Did CSM Basil Plumley steal valor by wearing unauthorized awards?

COL Sam Russell — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:24:33 -0400

"The U.S. Army is investigating allegations by a military researcher that the late Command Sgt. Major Basil Plumley -- a legend in the airborne and infantry communities -- wore unauthorized combat and valor awards that exaggerated the wartime achievements that made him famous.

"Among the many documents Siddall provides in his research is an Oct. 2, 2015, letter from Army Lt. Col Wil Neubauer, chief of Awards and Decorations Branch, confirming that Plumley was authorized to wear one CIB and states that "we are unable to verify" the Combat Infantry Badge with "one star" listed on Plumley's DD Form 214.

"In that same photo, Plumley wore valor awards he did not earn, Siddall wrote. Plumley wore a Silver Star with a bronze oak leaf cluster, which indicates a second Silver Star. Plumley also wore a Bronze Star with a V device for valor and one bronze oak leaf cluster for two awards.

"The October 2015 letter from the Army states Plumley was authorized only one Silver Star and the Bronze Star with one oak leaf cluster, not two OLCs. The letter also states that Plumley was not authorized to wear the V device with his Bronze Star medals."

Please read the article before commenting.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/17/army-investigating-we-were-soldiers-legend-for-inflating-award.html

Army Investigating 'We Were Soldiers' Legend for Inflating Awards

The U.S. Army is investigating allegations that the late Command Sgt. Major Basil Plumley wore unauthorized combat and valor awards.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 17 at 2016 10:25 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:25:45 -0400

That is very sad that SGM Basil Plumley wore awards he was not authorized COL Sam Russell.
I wonder if had a form of dementia which made him believe he was awarded something he wasn't.
I hope there is a good reason that he wore what he apparently was not awarded. One possibility is that his awards are non-redacted awards for valor in sensitive operations.
In any event I hope that there are good reasons for his wearing what he seems not to have been authorized.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made May 17 at 2016 10:29 AM

SFC Thomas Howes — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:29:57 -0400

Why I look at it he is gone why drag him through the dirt and his family

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made May 17 at 2016 10:32 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:32:38 -0400

"...Plumley's DD 214 does not match the official letter from the Army's Awards and Decoration Branch"

"The fact that the DoD could not verify all of the CSM's awards is not surprising given the lack of rigor in the maintenance of records in the 1940s"

Harsh charges against a man that is dead and cannot defend himself. The discrepancies in the official records explain how these screw-ups can happen.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made May 17 at 2016 10:33 AM

MGySgt James Forward — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:33:04 -0400

Read the entire article. Appears to show that the Late CSM may have inflated his quota of awards. For one, I would never have put out in the press. This should have been handled "Back Channel" as there is no reason to blacken his reputation as he is no longer here to defend himself. I believe that benefit of doubt should go to the CSM.

Response by SSG Alvin Amezquita made May 17 at 2016 10:33 AM

SSG Alvin Amezquita — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:33:27 -0400

I think there must be an explanation for this. Because I cannot believe that man with such honor and integrity can do such a thing. They are going to say that after so many years of service he all of a sudden decided to steal valor. No something smells and it smells bad.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 17 at 2016 10:35 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:35:06 -0400

COL Sam Russell it is still possible that the awards were legitimate. I get so weary of this constant stolen valor quest,

Response by SGT David T. made May 17 at 2016 10:37 AM

SGT David T. — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:17 -0400

I can't and wont say either way. Just because the Army doesn't have record of it, does not mean that he wasn't awarded them. It's not like they did everything digitally back then. It's possible he could have been awarded them, and the service's copies were lost. Army record keeping isn't the most reliable thing even today.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made May 17 at 2016 10:38 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:38:31 -0400

Sir, I'm torn on this one. I'd like to see it left alone. The man is a legend regardless of service, but with the Stolen Valor clowns running rampant today, his records should be corrected to show the correct awards and accomplishments. I STILL would feel fine if it was left alone.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 10:41 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:41:51 -0400

Unfortunately, this soldier is not here to defend himself. I would just leave this one be and let him and his family rest on the fact that he served his country well.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made May 17 at 2016 10:55 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:55:30 -0400

He fought in three wars. And didn't the Army lose a lot of records in a fire some years ago? My dad went through hell trying to get his.!

