representatives but also upload it to https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/. The petition will remain "hidden" until it has at least 150 signatures within 30 days. To require a response by the White House, the petition much reach 100,000 signatures in that same 30 day period.

Response by COL Paul Ciminelli made Nov 12 at 2014 11:27 AM

2014-11-12T11:27:29-05:00

I would like Congress to extend HR-218(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act) to all serving military and honorably retired military. This is legislation already in place and working and with little modification could be extended to all of us.

Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of persons—the "qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired law enforcement officer"—to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain exceptions.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 12:31 PM

2014-11-12T12:31:39-05:00

As long as the military makes the Soldiers meet the requirements for classes and paperwork for each state they are in; the CAC and training a Soldier receives is more than adequate than any of the CC processes I went through. For those states that are just not Gun Rights advocates; that of course would be there call to opt-out. I know the biggest problem with this would be the Civilian leadership thinking about all those soldiers armed across the US and the unfounded belief that there could be some kin of military Junta...yes; I am sure the folks in Congress are just that near-sighted. Truly, the more our representatives are non-serving citizens the more distanced from the services they become. Can't blame them; they get most of their ideas from Liberal colleges and the movies; I would be scared too if I was in their shoes ;)

Response by Cpl Tom Williams made Nov 12 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-11-12T12:39:24-05:00

Only for military, not government employees. They're trained in weapons safety.

Response by CW4 Scott Kjendlie made Nov 12 at 2014 2:01 PM

2014-11-12T14:01:56-05:00

I am in favor of this happening. I believe it would benefit conduct on post, as well as it could deter from actions against servicemembers. However, who knows if this will ever make it beyond a Rallypoint discussion question.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 2:41 PM

2014-11-12T14:41:55-05:00

Absolutely.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 3:34 PM

2014-11-12T15:34:12-05:00

I agree with everyone's thoughts and opinions. I personally have CCP even though Georgia does not require U.S. Military to have one the Military ID is good

Response by Sgt Samantha Jee made Nov 12 at 2014 3:49 PM

2014-11-12T15:49:53-05:00

Yes. Even in a small town, it would help if the NG boys are able to conceal carry with their CAC as licenses. I believe it would help a lot.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 6:20 PM

2014-11-12T18:20:56-05:00

Capt Richard I P. and SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member This has turned into an amazing thread! Thank you Boyer for proposing it and thank you Sir for being the brains behind the 10 points. We just need to get this rolling now! "Arm the Armed Forces"!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 9:10 PM

2014-11-12T21:10:50-05:00

this has been my argument for quite some time now. we make up .5% of the population and Most of us have a good head on our shoulders so why not allow us to protect our family's the way that we protect our country? now i feel that you should not be able to carry if you have NJP on your record. lets keep the dummies safe from themselves.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 10:26 PM

2014-11-12T22:26:45-05:00

Absolutely. I feel that all members of the military should be allowed to carry - specifically to/from and on military installations. The growing threat from ISIL/ISIS is real and we need to stop pretending that it isn't. If we can be responsible enough and trusted with the security of our nation, then why can't we be trusted for our own personal security. I carry off duty either open or concealed, but I also feel that it is necessary more than ever when going to and from work.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 4:39 AM

2014-11-13T04:39:56-05:00

I think most people would be surprised as to how many states make it almost that easy as long as you pay the fee. I personally like open carry due to the deterrence factor. An ounce of prevention... just my two cents

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 1:04 PM

2014-11-13T13:04:54-05:00

I do Believe soldier should be able to conceal carry as they see fit. My only issue is if they have mental issues that they are under treatment for, if they are brand new or never been around fied to be well trained with them first and varified first. Other than that us carry is no different than when we are over seas or on base doing weapons qual.

Response by SFC(P) Jonathan P. made Nov 13 at 2014 1:05 PM

2014-11-13T13:05:31-05:00

I believe this should be permitted it is our 2 amendment to bear arms.

Response by SFC Andrew Heil made Nov 13 at 2014 3:49 PM

2014-11-13T15:49:53-05:00

As I mentioned earlier about contacting the Illinois State Police who oversees the CCW and retired police officer conceal carry, here is what I was looking for.

"As military you would get 8 hours of credit towards the 16 hours. You
would only qualify as law enforcement if you were given the equivalent of
federal agent training as an MP. If you did not carry a weapon 24/7 no
matter if you were on base or not then you would most likely not qualify
for the full exemption."
Respectfully,
Illinois State Police
Firearms Services Bureau
Concealed Carry Unit

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 4:34 PM

2014-11-13T16:34:25-05:00

There have been several bills before Congress over the last few years that would have mandated universal reciprocity for all CCW licenses/permits, but obviously none of them have been passed.

High standards would need to be adopted by the DOD to determine eligibility for carrying on/off post. Each State I've been licensed in has required different levels of training (some only required my CAC as proof of service and therefore some weapons training).

I look forward to deployments where a weapon issue and carry is mandatory. We're all actively doing our part to defend our base and each other.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 5:06 PM

2014-11-13T17:06:51-05:00

During deployment we are required to carry loaded weapons around base. With the exception that we are generally talking about federal land and state issued CHL's the first thing should be to get federal recognition for each state CHL to have reciprocity between all states (i am not in favor of a Federal CHL, I want my money to stay in the state). Once recognized then it should be easy to let CHL holders carry on post. I do not think they should be CAC holders in addition to CHL. If a retiree or contractor has a CHL then he should be able to protect himself to and from any military post; not leave his weapon at home or have to check in his weapon at the gate because his wants to enter federal lands.

Response by 1SG Steven Holden made Nov 13 at 2014 7:58 PM

2014-11-13T19:58:15-05:00

I believe so.... Hell, we are trusted with millions of dollars worth of equipment and weapons that are capable of destroying countries off of the map.... Why can't we carry a sidearm anywhere?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 10:54 PM

2014-11-13T22:54:21-05:00

I believe that Officers, NCO's and MP's should be allowed to carry at all times. Yes, this could be another threat increase; but at the same time it's more protection.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 2:08 AM

2014-11-14T02:08:11-05:00

I say yes that if you are AD or if in the reserves/guard and on assignment on base, then you should be allowed to carry. As a Submariner, at one point in time or another, every member of the crew will carry a weapon. Other than the CO and XO who are qualified to use a weapon but generally don't, the DOC is the only person who will not handle a firearm. Be it as a topside watch or a roving watch below decks, we all have carried based on FPCON. Hell, even the most junior nubly E-1 will be intrusted with a 9mm and a shotgun or M16. The way I see it is, if I am being trusted to protect a billion plus dollar national asset, then I should be able to carry a weapon on base at my discretion. It will come to be one day that a lone wolf terrorist will get onto an installation and run rampant before security can get to him and we will have an incident as bad or worse than the Fort Hood shooting.

Response by MAJ Philip Crabtree made Nov 14 at 2014 5:30 AM

2014-11-14T05:30:57-05:00

No. That's just dumb. Just because a service member has a CAC doesn't mean they know how to use a handgun properly. How many people in the Air Force or Navy regularly handle firearms? What about chaplains. Let's make common sense a little more common.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 6:18 AM

2014-11-14T06:18:59-05:00

Maybee if we give all the crazy military people a concealed permit domestic violence and rape would go down, but i bet murder would go way up...

Response by SN Brian Riter made Nov 14 at 2014 7:23 AM

2014-11-14T07:23:06-05:00

it would actually be a blessing and a curse or that's how i might see it because it would be good for military personnel to carry concealed firearms only potential downfall to it is that the mental state of the soldier sailor airman or marine you're giving it to i think evaluations would be necessary before issuing service members firearms to conceal

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 3:57 PM

2014-11-14T15:57:02-05:00

I would love to have the option to open carry or concealed carry on base. I recognize that there are alot of issues that this brings up, but I really believe that the benefits outweight the cost. How much loss of life could have been prevented? I think that if the mlitary branches could get together and come up with a standard license, and stricter training requirments across the board, we could find a way to make this happen. Why can we not be trusted to carry on base, while not on duty, but we can carry a military issued weapon while on watch/duty? Let us protect each other, ourselves and our families.

V/R
LS2 (SW) Nichols

Response by 1LT Ryan Millican made Nov 14 at 2014 9:09 PM

2014-11-14T21:09:49-05:00

I believe that the CAC should serve as an equivalent to the Concealed Carry. Military Personnel go through just as much, if not more, training on firearms/firearms safety as you would in a civilian class. So many of our Soldiers are spending their money to get a Concealed Carry License just to go through basically the same training that they went through in Basic Training, or almost anytime they have any kind of BRM practice.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 10:45 PM

2014-11-14T22:45:03-05:00

Absolutely, but under the stipulation that they are trained and qualified to do so. If military personnel are responsible enough to go through the proper training to conceal carry and reciecve their license or permit (dependent on state), then they should be authorized to carry on base. I mean honestly, how often to do you see people who LEGALLY conceal carry run around and do dumb things (i.e. waving it around, pulling it out unnecessarily, etc) with said weapon.

In the face of tomorrow, U.S. service members are encountering the more common threat of endangerment on base, on U.S. soil, and in their own homes. Its only fair that those responsible enough to get proper CC training be allowed to protect the ones they work with and the ones they love.

Besides, I'd put a gun in most active duty service members hand's before I give it to a lot of law enforcement officers out there.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 12:33 PM

2014-11-15T12:33:08-05:00

Yes. Military should be allowed to carry on base without a doubt. For other establishments the military should aside by the state laws as we always have.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Nov 15 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-11-15T15:36:12-05:00

Arm the Armed Forces! | RallyPoint

Response by Sgt Philip Edwards made Nov 15 at 2014 3:48 PM

2014-11-15T15:48:17-05:00

No doubt about it. Everyone who can carry legally should. Military or not.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Nov 15 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-11-15T22:52:38-05:00

I'd say go for it and lets not forget the retired soldiers! And if you guys read about the recent incident at the Groton, CT subbase, I'd say get the civilian DON cops back to the firing range!!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2014 9:21 AM

2014-11-18T09:21:42-05:00

Yes, absolutely . How I can protect the nation and not myself should not be a question, period.

Response by PFC Daniel VanDaniker made Nov 18 at 2014 11:18 AM

2014-11-18T11:18:07-05:00

Yes after proving to be proficient.

Response by CMSgt Ray Theriault made Nov 19 at 2014 5:26 AM

2014-11-19T05:26:29-05:00

Thought this was "The Onion" with that question.

Response by HN Frank Castillo made Nov 21 at 2014 12:44 AM

2014-11-21T00:44:43-05:00

Yes!

Response by Sgt Jason West made Dec 18 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-12-18T12:51:04-05:00

No, no, and HELL NO! Too many idiots with drug/mental issues running around with a CAC card while waiting to be discharged or in a lot of cases just in constant trouble and waiting to get out. I knew several during my time in that I would trust with a sling shot or airsoft gun, much less concealed carry of a firearm.

Response by SSG Chris Garabitos made Feb 17 at 2015 4:24 PM

2015-02-17T16:24:12-05:00

That would be a smart way of doing it yes. Should it be automatic, no. A young service member, let's say 18.. Shouldn't be allowed to carry just yet. All in all

Response by SGT Chris Kleefisch made Feb 17 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-02-17T16:30:18-05:00

I am all for it! You can carry a gun to defend this country, why not to defend yourself. I have a concealed carry permit and I do carry.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 17 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-02-17T19:35:38-05:00

I don't think being in the military means you know how to shoot or shoot someone else without hitting civilians. It's not the Wild Wild West. People need to lean to conceal their weapon and when it's appropriate to whip it out. Military members have been getting car jacked, robbed and assaulted long before ISIS threats. It's no reason to run out and carry a gun. If someone dosent want to pay for the class and get licensed they must not feel that strongly about it. It's a liability I'm sure the military won't want. A CAC card dosent have your weapons qual on it.

