Considering career change - interested in Engineer Officer (12A), but recruiter suggested Enlisted (12B) first, then go to OCS - is he right?

Andrew Ruiz — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:58:21 -0500

Apologies for the duplicate post - I posted an updated originally. Please delete

Hello,

I have a BS and an MBA in my field, have worked 10 years and have gotten to the point where I feel I've accomplished everything I want to in my field, from pay to title. While I haven't exactly decided what I want to do yet, I have always wanted to be an officer in the military (considered other branches too); however it was never the right time, but I realized it's never going to be the 'right' time. Either way, my desire to do something else and desire to become an officer have me here considering joining the army, either national guard, or just regular army. I am seriously leaning towards doing three years of active duty in order to have my schooling paid for and some salary while I go to school once I complete my active duty service. As I said I wanted to have a career change, so that is definitely a big incentive for me.

In looking at my 'choices', I have been strongly leaning towards combat engineering, and while I understand officer's don't pick their job assignments, a recruiter told me to sign up as an enlisted, 12B, and once I complete training, apply to OCS where I would have a better chance at becoming a 12A since I would already be a Combat Engineer. Is there any truth to that? Are there any downsides to that approach? I imagine it's based on number of openings, so could I see myself playing the waiting game and be stuck as enlisted for a while? Or would I be able to do OCS almost immediately after, then play the waiting game for an opening in EBOLC? I have this concern that I'm going to be stuck as enlisted for an indefinite amount of time until something opens up on the officer side.

Thank you.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 8 at 2021 11:06 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:06:21 -0500

Your standard Canvassing Recruiter will suggest you enlist because that is their job and what they get credit for. I would recommend you speak to someone in regards to commissioning.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 8 at 2021 11:20 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:20:13 -0500

If you have a college degree (even an associate) then I would NOT go enlisted. Go ROTC and then apply for active duty once you are a graduate.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 11:23 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:23:42 -0500

Your recruiter is trying to screw you for his personal benefit. One more thing you need to know is that your desire to become a 12A isn’t entirely in your hands. You still have to place well enough at OCS to get high enough in your class to pick your career field. Even then, it isn’t a guarantee that you’ll get your choice because it all depends on the number of slots available for each branch.

Response by Lt Col Harry Clawson made Feb 8 at 2021 11:29 AM

Lt Col Harry Clawson — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:29:51 -0500

I don’t think the recruiter is being honest with you. If you have a bs and ms already plus 10 years in the field I and meet the medical and age requirements(limits) it would seem you should be able to go direct OCS and commission as engineer. If you can’t we (military) are being stupid. I was a 62 E in usaf for a while and while many of the engineers I worked with were prior enlisted I don’t think any had bs let alone a ms when they enlisted. Some on here went the OCS route — I would look for a direct call to OCS for your desired branch to talk to them. Skip that recruiter, if I were you or talk to another one. Consider what you want to do as well— USAF and space Command (which I was a part of as 62E) has some really great engineering opportunities in space and technology — they would likely love to have someone like you as a lieutenant!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 11:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:32:24 -0500

If you are qualified to go Officer route from the beginning... GO THAT ROUTE! I serve with a bunch of 12B's that thought the same thing. They could for sure go OCS now, but they are just not going to. Do your self a favor and just go officer from the start. Your enlisted will not sway your Officer job at all ...

Response by MAJ Jason Sierakowski made Feb 8 at 2021 11:33 AM

MAJ Jason Sierakowski — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:33:10 -0500

If you have a undergraduate and graduate degree it is absolutely rediculous for you to enlist. You would be a Specialist (E-4).

You should speak to an officer recruiter. Just simply ask your recruiter, "who is the officer recruiter in the area?".... They know who they are.... If your recruiter doesn't tell you then speak to the person that runs the recruiting station.

Clearly you would submit an OCS packet. Depending on your your degrees, GPA, athletics, volunteering, etc will determine how competitive you are.

Your not at the point to be concerned about MOSs, jobs. Realistically, submit for OCS, do your 3 years and either get out or stay in..... Thousands of officers do this early, they join just to pay for school......

But don't waste your time with the resume you have just to be enlisted... You will kick yourself everyday complaining..... I promise, you don't want that!

Response by CPT James Kinane made Feb 8 at 2021 12:55 PM

CPT James Kinane — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 12:55:55 -0500

This is a simplified way to explain, but think of your recruiter as a salesman at a local Chevrolet truck dealer. Based upon what you've told him, he knows you're really interested in getting a GMC. But he doesn't sell GMC, he sells Chevrolet.

