Could you serve under a Commander-in-Chief you don't respect?

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:27:07 -0500

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unsdKAvTq9o
Once upon a time we had two political parties that shared common goals though disagreed on the best strategy to achieve them. Regardless of who was elected, we could at least respect them. Sadly, an ideology that appears to some/many/me to be at odds with preserving, protecting, and defending the Constitution has emerged and taken root in the established leadership of one of the major American parties. The President appears to be one of its leading proponents and I can honestly say that if I were serving today, I would have resigned my commission rather than serve under him.

As I viewed the video of Bill Maher interviewing Representative Tulsi Gabbard I was relieved to find that the true heart of the Democratic Party may still be beating. I suspect that I would have no difficulty serving under her Administration, or at least respecting her in my current role of a mere citizen. How about you? Does she exemplify the type of Democrat you wished would drive that party today?

I can't help but also observe how screwed up things have become when Bill Maher begins to sound reasonable...

COMPLETE INTERVIEW: Bill Maher Interviewes Tulsi Gabbard on Real Time LIVE (10/31/2015)

Bill Maher tonight spoke with Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard about an issue they agree on: the frustrating refusal of President Obama to accept “Isla...

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 11:29 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:29:33 -0500

I did in the 90's. His name was Bill Clinton. We serve the nation, not the President.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Nov 3 at 2015 11:37 AM

SSG Leo Bell — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:37:39 -0500

Interesting question. Because we have had all kinds of C&C. We have had military leaders, actors, political, lawyers. The point is not everyone is going to like the C&C but we have to obey his orders right or wrong. That's why I always believe that a C&C needs to have served in the military because if you make the call that will take lives then you need to know what it feels like to have your life on the line with someone else making the calls.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Nov 3 at 2015 11:40 AM

COL Jon Thompson — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:40:49 -0500

I served under two (Clinton and Obama) but have gone through a lot of angst in the past 6 years. I served because I still felt it was my duty to the nation and it was something that I fully enjoyed doing. As much as I have hated to see the direction in which the DoD is going, I did my best to make a difference with the people that I served alongside.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Nov 3 at 2015 11:44 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:44:12 -0500

Yes I served under Clinton with whom I didn't have much respect for. But this being said, if we all gave up and quit, then where would we be. I looked at it like I was SERVING my COUNTRY. This was why I joined in the first place to Serve a Nation, not just one man.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 11:58 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:58:05 -0500

If you can't serve under a CinC that you don't respect, then you don't belong in the Military.

When you get to the policy-making level (which almost no one on RP is), then you go ahead and exercise your ability to influence policy or resign if you irreconcilably disagree with the ends or rationale of an administration's strategy or policy.

At the lower levels we have only a very limited ability to dissent, and can only refuse if the required action or inaction is illegal, immoral, or unsafe.

What does respect for the CinC even count for if the CinC's orders are evaluated individually by each Service member? Who's to say that a leader you respect won't demand that you do something with which you disagree? The point is that Service is supposed to be *apolitical* (that means non-political). Therefore, the question in the original post is irrelevant.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Nov 3 at 2015 12:01 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:01:12 -0500

I did. 8yrs under W. My thought was he couldn't be prez 4ever

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 12:06 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:06:09 -0500

... well ... for sure I will absolutely don't want to retired under one, because I don't want his name on any of my retirement "letter". :) lol

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Nov 3 at 2015 12:15 PM

SCPO Lee Pradia — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:15:52 -0500

I learned to lead within the boundaries of the rules, obey the orders of these appointed over me, provide good order and discipline to the personnel assigned to me, ensure that we had everything we needed to support and accomplish the mission, do what needed to be done to keep morale up and keep my CO informed. As far as the civilian leadership, we took an oath to obey the orders of the President and all Officers appointed over us, as enlisted personnel either you comply or in my opinion, get out. For Officers I think the same applies, you can follow your lawful orders or resign. This is just my humble opinion, some may not like it, that's ok, I'm fine with that, we are not politicians. Some leaders are better than others. It's not up to the military to dictate foreign policy. I'm under the impression that, you don't have to respect the person, but you will respect the position, if not, then we won't have good order and discipline.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Nov 3 at 2015 12:16 PM

SSG Michael Scott — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:16:46 -0500

I would respect the rank, but not the person.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Nov 3 at 2015 12:27 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:27:10 -0500

I do not care who is president. I enlisted and swore to do my job to the best of my abilities, and to defend this country. Respecting or even liking who's in office is no concern of mine. Same goes for congress. Liking anyone is nowhere to be found in my enlistment oath.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Nov 3 at 2015 12:46 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:46:10 -0500

I liked some, disliked one, and am outright flummoxed by another. However, the military serves the country and what you think of the current Chief Executive doesn't really matter, beyond your vote. Fortunately, Presidents come and go while the country remains. We are equally fortunate to have Constitution that makes it difficult for a President, Congressman, or even Judge to make permanent changes.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 3 at 2015 1:04 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:04:41 -0500

