Considering Evolution, should the body fat standards be relaxed across the U.S. Military?

2015-06-23T16:48:00-04:00

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/06/23/as-sailors-await-new-physical-fitness-rules-tape-in-debate.html

As Sailors Await New Physical Fitness Rules, 'Tape-In' Debate Smolders

Last year, 5,000 sailors failed the Navy’s physical fitness assessment. The Navy wants to lower that number by changing its test.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jun 23 at 2015 4:52 PM

2015-06-23T16:52:35-04:00

1. Build performance standards based on combat. 2. Enforce these standards. 3. Who cares what bodyfat % people have?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 23 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-06-23T17:01:50-04:00

That is horrible.

Response by Sgt Nick Marshall made Jun 23 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-06-23T17:28:44-04:00

The standards of fat are irrelevant as long as the person can do the job. My body type categorized me as obese in the Marines, yet I was running marathons.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-06-23T17:41:48-04:00

One of my best buddies up in Minot got washed out of the force because he failed composition. He was solid muscle. Was a 60 gunner & could carry it like it was a piece of paper. I'll never understand that portion of the AFPT.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 5:52 PM

2015-06-23T17:52:45-04:00

As long as the mission can be accomplished. Body fat% should mean nothing.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 23 at 2015 6:02 PM

2015-06-23T18:02:34-04:00

Healthy Troops are less expensive Troops. Higher (Actual) bodyfat leads to increases in health concerns.

I don't care what someone actually weighs. I do care what their bodyfat % might be however, because that is a health indicator.

That said, the BMI and current tape test isn't accurate (it's decent, but not great). But it's also a secondary test.

Edit: Spelling

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jun 23 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-06-23T18:05:01-04:00

The standards are based on actuarial tables from the 1940s and 50s, and are way off base. The most fit sailors/soldiers often have difficult times with the old tape measure because of muscle mass.

The standards do need to be adjusted for mission needs, and perhaps not worry quite so much about "Pride and Professionalism". I'm not sure that program really benefited the fleet anyway...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 6:56 PM

2015-06-23T18:56:07-04:00

I think they should be relooked at (the method of calculating), but not relaxed. We had a desk sergeant that was so large he couldn't get into the Peacekeeper to go to the sites, therefore he was always assigned desk duty. They even had to get a different chair for him because he was large. I don't know how he managed to stay in. I think they were letting him ride until his enlistment was up. He wasn't going to promote past SSgt.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jun 23 at 2015 7:08 PM

2015-06-23T19:08:11-04:00

Body fat is a joke. We're talking about the armed forces, not professional bodybuilding. I knew a guy while stationed in Germany who was a big dude. He wasn't fat, but he just had that big physique. He could pass all facets of his PT test with flying colors except for the waist measurement. Ultimately, that would bring down his score. In my opinion, if a service member can meet the required physical standards, something like body fat should be irrelevant.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-06-23T19:11:51-04:00

Evolution has nothing to do with it. We are living in a fast food, processed food age. Almost everyday I see people consuming more and more simple carbs and energy drinks to keep themselves going while slacking on PT because of one reason or another. It's all bull****. Throw out your pizza, put down the soda, and go buy some real food. Our military force has gone so far off track of what fitness is, it's mind boggling.

In addition to that, do the APFT standards need to be lowered? Absolutely not. Some APFT events need to be added in order to measure "true" fitness, yes. But we can't lower standards. We're out of shape enough as it is.

Finally, as SPC Jeff Daley, PhD already said, the way in which we measure body fat needs to be changed. Having a lot of muscle mass below the neck and then having a thin neck will always result in an obese number. It's ridiculous. Are these cases the exception? Yes. But we still need to find a better method.

Response by SPC Thomas Baldwin made Jun 23 at 2015 7:15 PM

2015-06-23T19:15:07-04:00

I could never meet the hight Waite standard. But my body fat was never over 17% and you where allowed 22%. But because of this I was denied over 8 awards because of it. Even though I met the standard the commander at the time view was if you can't meet the hight Waite standerd he won't approve any awards.