Response by PFC Alexander Oliveira made May 17 at 2016 11:14 AM

PFC Alexander Oliveira — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:14:54 -0400

theres gotta be a good reason behind this. as big of a name as he was and as in the public eye as he was. theres no way he would've worn unauthorized awards knowingly. maybe its a lot of little things. who knows.

Response by SGT William Howell made May 17 at 2016 11:23 AM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:23:49 -0400

I am not defending or accusing this man of anything, but just a thought, My DD-214 does not have all my medals awarded to me and this was in the age of computers. It does not matter to me because the only part I care about is the "Honorable Discharge".

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 11:28 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:28:58 -0400

After the shit he went through in the Ia Drang I am sure CSM Plumley gave a rats ass about awards. As others have mentioned I seriously doubt the administrative paperwork was completely accurate during that period of time. He probably didn't give two shits about updating his 201/ERB before he retired and I am sure it reflects on his DD 214, that happens all the time in this time period.

He was a great American just let the man rest in peace.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made May 17 at 2016 11:30 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:30:17 -0400

Personally, I'm pretty careful about pissing on the WWII/ Korea era guys legs when it comes to awards. On several occasions I've seen the old guys be questioned and they had orders for everything it just didn't show on the DD214. Also lots of records were damaged and outright destroyed in the fire at St. Louis.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 11:38 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:38:37 -0400

So, what I would like to know is what brought on this investigation?

Response by SCPO Joshua I made May 17 at 2016 11:39 AM

SCPO Joshua I — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:39:30 -0400

One Silver Star instead of two? V on a Bronze Star?

Given the record keeping issues in the past and the fact the guy is obviously a bona fide war hero, I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. It makes no difference now, really.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made May 17 at 2016 11:50 AM

CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:50:57 -0400

Let him sleep.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 12:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:09:10 -0400

COL Russell -
Right is right; wrong is wrong … I get it … but I just can’t bring myself to judging a man who can’t defend himself. I am however having troubles reconciling Mr. Siddall’s statement,

"I just want the correct information out there because there are so many people that are really heroes, and it is so frustrating when they give the hero status to someone who was anything but,”

Homo sapiens are an odd animal in that we are surprised to discover that our heroes are mortals who are subject to the flaws and failing of our species. One such is our pride and another, envy. I cannot attest to all the awards worn by CSM Plumley but his actions at the Ia Drang clearly earned him that status and to flippantly say he was “given” it seems somewhat prejudicial and contrary to Mr. Siddall’s ethical position as an “independent researcher”.

If the documents or lack of thereof, fail to support the awards as adjudicated by an inquiry and proper board then, the right thing must be done. However, I would not be surprised if CSM Plumley is continued to be looked upon with little tarnish to his reputation as his actions at the Ia Drang firmly cemented him as a hero.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 17 at 2016 12:11 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:11:20 -0400

Right now my DD-214 does not show the Joint Meritorious Unit award given to V Corps while I was with them in Iraq, nor does it show the OIF medal and GWOTE medal I am authorized. And I have also learned I am now authorized to wear the DANCON March Medal, also not listed. I guess some day I need to file for a DD-215, plus I also have orders for an AAM issued after my DD-214 was issued.
Wonder if this might have happened to the CSM? I'm not making calls either way.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made May 17 at 2016 12:16 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:16:36 -0400

I deleted the original comment as to not cause someone to start sobbing from hurt feelings.....can we come together for a group frickin hug and sing a campfire song about how much we like everyone while we got Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen putting their ass on the line every day and night!