Response by SSgt Scott Schwerman made Mar 26 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-03-26T12:45:45-04:00

I personally say yes, but they should be required to take the CC course, self defense course, and a escalation of force course.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-03-26T12:53:31-04:00

While vets do receive proper training, probably even more so than the average carrying civilian, those opposed to it will make the argument that those with PTSD should not be allowed to carry. Now while this may seem like an easy fix, like just not let those diagnosed carry, that will lead vets to hide their problems which will definitely create a greater problem. Just my opinion.

Response by SSgt Todd Ricker made Mar 26 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-03-26T12:57:30-04:00

I am ALL for more CCW holders anywhere. Being from CA, i wish it was that easy. Also being firearms trainer, my experience (yes Air Force, but have trained with Army as well) tells me not every military personnel are capable of the responsibility or even simple mechanics of holding a live weapon.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-03-26T13:02:23-04:00

The language on many of the CCW applications that incorporates retired law-enforcement ought to be modified to include active or retired military. If nothing else, expanding on that existing provision may be the easiest way to get it started in all but the stupidest states (MD, NJ, CA, NY, IL, etc.)

Of course, the argument for law enforcement is usually a lifetime of potential violent reciprocity from formerly convicted felons they put away being let out in the future. But that isn't too far from reality for present day military with open fatwas against us domestically or retribution for our involvement in conflict zones.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:04 PM

2015-03-26T13:04:40-04:00

NO! NO! NO!

I have trained many marines in rifle and pistol marksmanship and as much as we would like to think that weapons handling and marksmanship is second nature to military members, IT IS NOT! There are just some people that no matter the amount or depth of the training they just don't get the hang of it. There needs to be training and signs of proficiency before being able to carry. A CAC should not give you that privilege. With that being said, VA Beach will give military members a concealed permit for $50 and show your CAC, not that I agree with that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-03-26T13:07:40-04:00

I would like to see uniformed personnel have that ability.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-03-26T13:08:54-04:00

I would think it's a slippery slope with the undisciplined Soldiers coming through the ranks now.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-03-26T13:21:19-04:00

Since in the state that I live in the ability to get a concealed carry license is very easy I’m going to say no, the CAC does not superseded the validity of going thru the local documentation process. The law of the area you live and the police there would be the ones questioning in the first place. Just because you have a CAC doesn’t mean you are not: A violent offender, a current military member(I am dual CAC ctr and Army), also the MPs here on post are civilian so I would think the sight of a pistol could cause some uneasy feelings, then there is the possibilities of negligent discharges from dumb asses that think showing off what they own is a prestige thing. I will open carry all day long however because that is the right bestowed on me by living in this state. Go thru the proper channels of the law, that’s why they are there. Know your rights and abide by them and if you’re comfortable carrying a pistol get your license take some safety classes and by all means cover your own ass.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-03-26T13:32:48-04:00

No way. There are so many immature lower enlisted even some NCOs that still act like children. Service members need to stay vigilant and not put themselves out there and draw attention that can cause harm to them just because they are a service member.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:40 PM

2015-03-26T13:40:08-04:00

on duty should be open carry and off duty should be concealed...U don't want to scare the public...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:42 PM

2015-03-26T13:42:14-04:00

The CAC should stand in place of the permit when out of state...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-03-26T13:43:40-04:00

Yes we should

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-03-26T13:46:20-04:00

I agree with Lieut. Col. Paul Heinein

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Mar 26 at 2015 1:55 PM

2015-03-26T13:55:31-04:00

No I do not think the CAC should replace a conceal carry permit. What the Military could do is, facilitate the training and issuance of the permit once a service member has completed training. Not all SMs have the maturity or training to handle a pistol.
Instead of a conceal carry, the Military should authorize an open carry, with a permit, on bases for Active and Retired members.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 2:01 PM

2015-03-26T14:01:23-04:00

I 100% vote yes to this idea.

EDIT: Ok, after reading some of the responses I have to change my answer. I agree that some people should not have firearms without close supervision. What I would like to suggest instead is that a valid CAC should serve to "globalize" an existing CCL. Meaning, if you have a concealed carry permit from any state, your CAC should make it valid in any other state, to include states that have no provision for a permit.

Response by SSG Christopher K. made Mar 26 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-03-26T14:03:43-04:00

Unfortunately there are just as many irresponsible service members as there are civilians. With that said I think that each soldier who wishes to carry should go through an evaluation or screening process to see if they would be a good candidate to carry a sidearm or concealed weapon under military sanction and approval

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 2:33 PM

2015-03-26T14:33:15-04:00

I would say yes though throw in the annual required briefs some about use of force for carrying concealed. Have some training that is either mandatory or optional where soldiers can learn what to do, how to carry, use of force, better situational awareness, alternate options to lethal force if they are available, as well as things to do to protect themselves and their families in public, in the home, on base, on the roads, etc.... I teach other people a lot about being prepared and safe and protecting those they are responsible for that cannot protect themselves and I think everyone should learn more about that.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-03-26T14:51:20-04:00

That wouldn't be a bad idea as long as it also allows for carry on base. If not, it definitely lessens the effect since possession on base even in your car is generally not allowed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-03-26T14:52:10-04:00

Yes

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-03-26T14:56:09-04:00

The first step is making it legal for service members to carry on base in the first place. Service members are most visible to would be attackers when going to and from base because they are highly visible being in uniform, and they're on a known route going into the base. This most vulnerable time is impossible to be protected during because it is illegal for us to have a gun in our cars or on our person when going on base.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-03-26T15:30:33-04:00

With there being so many states that you can be PCS to and having to reply for a carry permit, it would be a good thing for the Federal Government issue permit something like that of a commercial drivers license guidelines for carry permit.

Response by SPC Tim Johnson made Mar 26 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-03-26T15:33:22-04:00

I don't necessarily agree your cac card should be your license, even though majority of the country can obtain a ccw permit states like God damn new jersey hinder your rights. But I do think as a member of the military you should be allowed to carry upon completing the same training anyone else does for a ccw. just cause you've been trained how to carry and handle an m16 or m4 doesn't mean your equipped to properly conceal a weapon without printing or worse.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-03-26T15:42:56-04:00

I believe they should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. We have more training and hours of fire than most of America. It provides a extra measure of security in case of a emergency on our homeland.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 3:43 PM

2015-03-26T15:43:58-04:00

I don't think having a CAC should be the ONLY prerequisite for concealed carry. You should be required to have Military Weapons Training with the appropriate Escalation of Force training before you could be allowed to carry. Be realistic, you have Band members and admin people who have only touched a weapon in basic training, if at all, only to be "qualified". You need more training than that.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 3:50 PM

2015-03-26T15:50:14-04:00

Yes.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-03-26T15:57:54-04:00

I was just sent this notification about the discussion, for which I would like to pose a question that I couldn't find. What do you do once the AD service member retires, separates, or worse yet, is medically retired with a TBI and PTSD.

The rules and issues with regards to the above are important.

I agree, that most military have more experience than some of the local officers who in large are understaffed and have just as many ROE's as in our AD in AOR. However, some of them are our past buddies.

The state of WA when requesting a CPL must have your unit CO's signature.

Response by TSgt Benjamin Torrez made Mar 26 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-03-26T16:06:08-04:00

Created a petition on change.org

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-of-representatives-u-s-senate-create-a-national-conceal-and-carry-law-for-active-and-20-year-retired-military-members?recruiter=76138283&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-custom_msg&fb_ref=Default

Hope that link works.

U.S. House of Representatives, U.S. Senate: Create a National Conceal and Carry law for Active...

Our enemies continue to grow bolder and now threaten the very people that protect our nation. We need to respond to these threats by allowing our Active and 20+ year retired military members to both easily protect themselves and fellow citizens. This will be an added benefit to both serving our county and the American tax payer, by putting all the weapons training our American service men and women have received to good use and sending the...

Response by MAJ Mathew Billings made Mar 26 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-03-26T16:07:22-04:00

I wrote my thesis on this for my graduate degree. BLUF: There is no absolute answer and too many variables for this to happen. Not least among them is the fact that an Installation Commander can assume risk and develop a program to license individuals thru training, qualifications, background check (yes, even if a person holds a security clearance) and psychological exams (the last being more important due to the effects of 15 years of war and multiple deployments). I don't see prohibitions being lifted unless DoD Regs change and DODI's are issued to the services allowing these Commanders to disavow themselves of the liability involved. The overall responsibility would have to rest on the individual service member, just like it does in the civilian world. I am in favor of a program that would lead to authorizations to carry concealed weapons by certified persons including family members. It's just not likely to happen in this life.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-03-26T16:11:34-04:00

In a word: YES! There should be no reason as to why an active service member shouldn't be able to conceal carry. As long as the SM is not in violation of the Lauginburg amendment.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-03-26T16:34:44-04:00

I think you have to ask yourself the hard questions in this area and do your best to forgo emotional responses. I have a concealed carry permit (which I very rarely use), and I believe in the right to own weapons as much as the next guy, but the more I think about it, the more reasons I find to not support "concealed carry for all current service members" or on-post carry, etc.

First off, is the threat really as great as we are making it out to be? So what if there are a few rumors that terrorists are coming to get us? Sure there have been a few people killed as mentioned below, but such occurrences are rare. How many people would be killed or injured by accidental discharges or unsafe handling practices if this became a reality. Would the risks outweigh the potential rewards? Would you feel safe with some of the people in your unit carrying guns around at work? Do you really want additional mandatory training on top of that?

Second, what happens if there is an actual shooting and everyone decides to be a hero? How do the cops or MPs respond? How do they determine who is a threat and who isn't? How many innocent reactionaries would be killed due to misidentification or ill-placed shots from other reactionaries. Which is better - one psycho shooting a pistol in public, or 25 wanna-be heroes shooting pistols in public? How many bystanders would be hit by stray rounds and how many heroes would shoot other heroes instead of the actual threat? In an already chaotic situation, this would add levels of complexity that no one would want to do deal with (especially if it happened in an area where everyone is wearing the same uniform).

Finally (at least for this post) how many innocent carriers would be shot by cops for "aggressive" movements? How many heroes would shoot random people for "aggressive" movements or misidentified weapons? How many fistfights would end in a shooting?

