Confederate flag removal knowledge. Thoughts?

2015-07-05T22:50:48-04:00

A little history lesson, the Confederate flag many wish to remove was merely a battle flag, and looked nothing like the Confederate/ Rebel flag we see flown today. This battle flag was flown in efforts to determine who's who on the battle, because the Union, and Confederate flags were so similar it was hard to differentiate the two in battle. Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Jul 5 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-07-05T23:01:17-04:00

Well at the rate pepole are going there will be know reason to teach any type of history. ...it might offend some group and then it will be erased.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-07-05T23:01:26-04:00

I would imagine most people who have participated in discussions of this ilk are aware of this fact. I am not sure how it is directly relevant to the key issues. (Namely, does the Confederate Battle Flag represent the historical ideology of the seceding states? If so, what was that ideology?) To the former question, I would say yes. To the latter question, I would examine the Southern states' respective declarations of causes for secession.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 5 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-07-05T23:51:37-04:00

Actually, the flag you have labeled as the Confederate flag (square flag with red field, blue x-cross with stars) was the Flag of The Army of Northern Virginia, which was Gen. Lee's unit. The Rebels needed a means to which identify their forces as the first flag looked too similar to the Union flag. Lee's men adopted this new flag going into the Battle of Manassas and it remained a long-term fixture of the unit, Confederacy and south ever since.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jul 6 at 2015 3:31 AM

2015-07-06T03:31:04-04:00

Great post, well said and articulately expressed!

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 6 at 2015 7:55 AM

2015-07-06T07:55:38-04:00

Beyond the word play or how you want to spin the topic, my issue with this whole thing is simply this; the Confederate flag is part of our nation's history. Good, bad or indifferent it is part of who we are. Removing it is along the same lines as removing it from our history books? What is going to happen to history lessons and art work? Are we going to see the Confederate flag replaced by a black box? There are flags such as the ISIS Battle Flag and the flag of the Nazi Party that are still around and these flags bring up more hatred than the Confederate flag. I think the call for it's removal was nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to a terrible incident.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jul 9 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-07-09T12:29:16-04:00

Variants on a theme. Supporters cite it as a source of pride. Detractors as a source of racism. To my mind, the question was answered when that crackpot took a selfie with the Confederate flag in one hand, pistol in the other and shot NINE people in a church.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Aug 10 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-08-10T15:19:21-04:00

Well, Georgia got the right idea of removing Confederate Memorial Day as a holiday. The Robert E Lee holiday I don't mind so much. However, I strongly object to taking a holiday to observe a cause that damn near split this country in two and whose repercussions we still feel.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/georgia-confederate-memorial-holiday-feat/index.html

Georgia removes Confederate holidays from state calendar - CNN.com

Confederate Memorial Day and Robert E. Lee's birthday have been struck from Georgia's official calendar and replaced with the innocuous term "state holiday."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 2:33 AM

2015-11-04T02:33:43-05:00

And yet people stil back up that flag,its a terrorist flag period.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Nov 4 at 2015 8:03 AM

2015-11-04T08:03:16-05:00

In point of fact...

The CSA didn’t really have much success on the battlefield. Federal battle deaths were 110,000, CSA battle deaths were 94,000. Since the so-called CSA was on the defensive, and the recent wide spread use of the rifled musket magnified defensive power at the expense of offensive power, those figures should show –many- more federal deaths than CSA deaths, in keeping with Napoleon’s dictum that it takes three attackers to drive off one defender. The rebels also had the advantage of interior lines.

Federal armies in the ‘West’ went pretty much from victory to victory throughout the war, capturing Forts Henry and Donelson early in 1862, occupying Nashville not long after that, driving into north Mississippi to cut the east-west rail line to Texas, driving off CSA army after army in the investment of Vicksburg, where an entire army was captured, driving the rebels out of middle Tennessee and capturing Chattanooga, inexorably advancing on and capturing Atlanta, Savannah and Columbia. The single bad check of the western federal armies was at Chickamauga.

In the eastern theater, Lee had as little success outside Virginia as various federal generals had within it. He is vastly overrated. After he wrecked his own army for offensive operations, he operated primarily on the defensive in an era when defensive technologies were dominant.

Finally, when the big plantation owners reneged on their pledge to raise food stuffs to feed the soldiers’ families, the rebel armies melted away. All that “you fought all the way Johnnie Reb’ is a lot of road apples.

One thing to keep in mind about the so-called CSA is that it never really existed. The various rebel states passed secession documents – you can do the same thing. But since they were no more able than you to give them force, the so-called CSA was just what President Lincoln called them: Combinations too powerful to be dealt with by the US Marshals.

As the so-called CSA was busy collapsing and its armies were melting away, President Lincoln was criticized for treating with the legislature of Virginia. He had not done that he said, he dealt with a group who styled themselves as the legislature of Virginia, because they had power to effect events.

Walt

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Dec 9 at 2015 5:59 AM

2015-12-09T05:59:45-05:00

As we can on any important problem, we can refer to the Great Santini.

When his kids wanted to sing Dixie as they drove in the station wagon to their next duty station Santini informed them in no uncertain terms that Dixie was the song for losers.

Walt

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Dec 9 at 2015 11:05 AM

2015-12-09T11:05:52-05:00

The funny thing is that the CSA didn’t really have much success on the battlefield. There is not much to honor.