So, we can continue to boo-hoo about how we think this salty dog that gave so much of himself to give us a chance to decide how we f'in feel about ourselves or we can simply lace our boots up and practice PME abilities because with crap like this in senior officer schools houses, we lack the physical, mental and emotional toughness to be leaders.....need to see what the hell is really going up there in Carlisle and get the class focused on the threat of 2025 - 2030 & beyond.....hell, let's hear about one of your peers = COL Johnson (173 ABN) and his shenanigans, how he cheated on his wife, and was still able to retire while enlisted men getting maxed the hell out continuously at their courts martial because they cannot afford the defense team....I rarely get on this site lately because of touchy feely bullshit.....get your game face on COL Sam Russelland straighten your peers out there in Carlisle. Now for me, its time to go for a lunchtime run because my blood pressure is soaring.....and, for those that have not served in the Infantry (and want a CIB)....encourage them to reclass and chase a star or two for their own CIB for themselves....gonna bash this man that served on multiple fronts while we have many trying not to deploy and so many slick sleeves running their mouths (I see your CAB so do not take that as a jab COL Sam Russell)......problem is the younger generation will not understand the entirety of the situation....let's develop and share the entire situation here.....your turn.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made May 17 at 2016 12:21 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:21:54 -0400

If this is a War College "school project" it is disgusting to air it here.....take the team to the golf course instead, Sir!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 12:26 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:26:40 -0400

I wrote out some long diatribe on this...then deleted it in favor of a better statement (Seid got it right anyhow): You know what? If I had earned a CIB and a few oak leaf clusters on a Bronze Star-Hell, I'd go put 'em on the man's grave and say, "Here, he can have mine."

Response by SPC Tony Fewell made May 17 at 2016 12:39 PM

SPC Tony Fewell — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:39:00 -0400

Wasn't there a fire in the records branch years ago and a lot of the file of WWII veterans were lost?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 12:52 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:52:41 -0400

Well, the Air Force "Lost" three of my awards. Did I stop wearing them? No. Were they on my DD214? No. However, I had copies of my award letters and even the award entries in my Navy PIF. So, this does not surprise me. I assumed the CSM saw combat in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. That would answer the issue of his CIB's.

It is appalling that the Army cannot figure out how badly it (and the others services) make mistakes, Horrible and ever lasting mistakes.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made May 17 at 2016 1:03 PM

CSM Michael Poll — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:03:45 -0400

Who in here has all of their medals on their DD214? I know I have a few that never made it there including my LOM. I have the certificate, but if this is lost then after I pass will someone look at my photo and say I was stealing valor? I fully believe specifically for the WWII, Korea and Vietnam area, that there were paperwork mishaps and they just never got on his records. Maybe this one should be put in the back woodshed and left there.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made May 17 at 2016 1:04 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:04:55 -0400

I don't know, but I do know that that your records can be screwed up by some admin clerk, and it's your fault for not keeping it straight. Perhaps that it all he is guilty of. As far as his WWII service, he very well could have had an Infantryman MOS assigned as a scout to an Arty Bn. As a scout, he very well could have made the jumps with the Pathfinders, ahead of the glider artillery. For Korea, the 187th ARCT was based in Japan, made its first jump in Oct 1950 and second in March '51. According to the story, he was at Ft. Campbell in 1951. He could have very well made the first jump in 1950. Given his status as a jumpmaster with combat jump experience (presumably), he could have been TDY with the 187th for the jump. Not sure if back then Paratroopers kept accurate jump logs, or even cared about it. I also find it hard to believe that an officer of the caliber of Hal Moore would not have vetted his CSM and his service record, let alone vouch for it. I would have to give the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made May 17 at 2016 1:08 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:08:48 -0400

COL Sam Russell, why did no one mention this while he was still alive?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 1:09 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:09:58 -0400

No rest for the weary...or even the dead. Jeez.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 1:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:18:48 -0400

Does someone think they are Woodward and Bernstein?

Response by CSM David Heidke made May 17 at 2016 1:27 PM

CSM David Heidke — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:27:20 -0400

I don't know. Looking at his ribbon rack it doesn't look like he's inflating anything. I've seen officers who never left Fort Dix with ribbons over the shoulder.

If this great man were alive, he would probably pull a ragged piece of paper from a folder he kept in a foot locker to prove that he was authorized to wear what he wore.

Some Commissioned weenie probably lost the original orders.

Response by SN Greg Wright made May 17 at 2016 1:43 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:43:51 -0400

Oh come on, let the man rest in peace. Certainly don't count on decades-old, pre-computing records to be accurate.