I think it's a bad idea. If we lived in a world that was really as terrifying as people are making this one out to be, then reverting to the Wild West might be justifiable, but I just don't see any real benefit to everyone toting weapons around all of the time. It seems like it would cause more problems than it would solve.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-03-26T16:41:00-04:00

I don't believe a conceal to carry permit should be automatically given to every military personnel. I believe the Kris Kyle story proves a valid point. If military personnel wish to have a conceal and carry permit, they need to be given an extensive physiological evaluation after every tour of duty overseas. Also they should be given a certain amount of time after each tour that they have to wait to see if they are truly stable.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-03-26T16:41:34-04:00

Having seen countless service members handle and shoot firearms after a "significant" amount of training...I would not give a service member a free pass to carry concealed solely based on their active status.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 4:55 PM

2015-03-26T16:55:41-04:00

Absolutely. We carry weapons on deployment, why not in Garrison. You know, kids sometimes have more common sense that adults; they aren't clouded by political correctness. While watching the news of the mass shooting at Ft Hood, my son said, "Wow, that guy must've been a great shot!" I asked him why, and his response was that "He has to be to kill that many soldiers without getting shot." "Oh, son! All of those Soldiers were UNARMED, and the shooter knew it." "Where were their guns?" "They aren't allow to have any." "Well, that's stupid. Somebody could've shot that guy." EXACTLY

Also, we are trusted to go around foreign citizens arms-up, but not at home?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-03-26T17:01:06-04:00

Well considering there's a kill list targeting military personnel. I think so.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-03-26T17:02:32-04:00

With the continuous threat against the country and now with opsec issues and the enemy can retrieve our names and information at home I do believe this is necessary. They can attack you at home with your family and this is a new threat that will hit is eventually. We can't always be reactive. We need to be proactive. Plus with the growing active shooter incidents we could be of use especially those who have been trained to handle that kind of situation. It is something to seriously consider.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:09 PM

2015-03-26T17:09:12-04:00

I'm stationed at Ft. Hood and as much of a good idea it seems I'd have to disagree. Ft. Hood has been problematic when it comes to firearms. There are the publicized shootings that everyone knows about, but there has been a rash of shootings or threats of shootings on Ft. Hood. Firearms are a catch 22 situation, it will make a potential shooter think twice before shooting but in the same token it will turn some into a vigilante waiting for the moment to shoot for any reason. I'm on the fence on this one. I don't carry a weapon and don't think I would feel comfortable with everyone on post carrying one.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:14 PM

2015-03-26T17:14:55-04:00

I absolutely beleive that we should.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:18 PM

2015-03-26T17:18:52-04:00

Absolutely. In todays terror filled global climate its almost nessisary. NCO's and higher, or any soldier with more than 3 years TIS, should be able to carry in out of uniform either a personl side arm or an issued weapon.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-03-26T17:19:33-04:00

I would like this. We're trained to handle at least the most basic firearms. We should be able to carry without going through the time and costs of more training to carry in the civilian world.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-03-26T17:32:52-04:00

Uh, NO, I don't think so...especially after they just arrested a National Guaed Specialist in Chicago for working with ISIS. There would have to be a much better and more stringent system of checks and balances in place before concealed carry for all service members, based solely on the fact that they are, indeed, service members, takes place.

I'm also former law enforcement and I can already envision the nightmare THATS about to happen with this concealed carry deal. No..no one will know who's whom anymore.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:36 PM

2015-03-26T17:36:27-04:00

no. while some service members might be very familiar with weapons and safety most are not. i see no reason to bypass what ever legal process is in place to get authority to conceal carry.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-03-26T17:40:16-04:00

I personally have my carry, however, not with all states. I would ant to think this would be a safe idea to allow CAC holder the freedom to carry since we are more of a target to this late wave of terror against us as service member...The military need to make changes with the current threat CON...to better protect us while we are in country....home grown terror is blooming....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:43 PM

2015-03-26T17:43:28-04:00

That would be a great idea, however I don't thint it will happen.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-03-26T17:48:05-04:00

Without question. If we have earned the trust of the Federal government to go to war in defense of our country, we have earned the right to protect ourselves and our families if there is a direct threat to us. Of course the first time a war veteran returns with PTSD and kills his family or himself, those who thought it was a horrible idea in the first place will point to that single incident as to why it should never have been allowed. Proponents have to be ready to defend against those types of attacks

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:55 PM

2015-03-26T17:55:18-04:00

Should service members be able to conceal carry? Yes, but education and certifications should still be required. There are several service members that have no or little pistol experience. Still requiring a certification would ensure some level of basic knowledge on safety, usage, and local/federal laws. This would allow protect for the Soldier.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:01 PM

2015-03-26T18:01:38-04:00

Heck no. Too many dumbasses out there.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-03-26T18:10:39-04:00

No not a great idea. Having a cac card and being active duty does not guarantee they are not criminals

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:11 PM

2015-03-26T18:11:03-04:00

I am currently authorized by two states (home of record and current military residence state) and deemed trustworthy to carry a concealed weapon in somewhere around 40 of our 50 states as a result of those two State's approval of my worthiness and trustworthiness to safely carry and if necessary use a concealed weapon. All of that however is worthless because the Federal Government does not allow me to carry, much less even transport that personal weapon onto the installation where I work, spend most of my time at, and commute to and from daily.

I believe that there should be some sort of requirement other than blanket military service for a national concealed carry for service members. There are many service members who, while trained and qualified on a rifle/carbine/machine gun are a duck out of water, and possible hazard to themselves and others, if armed with a pistol. Just being in the military (at least Army and Marines) provides you with a basic understanding of firearms safety and operation, for a long-gun, but there are specific issues associated with handguns that are different that just "being in" doesn't necessarily mean you've got under wraps.

I don't believe that concealed carry should be appropriate on installations in uniform, but would be appropriate in civilian clothes. In uniform, I believe that if you choose to carry, you do so open-carry, and I imagine that there would be some sort of uniform standards for which type of holsters you would be allowed to carry.

I don't believe that people who intend to cause harm to service members would be inclined to enter into a facility where multiple armed personnel were and then start shooting. The incidents of shooting may increase due to more people having weapons in the workplace (but that is doubtful based on the very limited number of in-combat situations where one service member shoots another intentionally), but the severity of lone-wolf events would be much more limited. If even a small handful of the people at Fort Hood were armed and proficient with a personal weapon, the body count may have likely been 1 dead (perpetrator) and one or more wounded.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-03-26T18:16:11-04:00

Yes. Some states already do. We are the defenders of this nation, we are entrusted with firearms anyhow, I see no reason not to implement this.

Response by PO3 Kevin Murray made Mar 26 at 2015 6:18 PM

2015-03-26T18:18:03-04:00

Active duty service members - and in some cases inactive - should be given the right to concealed carry anywhere in the U.S. Our service cards should double as the license once we are abiding by local gun laws - which obviously can't supersede federal law. Great idea that should have been enacted as law ages ago.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:18 PM

2015-03-26T18:18:55-04:00

As a CCW advocate... Not just no, but hell no! There are too many knuckleheads that are just plain dangerous with a firearm, some that think they are the Lone Ranger and others that have a wicket temper and will not act rationally if they were allowed to carry "off duty."
I think that there is merit in allowing service members apply for a military issued CCW permit; but with an application, an outside review, annual or quarterly traing requirements, etc...

Response by SMA Ray Chandler made Mar 26 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-03-26T18:26:34-04:00

Absolutely not. What is the TRUE increased threat? The greater threat is the individual we allowed to carry (how does that work by the way when you leave the federal installation and fall under state and county jurisdiction-the Army doesn't trump that) that's pissed for whatever reason. That's why we have law enforcement professionals (called MPs) who police our installations. I challenge anyone here to find a post camp or station that has a higher crime rate on post than the of post community.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-03-26T18:45:28-04:00

I have a permit, but it kind of boggles my mind that we even need to have this discussion when the constitution clearly says we have the right to bear arms. Seriously, the constitution can be very ambiguous, but on this point it is crystal clear.

So now we are targets more than ever, but we are left defenseless going to and from work because of the restrictions. Yeah, there needs to be changes made to policies.

Response by SSG Gelbert Samsung made Mar 26 at 2015 6:48 PM

2015-03-26T18:48:41-04:00

Yes for senior and field grades. https://www.change.org/p/barack-obama-army-fox-news-cnn-abc-hold-command-accountable-for-selecting-cases-based-of-discrimination-retaliation-and-racism-with-double-standards?recruiter=264457876&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=mob-xs-no_src-no_msg

Response by Sgt Ron Proffitt made Mar 26 at 2015 6:49 PM

2015-03-26T18:49:36-04:00

Active Duty, Reserve Active yes in any state that they are with Military I.D. Card.
When I was in all Marine Base had a Armory in the barracks and we had or weapons at any time needed, I believe President Clinton changed that.
I believe that all Military on any base should be armed and ammo.

Now before you are discharged from the service I believe you should apply to the state that you are moving to obtain a conceal carry permit most states offer this and being military all you need is there application and a copy of your DD 214, there are some states allow you to carry concealed no permit required.

But I believe the way things are turning with the Radial Muslim wanting kill and take over the world we should be armed.

Response by LCpl Jim Ploucher made Mar 26 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-03-26T18:52:00-04:00

Uniformed should carry concealed side arms.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:26 PM

2015-03-26T19:26:06-04:00

Yes, we should. After training on the use of force continuum, a service member in my opinion should be authorized to carry both on, or off of base and in or out of uniform.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-03-26T19:29:14-04:00

Not unless you have a post that requires you to carry a firearm

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:31 PM

2015-03-26T19:31:15-04:00

I would love to see service members be able to not only carry concealed weapons at work, but also in their civilian time as well. Since recent events have demonstrated that not all service members are psychologically well enough to carry concealed weapons, I think that CCW courses be mandatory and that those who wish to carry concealed weapons be evaluated for things such as PTSD, depression, anxiety, domestic violence, substance abuse, and any other issues that may affect their judgement.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:50 PM

2015-03-26T19:50:19-04:00

I'd say yes, but with some caveats. The person carrying has to have qualified with the weapon that he/she will carry, have no flags for disciplinary issues, there needs to be a formal counseling of the local laws governing concealed carry and the use of force and the chain of command has to track it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-03-26T19:57:37-04:00

Please I hope I don't overly offend anybody but this would be the stupidest idea ever. All we need is more idiots with pistols. Now I own many pistols and have a cac permit in the hardest state to get one but no way. Our average soldier can't even qualify first round with a long rifle and we want openly say because you wear a uniform you can conceal a pistol. Less than 10% of the the army has 9mm pistols and those who do can't hit the broad side of a barn. I love my gun freedoms as again I own many hut I also spend time with them and can use them effectively. We are not special because we wear a uniform. More teachers have got shot recently then soldiers so should we let all teachers have CACs also. A firm believer that people kill people not guns but stupid kills more than most anything else. I truly understand and can see the other side hear but not something I would feel comfortable with. Again my intent is no to anger.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-03-26T20:02:13-04:00

yes

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 8:26 PM

2015-03-26T20:26:19-04:00

I agree to off post and off duty with an application process using m4/16 certificates as eligibility.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 8:41 PM

2015-03-26T20:41:29-04:00

It is my belief that with some additional credentialing, concealed carry firearms classes, and a background check, Soldiers should be able to carry in any state.

After recently going through a Utah Concealed Carry Firearm class, it is way to difficult to conceal carry in all states. With UT and WA concelaind carry, you are still only getting access to 32 of the 50 states. Also, that class was very educational, even for a seasoned concealed carreir!

My 2 cents...

Response by PO2 Neil Manischewitz made Mar 26 at 2015 8:48 PM

2015-03-26T20:48:11-04:00

We could only hope folks in charge of making these decisions smarten up and realize having trained armed personnel all over this country is the best defense we can get. "Why do I carry a gun everywhere I go? Because Cops are too heavy". Situations as such make us easy targets and now we are automatically the first responders.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 8:49 PM

2015-03-26T20:49:20-04:00

Response by TSgt Joshua Lynch made Mar 26 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-03-26T20:58:35-04:00

Officers and NCOs definitely.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:06 PM

2015-03-26T21:06:36-04:00

Hell yes we should

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:07 PM

2015-03-26T21:07:06-04:00

Negative!!