Response by CPO Gregory Smith made Jun 23 at 2015 7:26 PM

2015-06-23T19:26:35-04:00

I struggled with weight my entire career. I'm just a short fat guy. Even when I lived in the gym and ate a strict paleo diet I still barely made tape. But I was able to pass the PFA. My concern is the folks that stress so much about passing that they do dangerous crap like dehydrating or not eating for a week before weigh in. Or the kids who drink five red bulls or take a handful of caffeine pills to pass the run. I'm not saying we should allow members to look like a sack of jello, but if they can pass the PFA we should cut them some slack on the BMI. But like I said, I'm a fat guy so I'm biased.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 7:36 PM

2015-06-23T19:36:42-04:00

If you don't want people to be fat stop making uniforms with a size 52 waist......just saying.

On a serious note....I am one of those "big boned" guys who had to have a waiver and be taped my entire career.....the worst thing they did for fitness in the AF at least was set a minimum waist size........on day you could max out your run, your sit-ups, and push-ups and be a PT hero and pass....and then poof....you could max all of the above and because your waist was 41 inches you became a POS and needed remedial counseling and training....anyway I digress

Standards are set to be adhered to and as such if you can't meet them ........dot dot dot.

That being said the second biggest mistake the AF made was not allowing for a waiver for the waist for people who can meet all the physical requirement (specifically for those who score in the 90% in all other categories).

blah blah blah....work out more....blah blah....everyone can lower their BMI....blah blah....

Just thought I'd summarize all the fitness folks comments....lol

Hate it or love it PT standards are there to make us a better overall force.....and like most things in military it does not address the individual but the overall mission.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 8:45 PM

2015-06-23T20:45:48-04:00

IMO, since color, race, or gender have proven to have no bearing on doing your job then perhaps weight should be omitted as well. We are looking at combat effectiveness factors. If you can PT to the standards, do your job and be overweight then what's the problem? If you can't fit in your tank then perhaps reclassification to the needs of the service is in order (you may get another job or you may get booted). Appearance has no factor except in Hollywood and recruiting posters and what is considered professional is qualitative, not quantitative like the current fat tests.

If we are concerned about health then perhaps we should set alcohol, tobacco and junk food consumption standards as well. That all said, we signed the dotted line with the current standards and the chance of anything changing is close to zero until we actually have a problem bringing in recruits.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Jun 23 at 2015 8:53 PM

2015-06-23T20:53:37-04:00

The body fat % and measurements favor a specific body type. Not all people fit into that type. I knew a chief who said he had to work out almost constantly and loose 10 lbs. before it was accepted that he was a big man. They guy was built like a bull dog. My husband fell into the same problem - short guy, heavy build, strong as an ox, highly active, but couldn't satisfy measurement requirements after 35.

I too think that fitness performance and not measurements should be the main judge.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-06-23T22:18:53-04:00

Not relaxed, but updated, then enforced.

Response by TSgt Matthew Greenwood made Jun 23 at 2015 11:29 PM

2015-06-23T23:29:01-04:00

I can't say they should be relaxed but they need to be improved upon. The Air Force will just take a measurement around the waist and give you points for the smaller the waistline. The problem is if you take to people both 30 years old and take off all skin, muscle and tissue. Now take a measurement around the top of the hip and they will be different. How can you tell me that someone 50 inches tall is going to have the same as some 75 inch tall person. Everyone has a different build so to say we all have to have a 35 inch waist is ridiculous.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Jun 24 at 2015 2:17 AM

2015-06-24T02:17:36-04:00

I imagine cyber warriors who only ever sit in an office, so I would say... Should there be standards pft and body fat for different MOS's?

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 24 at 2015 4:40 AM

2015-06-24T04:40:33-04:00

So what I got from this article is "Blah, blah, blah... We acknowledge there's a problem. Blah, blah, blah... We're not going to fix it because we're too lazy..."

While a lot of Sailors who fail height/weight and rope & choke really ARE overweight, there's still that small percentage of people with body builder type physiques who are also labeled fat and that's what needs to change.

But I seriously doubt the Navy (or the other services) will ever actually do something about it.

Here's my situation. When I graduated high school I weighed 150 lbs of rock solid muscle, and my gym teacher measured me at around 7% body fat using the skin pinch/caliper method.