Response by SPC David S. made May 17 at 2016 1:55 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:55:19 -0400

Purple Heart with three Oak Leaf Clusters and at least one Silver Star for courage and valor he showed during the Battle of Ia Drang Valley - not to forget the 10 Service Stripes. That's all I need to know about him. The man is dead let him rest in peace.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made May 17 at 2016 2:18 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:18:06 -0400

This shouldn't have been brought up since the CSM is deceased, no need to make his family bare any pain and embarrassment. Let CSM Plumley rest in peace after all he did served with honors, it is a slip up that got by too late.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made May 17 at 2016 2:18 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:18:50 -0400

Most anyone that has served even today knows paperwork gets lost, thrown out or misfiled, so WWII time frame would have been much worse and Korea the same. It is the piss poor character of the idiot investigating this that he waited until CSM Plumley had passed to stir the shit. I have seen it with my records and more recently before I retired I took over a 1SG position and did an inventory of the file cabinets and found a MSG's retirement MSM award from ten years earlier. I searched for his last good address and sent it to his family, he had died 5 years earlier. The investigator is a scumbag plain and simple.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 2:41 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:41:54 -0400

No need to tarnish the reputation of a great NCO. This whole situation is in poor taste. Back then there was no iPERMS and internet to record documents. He probably was awarded them but there are little to no record of it. I've had to request corrections for missing documents numerous times to fix my record. And I'm still missing earned awards on my 214.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made May 17 at 2016 3:42 PM

SFC Thomas Howes — Tue, 17 May 2016 15:42:02 -0400

Both mu uncles were 101st and I have photos of them wearing awards that do not match there DD214 and let me tell you. I be leave everything they told me what happen they no reason to lie about it from Normandy to Baston to the Eagles nest hell one of my uncles has jump wings and glider wings he would only wear the jump but he did get the glider ones also they both have purple harts not record on there records hell they had to show medical records to get that changed so do a lot of WWII Vets wear medals that are not on there records and did they earn them I would say yes like CPT Waddell says the recording of records was screwed up back then

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 3:43 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 15:43:44 -0400

let the man rest in peace

Response by MSG Martin C. made May 17 at 2016 4:26 PM

MSG Martin C. — Tue, 17 May 2016 16:26:25 -0400

This is a hard one for the Army. Records have never been the service and VA strengths. I personally experienced this when one container containing my tough box and the carrer counselor tough box was blown up in Iraq, we lost the original and SM copies of my third re-enlistment. Until this day that's the only documents o have not been able to track. I am indefinitely now but the Army can't even produce the scanned copies.
The CSM is death and not able to defend himself we should just live it alone.

Response by GySgt Robert Harbick made May 17 at 2016 4:28 PM

GySgt Robert Harbick — Tue, 17 May 2016 16:28:14 -0400

The man is dead - let him rest in peace!

Response by John Urban made May 17 at 2016 4:52 PM

John Urban — Tue, 17 May 2016 16:52:06 -0400

As my father would say this researcher wouldn't make a good pimple on a PFC'S ass...

Response by Capt Michael Greene made May 17 at 2016 5:04 PM

Capt Michael Greene — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:04:37 -0400

First, old Army records are not always right. I have my father's record and the summary lists are obviously wrong. Second, Plumley died at 92 years of age--now Siddell wants to investigate him?!?! That's wrong. This investigation should never have been publicized.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made May 17 at 2016 5:04 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:04:56 -0400

The Army NEVER loses paper work, they also DO NOT lose any awards that have been awarded to a soldier at anytime in ones military career. The Army is full of people that DO there job with out FAIL. They always do the RIGHT thing and make sure that EVERY soldier has proper documentation in their file to TRUTHFULLY show that everything that was ever given them or that they EARNED was in said file! So there for CSM Plumley MUST be a LIAR and should be hanged from a yard arm AFTER his death! PLEASE SEE THE SARCASM in this!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 5:23 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:23:11 -0400