He's not going to get anything out of it by sending you to the GMC dealer, and he knows this. Because they're both owned by General Motors, he'll try and sell you on an idea that's it's better to buy the Chevy first and get the GMC later.

And if you were evaluating a truck purchase, you'd probably see right away that he's trying to play you for a sucker.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 1:23 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 13:23:28 -0500

If you ultimately want to be an Officer, there is no reason to go enlisted first. If you go enlisted first and something happens (not selected for OCS, injured) then you are stuck as a Private.
Keep in mind that there are Combat Engineer positions in the Army Reserve, Active Duty, and National Guard.
My suggestion is to go Active first and then Reserves if you don't like Active duty. The advantage of Reserves over National Guard is the ability to progress in rank quicker since you are not restricted by the availability of positions within one State.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 2:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 14:02:36 -0500

If you go active duty you don't get to choose what field you will be branched into. You won't be any more likely to be selected as a 12A just because you were a 12B, ultimately the needs of the Army trump all.

It might be worth going enlisted first if you aren't offered a Student Loan Repayment as an officer. I don't know anything about Recruiting, so I can't answer that. You can apply for OCS at any point you want if you do choose to enlist first. Your concern about being stuck enlisted while waiting for something to open up is unfounded, that's just not how the process works. When you go to OCS you will immediately be slotted for your BOLC afterwards. You will also be pinned to 2LT immediately upon graduation of OCS. Shortly before you graduate you will find out what branch you were given.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Feb 8 at 2021 2:17 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 14:17:18 -0500

Let me suggest another option. The National Guard has a loan forgiveness program for Federal Student Loans that is available for enlisted and Officer Candidates. The reason I suggest that is the Guard Candidates have more say in their Branch in addition to having different programs to attend OCS.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 2:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 14:21:14 -0500

I also would not advise going enlisted, and then to OCS. You have your BS that’s good, do you have your EIT under your belt? Your PE? If you’ve worked 10 years in engineering and haven’t got these two items in your possession, I would say you haven’t accomplished everything you need to do. Your PE allows you to practice the profession, if you don’t get your license you will always have to practice engineering under the umbrella of another’s license. I am retired now and don’t hire anymore, but if I were looking at what you present: in the back of my mind, I would be asking myself why a person is getting into the nuts and bolts of engineering when they went for a MBA instead of a MS. I’m just giving you some food for thought of what any decision maker is going to be thinking.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 4:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 16:46:48 -0500

The recruiters want you to sign up for a MOS they'll get credit for in the yearly quotas/goals. I do not believe they'll get any credit for an OCS Option or other Officer contract.

Response by Andrew Ruiz made Feb 8 at 2021 5:24 PM

Andrew Ruiz — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:24:24 -0500

Thank you all for your replies! I will individually respond to them. To be clear, the recruiter mentioned enlisted as an option, but did mention the officer route, but seemed to push the enlisted route. It definitely sounds like enlisted shouldn't be considered in my case.

To clarify, I am not an engineer by trade, I work in finance. As noted, I'm interested in Combat Engineering, which is not engineering in the sense of a mechanical engineer (might be stating the obvious here to some of you), and I completely understand and am fine with that. Although mechanical/aerospace engineering is something that I have considered as a new career path after serving.

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Feb 8 at 2021 6:00 PM

CDR Terry Boles — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 18:00:00 -0500

Good advice from others, speak to an Officer Recruiter. There is no reason to go enlisted and hope-wish-make a deal with the devil to get OCS later.

Also, since you are interested in Engineering as an officer, explore what is available in the other branches of services which may offer other opportunities such as Navy Seabees, Marine Combat Engineers, and Air Force Civil Engineers. I have been both an enlisted and officer recruiter during my career, and I always suggested to my applicants to see what other branches of service have to offer. After all, it is their decision to join and they should be informed to make the best decision. Don't forget the needs of the service (accession quotas) are different between each branch of service and one might be more aggressively recruiting. You do need to decide what type of service best fits your expectations i.e. active duty, Guard, or reserves which is another good reason to explore other branches of service.

Best of luck!

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Feb 8 at 2021 10:00 PM

CPT Andrew Wright — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 22:00:40 -0500

Your Recruiter wants to write the easy contract. If you enlist it might be several years before you make it to OCS. If go thru the local OCS selection process you will get your basic training and OCS scheduled and guaranteed in the contract. Best of Luck and get another recruiter if you need to.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 8 at 2021 11:37 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 23:37:42 -0500

DO NOT enlist immediately in any Service. You need to talk to Active Duty officer recruiters from Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, Air Force, and Space Force. Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force have Reserve units and Reserve Recruiters. The Army and Air Force have National Guard units and National Guard Recruiters. That's about 12 recruiters. Every Service lists requirements for becoming an officer on their web page, e.g., http://www.af.mil. Review these requirements. The requirements for the Reserve and Guard of any Service should be the same as active duty. I think all of the Services require a bachelors degree to be an officer. If you are a US Citizen and think you can pass the physical and score high enough on the testing, then you should apply for Officer Candidate School (OCS). Recruiters may honestly tell you that the application process may take some time. They may tell you that some people are denied or disqualified. And they may tell you that prior-enlisted service members make better officers.