Fast forward a few months later when I was in boot camp. Same physique as I was doing martial arts for 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. The Navy said I was 18% body fat (though it didn't matter since I was within height/weight standards). How the f--k did I more than double my body fat % even though I didn't gain an ounce?

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Jun 24 at 2015 7:40 AM

2015-06-24T07:40:43-04:00

least in the 5% of the lowest BMI index. As soon as the standards are lowered BMI scores will go in the absolute wrong direction, it's human nature.

7 years ago our troop count was over a million. Now it's below 400,000. In my estimation the remaining service members should be 3X over their current "ideal" Body mass index. We can't be effective with fat, out of shape service members.

The same should be the standard for The Reserve and National Guard units. They could be turned into active troops with a moments notice.

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Jun 24 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-06-24T07:52:40-04:00

The Coast Guard has revised the standards several times in the last 20 years. I came up with a program for those who were not over weight to 'sell' their margins to overweight shipmates as a system to encourage units to help each other and prevent loss of personnel who were marginally overweight. There were ethical and practical issues, but the idea was to get past the red tape and rescue the careers of people who were having difficulty meeting arbitraty standards.

Response by MSgt C Madd made Jun 24 at 2015 7:58 AM

2015-06-24T07:58:44-04:00

no change to fat body standards. Folks got to push away from the table once in a while and PT. No secret to being or getting into shape. If you do not have the abity or mental strength to get or stay in shape, McDonalds is always hiring.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 24 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-06-24T10:05:23-04:00

This is not "evolution"
This is an imbalance in intake and output.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 10:08 AM

2015-06-24T10:08:12-04:00

As someone who has never made the scale weight and has had to be taped for 18+ years, the standards are the standards. I can pass my APFT with a greater than 200 score and never fall out of ruck marches. With that being said, the remedial PT group are all younger than 30 and do not have to be taped. Does being under a certain weight make you fit? No. Does being heavier make you unfit? No. There should be a happy medium where if you can still pass the APFT you should not be penalized for weighing more.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 12:49 PM

2015-06-24T12:49:10-04:00

Evolution is definitely not in play here. Evolution is an extremely slow process taking millions of years. What you're referring to is a change in American diets that give a propensity for people to become heavier. There is nothing natural about why Americans tend to be heavier than other cultures. This is purely a function of our changing diets.

If anything, the standards we have are too relaxed. Looking mission ready is almost as important is being mission ready. The military is a lifestyle, not a job. If someone can't (by choice or not) get their body to fit that lifestyle, then the military is not for them. The military isn't something anyone can do.

Response by SGT John Rauch made Jun 24 at 2015 12:51 PM

2015-06-24T12:51:51-04:00

back to the original question, what do you mean by evolution? the whole theory of evolution garbage. if that is indeed what the word evolution is implying in the original question people are fatter now than they were in the 40's. plain and simple. if people in the 40's had as much tech as we have now, I think they would have been just as fat. the theory of evolution states that species are made stronger by evolving. I dont think being fat is a step in the right direction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-06-24T17:01:22-04:00

"Considering evolution" ..... What he fuck is that supposed to mean. The human race does not become fat over the period of the 3 genererations we've seen Americans become obese. Just because we are fat doesn't mean our adversaries are. The demands of combat do not change because you can't do a pull-up.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:07 PM

2015-06-24T17:07:08-04:00

Yes!!!! every time I weigh-in I have to starve for a few days and sometimes dehydrate myself. but I run 280-290 PFT's and always get 300 CFT's. the standards the Marine Corps uses haven't changed since 1950 and it is proven we are wider and more muscled than we were back then. I truly say there should be a score cap that if you hit it doesn't matter if you are over (to an extent of course). I have seen marines nearly kill themselves trying to lose the weight to stay out of the Body Weight Composition Program (BCP) my roommate passed out in formation because he was so severely dehydrated to lose the weight, once again a solid performer but his body type did not fit the standards since he was 6 foot had a 36 inch waist and a 14 inch neck he couldn't tape out. He was in the hospital with a I.V. in his arm for a day. this type of thing goes on in every unit every day in the corps and it's hurting marines bodies. and the company commanders who have the power to say "you don't look fat and you have a good PFT score so your not on BCP" don't do it. they just put a good marine on BCP and let his career go up in flames since you cant get promoted while on BCP and it is horrible for PRO/CON's and FitReps. if you go to the gym and lift you will be heavy and big, it is really what a marine should be especially as infantry since if your buddy goes down you need to be able to carry him and his gear. I'll rap up saying that they need to be edited to fit the way a healthy person is now not 50 years ago.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-06-24T17:12:50-04:00