We are aware of the story released by military .com about the late CSM. Plumley. We have been aware of the story for some time now. We are close friends with the Plumley family and have been speaking with them on a regular basis. What we do know is some of the so called facts in that story are just not true. The reporter at no time even reached out to the CSM's family, to see if they might have had some records to provide.
The "researcher", who himself has never even served one day in the military based all of his findings on only stuff he could find through a FOIA request. Now in my years of doing this I can tell you WWII was one of the worst times for record keeping. Not only that, but if you went over as say a combat engineer and someone wanted you to be an 11B, guess what you were an 11B! You didn't come back to the US to change MOS's! You were then an Infantryman and could have them earned a CIB! So this researcher had no clue how the military worked, decided he would go after Plumley.
Not to mention this Brian Siddell also has a personal vendetta against Joe Galloway and LTC Moore, which I also expressed to the reporter before he published this story.
When I spoke to the reporter at Military . Com and showed him all the discrepancies in this research and told him the family had tons of paperwork he told me they were holding the story based on all the questions. I guess his longing for ratings and a popular story got the best of him.
Well we won't stand by and let him trash a true hero. We will work with the family and try to get this out away. They don't need this and the CSM isn't here to defend himself. We ask that you don't share that trash of a story for the CSM's sake of his family. We will Keep you informed. ~ Bulldog1

Just wanted to add to what my buddy Bulldog said, in 1973 there was a fire that wiped out 80% of the records from Korea and WW2, so I am wondering myself how accurate the guys research could be on the era???~Fred.

https://www.facebook.com/StolenValor/posts/ [login to see] 08814

Stolen Valor - We are aware of the story released by... | Facebook

We are aware of the story released by military .com about the late CSM. Plumley. We have been aware of the story for some time now. We are close friends...

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made May 17 at 2016 5:34 PM

CW2 Carl Swanson — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:34:54 -0400

This reminds me of the charges against the former Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Boorda, for wearing unauthorized V devices on 2 ribbons. He killed himself. The "journalist" Colonel David Hackworth later had to defend his own awards.
Nothing to gain here, "researcher" not fully doing his research.
Breaks my heart that we have douche bags doing real stolen valor and this knucklehead wants to go after a real hero.(Who is not here to defend himself)

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 17 at 2016 5:43 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:43:26 -0400

To accuse Basil Plumley of Stealing Valor is like accusing the US Mint of counterfeiting money. Basil Plumley is valor personified. I now really want to dig into the background of the guy leveling the charges and see if he ever had the balls to wear a uniform or face the enemy. Something tells me NO, since in the article he states what his daddy and uncle did. For someone to make a big deal out of this who never saw combat, and as was stated the 214 and records did not match, I would ask what does the 214 say.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 5:47 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:47:26 -0400

From I've read the "investigator" has an axe to grind. CSM Plumley, regardless of the validity of the allegations, is a man I would call a hero. What good does tearing him down do at this point?

This reminds me of the witch-hunt over COL Hackworth's Ranger tab. The man retired with 10 silver stars, 8 bronze stars, and 8 purple hearts. Needless to say he didn't have anything to prove. As it turned out, the discrepancy was the Army's fault.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made May 17 at 2016 6:00 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:00:49 -0400

let it go the man is dead let his memory rest in peace. Who's running this witch hunt anyway and what is his motivation?

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made May 17 at 2016 6:04 PM

CW2 Carl Swanson — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:04:32 -0400

This "researcher" is from Ithaca, NY. He seems to spend a lot of time going after dead veterans. This is not exactly a military friendly part of the country. We had a joke when I lived near there...Ithaca, 10 square miles surrounded by reality.
I will take his "research" for the military hate spewing that it is.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made May 17 at 2016 6:17 PM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:17:55 -0400

I'm just going to have to side with my battle buddy, a former CSM of 1-7. Seems this Siddell character has had a 10-year grudge with CSM Plumley, LTG Moore and Joe Galloway -- even the folks at Stolen Valor were interviewed for this piece yet their evidence refuting the story was not included --

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made May 17 at 2016 6:58 PM

MAJ Bill Maynard — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:58:16 -0400

If you are looking for someone with stolen valor who is still alive, why don't we all question our Secretary of State John Kerry and leave great Soldiers like CSM Plumley to rest in peace!!!

