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<p><font size="3">Corrective Actions is defined as: Non-punitive actions used as a motivational tool by authorized cadre members to immediately address deficiencies in performance or conduct and to reinforce required standards. </font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">Hazing is defined as: any conduct whereby one military member or employee, regardless of service or rank, unnecessarily causes another military member or employee, regardless of service or rank, to suffer or be exposed to an activity which is cruel, abusive, oppressive or harmful.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">As a young private I was "smoked" for anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours. Those actions today will now put you at rist to get fired for Soldier abuse. As a young private I never thought twice about it. I made a mistake and I am now paying the consequences for my actions. I learned quickly that if the stove is hot, not to touch it as it will burn you. Whether my leaders were in the right or wrong does not matter... Their actions helped to form me as a leader. So the question becomes w</font><font size="3">here do you draw the line?</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">The Book answer states that p<font size="3">hysical exercise can be used for corrective action. Requiring Soldiers to perform a reasonable number of repetitions of authorized physical exercises </font><b><font size="3" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman">IAW TC 3-22.20 </font></font></b><font size="3" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"></font></font><font size="3">as a motivational tool is permitted for corrective action. However, consideration must be given to the exercises, repetitions, and total number of times each day that exercise is used for corrective action to limit the potential for overtraining and injuries.</font></font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">We realize that we must follow the orders of those appointed over us. Their guidelines will layout what the right answer for that unit will be. </font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">My question to you is what is acceptable in your opinion for the use of physical exercise in the use of corrective actions? And where do we cross the line and it becomes hazing?</font></p>
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Hazing
Hazing
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 16
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When I first came in get "Smoked" was an everyday thing. If the ones in charge didn't have a good night grumpy whatever it might be we got smoked for anything. But when it was from us doing something wrong we didn't mind because we knew we screwed something up or did not do something right. Now I have been places where I did the same thing because they really screwed up but nothing that could not be corrected on the spot, and when this was done it was any where from 15 min to 30 min but that Soldier never did that action again. Now I am in Tradoc it is said we must follow the PRT card and can not have them do more than what is on it for trainees. Before I left my last duty location to come to Tradoc we would get into trouble if they caught us giving physical fitness corrective training to any Soldier they would rather us write a counseling and get them to do an essay for whatever it is they was in trouble for. I believe that the on the spot correction needs to stay and let that NCO determine what is enough up to a point, because you will have few that would take it too far and that is where their battle buddies needs to police him or her up.
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We were briefed that TRADOC imposts a 5 rep limit per exercise.. the way they go about that is: Do five pushups, position of attention, 5 mountain climbers, position of attention, 5 flutter kicks, position of attention.... repeat until satisfied. I think the main focus is that overtraining on one exercise can lead lead to injury so you just keep changing the exercise.
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As a young soldier, I found the quickest way for knowledge to find it's way to the brain and stay there was through focused physical exercise. And I think that's where the line is. The purpose of corrective action is to teach and correct. Not to punish and have an outlet for a leader to vent out their rage and frustration. Again, I'd study FM 7-22 and find what is considered good form if you're unsure. As far as the risk of over-training and overuse injuries; they do happen. It's really evident with new soldiers because a growing number of them recruited, have never been in a fight before as a kid. P.E. all over the country has laxed in schoools, and it has been mentioned by top brass that this sedimentary lifestyle of kids is fast becoming a national security issue. You have people who have not used their muscles like what's expected of them in the military, have no prior structured athletic training. Then you even have older soldiers who've always had bad form when exercising and are hurting themselves. If you don't believe me, go to the post gym and check out some of the people attempting to curl 400lbs pounds with their lower back, rather than greatly lower the weight and attain proper form so actually exercise the biceps.
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I was literally JUST talking about this to one of my NCOs, the differences between then and now. When I went to basic, we were smoked mercilessly. In the end though, there were values that were ingrained in us through that, there were lessons that were taught in that and those that just could not do it, were Failure to Adapt and were no longer a burden on the Army. They never made it to the force and therefore were not an additional cost that had to be dealt with at a later time. This is NOT the case now, now they arrive and WE have an expensive useless person that is an FTA, that WE have to kick out, but the process is now FAR more difficult and we are already overtaxed.
The point is, corrective training in Basic DID THIS. They did this in an environment where EVERYONE WAS EQUAL. There was no groups that were better than the other, that stood around as a person was smoked. Everyone was rolling left, rolling right in the pit. Everyone was carrying their ruck above their head, EVERYONE WAS A TEAM, if someone did not fit the bill, they would FTA, and go home.
Send that same person to the force and suddenly they are not equal in everyone's eyes. Suddenly everyone has a different position, suddenly you have to ensure that that line is monitored more closely.
Physical Exercise, that answer is simple we as old school grown people cannot do what we always did, we must follow the new rules. Ensure that we are ONLY using the exercises in TC 3-22.20 for the appropriate period of time. If we go outside of this, start calling them names, degrading them, or become abusive then yes we are hazing them and we must be cautious of it. It may be how we grew up in the Army, but we HAVE to adapt to change, period. It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, it only matters that we may think "this is stupid", then we say ROGER, and move out and carry out the mission.
The point is, corrective training in Basic DID THIS. They did this in an environment where EVERYONE WAS EQUAL. There was no groups that were better than the other, that stood around as a person was smoked. Everyone was rolling left, rolling right in the pit. Everyone was carrying their ruck above their head, EVERYONE WAS A TEAM, if someone did not fit the bill, they would FTA, and go home.
Send that same person to the force and suddenly they are not equal in everyone's eyes. Suddenly everyone has a different position, suddenly you have to ensure that that line is monitored more closely.
Physical Exercise, that answer is simple we as old school grown people cannot do what we always did, we must follow the new rules. Ensure that we are ONLY using the exercises in TC 3-22.20 for the appropriate period of time. If we go outside of this, start calling them names, degrading them, or become abusive then yes we are hazing them and we must be cautious of it. It may be how we grew up in the Army, but we HAVE to adapt to change, period. It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, it only matters that we may think "this is stupid", then we say ROGER, and move out and carry out the mission.
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I guess it would depend on which side of the fence you are on. If you are the one being corrected then it is most likely that it is considered hazing. If you are the one doing the correcting then it is corrective action. Seems like a circular discussion here.
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There are two methods of teaching. Significant emotional experience and repetition. A good leader will know when to apply the appropriate method. I was an instructor for Privates and NCOs. My prefered method for corrective training of Privates was reptition. Assuming they didn't know they were deficient in performance or conduct repetition gave them an opportunity to feel and see what right looks like. NCOs on the other hand, should know the standard, therefor I prefered the significant emotional experience approach. They should already know what right looks like and apparantly chose a deficient method.
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