No. The current standard of body fat percentage I don't have a problem with. I have a problem with largely muscled becoming synonymous with overweight. We need to look at our methods of determining bodyfat and adjusting body weight limits with respect to physical fitness.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-06-24T18:05:22-04:00

Like some of the above individuals stated, evolution is not the issue. A sedentary lifestyle accompanied by a poor diet are the primary reasons for the higher number of obese people in general, not just in the military. I do agree however that the tape method of body fat measuring is highly inaccurate and it can vary greatly depending on the individual doing the taping. An extra half in. on the waist or half in. less on the neck and now you have an individual who´s flagged for busting tape who may achieve a pt score of 270 or higher. I have witnessed this first hand. I agree that we should focus more on meeting the pt test standards and I do not mean by lowering the standards to get more individuals to pass. How are we supposed to defeat our enemies if can´t go up a flight of stairs without running out of breath? Another problem is that in general, our younger generations of service members come from a society that expects everything to be convenient and done for them. These are the issues we need to be dealing with and not worrying so much about bodyfat percentages. I shall stop now before I start to ramble too much.

Response by SN Earl Robinson made Jun 24 at 2015 6:24 PM

2015-06-24T18:24:54-04:00

Unfortunately we Americans seem to be the only ones evolving toward excess body fat. So NO! Keep the standard as it is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 6:50 PM

2015-06-24T18:50:46-04:00

Speaking as someone that has scored a 300 and been right at the max allowable body fat % in the same day I feel that they need to find a more accurate way of measuring body fat...or make the weight standards realistic... I hate seeing people that can barely pass the pt test with bigger waists than me get sub 20% body fat because they have a big neck...just my 02 cents but I know I'm not alone there is countless great soldiers and pt studs with small necks that sweat buckets everytime this sham of a body fat test comes around

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 11:16 PM

2015-06-24T23:16:15-04:00

I think that the way we assess body fat and methodologies should be reevaluated. It just makes no sense to me when I have a Soldier that can max his PT test yet fail tape by 3%. Seriously...how does that happen?!?! But on another aspect, I'd keep an overweight Soldier who works his/her butt off doing their job over a seemingly "fit" Soldier who can't pull their own weight because they're not strong enough to so! I understand the "fit to fight" concept and the image we want to show that we are an elite and physically fit fighting force, but if that's the case, why are we so lenient on recruits? I mean...some people just can't help their genetics no matter how hard they try.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 7:01 AM

2015-06-25T07:01:59-04:00

No! They should not be relaxed. We have lowered are standards enough and now we are paying for it with these new young. I'm stressed, I need a perm no run profile because I'm fat, I'm sick and I need and LOD... Enough is enough with the lowering of our standards. I'm fact we should raise them and start discharging those who don't meet them.

Response by 1stSgt James Corbett made Jun 25 at 2015 7:20 AM

2015-06-25T07:20:41-04:00

Has evolution occurred since the BMI and its standards were implemented?

Response by SFC Rapfeal Mayfield made Jun 25 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-06-25T09:43:35-04:00

I think the military should look at at a more accurate way of determining body fat. The way it is currently don has too much room for error. You can get tapped by one person then have another person tape you and they both have different results.

Response by Sgt John Henry made Jun 25 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-06-25T09:43:35-04:00

In Marine Corps Boot Camp, some new recruits weigh too much to start training. They go to a special recruit platoon made just for them.

They eat less than most recruits and their exercise is cardio-focused. Remarkably, they all lose weight in this platoon.