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-03-26T21:09:30-04:00

Hell yes!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-03-26T21:22:09-04:00

We are "professionals." I carry concealed while off post most of the time. It's an American right. I also believe that we should be able to carry on post with the correct training. We carry deployed, we shoot at the range, we carry knifes, we jump out of high performance aircraft, we are professionals. This shouldn't be an argument or a concern.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-03-26T21:22:11-04:00

Absolutely, unequivocally, no. I do believe in a citizen’s right to carry a concealed weapon, that there should be a national CCW permit, and that servicemembers should be able to carry a concealed weapon aboard military installations, as long as they have a valid permit for that state. However, I believe that there is some flawed logic in the argument that servicemembers should be able to carry a concealed weapon “out in town” with their CAC acting as a de facto national concealed carry permit.

People keep pointing out the “advanced” training and qualifications that service members have as justification for Concealed Carry permits. However, I sincerely doubt that the data actually supports this supposition. First and foremost, the vast majority of servicemembers do not require an active pistol qualification. The Marine Corps, for example, only requires annual pistol qualification for E7 and above (based on their T/O weapon; with exemptions), which represents a minority of the total force. Only requiring the possession of a CAC would mean granting a concealed carry permit to a person who may not be able to even demonstrate function and operation of a pistol. Furthermore, servicemembers who have previously passed initial and annual qualification courses still fail during subsequent qualifications. They do not get their CAC revoked simply for demonstrating a lack of proficiency with a firearm.

Secondly, qualification is not inherently the same thing as training, and should not be expected to substitute for it. While there is more to responsibly carrying a concealed weapon than being able to effectively put rounds on target, this is not inherently true of the standard required weapons qualifications. Qualification relies on the assumptions that you have a lawful target, and are given an order to engage. A concealed carry holder does not have the liberty to make these assumptions.

Finally, concealed carry legislation varies dramatically from state to state. It is the responsibility of a CCW holder to be familiar with the specifics and nuances of the legislation in their specific state. Instituting an automatic CCW policy without mandated training and compliance with state/local procedures is a recipe for disaster.

Response by 1LT Micah Boersma made Mar 26 at 2015 9:31 PM

2015-03-26T21:31:23-04:00

This should also apply to any veteran who was not dishonorably discharged.

Response by SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:34 PM

2015-03-26T21:34:03-04:00

Not a good idea. Level of maturity within the service is not what it used to be. There would be more problems than any benefit would out weigh. It's a shame.

Response by CPO Michael Burns made Mar 26 at 2015 9:36 PM

2015-03-26T21:36:27-04:00

I do not think it should be automatic, just because you have a CAC card. All branches of military have people who have no business holding a weapon. I have known service members to be affiliated with gangs and convicted of violent crimes, to include murder. I'm not saying "No", I'm just saying it should not be automatic. The training and screening should be a part of the process. For everybody.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 11:39 PM

2015-03-26T23:39:27-04:00

I feel that the current policy is good enough. A service member must prove that they have received some form of familiarity with a handgun and apply for a CCW. I do realize that a few states do not recognize CCWs ( i.e. parts of California and New York).

A secondary law enforcement agency must perform due diligence to ensure that the individual does not have a criminal record, is trust worthy and responsible enough to carry.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 11:45 PM

2015-03-26T23:45:40-04:00

I think it would be a good form of defense should there be an attack but there should strict rule and guidelines as to the use since it can also bring about a lot issues. We have to bear in mind that all uniform service members are at risk now a days, whether home or abroad.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-03-27T00:08:15-04:00

I believe this law is already in affect in Georgia..

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:21 AM

2015-03-27T00:21:54-04:00

I think that maybe service members should get a free or reduced cost carry permit, as long as they can qualify on weapons. I am security forces, I carry duty weapons every day. However, I have seen many service members that haven't touched a weapon since basic, and the thought of these members carrying a concealed weapon scares me a little bit.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:59 AM

2015-03-27T00:59:09-04:00

I believe it should be autorized for NCO's and above who have completed a standardized class and test.

Response by BG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 1:22 AM

2015-03-27T01:22:28-04:00

Yes.

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 1:32 AM

2015-03-27T01:32:27-04:00

They take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States...they should be able to live by it as well. Constitutional carry for all service members!

Response by SGT Patrick Soule made Mar 27 at 2015 2:24 AM

2015-03-27T02:24:38-04:00

I was saying this prior to the Fort Hood incident... 'All soldiers E-5 and above should be required to carry, on and off duty'. With that is the fact that they must pass at least basic marksman qual with a pistol.

I think the MPs and those on guard duty should be open carry, but able to have a concealed backup if they choose to. Otherwise, on duty, concealed is just fine. Off duty, carry concealed... tactical advantage.

I left the Army in 1989. I had my CCW and carried off duty the last four years of my service, then have carried concealed every day since... even when at home.

Do we ever truly know when or where the threat is going to come from?

{Edited for punctuation}

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 2:35 AM

2015-03-27T02:35:33-04:00

Though I think it's a valid idea, is it not a possible Posse Comitatus Act violation? Also, no less than 50% of Air Force officers should ever come in contact with a gun.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 3:21 AM

2015-03-27T03:21:59-04:00

If the personnel are properly trained with the statutes of the local and state law as well as federal, there should be an allowance to purchase and keep a sidearm. With the new emerging threat of active shooter and domestic lone wolf terrorism, service members should be equipped with a means to protect themselves and others from life threatening situations. SM's are allowed to carry overseas but not on their own base? Is a question that is astonishing.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 5:00 AM

2015-03-27T05:00:50-04:00

They should offer a free course to all active duty personal, specific on concealed carry(or open carry) and procedures involved should a situation arise. Upon completion of the course, a federal license should be issued. Of course, the firearms would need to be checked in upon entering base or secured government areas. In my opinion.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 5:13 AM

2015-03-27T05:13:46-04:00

I don't think having a CAC card alone sould grant a license to carry. Most soldiers typically during peace time are never trained with the handgun. It would be critical to ensure that proper trainig is conducted. And that some sort of Identifyer is present on the CAC. This should also be suplented by a manditory block of training annually, because wether you think so or not it is a use or loose skill

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Mar 27 at 2015 6:07 AM

2015-03-27T06:07:16-04:00

Double NO. Even military members can feel depression, anxiety, debt, temper tantrums, etc. Under those conditions, would you want somebody armed and capable of snapping? I wouldn't.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 6:28 AM

2015-03-27T06:28:31-04:00

Yes I think soldiers should be able to carry, hell soldiers already have had weapons safety training. If not shame on their DI. Anyone deployed in the combat zone has had to carry a loaded weapon for 9 to 12 months. I'm not going to continue to write on I think everyone knows where I'm going with this.

Response by SSG Bryan Cole made Mar 27 at 2015 7:24 AM

2015-03-27T07:24:57-04:00

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State - Security of a free state, this doesn't mean hunting, this doesn't mean sport shooting, this is to ensure the protection of our freedom, from foreigners and also for an overbearing government.

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. - shall not be infringed, not "you can carry concealed, if you have a permit".

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic - we all took this oath, yet we discuss who should be able to carry and when. we should be saying no, no you will not enforce these laws that are in a direct violation of the constitution. no we do not need a CCW. No, I will not hide my weapon.

The key is also, against all enemies foreign and domestic. the government passing these illegal laws is a domestic enemy of the constitution, yet we do nothing.

why are they not being held accountable? Why has America turned into a pussification state?

Unfortunately, I have my CCW, and carry daily. I hate playing the game, but as long as senior leadership does nothing, what can you do? They will throw you under the bus to protect themselves, seen it too many times.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 7:37 AM

2015-03-27T07:37:29-04:00

Absolutely they should. We swore an oath to support and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The threat against our country, and against our own lives and those of our families are at great risk, because we signed that blank check. And now you tell me I cannot carry a weapon to protect myself, my family, my brothers and sisters in arms? Absurd!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 7:46 AM

2015-03-27T07:46:36-04:00

I am all for this. I carry whenever I can. However, due to base restrictions, I have to leave my weapon at home any day I work. Which in all honesty is when I am most likely to be a target. This is a great idea, especially with the increased threat, lately. We're always getting emails about securing our Facebook accounts which begs the question, because anybody can look at me from day to day and see the I'm an airman

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 8:22 AM

2015-03-27T08:22:40-04:00

Yes I do agree that military personnel should be allowed to conceal carry anywhere in the U.S. It doesn't make any sense to me that we stand ready to protect our nation foreign and domestic, but we have no right to protect ourselves on our own soil. Great topic

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 8:52 AM

2015-03-27T08:52:15-04:00

It's a great idea but it will be a training nightmare. If the top structures how properly thou it can deffinatly work.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-03-27T09:54:43-04:00

Yes we should as long as there is the right training for it. Most service member's are already qualified.

Response by SGT Richard Ellis made Mar 27 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-03-27T09:57:21-04:00

Not just AD military, but Honorably Discharged and or retired veterans as well. Just because we are no longer serving in uniform Doesn't mean we are going to turn our back on our country nor communities. We all swore an oath to protect our country.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-03-27T10:31:12-04:00

I agree concealed carry for non-MP on post . But allow all military to carry concealed off post with just their current CAC or let them get their CCP based on their training with firearms in the military

Response by SSG Tanner Packer made Mar 27 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-03-27T10:43:57-04:00

There has to be some sort of qualification process. We can't just say a rank group qualifies based on how long they've been in. My first deployment had a MAJ A.D. no less than twice into the same clearing barrel over five months. I've also experienced NCO's who have little-to-know weapons knowledge but have still gained rank.
We wouldn't just say that all senior NCO's should be automatically sniper qualified because they've qualified so many times over their careers, would we?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-03-27T10:55:24-04:00

I would yes all enlisted soldiers should have the option to carry a firearm.

Response by 1SG Scott MacGregor made Mar 27 at 2015 11:25 AM

2015-03-27T11:25:05-04:00

Military members are generally better trained at carrying firearms then the general public. We also have a better sense of our surroundings and situational awareness then our civilian counter parts. I do believe however that we all need refresher training on what to do in a situation where lethal force is warranted. Training is also needed on how responding law enforcement will react seeing an armed civilian in a high stress environment. My expereince is LE over reacts and typically are not as keyed in on situational awareness like military veterans are.

Response by MSgt Steve Dawson made Mar 27 at 2015 11:35 AM

2015-03-27T11:35:53-04:00

Yes, but the Lower Ranks can't afford it. There needs to be whole home package.

Gun, Training (Family), Gun Safe. An E2 with Wife and Kid can't do this. Military should provide this for them. Since it will cost $$$$ I doubt it will happen.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-03-27T12:04:23-04:00

The second admentment applies to all Americans not just CAC Card holders. I want to defend my self and my family but I should not have special treatment. I believe all American citizens should be allowed to carry a weapon in there defence either open or concealed.