Well, I survived Bush, here's hoping I won't have to survive Trump...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 1:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:22:16 -0500

Let's see... Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton ."W", and Obama... I did my time.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Nov 3 at 2015 2:11 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:11:40 -0500

I think most of us here on RP could probably say "Could I? Hell, I DID!!!"
Self included... :)

Response by Cpl Micah Wing made Nov 3 at 2015 2:24 PM

Cpl Micah Wing — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:24:04 -0500

I did, I joined 2 years after President Obama was elected. Do I respect him, no. Do I respect his position, yes. But I also didn't join to serve the President. I joined to protect my family, friends, brothers and sisters. I joined to repay the many Veterans before me and try to be the man that they were/are.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Nov 3 at 2015 3:17 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:17:12 -0500

Whether you could or not....doesn't matter. If you want to continue serving then you should be quiet about your feelings regarding the commander and chief...otherwise you may get your self kicked out

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 3 at 2015 4:49 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:49:05 -0500

I think all the moderate Democrats have been run out. Now you only have the Nancy Pelosi wing of the Democratic Party. You saw how they treated Jim Webb at the debates.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Nov 3 at 2015 4:58 PM

SSG Todd Halverson — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:58:09 -0500

Been there..... done that.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 4:58 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:58:30 -0500

I'm serving now. Respect the rank not the man, or his dividing policies.

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Nov 3 at 2015 5:56 PM

PO2 Peter Klein — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:56:07 -0500

Once you are in you are stuck.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Nov 3 at 2015 6:16 PM

MAJ David Vermillion — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:16:40 -0500

Many do and I have.

Response by MSgt John Carroll made Nov 3 at 2015 6:27 PM

MSgt John Carroll — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:27:47 -0500

As an EOD Technician I get to see the real person behind all of these yahoo's in office. Everywhere POTUS, VPOTUS, FLOTUS, Foreign Dig's go they have EOD with them. With that said, Hillary will never get my vote. In fact, I haven't met a Democrat yet that I like as a person. Bill Clinton was OK but the rest of his crew were a bunch of elitist assholes. Don't let them fool you. They honestly don't care about you. Bush on the other hand did care.

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made Nov 3 at 2015 6:39 PM

PV2 Scott Goodpasture — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:39:43 -0500

People are doing as we speek

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 3 at 2015 7:56 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:56:11 -0500

It would be very difficult to take orders from a fraud squatting in the Whitehouse that I am certain is NOT Constitutionally qualified for the office he holds.

It goads me that those we elected have forsaken their oaths to protect and defend our Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC. It seems everyone in the world is aware of the problems Obama has, and they see what he is doing to this country.

Foreigners shake their heads and can't understand why we have allowed Obama to trample on our Constitution and hold office without proper vetting.

America's stock has fallen. Our reputation has degraded to where our allies don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us. We are a shell of the once proud, God-fearing and mighty nation we once were.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:11 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:11:52 -0500

I have in the past, the present is a loaded question and the future is promised to no one.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 9:03 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:03:29 -0500

I don't recall having to do so. But, I have served under others whom I did not or had very little respect. I didn't find a problem because I took a oath to do so and I had enough character to honor that oath.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 10:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 22:16:09 -0500

They are right concerning this President, especially when he vows that he will not fight Islam. CPT Jack Durish

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Nov 3 at 2015 10:38 PM

SMSgt Tony Barnes — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 22:38:22 -0500

I decided not to...retired 20 days before Pres Obama took office. After 28 years, I did not want a Socialist to sign my retirement certificate. We fought too long and hard against Socialism/Communism to allow it to be in the White House.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 11:10 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:10:51 -0500

I served under one President I didn't respect, and I suspect I'll have to do it again in a year. It happens. As long as you're not committing any acts or advancing any policies that flow directly against the direction of your moral compass, there's not much difference.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Nov 3 at 2015 11:48 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:48:48 -0500

I, like most, didn't even consider it when I signed up originally. I don't understand why after 10, 15 or 20 years of service it matters who your CinC is. From Reagan to Obama, I can tell you what I like or admired about each, as well as what I didn't admire about each. You should always fall back on that reason you chose to serve

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Nov 4 at 2015 6:42 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 06:42:19 -0500

Could I? I did, President Clinton. But I wasn't serving for him. When I retired, it was my understanding that officers got a thank you letter from the President. I never got one, and in this case, it was OK. As a Christian, I have another Commander-in-Chief. I don't expect the President to be a saint in this fallen, broken world of ours. But I do pray for him.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 4 at 2015 8:02 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 08:02:28 -0500

CPT Jack Durish we have to remember that the occupant of the White House changes. We are serving the office not the man. We may not like the current commander-in-chief but we all need to remember to respect the office.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Nov 4 at 2015 9:55 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 09:55:15 -0500

Carter and LBJ here. Does that answer the question. You have to think of it just like when you are a civilian, bosses come and go or you do. Either way, you just do what it takes to survive.