You know if you can afford to take a year or more to apply for an OCS slot. I say waiting a year is better than serving 4 years enlisted and not getting into OCS. Once you're enlisted, your supervisors and managers will control much of your opportunity to apply for OCS. Waivers are available for some requirements or limits, such as age and some physical issues. Being enlisted won't change any factors that may disqualify you for OCS.

Every recruiter you talk to is working to achieve their recruiting goals. Making these goals is an important part of their performance evaluation and the evaluations of their supervisors, officers, and units. This may cause the recruiter to give you information that pushes you in a direction that satisfies the Service's requirements. These requirements may or may not match your personal goals or be in your best interests. Be very careful. Ask lots of questions. Read everything.

I don't know what your degree is in, so advising you about a particular specialty is difficult. You indicated an interest in Combat Engineering. I'm guessing you might have an engineering degree. In addition to combat engineering, career areas to consider might be, Army Corps of Engineers who handle major civil engineering projects for the Army and other Services. The Navy has the Seabees. An interesting group that builds ports, airports, and other facilities supporting sea-to-shore operations. The Air Force has civil engineering officers who lead units developing and maintaining Air Fore installations. The Army, Navy, and Air Force have engineering officers working in research and development in a wide range of fields from aeronautics to ship building. Your masters degree and any certifications are a plus in making you an attractive OCS candidate.

The Official Home Page of the U.S. Air Force

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Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2021 8:13 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 08:13:52 -0500

Here's a clue. The Recruiter survives the tour of duty by writing enlisted contracts. With your degrees you should be able to figure the rest out. There's nothing wrong with being enlisted, but at your age time is not on your side. There are more people and great opportunities in the Army, but at least talk to a USMC Officer Selection Officer (OSO, or whatever they call it now) first. You may be outside the age requirement already. I was in Engineers and it is a tight knit community. The Engr initiation many years ago was a hoot. Involves a hatchet, stump and blindfold. If you can hit the stump blindfolded you pass. They remove your cover and place it on the stump first, unbeknown to you. Late 70s.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2021 2:08 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 14:08:31 -0500

PAE is often looking for USAF officers with an Engineering degree (ABET-accredited) for our Base Operations Support contract at the Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM. Our current vacancies for Engineers follow. Please apply to be considered:
Operations Civil Engineer
https://pae.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/PAE_Careers/job/US-NM-Albuquerque/Operations-Civil-Engineer_R0054795-2
Engineering Project Execution Manager
https://pae.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/PAE_Careers/job/US-NM-Albuquerque/Engineering-Project-Execution-Manager_R0052099
Project Manager (Facility Maintenance and Construction experience)
https://pae.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/PAE_Careers/job/US-NM-Albuquerque/Project-Manager_R0051097-2
Thank you for your interest and any referrals you can send my way!
Sharon Wuerl, PAE Recruiter
[login to see]

Workday

Response by MSgt Ted C Hall made Feb 9 at 2021 3:11 PM

MSgt Ted C Hall — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 15:11:27 -0500

Sounds like your salesperson/recruiter is blowing smoke up your skirt. The advice to contact an officer recruiter is good.

I had an a33h0le Army recruiter run ahead of things and schedule me to head off to basic before I'd signed anything. He insisted I was already enlisted and had to go.

I had to threaten letting the family lawyers have him for a snack to stop an illegal con game...

Fortunately our lawyer's name was familiar to SSgt Sharpe since he'd just been elected to the State House (his associates would have handled the suit)

I walked out with every scrap of paper with my information on it, including a Rolodex card...

The Air Force recruiter was straight with me and I left that job 20 years and two weeks later. Only got orders to Vietnam once and they got cancled as I was boarding the C-141. Spent the rest of the "Vietnam Era" keeping landing systems working for the guys coming home.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2021 5:00 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:00:53 -0500

Sounds like your recruiter needs numbers. Don't do it

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2021 6:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 18:06:21 -0500

Fuuu that. 12B is a dead end. Get a job that is a direct link to a civilian job. 20 year 12B and all I got was this disability rating.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2021 9:32 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 09:32:42 -0500

If you joined the Guard or reserve as an officer you could pick your branch.