Response by MSG Jeff Walker made Mar 27 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-03-27T12:21:25-04:00

I agree with LTC Heinlein, don't hinder our soldiers in garrisons in the United States; let at a minimum E6 through O5 carry loaded side arms and protect the force!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-03-27T12:23:48-04:00

I would say anyone with a combat arms MOS. I know a lot of support guys who make me nervous with a weapon. Not to metion can't shoot to save their lives. Or at least have free mandatory training for military AD or reserv.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-03-27T13:06:34-04:00

I think military personnel should be allowed to carry concealed while on and off duty. Also training should be implemented so soldiers from E-1 to O-10 are properly trained so that they feel confident in carrying and understand rules and regulation for the state and city they live in. We all took an oath to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic and while home we should be able to defend ourselves and the people in our communities.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-03-27T14:13:37-04:00

In addition to off duty, off post CCW for all CAC holders, I'd also like to see a federally recognized CCW reciprocity agreement for all 50 states. As has been said, there will be those that abuse this and jeopardize it for everyone else but I feel like the benefit has the possibility of outweighing the risk. Notice how I phrased that... It has the possibility of being a good thing. I've had a civilian CCW since they became available to the public in Florida way back when. Remember the doomsayers? The Wild West was just around the corner. Didn't happen. For the most part, those in uniform have been trained and been proven capable of safe handling of a weapon. I use the caveat - for the most part - because my OBC class at Benning had more negligent discharges than anyone could think imaginable. Non-prior service 2LTs and M4s... Scary...

Response by MSG Danny Stanley made Mar 27 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-03-27T14:56:30-04:00

Short answer- yes. With the warnings from ISIS that they are encouraging their supporters in the US to track us down and kill us in our homes I think there is a need for this more than ever before. Many states require training of some sort before they will issue a concealed carry permit. In many of those states a DD 214 can be used in lieu of training. I have a West Virginia carry permit and with it I have reciprocity in 35 states. If my DD214 certifies me to carry in 35 states, it should surely be enough training for the people who gave me the training to carry. I have read some responses from others stating they believe this should be reserved for officers or senior NCOs. To those who propose this: would you be in favor of the same rules if you were downrange? If we had another Fort Hood style shooting would the colonel be the firs t responder? Or would you be glad some PFC was in the right place at the right time? ISIS has declared war on the United States. They have expressed their intent to kill us at home. Should we wait until it happens, or should we prepare ourselves for it? The geography of the battlefield is becoming blurred. It won't be long before it comes to us. We MUST be ready for when it does.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 4:20 PM

2015-03-27T16:20:54-04:00

I uphold the concept that every state should have a "shall-issue" policy with regards to concealed carry. That means as long as the pass the background checks for both criminal and mental health records and go through the appropriate class and training, they should be granted a permit. In states like California where the may-issue policies are ridiculously subjective and at the sole discretion of the local sheriff, that needs to change; the sheriff won't issue one to that widowed grandmother, but he WILL issue one to that wealthy political donor who lives in a gated community and perhaps gave him the publicity that got him voted into office so he could grant that permit.

Crime statistics show that most though not all large cities or states that have a shall-issue policy have lower rates of homicide and/or violent crime than states with may-issue.

But as for CAC holders; I believe we should still be at least 21 and go through the appropriate classes.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-03-27T17:05:34-04:00

Yes!!!!

Response by LCpl Mark Williams made Mar 27 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-03-27T18:17:20-04:00

Yes

Response by SPC Mark Beard made Mar 27 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-03-27T18:32:16-04:00

YES

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-03-27T19:43:05-04:00

Sounds good in theory. But with the number of weapons charges already going around the military, it would be a tough sell to the masses... .02

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-03-27T19:46:23-04:00

yes I think we should all service member in and out should carry a concealed weapon with thing going on oversea and at home with isis yes I do think it is nessary

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 9:33 PM

2015-03-27T21:33:07-04:00

Absolutely not! I cringe at the thought of some of the Soldiers I experienced throughout my Army career whom had no business crossing the street without roadguards present. And I retired 18 yrs ago. I have to add that our current younger generation has issues, self esteem, integrity, honesty, self-serving instead of selfless sevice, any disagreement is an act of disrespect, etc. 20 yrs ago, two Soldiers could get into a fight, wear each other out and it's over. Today, they would either pull on one another, or come back later and shot em in the back. NO, this does not apply to all younger Soldiers! However, whom would be the decision maker on who does or doesn't get authorization to carry.

I do support authorization for on duty / off duty carry on post for Select E6 and above, plus Federal Civilian Employees if they hold a State issued concealed carry permit. Even so, I vision some nightmares for unit and battalion commanders when and I do mean "When" one or two of their Soldiers are involved in an on post shooting incident in the barracks, parking lot, motor pool, etc be it on duty or off duty. Amry leadership tends to talk the talk of treating Soldiers as adults....that is until the off-duty incident occurs and his entire chain of command is on the carpet with him and they're getting treated as if they committed the offense themselves.

This is a tough issue the services will have to deal with, and with today's current world situation, Soldiers and Civilians on military installations are sitting ducks (i.e. Fort Hood Shooting 1 and 2); Does the risk of allowing carry on post out weigh the risk of Soldiers abusing the privilege and increase the potential and probability of Soldier on Soldier weapons incidents. Me personally, I believe it would.

I do have a CC Permit and have on a few ocassions forgotten to remove my weapon from my vehicle after a weekend or Holdiay and off to work I have gone on a Monday morning. Fortunately I was not caught up in any RAM checks at the gate.

If I had the authority, I would allow it, but I would be selective as hell as to who would be authorized...it would not be a blanket authorization for all. Just my opinion!

Response by SSG Michael Chenault made Mar 27 at 2015 11:30 PM

2015-03-27T23:30:13-04:00

Absolutely yes!!!

Response by SSG Michael Chenault made Mar 27 at 2015 11:35 PM

2015-03-27T23:35:13-04:00

I will comment once again by saying that proper training with a hand gun just like u would have to do to carry the M9, just because you have a CAC doesn't mean your proficient with a pistol.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 1:30 AM

2015-03-28T01:30:53-04:00

If you actually read the language and intent of the second amendment, even civilians should not be required concealed carry permits. I may sound absurd, but considering the fact that we swore to support and defend the constitution against ALL enemies foreign AND domestic; I would not be opposed to all servicemembers being required to carry on duty, and entertain the notion of servicemembers being required to maintain weapons in their place of residence.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 1:34 AM

2015-03-28T01:34:04-04:00

Yes... The logical is yes.... If you have doubts about someone then why are they in the military?

Response by SSG Arnie Jones made Mar 28 at 2015 1:52 AM

2015-03-28T01:52:19-04:00

In Ga, As a Combat Veteran and current law enforcement myself, only 2 sets of people (general rule) are exempt from Gun Laws in Ga. Law Enforcement and Active Duty Miltary. They do not require CCW.
Also in Ga, under 21, only persons that can apply for CCW is completion of Basic Training.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-03-28T13:06:27-04:00

Echoing some of the other comments, Stupid people do stupid things. Laws only keep honest people straight. At least us servicemen would be able to carry legally throughout the country. With the ever growing threat of terrorism abroad and on our own shores I WILL defend myself. I prefer to do it legally but the law will not stop me in the end.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-03-28T16:12:27-04:00

Interesting idea, for this to happen, screening of persons selected to carry conceal must be in place. Because not everyone is responsible enough for this daily responsibility.

Response by TSgt Larry Abernathy made Mar 28 at 2015 9:00 PM

2015-03-28T21:00:30-04:00

I believe this would be a great idea for those that wish to do so. It would also be necessary for annual training from the military not only on firing, qualifying, and maintaining their weapon, but also situational awareness.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-03-28T23:21:01-04:00

I totally agree with this.

Response by SPC Patrick Gearardo made Mar 29 at 2015 1:13 AM

2015-03-29T01:13:45-04:00

I think the process should be the same for everyone military or not. Increased threats should make you want to get your CC license as soon as you can. The entire process doesn't take that long.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 10:08 AM

2015-03-29T10:08:24-04:00

I tend to agree with carrying on and off post as well as conceal carry. I do think this should require a supervisors endorsement. Especially for active duty, no one has a better idea of how responsible a soldier can be. As an E-6 with over 12 years of service I have seen 18 year old soldiers I wouldn't hesitate to trust with my life and I have seen 10 year veterans I wouldn't trust with a sling shot. It would be prudent of course to require a safety course as well as a test on the laws and requirements that go with such a privilege but I think bad guys around the world would find themselves hesitating if they had no idea which person carrying a gun is an enthusiast and which one is a trained defender of America. As with all programs, nothing is guaranteed but it would be very difficult for an active shooter in a subway or mall to get very far when there is a good chance one in 10 people could be carrying a gun and know how to use it. I has also been my experience that people who go through the trouble to get these permits have a great deal of respect for the responsibility and usually only wind up in the news as savior in the right place at the right time. I
SSG David Rondeau

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-03-29T10:31:35-04:00

Other militaries (Europe) provide their Soldiers with weapons that they keep in their posession all the time and take them home for National defence. U.S. service member are trained and capable of maintaining, carrying a firearm. The U.S. military should initiate a pilot program.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-03-29T13:32:09-04:00

My opinion on the matter will probably have some controversy, I do not think just because you are military you should be able to carry, there are a lot of military who are not qualified and do not understand proper handling of a loaded firearm, through all of my deployments I have witnessed loaded M16,M4, and M9s being thrown on the ground, slung on peoples backs where they have hit people with the barrel unknowingly (Just 2 months ago a soldier bumped their barrel into my shoulder at a DFAC in Iraq fully loaded and when I looked their selector switch was on semi.) A lot of new soldiers as well as non combat arms have not handled weapons very much and even my own soldiers I have caught with their weapons hot and the safety off on accident and if you ask a lot of soldiers who are not combat arms or MPs or who do not deal with weapons on a daily basis they do not know a lot about their weapon or safety of it other than making sure its on safe. Most have only fired their weapon while qualifying on a range with someone looking over their shoulder directing every action. Whats to say someone won't have that muscle memory or discipline to ensure their weapon is on safe and has a AD/or ND. I believe NCO's in combat arms MOS as well as MPs should be able to carry using their CAC as CCW card. All others should have to take a course in order to carry, it would be nice to offer this course free of charge as a military program just like the motorcycle course you are required to take to drive a motorcycle.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-03-29T14:13:45-04:00

My opinion is that all military personnel should be allowed to conceal carry. With a up to date CAC card. PERIOD.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 12:46 AM

2015-03-30T00:46:53-04:00

Yes! Absolutely!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-03-30T00:55:18-04:00

Folks are making this way too complicated.

I live in a county that ranks among the top concentrations of concealed carry licenses. I see moms pushing strollers open carrying, and we have a national forest spot used by citizens as a range complex.

No supervision, no risk assessments.

I have buddies in the local sheriffs department, and how many firearms incidents do we have in a given year? Like none.

Wow, somehow a bunch of civilians (and an enclave of "crazy" vets) can act responsibly and politely with one another while locked and loaded.

It isn't hard guys! Just copy the CCW system that currently exists and you are good.

By the way, haven't we already screened our DoD employees for weapons posetion before sending them to Basic? What more do you want?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 1:08 AM

2015-03-30T01:08:38-04:00

Yes since we are primary targets to some in this society. There are a lot of people who don't like us armed service men and women. Some would harm us than praise us for are sacrifice we make to this beloved country. Not to mention known ISIS personnel roaming around this country lurking in the shadows. It's bad to say we/I don't feel safe in my own country. So yes we should be able to conceal carry for our own protection.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-03-30T19:11:07-04:00

If we can't be trusted to carry our own arms, as soldiers have throughout human history, then we don't need to be wearing the uniform. Weapons save more lives than they take.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-03-31T12:21:08-04:00

It should be subject to the same restrictions as conceal carry permits. I was all gung-ho for this when I first commissioned, and then I became a PL. I had some Soldiers that I wouldn't give a rubber duck...
It might make sense for all deploy-able Soldiers to be eligible for a CCW and for non-deploy-able Soldiers on a case-by-case basis. This will screen out Soldiers who are barred from carrying weapons under the Lautenberg amendment and by Behavioral Health but haven't been discharged.