Response by LCDR Bruce Cooley made Jun 25 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-06-25T09:57:10-04:00

To a point, absolutely...and then again no. I was always having to be taped because of my body type and build....but never failed the skills tests (ie: push ups, sit ups, and swim/run). However, there are certain disciplines in the military that must maintain very high standards of performance and their physical skills portion should count more than a "Body Fat/Weight" measurement that doesn't take that into account. It is a very hard balance to take.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 10:24 AM

2015-06-25T10:24:18-04:00

Military ought to change the methods they extract body fat %. I dont see how "evolution"(I suspect you mean micro-evolution) has anything to do with it. Another consideration is all the horrible food and drinks our society consumes on a daily basis. Standards ought to be based on war requirements, nothing else.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Jun 25 at 2015 10:57 AM

2015-06-25T10:57:06-04:00

Not relaxed, but made more efficient and correct

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 25 at 2015 11:05 AM

2015-06-25T11:05:42-04:00

I think it is important to realize that the body fat and BMP standards is based on an "ideal" body type, which is the average mesomorphic 18-21yr old white male. Therein, it is a flawed measure as many perfectly healthy people do not match that "ideal" body type. The problem with many military standards is that they are often black and white absolutes in a world of greys. Weight and body fat composition does make an impact on health....but how much and it what ways? Also, are we measuring "fitness" and "combat ability" or "looks good in a uniform?"

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jun 25 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-06-25T11:11:29-04:00

I think they should be replaced with more frequent testing using fitness standards (it's easy to ramp up for tests twice a year). Appearance is basically unimportant, other than being a loose proxy for fitness. I understand that people want/like certain types of what they define as a "military appearance", but the bottom line is that appearance only matters as it pertains to whether or not people can physically perform their jobs. Just my $0.02.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 11:16 AM

2015-06-25T11:16:49-04:00

The entire height/weight system needs to be revamped. The standards are from the 1950's. The tapeing method for deturmining body fat % is highly inacurrate. When I reenlisted I dropped 10lbs and increased 2% bodyfat because I lost more off of my neck than my waist. I am considered obese by BMI standards, which I am far from obese. My solution is to track it but don't use it as a QBI standard. My belief is that if a Soldier can pass the APFT then the height/weight/body fat standards are not needed.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 12:30 PM

2015-06-25T12:30:48-04:00

yes I think they should change it because this yr. I had never failed a BCA not even pregnant and the CFL tape me incorrectly and my percentage was over by 2 and I request to ask CO waiver it but was denied. So Doing away with it is fine with me or have someone to properly tape. I feel if you can do the run or bike or etc. sit-up and pushup then that great you pass.

Response by SN Bryan King made Jun 25 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-06-25T13:41:57-04:00

I think it's all crap, on person healthy is not the same as another's!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-06-25T19:34:08-04:00

The way bodyfat is measured needs to be reevaluated however it should not be any easier. In fact I would say it should be tougher. I mean do you want somebody who has nearly a quarter of their body weight as body fat as a soldier? I don't I know that for sure. If you don't or can't adhere to the standard find another job.

Response by CPO David Welsh made Jun 25 at 2015 8:07 PM

2015-06-25T20:07:46-04:00

Sorry folks, but all of you are wrong. The current system works perfectly for what it was designed to do: it is a force reduction tool. When you are facing draw downs and have to reduce your active duty strength by 30 thousand troops, the fastest way to do that is to put as many impediments in place as possible to cut people. Consider this, the majority of people who have problems passing the BMI is us older folks. When I was in my 20's BMI was not a concern. After 30, my metabolism changed (evolution sucks) and I began to gain mass. Just like all of you, I spent a large part of the day in the gym or on the road and still had problems. Looking at my relatives, it was inevitable since all of us have the same issues with weight. I would be willing to bet that the standards would be changed quickly, if the military found itself short of bodies in the future. Of course, this is all just my humble opinion.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 25 at 2015 11:29 PM

2015-06-25T23:29:44-04:00

Uh no... SFC Private RallyPoint Member. They need to be tightened....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 12:29 AM

2015-06-26T00:29:19-04:00

The only reason I am at 22% body fat is because the Army says I can be up to 26%. If my max allowed was 20%, there is no doubt I'd be about 16% body fat. Why relax the standard when it's not evolution, but poor nutrition and exercise habits that are our downfalls.