Response by CMSgt Mark Lewis made Nov 4 at 2015 2:05 PM

CMSgt Mark Lewis — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:05:20 -0500

Yes, as a military member I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States and obey the orders of the Commander-in-Chief and officer appointed over me. I did not swear an oath to respect the Commander-in-Chief nor any of the officers appointed over me. I'm sure most people tend to respect the position and not necessarily the person in the position. Obviously, it does help you feel better if you can respect both.

Response by TSgt John Temblador, PI, CIPA made Nov 4 at 2015 7:32 PM

TSgt John Temblador, PI, CIPA — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:32:20 -0500

https://shar.es/15uMl5

Response by COL Charles Williams made Nov 5 at 2015 12:29 AM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 00:29:17 -0500

Yes. We don't get a choice or a vote on who that is.

Response by TSgt John Temblador, PI, CIPA made Nov 5 at 2015 5:04 AM

TSgt John Temblador, PI, CIPA — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 05:04:40 -0500

https://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/what-is-apocalyptic-islam-and-why-is-it-so-dangerous-the-research-behind-my-remarks-to-the-jerusalem-leaders-summit/

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 10:11 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:11:07 -0500

Yes - CiC's come and go every 4-8 years...careers are just that, careers. No different than working for a large corporation, in which you disagree or dislike the CEO - but at your level, is it worth seeking a new career/job? At least we know our "CEO" will change every 4-8 years, guaranteed.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Nov 5 at 2015 10:34 AM

SSG Fred Campbell — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:34:15 -0500

I've had to a few times. When I swore to protect and defend, there was no clause that said "serve at your discretion", it's sorta cut and dry. It is what it is..

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 5 at 2015 11:10 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 11:10:12 -0500

I have, so the answer to your main question is 'Yes'. Not one of them did I start out not respecting but they earned any lack of respect by their actions or lack of actions. They are still Commander and Chief and there are plenty of people who have destroyed their respectability in the military and political chain. There is a reason we take the oath to defend the Constitution and not a person or office.

Response by SSG Buddy Kemper made Nov 5 at 2015 11:49 AM

SSG Buddy Kemper — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 11:49:19 -0500

I know it cliche, but...."Been there and done that". But Service life was always all about my guys and my direct leadership. I want our leaders in Washington to do well, don't get me wrong. But for over 25 years I really didn't think about ANYONE above brigade level. It worked for me. That said, I'm glad to be retired. I miss friends and the young version of myself, but I'm too old and sore for that stuff. Interesting question and I always look forward to your responses CPT Jack Durish !

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Nov 5 at 2015 1:49 PM

SPC Andrew Griffin — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 13:49:17 -0500

We have been doing it for decades now! America once had a high level for them! But that dynamic is now changing!

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Nov 5 at 2015 4:29 PM

1SG Michael Blount — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 16:29:21 -0500

I did. Fortunately, he was voted out of office.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 8:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 20:14:11 -0500

To me its not about the man who occupies the office, its about the office. We're supposed to be mature and professionals so whomever is occupying the office shouldn't be an issue. Addittionaly when I enlisted I swore to "Obey the orders of the President of the United States of America and the orders of the Officers appointed over me." So it really doesn't matter if I respect the man holding the office but I swore an oath to follow his orders (not blindly follow but to still follow).

Response by SCPO Edward Westerdahl made Nov 6 at 2015 11:04 AM

SCPO Edward Westerdahl — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 11:04:44 -0500

Did it several times on board aircraft carriers. There was a very loud cheer when the first CO of Nimitz left, and it went on for five minutes.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Nov 6 at 2015 12:39 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 12:39:27 -0500

I did, 1989 - 1994. I also served under Senior NCO's and officers that I believed were undeserving of their rank and position. None ever asked me to do anything I morally disagreed with, so when I found myself irritated by the situation, I did the job and filed the memory away to be revisited when it came time to reenlist. There was enough there that I chose not to reenlist (shocking everybody that someone so "hard charging" wasn't staying in.)

Response by CPT Brent Ferguson made Nov 10 at 2015 5:30 PM

CPT Brent Ferguson — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 17:30:57 -0500

When you take the oath, you give up the freedom to choose which officers you serve under. You are a servant of our great nation. I've served under a couple of Presidents that would not have angst about sending to meet God. That doesn't matter. What matters is that I love my country, defend it against all enemies, and that I kept my mouth shut about what I thought about my superior officers until I was no longer subject to UCMJ. If someone had tried to kill Clinton on my watch, I would have stopped that attempt - certainly not out of love for the man, but out of devotion to our nation. Like him or not, he was our President - and no honorable soldier could allow harm to come to the person holding that office. (*Special note to Bill: I'm not subject to UCMJ any longer, mind if I hire Chelsea and show her how female employees are supposed to be treated?)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2015 5:45 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:06 -0500

Yes, no question about it. That is on of the core principals when serving within the military. Presidents and politics change. If everyone agreed to this, you would have mass service members exiting every 4/8 years. It would be a different story if there were no term limits and etc.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 26 at 2015 6:02 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:02:53 -0500

Yes, so long as he met the Constitutional requirements of office.