Response by Cpl Karl Gleason made Mar 31 at 2015 10:14 PM

2015-03-31T22:14:17-04:00

Dam right they should!

Response by Cpl Karl Gleason made Mar 31 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-03-31T22:23:29-04:00

I have a question on this. I am visiting my Son at Ft. LENORDWOOD soon and I carry everywhere I go. I have a department permit and a State of Michigan permit. I am driving so I plan on taking my handgun. Where do I secure it when I go on base?

Response by SFC Charles S. made Mar 31 at 2015 11:25 PM

2015-03-31T23:25:43-04:00

Being a current CCW holder in a State where most counties do not issue CCW's, this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. The idea that Members of the Military are not allowed to carry a Concealed weapon on their own home ground is absurd and not logical. We are given weapons far more destructive than mere sidearms; and we are very well trained to use them; in very stressful conditions. We above all should be more than trusted but endowed to be permitted to carry them. Not only in the state that we are stationed but also across every state in the country. Retired Law Enforcement Officers are given this permission through a fairly new law (2004) Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA). We are as equally trained as they in my opinion, some mos's more than others but still a legitimate argument.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 8:47 AM

2015-04-01T08:47:36-04:00

Only if they wear PT belts while carrying. Safety first.

In all seriousness, in the current safety obsessed, zero defect mentality enviornment I can not imagine this ever, ever being allowed.

I would like to see duty officers and NCOs issued sidearms.

I could also see all officers and NCOs being issued side arms to carry on duty if the local force protection level warrants it. Though maybe not 2LTs....or we could just give them blanks.

I'm not sure that allowing every Soldier to carry all the time is a great idea. Given the shennanigans lower enlisted are constantly tempted to, I'd expect to see privates shooting each other the barracks, probably while drunk.

For it to work, safely, the Army would need to significantly up the level of firearms training for its Soldiers (which would be agood thing).

Response by LTC Rudy Schulz made Apr 1 at 2015 11:33 AM

2015-04-01T11:33:39-04:00

If a service member has reason to believe that they are in danger, then they should apply for a CCW just like the rest of us. Most states make it relatively simple to gain a CCW. If the service member lives in a state like California, Maryland , Jersey, NY, etc that make it very difficult to get a CCW, then I believe that some changes to laws would be necessary to help the SM get his permit. SMs shouldn't just be given a permit based only on the fact that they are on active duty.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 12:25 PM

2015-04-01T12:25:10-04:00

A CAC should not be the only qualifying factor. The M9 and rifle qualifications are a joke. They do not simulate a realistic scenario and they teach bad habits. Just because you can score well on them, it doesn't mean that you are safe with the weapon aystems. I wish I had a quarter for every time an "expert" pointed a gun at me. If a serviceman is going to carry (open or concealed) they should be trained better than what our "standard" is now.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-04-01T17:02:05-04:00

I would say yes, as long those service members/veterans do not have any medical or legal problems that are current and not resolved.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-04-02T11:18:55-04:00

Agreed.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-04-02T13:07:33-04:00

It depends, I think the first must meet requirements to even use the weapon. Just because they are military doesn't mean they know how to first; take care of the weapon and secondly use the weapon properly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-04-04T09:30:35-04:00

I can't imagine many of the leaders I have met in the Army carrying a pistol or even worse, reacting to a threat. Just because someone wears a military uniform does not mean they are qualified to always carry a loaded gun and for this to come to pass we could all expect a horrendous initial block of instruction with monthly classes added to our already busy schedules. No thanks!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 7:06 AM

2015-04-05T07:06:01-04:00

Speaking as an active duty service member, not all service members are trained to or capable of responsibly carrying a firearm. I would endorse this if it came with a requirement for a firearms handling course and minimum range time.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 10:13 AM

2015-04-07T10:13:27-04:00

Yes. If service members leave post or are in civilians they should be able to carry concealed weapons, I agree with this 100% Sergeant

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 7:12 AM

2015-04-08T07:12:47-04:00

I don't see this happening for many reasons to include returning 1st time deployers, Alcohol and the average Military personnel, infidelity, did I say Alcohol, and the fact that if you speak to Military personnel you will find that They advise that there are many Military Personnel that should not carry outside a very controlled environment with Green 2's and clearing barrels, and active involved management. And Alcohol.

Response by SFC Ronnie Seaton Jr made Apr 9 at 2015 5:57 PM

2015-04-09T17:57:40-04:00

Wow, that will be a lot of background checks. Yes, I vote yes. Now maybe some of these jokers would take going to the range serious.

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made Apr 10 at 2015 7:17 AM

2015-04-10T07:17:49-04:00

Yes with all the threats they need to stay ready
we do have some very sick nut case's out there
we don't need to be like the westerns.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 11:17 PM

2015-04-14T23:17:00-04:00

I like the idea of military being allowed to conceal carry however there should be another type of id for the purpose of concealed carry there are soldiers who are not trained on pistols, DA civilians and contractors have they same type of card and may not have any type of weapons training, some soldier like chaplains that receive no weapons training. Many soldier don't qualify on the pistol just rifle. Also soldiers that are flagged for UCMJ violations for certain crimes should not be able to carry. I am also sure that there are other good reason that a Soldier should not carry. I would like the ability for all solders to be able to carry concealed however there needs to be training for that and a it needs to be a separate permit I would also like to see that separate permit apply of post as well as on post in all 50 states.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 11:41 PM

2015-04-14T23:41:55-04:00

Coming from a state with extremely relaxed gun laws, Vermont, this idea is a reality for me. Within our unit we have full time law enforcement officers and brand new privates that exercise their right to carry (open and concealed in VT). More often then not, the people (not acting as soldiers while carrying) are responsible and contentious with their carrying and follow recognized etiquette. However there are, even within my small detachment 30pax, irresponsible and negligent soldiers that cross into less than professional behavior with their weapons off duty. Many factors play into this scenario but for the purpose of this thread I think it's important to recognize the false sense of preparedness that being a soldier and even being an MP provides, and especially the effect it has on a soldiers ego. Plainly, you have a fair amount of soldiers who get false bravado from being a soldier and get a little too big for their britches. This coupled with the ability to carry concealed across the country could easily play out into mistakes being made. To me it's not a question of rights but a question of being a responsible organization and recognizing realities.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-05-08T18:57:59-04:00

In some states civilians can carry almost everywhere (depending on states' laws) and not every state really requires very extensive training.

In one month of basic, military personnel get more training on weapons than most civilians get in decades.

So: Personally, I say maybe add a "concealed carry" class, and a "responsible carrying" class, and throw in some mandatory required annual qualification and range time, and I'm absolutely all for it - but I also believe that if you have a state concealed carry or other carry license, you should be able to carry any way, any place, any time, any weapon allowed by law.

To me, it makes no sense that you can send men and women down range to die for people, protect people, and guard people they don't know, but not give them the right to defend themselves at home or at work from terrorists and scum like William J. Kreutzer, Nidal Malik Hasan, or Ricky Elder!

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made May 8 at 2015 7:58 PM

2015-05-08T19:58:30-04:00

As a former Air Force cop, I would have to say the only people allowed to carry on post are authorized personnel (I.e. MP/SF/MA, OSI/CID, etc). Now, this is solely based on how things are in today's military. Active shooter has been a common trend than it was in year's past and allowing anyone on base to carry could increase the liklihood of such an event occurring. Second, PTSD has been a huge part of many military units and bases. While the people and support are in place to help deal with it, the disorder itself can make a service member unpredictable and allowing them to carry on post makes them more of a threat. Third, military police have enough to worry about without having to wonder if the next person they pull over is armed (and potentially dangerous). Ultimately, allowing military members to carry on base could result in an increased number of shootings--accidental and otherwise. In closing, most bases allow for the proper transport of personal weapons so AD, veterans and dependents can go out to the range or drop off or pick up at the base armory. During my time in service, a log was kept of who owned a firearm on base and had it stored in a service member's residence. This information was valuable, especially during domestic calls. Safety is priority one for the military and keeping everyone whole has been and always will be vital to the mission.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 8:20 PM

2015-05-08T20:20:24-04:00

Yes... however there should be formal training conducted that is more advanced than the CCW courses provided to civilians. rank may have its place in this as some feel only Officers and NCOs should be granted this but from my experience those individuals may not always be best.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made May 8 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-05-08T20:42:40-04:00

Uniformed people should be allowed to carry open anytime they are in uniform on or off post. Out of uniform, concealed on or off post.

If we can, as SM's, use fully automatic weapons, grenades, explosives and other weapons of choice, why can't we carry a simple handgun? This should also carry over for veterans released honorably.

We can put our lives on the line but not be trusted with a handgun? Utterly ridiculous!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-05-08T21:04:12-04:00

With the increased threats against service members, veterans, and their families. My answer is yes.
However, in order to accomplish this, those desuring to should be required to get legally registered.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-05-08T23:55:09-04:00

If you fully qualified with weaponry then with maybe some additional I believe we should be allowed to as we are sworn to the defense of our country and you never know when that could be no matter how big or small the situation is.

Response by SFC Bryan Reed made May 9 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-05-09T10:18:53-04:00

No, I do not think the CAC should be a license to for concealed carry. Too many Soldiers just do not have the discipline to carry weapons safely while deployed, much less in the general populace, and allowing them to carry just because they are military is not a good solution. I have had to correct too many Soldiers overseas about walking around FOB's, their weapons slung over their backs and not on safe, not to mention of all the unsafe handling of weapons I have seen from these "trained" Soldiers.
Should military members have the option to attend concealed carry training at no cost? Absolutely. In fact, they should be encouraged to. Everybody has the right to defend themselves, and I believe that since our men and women in our military are being targeted because of their service, they should be given the proper training to defend themselves at home.

Response by SPC Michael Clark made May 11 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-05-11T15:54:07-04:00

I believe that the "Posse Comitatus Act" may be a reason as to why all Active Service Members are not allowed to carry at all times in a Garrison environment. Even Military Police are not authorized to carry "off duty".

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/call/docs/10-16/ch_12.asp

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 8:24 PM

2015-05-20T20:24:33-04:00

I don't agree at all with this...
1) Remember we have to go with the lowest common denominator - untrained and undisciplined Service Memebers (Officers, NCOs, and enlisted alike). I have seen to many negligent discharges in Iraq by supposedly trainined and disciplined SMs...
2) Escalations of conflicts do regularly result in violence (both domestic and between SMs) and I am not willing to add firearms to the mix.
3) As much as many might disagree, this is why we have law enforcement within the confines of the United States and federal soil. How many times do SMs ask to aid Law Enforcement during routine enforcement and potetially muddle up communications and/or slow down responses? This could really be confusing in an active shooter scenario where Law Enforcement is trying to determine what is going on.
4) Even in rare circumsatances where self-protection is probably justified, it violates everyone's right to due process. I mean who the hell is to say Sparks is right if he discharges his firearm...?