Response by SGT Shirley Wendt made Mar 13 at 2021 3:02 AM

SGT Shirley Wendt — Sat, 13 Mar 2021 03:02:57 -0500

For what it is worth, my opinion. I had my BS degree and decided to enlist in the Army. Since I didn't have ROTC or Jr. ROTC I had no real idea of what military life was going to be like. I talked to my recruiter and he said I would have to go before a board to even get into OCS. He did say that once I was in I could submit for OCS. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to go enlisted. What if I didn't like the military and now I would have to be in some type of leadership role. I am so glad I did. I went in as an E-3 and after basic training was promoted to E-4. To understand what it is like to be enlisted first made sense, if I wanted to be a great officer. I came across so many officers who truly didn't understand or appreciate the enlisted ranks. Not to say they all were like that but many were. I completed my enlistment but didn't go to OCS. A dual military couple with a child at the time I was in was VERY difficult and I didn't reenlist, but made the decision to be a stay at home mom for a while. Looking back I never regretted my decision of joining the Army and going enlisted. As a matter of fact, if I was in charge, I would make all officers serve at least two years of enlisted time first. One of the first principles of good leadership is to be able to be a good follower.

Proud to be an Army veteran.
Shirley Wendt

Response by CSM Tim Bebus made Mar 21 at 2021 6:34 PM

CSM Tim Bebus — Sun, 21 Mar 2021 18:34:24 -0400

He's not wrong, but it's his opinion. He has a mission to get enlisted members. So of course he would want you to go that route first. There are Officer Recruiters that you can speak with as well to help you make that decision. However unless you are going into a reserve component you are not guaranteed a branch. Exception for professional degrees like a Doctor, Lawyer Nurse etc...

Response by SFC Douglas Entwistle made Mar 26 at 2021 1:35 AM

SFC Douglas Entwistle — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:35:30 -0400

The recruiter is biased. He's under pressure to write contracts. Having an advanced degree will carry more weight in boards than the years enlisted. Boards will still run down your preferences regardless. There may not be a ton of 12A needs at that time. That's the crap shoot.

Also, the College Loan Repayment Program is rife with problems.

My advice is to call the recruiting battalion headquarters or the recruiting company leadership team and find an officer recruiter. There will be some stink between your recruiter/ Station Commander and whomever is the officer recruiter over who "owns" you, but let them deal with that.

Response by SFC Larry Orsborn made Apr 8 at 2021 10:58 AM

SFC Larry Orsborn — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 10:58:03 -0400

Listen.. you're talking about attempting to be an officer in the combat MOS field. The problem with most officers, they don't know what it feels like to be at the bottom of the barrel.
Your recruiter is only trying to make a good recommendation for you. He knows obviously that if you meet the criteria for officer; that you could go that route.
Earn the respect of your men.... Experience what they experience.
If someone reads this and disagrees... All I have to say...
AUDIE MURPHY.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2021 11:50 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 23:50:35 -0400

If you are interested in becoming an officer, you enlist as a 09S. Before you even leave for basic, you will complete a packet and go to a board before you’re accepted as an officer candidate. If you enlist as any other MOS you won’t go to OCS after basic training. Go find a different recruiter because he’s trying to screw you over.

Once you go to OCS, you’ll compete for your branch.

Response by SSG David Fetty made Apr 19 at 2021 5:40 PM

SSG David Fetty — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:40:45 -0400

The ONLY Benefit I can see to going in as enlisted before OCS would be pay, depending on how long you waited for OCS; you might be paid at 0-1 (over 2) which might make <Shrug> $50 month difference?

Like Major Jason Taylor told you, the recruiter is looking out for HIS interest, meeting his quota instead of putting you where you should be.

While it's not directly related to your case, I tried for 5 years to take the FAST test for Rotary Wing Warrant, and for 5 years I was always told I was "too critical to the unit's mission" to be released that day, reschedule. When I refused to re-enlist to complete a European tour I had to talk to the Bde Cdr and give my reasons why. When I explained about the school, he asked me if I would reconsider if I could get the school... Maybe, honestly I didn't know, until he made a phone call in my presence and and could offer me a school date before my PCS date. That was too much, if I couldn't do it the right way, I didn't want to go to a rigorous school like that on the old boys network. I turned it down.

I still don't regret it.

Response by CAPT Dave Woodard made May 3 at 2021 9:12 AM

CAPT Dave Woodard — Mon, 03 May 2021 09:12:55 -0400

Me thinketh your recruiter is trying to fulfill a quota. You're an engineer and the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. You might also check with the USMC and look into their Combat Engineers - trip to the top could be tougher but the end state is superb