Could a retired E6 be recalled for Arson/Insurance fraud if he committed the crime while still active duty army?

Ellen Nabonne — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 11:18:05 -0400

Do they consider statute of limitations?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 5 at 2018 11:27 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 11:27:50 -0400

I am not a lawyer nor did I play one on TV so I speak from what i have seen, less then what i know. An Actual lawyer, familiar with UCMJ and your state laws would be your go to person for sure.
Can they? I think it depends, Is the E6 retired and receiving pension?
Was it a civilian crime that happened while on active duty or a crime that happened on active duty AND it was government property.

I think the answer will be
No
YES
But not likely

I dont recall an ETS'ed member bring recalled for trial by CM for non GOV events ..and only a few times for.
A drug case that reviled a now ETS'ed officer and NCO were dealing, transporting drugs...They got brought back for CM
A Murder case that a lower enlisted was brought back.... but If I remember right he was still on Terminal leave, so not really "out"

And a few Senior officers that were brought back to active duty to CM on corruption charges..

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Sep 5 at 2018 12:15 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 12:15:15 -0400

Could they? Yes, they can recall ETS and retired personnel for Courts Martial. Will they? Unclear. There are so many other factors to consider. It would be a method of last resort. Talk to an attorney familiar with military law. The variables are many. Was anyone hurt or killed? Likelihood increases. Government property? Is there another jurisdiction involved? Anyone on RP is just guessing. TTYA.

Response by PO1 Alan Sparks made Sep 5 at 2018 12:17 PM

PO1 Alan Sparks — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 12:17:23 -0400

A person can be recalled to active duty to face a Court Martial for crimes commited while they were in the military. However, it is more likely they would face the regular Federal Justice System. I do not believe the military subscribes to a Statute of Limitations, but, I could be wrong. I do know of at least one case where a soldier was aquited for a murder, years after the crime was commited, and the State Attorney General forwarded the case to the DOD and he was recalled to active duty and tried, convicted, and sentenced to death, of course this

Response by SFC Gary Edwards made Sep 5 at 2018 12:55 PM

SFC Gary Edwards — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 12:55:01 -0400

Here’s another individual who uses E paygrade as their rank.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2018 3:05 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 15:05:42 -0400

There are a lot of interesting cases out there.
Once was a warrant that was facing a show-cause board while also going through MEB.
As his escort, I believed the physical I was taking him to was for his MEB process but was actually his final physical. He was able to get his DD214 and outprocess the Army without anyone in the show cause board proceedings aware of it (Being in a 4 star command, the leadership doesnt always communicate with the HQ BN).

In the end, one of our Majors flew to PA, apprehended him, and he was brought back on active duty to face the music. It did not go well. He tried to sue the Army as his lawyer believed the Army had no jurisdiction but that got thrown out real quick.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 5 at 2018 4:10 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:10:32 -0400

In short, yes. The UCMJ isn't like civilian courts and law even though it's framed based on federal law. If you're subject to retiree pay, you're subject to being recalled to pay for your mistakes.

"Under Article 2 of the UCMJ, the Army maintains court-martial jurisdiction over retired personnel. Army Regulation 27-10, Military Justice, states “Retired members of a regular component of the Armed Forces who are entitled to pay are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ . . . and may be tried by court-martial for violations of the UCMJ that occurred while they were on active duty or while in a retired status.” Department of the Army policy, however, does limit these trials to cases where extraordinary circumstances are present. The Army normally declines to prosecute retired Soldiers unless their crimes have clear ties to the military, or are clearly service discrediting. If necessary to facilitate courts-martial action, retired Soldiers may be ordered to active duty".

This is not an occurrence that happens regularly, but should be somewhere in the back of your mind, "taking off the uniform doesn't always make you free".

http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php/7331-Retirees-subject-to-recall-for-UCMJ-Prosecution

7331-Retirees-subject-to-recall-for-UCMJ-Prosecution

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2018 4:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:53:22 -0400

Absolutely. There are several famous cases of retired military being pulled back onto active duty, courts martialed and then sent to prison or discharged. When you're retired, you're still eligible to be called back for any number of things - including active duty for deployment if the military needs your skills.
As everyone pointed out, whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze is a different story. I have seen them pull drill sergeants off retirement to court martial for having sex with IET students. I would think they would do the same for arson.

Response by SSgt Max Gonzales made Sep 5 at 2018 5:12 PM

SSgt Max Gonzales — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 17:12:15 -0400

I say yes, depending on the severity of offense.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Sep 5 at 2018 11:57 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 23:57:25 -0400

If case is solid, suspect Army will forward evidence packet to local US Atty office for federal prosecution. Military does not have standing courts. It's a hassle to hold a GCM. Federal District Courts are better suited to handle a fraud case.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 6 at 2018 12:13 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 12:13:37 -0400

Real issue is jurisdiction. Looks like CIV. The MIL side won't have any interest until the CIV side is adjudicated. Then there may be a sniff test to see it it's in the MIL interest to pursue a UCMJ action. Other responders are right that the SM can be recalled, but what for? It wouldn't be for the same crime. It would be an Art 134 in that the SM made the service look bad. Likelihood? Not likely. Why? It isn't a money saver but a money waster. The retirement salary doesn't come out of MIL hide, hence there's no financial reason to pursue. The only thing that would increase the odds is if it's a PR circus that drags the MIL through the mud. A page 6 mention of a former SM getting dinged typically won't wake the dragon up. The MILs don't have a good response to the many page 4 exMIL suicides. So the MIL side makes a business decision. They don't want to give the media the opportunity to shift the question, so do nothing is most likely.

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Sep 16 at 2018 4:34 PM

CW4 Anthony Carbo — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:34:21 -0400

great question, I got retired in 1996, after 25 years,

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Sep 16 at 2018 6:09 PM

CW4 Scott Hyde — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:09:39 -0400

Are you asking for a friend?

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Sep 16 at 2018 7:54 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:54:33 -0400

If the military is planning to prosecute...yes!

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 23 at 2021 11:30 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 23 Jan 2021 23:30:01 -0500

Yes, and he should be.

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Jun 8 at 2021 5:46 PM

SGT Gary Tob — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 17:46:43 -0400

Yes that was a recent ruling under the UCMJ.