We do have jobs in which select Officers, NCOs, and Enlisted may open carry firearms - our Military Police! ;)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 3:17 AM

2015-05-24T03:17:21-04:00

Personally, I believe that a non-civilian CAC and/or a retiree ID card, plus a valid carry permit* from any state should equal nationwide concealed carry ability**.

Additionally, once a service member has the ability to legally carry, either within their state or nationwide**, an endorsement from their command as to the individual's judgement and ability should allow carry on the installation to which they are associated, on or off duty.

I believe the valid state permit* is necessary because we have all seen people who barely meet the minimum standards at the range, and those people do not need to be in public without additional training and skills

I believe that the military command should ONLY be involved with regard to installation carry, as the right to carry the weapon in the first place is the individuals', separate from their military service.

*possibly replace this with certification from a gun safety/handling course or require both

**It would be amazing if this ever became a reality

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 2:25 PM

2015-05-24T14:25:54-04:00

Being from Utah conceal carry with a valid permit is Authorized on Nation Guard Installations already we have had zero problems and makes me safer knowing others are carrying.

However I would love to see this privilege extended to Federal Installations and when I have to travel or go up to a Federal Installation since it is currently not allowed to carry you have to figure out what to do with your firearm since it takes travel time to arrive.

I would like to see all service members with the Ability to protect our self when traveling on-duty or on Vacation with a Similar bill like the LESO.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-05-24T14:47:20-04:00

We're the Armed Forces not the Police. If you want to carry around a weapon get out of the Military and become a Police Officer. Certain laws were set in place after the Civil War, I personally believe there are not enough acts of Terrorism to justify having a weapon in America. I think this will only lead to some bad apples getting into trouble.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-05-24T14:50:21-04:00

Yes I do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-05-28T14:15:14-04:00

Yes, I think it is a viable option that should be pursued!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 8:30 PM

2015-06-03T20:30:38-04:00

YES PLEASE !!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 5:17 AM

2015-06-06T05:17:54-04:00

With increased domestic terrorist threats here in the United States? Hell Yes!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 20 at 2015 2:44 PM

2015-06-20T14:44:13-04:00

It's not "automatic" in Virginia. Virginia is a "Shall issue" State for Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) and Active Duty, Retired, and Veterans can use our military training as proof of weapons training (Basic Safety Course).

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2015 4:43 PM

2015-06-20T16:43:21-04:00

I think it depends on their job whether they are trained and have been qualified with that weapon. Not all military jobs deal with weapons on a daily basis.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jun 20 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-06-20T16:56:02-04:00

Georgia allows all Georgia and United States Military to carry openly or concealed without a permit, thus Georgia has Constitutional Carry for Military.

We need Constitutional Carry for civilians, too, in every State, territory, and district, and we need it now.

Since when do we need government permission slips for Constitutionally protected rights?

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Jun 20 at 2015 5:27 PM

2015-06-20T17:27:55-04:00

This should not be an automatic issuance. Just because someone served in the military, it does not make them an expert with a pistol. I know an Army Captain who has served close to 18 years enlisted and officer. He did not know anything about the M9 pistol and while I surprised to see that, it is a good example of why I do not support this. I think that military experience may give some credit towards some of the training, there needs to be more to it than that. And I live in a state where you can get your non-professional carry permit with just a DD214.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Jun 20 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-06-20T17:54:09-04:00

I am a full blown right to carry supporter. With exceptions of course. I am also full time care provider for my wife. I cannot leave her alone for longer than about an hour. SO the 12 hour class my state required kept me from getting my CCL for a long time. I finally found I could get a non resident permit from AZ using my DD214. And it is valid in my home state and 28 others. I now legally do what I should have been permitted to do for the past 40+ years...

Response by SPC Rudy Wall Jr made Jun 20 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-06-20T18:10:41-04:00

Yes, I think so, we're trained.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 20 at 2015 8:25 PM

2015-06-20T20:25:58-04:00

No. I am retired military AND a North Carolina Concealed Carry Instructor. I agree that they have had lots of weapons training, HOWEVER, in North Carolina a fourth of the class MUST BE about NC Law. LAW about what happens IF you use Deadly Force, your ROE if you will. Because, make no mistake friends, IF you resort to Deadly Force, it is WHEN you go to court NOT IF you go to court. It is critical that concealed carry holders KNOW the ROE.

Response by SPC Don Rae made Jun 20 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-06-20T21:09:26-04:00

Considering my daughter lives in VA with her husband and my grandson. Yes I think they should.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-06-20T21:32:12-04:00

Absolutely not. First, some military personnel do not possess the proper training to safety carry concealed. Second, you need formal training to understand the laws and protections around carrying concealed. You would be naive to carry concealed and not fully understand the laws you must obide by. Third, people's mental health status can change at the blink of an eye so for a retired member at any point to be able to carry around a concealed gun doesn't seem at all safe. Good intentions but a horrible idea.

Response by Cpl Kristoffer Mischel made Jun 20 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-06-20T21:38:13-04:00

I believe that the military training should be a sufficient substitute for a basic weapons course if it is required for the state you are living in. Fortunately I live in Washington State and I did not have to jump through that hoop. All I had to do is get finger printed, fill out my application and wait. I do believe that there should be a application and a process in order to get the permit. Even though I do have my CWP, Washington is a open carry state, so if I did want to carry I could. I don't think that a concealed permit should be just automatic.

Response by SGT Mike Rudd made Jun 20 at 2015 9:51 PM

2015-06-20T21:51:29-04:00

Yes if they are mentally stable I'm getting mine though it wasn't automatic , l wish it was!!!

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jun 20 at 2015 10:17 PM

2015-06-20T22:17:59-04:00

If I were on a desktop I would merge this into 'concealed carry for cac holders' from a few months ago that spurred my 'arm the armed forces' topic.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Jun 24 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-06-24T09:43:34-04:00

No way, that's why we have trained security forces, force protection and rapid response teams. Not all service members can qualify with small arms, there's some I would not allow to look at let alone touch a weapon. Can you imagine the accidental shootings? Remember all the misfires at the clearing stations? I understand the intent, but the number of incidents don't warrant such a drastic step.

Response by SGT Andrew Bronell made Jun 24 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-06-24T11:09:52-04:00

YES

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-06-24T15:57:57-04:00

Yes.

Response by PO1 Shahida Marmol made Jun 25 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-06-25T14:34:26-04:00

No! I have members on my ship right now not allowed to carry sure to "health and behavioral" issues

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 11:13 PM

2015-07-12T23:13:37-04:00

I think with the proper training and background checks and psych clearances, Concealed Carry should be allowed by current military personnel with valid CAC in all states with reciprocity between all of them.

Response by Cpl Karl Gleason made Jul 17 at 2015 6:51 PM

2015-07-17T18:51:14-04:00

Yes. Times have changed and the devil is walking among us everyday. Our country as a whole needs to wake up and prepaid themselves for more of this type of attack. I'm ready are you?

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Jul 18 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-07-18T14:27:57-04:00

What about contractors and other CAC holders?

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2015 3:32 PM

2015-07-18T15:32:08-04:00

I dont know who to trust with weapons these days, police are abusing their weapons like its some new trend and there are alot of untrustworthy people slipping through the cracks into the Armed forces. I jist dont know what to think

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2015 6:46 AM

2015-07-19T06:46:58-04:00

No. More than 14 years of conflict has produced a percentage of U.S. Army service members that are afflicted with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). How many service members are afflicted and who specifically are afflicted? It is undetermined. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder can be latent and later activated when the service member encounters or is confronted with an undesirable situation resulting in a manifestation of obsessive and compulsive behaviors that are not congruent with societal norms; further, a manifestation of invoked impulsive reactions resulting in violations of United States federal law by the wrongful death of Innocent American citizens and soldiers because of improper firearms control via a CAC. One wrongful death incident is all it would take to taint the privilege. Regardless service members training and skill with firearms, are all service members mentally stable enough to possess firearms within American civilian communities after 15 years of conflict? It is in the best interest of the United States military, not to arm such unidentifiable personnel. Although I support arming key security personnel in specific Army units, I do not support arming each individual soldier in the Army. A simple reorganization and reallocation of military police assets and security responsibilities is needed for individual and unit security; further, better coordination between civilian and military law enforcement.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jul 21 at 2015 1:39 AM

2015-07-21T01:39:12-04:00

As a retiree, I would like to carry on post also.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Jul 21 at 2015 4:49 PM

2015-07-21T16:49:06-04:00

I know I will get a rash of disagreements from this, but no, I don't think (all) uniformed military should be allowed to conceal carry anywhere in the U.S. with a CAC as an identifier/license due to increased threats to military personnel. If the scope and intent of this statement were narrowed down considerably I may be more open to a variant, but not as it is presented. We all know that in all branches of the military, we have those whose only experience is annual qualifications only, and this includes a great deal of our Officers and NCOs (And being honest, I really wouldn't want them armed). I would like to see an increase in those specialties across the military who work with weapons daily as part of their jobs (MP, SF, CA, etc) and that their duties be expanded to allow carrying on and off post while in uniform (These same personnel would also have to be CCW certified as well in order to carry out the function of "protecting our own and out country" to include patrols off the installations where we have troops conducting unarmed operations in civilian communities. I don't think arming everyone in the military, or just the NCOs and Officers is the answer, but increasing the number of those whose duty falls under this purview anyway, add a few additional rules and guidance to cover them, include a partnership with local law enforcement to allow responses in the vicinity outside an installation (so that there are no hard feelings) and that MAY take care of the passion attached to this issue...

Response by SSgt Lawrence Good made Aug 7 at 2015 11:41 AM

2015-08-07T11:41:56-04:00

No, not just service members- ALL citizens with a clean record should be able to.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-08-07T12:13:36-04:00

I think all uniformed personnel be federally eligible., but there should still be a process (no mental health issues on record and no domestic violence type stuff) but once your approved you should have a federal concealed carry permit that has authority in all states regardless of that states gun regulations.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Aug 10 at 2015 6:13 PM

2015-08-10T18:13:19-04:00

This is probably the NCO in me talking, but my biggest questions are related to implementation: will the firearms be government-issued or will privately-owned weapons be authorized? Will Servicemembers be trained in their use or is it up to them? Are there any places in which a ban on firearms trump the right to carry?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-08-23T07:56:40-04:00

I am not a teenager who needs to be babysat, I'm a grown American adult who responsibly owns and trains with a firearm, and have been so since long before I joined a profession that has required people to bring their own arms in many cultures through much of human history. If security is needed someplace not usually involving security forces (for instance, a recruiter's office), I can save an entire person's salary of money for the Air Force by just having my own weapon. I could even save someone's life.

If you can't trust someone in the military to be armed, dismiss them from duty.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 2:26 PM

2015-08-27T14:26:58-04:00

Military, does not equal law enforcement ... but in general, everyone should technically be able to.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-08-27T14:29:45-04:00

I wouldn't say all military members. There should be a screening process

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-09-03T20:37:46-04:00

plainly, simply, yes.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-09-05T11:47:21-04:00

I'm a small arms instructor at a military range in Mississippi. There are people that I wouldn't want to share a foxhole with, just by observing their weapons handling skills, or rather, lack thereof. That's not even saying a thing about their lack of knowledge when it comes to applying even BASIC marksmanship fundamentals on a static pistol range with no pressure other than the "2 rounds in 4 seconds" or "4 rounds in 10 seconds, firing 2, conducting a reload, and firing 2 more", even with coaches and Range Staff guiding those that NEED it 1-on-1.