Federal battle deaths were 110,000, CSA battle deaths were 94,000. Since the so-called CSA was on the defensive, and the recent wide spread use of the rifled musket magnified defensive power at the expense of offensive power, those figures should show –many- more federal deaths than CSA deaths, in keeping with Napoleon’s dictum that it takes three attackers to drive off one defender. The rebels also had the advantage of interior lines.

Federal armies in the ‘West’ went pretty much from victory to victory throughout the war, capturing Forts Henry and Donelson early in 1862, occupying Nashville not long after that, driving into north Mississippi to cut the east-west rail line to Texas, driving off CSA army after army in the investment of Vicksburg, where an entire army was captured, driving the rebels out of middle Tennessee and capturing Chattanooga, inexorably advancing on and capturing Atlanta, Savannah and Columbia. The single bad check of the western federal armies was at Chickamauga.

In the eastern theater, Lee had as little success outside Virginia as various federal generals had within it. He is vastly overrated. After he wrecked his own army for offensive operations, he operated primarily on the defensive in an era when defensive technologies were dominant.

Finally, when the big plantation owners reneged on their pledge to raise food stuffs to feed the soldiers’ families, the rebel armies melted away. All that “you fought all the way Johnnie Reb’ is a lot of road apples.

One thing to keep in mind about the so-called CSA is that it never really existed. The various rebel states passed secession documents – you can do the same thing. But since they were no more able than you to give them force, the so-called CSA was just what President Lincoln called them: Combinations too powerful to be dealt with by the US Marshals.

As the so-called CSA was busy collapsing and its armies were melting away, President Lincoln was criticized for treating with the legislature of Virginia. He had not done that he said, he dealt with a group who styled themselves as the legislature of Virginia, because they had power to effect events.

Walt

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 11 at 2017 12:18 PM

2017-05-11T12:18:10-04:00

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Sep 11 at 2017 8:15 AM

2017-09-11T08:15:52-04:00

I do NOT feel that an individual displaying any of those colors is necessarily racist. I do however believe that governments, which should seek to represent the entire populace, should be very careful about open displays of these symbols. I perceive no value in flying one over the State House, or Governor's residence, for example.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2017 10:08 AM

2017-09-11T10:08:12-04:00

Actually it was only flown by Lee's army, the Army of Northern Virginia, but some how about a century later it became the dominant symbol for allot of the South.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Sep 11 at 2017 10:41 AM

2017-09-11T10:41:14-04:00

For me this flag thing has been an odd duck to watch.

As a Northerner, if I saw one of those flags around here 150 years ago that dude carrying it would be trying to kill me, and I him. The greater point being I have no real connection to that flag; as I am not Black nor a Southerner nor the descendant of someone who fought in the war, the only meaning it has to me is that it rode atop the General Lee on the Dukes of Hazard (Can we all agree regardless of general flag opinion to at least give that one a pass? The car itself was a character on the show and in fairness, them Dukes were never meanin' no harm!). And yet, I have seen (and knew) a few Black folk and white Northerners who claim that flag-hence part of my puzzlement.

I know symbology--flags in particular--have powerful psychological meaning to people; so that I get. I accept that this flag holds different meanings to different groups of people, and to me it seems like each group is looking to set THE definition for the meaning of the flag. Not sure that will go anywhere.

I have nothing vested in this nor do I have any passions about that flag either way. I simply fail to "get it", and as a complete outsider, I'm not sure I am supposed to get it.

Lastly, SSG Johnson, were you quoting G.I. Joe at the end there? ;-)

Response by Jason Shell made Nov 7 at 2019 9:07 PM

2019-11-07T21:07:23-05:00

He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it!!

Response by SFC Herve Abrams made Dec 8 at 2019 11:36 PM

2019-12-08T23:36:00-05:00

There are several Confederate flags. Regardless of which is displayed, this is what those flags represent according to the words of the Vice President of the Confederate StatesOf America:

In what’s now known as the “Cornerstone Speech,” Stephens told a Savannah, Ga., crowd in 1861 that “our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas [as those of slavery foes]; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
He went further: the battle over slavery “was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.”

It’s my opinion Confederate flags should only be displayed in museums and pictured in history books. They deserve no place of honor and should be considered symbols of hate. Alexander Stephens made it abundantly clear the Confederacy was established to support white supremacy and the subjugation of people of color. The same sentiments are expressed in the Articles if Secession of many of the Confederate States.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2020 6:16 PM

2020-07-19T18:16:52-04:00

My oath of enlistment is follow

I do solemnly swear

that I will support and defend the constitution

of the United States against all enemies,

foreign or domestic;

that I will bear truth faith

and allegiance to the same;

and that I will obey the orders

of the President of the United States

and orders of the officers

appointed over me,

according to regulations

and Uniform Code of Military Justice

So help me God.

Is this not Constitutional protected speech and freedom of expression, are we swore to protect our Constitution, what next? DOD is not a social experiment.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2020 8:18 AM

2020-12-25T08:18:23-05:00

Flags of traitorous losers don’t deserve to be remembered outside of educational settings. And they certainly don’t deserve to be honored.

These particular traitorous losers took arms against their countrymen; their families and their nation to assert their right to own black slaves. A right they protect in perpetuity in the Confederate a constitution.

So...*any* flags created by and for the Confederacy should be removed.