Response by MSgt David Haupt made Jun 26 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-06-26T09:29:35-04:00

Here we go again. I battle the "Battle of the BMI" while serving. Get rid of it. The BMI scale is from the 70s. Look at evolution since then. Kids are taller and bigger then when I was in. If you can run, do sit-ups and push-ups then you'r good. Pass the test! I have seen gentle men who look like their 9 months pregnant out run and carry heavier loads better than skinny kids. I'm not saying having a force who eats at McDonald's everyday but standards! What ever happen to good sounding judgement. If a Commander or 1st Sgt thinks you'r big they sent you to FAT Boy camp. O wait would that be discrimination? Add some combat related testing. How about carrying a ruck or lifting something heavy? How about the float test or POD's? If you want BMI in a test use it as a resource and not part of the test. To many option for a different test are out there. Why doesn't leadership listen to the troops? Maybe this discussion would not come up every month.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-06-26T09:57:51-04:00

Evolution? More like poor eating habits.

Response by SR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-06-26T19:30:39-04:00

No? How does a species evolve over the course of a few years? People and their poor decisions cause themselves to be overweight.

Response by SPC John Decker made Jun 28 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-06-28T14:46:21-04:00

They should be eliminated. If a person can do the job, as described, neither their physical appearance nor their physical make-up should be a factor.

Response by Cpl Charles Vadnais made Jun 28 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-06-28T15:30:14-04:00

I was a BCP (Body Composition Program) NCO for several years in the USMC. If I learned one thing its that you can take one look at someone and know when they're just a naturally large person and when they're a lazy turd that takes one too many trips to the fridge. I met some really big guys that can still hack it with everyone else.

I also met dozens of Marines that were, we'll just say "at risk". Every single one of them did the exact same thing, spent all their time at the gym doing neck-based workouts and spending hours at a time in a sauna risking heat-exhaustion or worse. Also met plenty of people that had been assigned BCP right before a deployment, lost all the weight and then some out in the sandbox, only to come back and have to finish another mandatory 5 months of BCP. Also had to sit by as an NCO and watch as NCO and below got signed onto BCP while SNCO's and Officers would get each other out of it because the USMC has a messed up double-standard.

If they can do the job, there shouldn't be any question about how they look doing it.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 3:04 AM

2015-06-29T03:04:38-04:00

the only thing the Army should worry about is the APFT. If you can pass a FITNESS test, then why should body composition matter?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-06-29T12:32:28-04:00

I think just adjusted if need by to ensure that it is accurate.

Response by SSG Justin McCarrell made Jul 22 at 2015 6:29 AM

2015-07-22T06:29:21-04:00

This is a touchy subject to me. When I was still serving the body fat % was a top priority. Even if you were able to max out your PT test if you didn't pass tape then there were consequences. In my situation I was over weight for my height, did well on every PT test, but my neck wasn't big enough. I think the process is dated and needs to be improved. Some people are built differently and may even work out on their off time. The extra weight you put on in muscle mass becomes problematic sometimes. The other issue I saw was the taping process itself. Often times I would see NCO's tape loosely which can give you an extra inch around the waist. Improper taping procedures can cause soldiers to be excluded from certain schools or from promotion. I don't know if the process is still the same but it does need to be improved. I do feel it is necessary being the military, across all branches, needs to be physically fit and not a bunch of fat bodies. It may be nice to eat that extra plate of food for dinner or whatever but carrying around extra weight doesn't look professional in a military uniform.

Response by SGT Bradley L. made Jul 23 at 2015 1:40 PM

2015-07-23T13:40:27-04:00

I think they should raise the minimums on the APFT, and eliminate the body fat percentage. If a solider can pass the APFT with 80 or higher, then body fat is irrelevant; however, I think an annual ruck with combat load needs to be added to the assessment. I've worked with several "Overweight" soldiers who could pass the APFT with a 270 and above, but struggled to meet body fat percentages. They we're also rucking beasts.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 25 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-07-25T15:57:10-04:00

Is it evolution or situation. In all the WWII pics the soldiers are thin.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Jul 26 at 2015 3:42 AM

2015-07-26T03:42:15-04:00

We should return to the 500 lb CPO.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Jun 27 at 2016 12:31 PM

2016-06-27T12:31:25-04:00

No. To put it bluntly get, and keep, your fat ass in shape whether our not you serve in the military. It's better for everyone in the long run.