And, while ours IS the profession of arms, to counter the "discharge them if they can't shoot" crowd", discharge non-shooters on what grounds? Not EVERYONE is a rock star when it comes to shooting. We just know who we can use to guard the janitors' closets and nothing else, but that still doesn't make them INCOMPETENT at their actual job. Week before last, we had a supply person that could NOT hit a bull's eye from a pre-sighted rifle locked in a lead-sled, but that person sure as shit processes our open-purchase requests and other supply requests like a champ, but then you have people like the crew out at my range, who are OK at our actual MOSs, but can hit 12/15 consistently on an "E" silhouette at 300 on irons.

That being said, effective concealed carry REQUIRES that you practice drawing from concealment. I don't know about you, but when I get home, I enjoy taking off my 'monkey suit', and not putting it back on unless I have duty or am heading back to work. Ergo, am I going to really (and I mean REALLY) want to put the uniform back on, on an off-day, and go pew-pew? I guess I would, provided the THREATCON was high enough to for me to feel it necessary; it's not that high yet.

And finally, you get into that realm of "personal firearms in uniform". Commanding officers CAN arm those that have a NEED for it with a government firearm. If you feel your need is that great, appeal to your Chain and justify why.

Response by SSgt Lawrence Good made Sep 9 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-09-09T11:54:14-04:00

Lots of comments here on RallyPoint about the training level needed for military members to be allowed to carry concealed in whatever state they are stationed in, or on base.

You don't need to be a pistol "expert" to safely and effectively carry a pistol for self protection. I make my current living partly from firearms training. NRA Training counselor, NRA Pistol Trainer for 7 years now. I can confidently say that the *minimum* skills necessary to be safe in public can be taught in a day. The judgement for when to use it can be introduced in a day and requires lifelong commitment to master. We've all been exposed to most of this already.

It's honestly much harder to master the physical skills and judgement necessary for driving a car than to carry a pistol in public. Most people do benefit *quite a bit* from attending training, even most military folks need some brush-up on fundamentals of pistol safety and operation. They also need to explore the concept of carrying "concealed" as opposed to as part of their duty gear, and ROE for being in a civilian self-defense situation.

However, let's take off our asshats for a second and rather than worrying about commanders' individual *liability*, start thinking about command *responsibilities* like force protection. (I know, "crazy talk".)

Would you rather depend upon the judgement of a relatively untrained individual who felt the sheepdog call strongly enough to raise their right hand and sign a blank check to the people of the United States of America, or would you rather have them disarmed with a target on their chest?

There will be mistakes. But we work in the Profession of Arms. We are meant to take risks on behalf of our society. If you want "safety", go be an accountant. If you're more worried about your career than your troops, you don't belong here.

Speed Bump

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-09-11T14:12:20-04:00

Has anyone else heard that the Supreme Court ruled that it is NOT the job of the police to "Protect" us. It's their job to try to prevent/investigate violent crimes. In most cases, they will get to the scene in minutes, when seconds count. So, it's up to us to protect ourselves and our families.They will also have to repaint a bunch of patrol cars.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 1:13 PM

2015-09-28T13:13:32-04:00

... federal law ... why we even talk about this?

If only we train our armed force a lot more on "armed", maybe then people will allow us to carry for "self defense".

Response by SPC Michael Clark made Oct 1 at 2015 8:45 PM

2015-10-01T20:45:28-04:00

The Posse Comitatus Act prevents service members from being able to act as local, state and federal law enforcement agencies can.

Largely due to the Civil War, apparently soldiers would "take over" civilian homes to set up HQ.

It was Congress who passed this act. Therefore, the law prevents service members from being an organized response team in the territories of the United States of America.

Now, if the were to be an "Open War" within the territorial lands of the USA, perhaps the Congress will allow soldiers to do as soldiers do.

Until that occurs, the United States Military is not a police force.

As an individual, a person who just happens to be a service member can can while off post, and while on post must adhere to the Installation Policies, and Unit SoPs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-10-02T09:33:21-04:00

I say yes and no. While I think every member in our armed forces should carry a weapon to protect their selves and others around them, I can prolly say every unit has those one or two soldiers everyone is more worried about when they have a weapon. Now what I do think is that ALL CAC holders should have access to Conceal Carry Classes, Weapons safety classes, and any class that could better them in handling weapons. The NO part comes from people who have little to no training. Until those people and even NCO, Warrants and Officers do the initial class or a refresher, they should not be allowed to carry.

Note: I do have my conceal carry permit and I do carry everyday.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Oct 13 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-10-13T10:39:07-04:00

You have to be careful when you say CAC card holders. I have read through a lot of the threads and it seems that this conversation seems to be one sided. I am a CAC card holder, I'm even retired Army, and yes I am a concealed carry permit holder. So what I am seeing is just conversation about Active Duty Soldiers being CCW on base. My opinion...wrong answer. How is it that Soldiers carry on post, but not the civilians who have completed the training and have probably been concealed carry for a long time?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-12-13T19:46:38-05:00

Yes

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Jun 2 at 2016 12:21 PM

2016-06-02T12:21:04-04:00

Bad idea. Twenty years of active duty as a JAG have convinced me that would be a terrible idea. Face it -- the military is full of young people all in excellent physical condition. Young people tend to be emotional and prone to being hasty -- that's why we have senior NCOs. Putting more guns out there is appealing to some but I saw an airman go to jail for killing another airman over a spilled beer in the club. GIs have been stabbed, beaten and beheaded (husband chopped off lover's head in a casern in Germany, put it in a bowling bag and brought it to his wife in the Hospital and set the head on the breakfast tray) and otherwise murdered and mutilated spouses, lovers and friends, so giving them unfettered access to deadly weapons will just elevate the body count ON BASE. So settle down and enjoy the fact that crime is so very low on any military installation.
Now -- to stop those mass murders -- everybody needs to take a Xanax and chill out because it seems to me stress is what is tipping all those crazy people over into action.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jun 9 at 2016 11:37 PM

2016-06-09T23:37:39-04:00

As long as the individual is on active status (Not on leave or other inactive duty status such as pregnancy leave), I see no reason not to be armed IF the member chooses. The member also has the right to NOT carry as well.

Response by Cpl Karl Gleason made Jun 17 at 2016 6:12 AM

2016-06-17T06:12:39-04:00

I don't have a problem with all military members carrying. But, they must be trained and schooled on local laws. I see no reason why the government can't provide this training either. We trust these kids today with access to things far more dangerous than a handgun.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 12:05 PM

2016-06-28T12:05:30-04:00

They should still have to follow state and local laws regarding age restrictions, but other than that, I can agree that most of us Soldiers and other branches have a very strict discipline when it comes to weapons and safety and when and where to use their right of self defense.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 3:55 PM

2016-06-30T15:55:01-04:00

Not everyone. Some people are dangerous shooting on STATIC ranges (I worked at a Navy small arms range in South Mississippi for just over 3 years, and saw over 6,000 personnel roll through in that time), never mind a dynamic and fluid environment with bystanders. There would definitely need to be some type of dynamic-shooting criteria that would have to be met, plus 'shoot / no-shoot' training (JET). Allowing personnel to carry just because they have a CAC? Not so much.

Response by SPC Kirk Gilles made Jul 10 at 2016 4:45 AM

2016-07-10T04:45:29-04:00

Lest we forget Officer Tackleberry, "When do we get the guns?" Carte Blanche to everyone in the military? Guns get lost, stolen, AD'd, found by kids, used to lawfully and unlawfully threaten, scare people when seen sticking out of the shirt at banks, movies...Oh, us cops do all the aforementioned things with our guns too. We are supposed to know better. PVT Snuffy gonna contain his Desert Eagle?
Recruitment might benefit: Join the Army and get a CCW.
Another Tackleberry moment, "Time to deploy for school!" Good stuff

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 7:13 AM

2016-07-10T07:13:26-04:00

Many of you are looking at the whole mag capacity thing wrong. Do it like 3 Gun Nation does and have it fit a given dimension. For a XDm9 that would be 19, a M&P9 17, Sig226 40 15 and so on and require standard law enforcement calibers with maybe the exception of .380, anything less is dangerous and anything more overkill. Holsters are another matter. No one wants to get shot with their own gun. I know what I carry is not ideal for a new private so I'm gonna leave that one alone. I understand the idea of Officers and NCO's carrying but to not let jr. soldiers carry sends the message that they don't matter. Difficult questions to be sorted out be persons higher than me.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Aug 11 at 2016 4:04 PM

2016-08-11T16:04:49-04:00

Not until all personnel with waivers for felonies are kicked out, and there are no waivers for that at all.
At that point, then yes. It should be considered a duty item.

Response by MSG Bob Metz made Sep 10 at 2016 12:26 AM

2016-09-10T00:26:13-04:00

Negative - the is good reason for command to control weapons on post...I have seen to many regardless of age and experience lose control...I've see it due to drugs, alcohol, lack of self control, anger issues, mental issues etc...guaranteed you will have increased crime on and off base..,incidental shootings...the year I got to Korea the Korean military stopped officers from carrying weapons...why...to many were shooting enlisted they felt were disrespecting them...this was occurring on and off base...I like it just the way it is...

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2016 9:40 AM

2016-12-07T09:40:06-05:00

I look at some of the people I've served with over the years, and shudder to think of them with concealed weapons. A guy by the name of Ken Steinhoff comes to mind. I believe he might shoot himself and other people accidentally.

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 31 at 2018 4:48 PM

2018-01-31T16:48:38-05:00

Nope, Ive seen too many AD soldiers not know how to handle, load or keep safe a rifle they supposedly trained on for 9 months. Why would you want them carrying a brand new weapon system they've never trained on?

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 31 at 2018 7:18 PM

2018-01-31T19:18:00-05:00

What threats are those? Have you been threatened?

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Jul 8 at 2018 4:53 PM

2018-07-08T16:53:51-04:00

I agree with letting soldiers carry on post and off post but using the cac idea as a chl is not going to work if you pull out your cac card in a rural area or in an area away from a military base local law enforcement is not going to know that the cac card is used as a chl in that state if you don't have your chl you are going to jail I don't care whether you are a 4 star or a private

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2018 3:54 PM

2018-11-20T15:54:52-05:00

I don't know, in the 82nd, there were some solders from a platoon that went out in NC and robbed a bank with guns.

Response by SPC Russ Bolton made Apr 3 at 2020 8:56 PM

2020-04-03T20:56:03-04:00

Yes they should. They're trained just as well and if not more trsoned to bhave that right

Response by LCpl Russell Wallace made Apr 4 at 2020 2:49 AM

2020-04-04T02:49:24-04:00

No. Jesus Christ no.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 21 at 2021 12:52 PM

2021-06-21T12:52:36-04:00

No.
As a Concealed Carry Instructor from North Carolina, I would say no. Most service members are not rained to carry a side-arm, but rather a rifle. Concealed Carry requires that the carrier:
1) Be PROFICIENT, not Familiar, but PROFICIENT with the sidearm they are carrying.
2) Be Knowledgeable, not familiar, but Knowledgeable of the laws concerning Conceal Carry, and use of deadly force.
3) Be Proficient in employing from the carry, not from the "Range Ready" position.

Service members are not trained in these areas. It would be nice if the services trained the personnel to that level but unfortunately they do not.