Response by GySgt Lawrence Salcido made May 17 at 2016 7:34 PM

GySgt Lawrence Salcido — Tue, 17 May 2016 19:34:09 -0400

Come on guys! Admin never screws up awards and everyone is paid on time...yeah right. The awards process is flawed I speak from experience. It can be corrected over time but once again you go through 100 yards of crap. Leave this man alone he served honorable, there are bigger fish to fry.

Response by SGT Michael Sholtis made May 17 at 2016 7:52 PM

SGT Michael Sholtis — Tue, 17 May 2016 19:52:43 -0400

As to the CIB he served in combat in WW II Korea and Vietnam. Are you really going to say that a Man who served in 3 wars did not receive two awards for a CIB ? Also It would not be the first time that DA screwed up someone's Records would it? Why tarnish a mans reputation when he cannot defend himself? Seems more like a personal grudge to me.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 8:37 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 20:37:54 -0400

I hate this kind of witch hunt. The man is a legend because of the way he lead his men. To hell with the awards. He should be remembered for his character and leadership. He's the standard.

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made May 17 at 2016 9:51 PM

1SG Nick Baker — Tue, 17 May 2016 21:51:57 -0400

Well, I guess we need to pull Hal Moore's records too. Since many officers were given awards for being there. Siddwell talk to Plumley in 2011 and the CSM died in 2012. Brian Siddall, an independent researcher; what does that mean? What credibility does he have. Where can I find his peer-reviewed articles? Give me a source with credibility. Bashing dead vets is the next low life stupidity.

As for Korea, ask Task Force Smith. The brilliance of American piss poor decisions. I would question every officers medal first. I know officers with bronze stars that were in the rear and NCO in the front with ARCOMS. What purpose does rally point serve? Vet bashing?

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made May 17 at 2016 9:54 PM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Tue, 17 May 2016 21:54:56 -0400

Why after the CSM has died is this junk coming up now the best time for this was while he was alive.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made May 17 at 2016 10:19 PM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Tue, 17 May 2016 22:19:01 -0400

Awards and decorations
7th Cavalry Regiment Distinctive Unit Insignia
CIB3.gif Combat Infantryman Badge (three awards)
Combat Parachutist Badge 5.gif Master Combat Parachutist Badge with gold star (indicating 5 combat jumps)
Vietnam Army Parachutist Badge
Original Air Assault Badge
Bronze oak leaf cluster Silver Star with one Oak Leaf Cluster
Legion of Merit
Bronze oak leaf cluster Bronze Star with Oak Leaf Cluster and Valor Device
Bronze oak leaf cluster Bronze oak leaf cluster Bronze oak leaf cluster Purple Heart with three Oak Leaf Clusters
Silver oak leaf cluster Bronze oak leaf cluster Bronze oak leaf cluster Bronze oak leaf cluster Air Medal with one silver and three bronze Oak Leaf Clusters
Army Commendation Medal
Bronze oak leaf cluster Bronze oak leaf cluster Army Presidential Unit Citation with two Oak Leaf Clusters
Army Good Conduct Medal (11 awards)
American Defense Service Medal
American Campaign Medal
Arrowhead Silver star Bronze star Bronze star Bronze star European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with Arrowhead device and 1 silver and 3 bronze campaign stars (to signify 8 campaigns)
World War II Victory Medal
Army of Occupation Medal
Bronze star National Defense Service Medal with bronze service star
Arrowhead Bronze star Bronze star Bronze star Korean Service Medal with Arrowhead device and three campaign stars
Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
Silver star Bronze star Bronze star Bronze star Vietnam Service Medal with one silver and three bronze campaign stars
French Croix de Guerre (for World War II service) (attachments unknown, but at least 1 bronze star)
BEL Croix de Guerre 1944 ribbon.svg Belgian Croix de Guerre (for World War II service) (attachments unknown, but at least 1 bronze lion)
Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Bronze Star
Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation
Gallantry Cross Unit Citation.png Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation with Palm
Civil Action Unit Citation.png Vietnam Civil Actions Unit Citation
United Nations Service Medal for Korea
Vietnam Campaign Medal
Republic of Korea War Service Medal
Order of Saint Maurice Primicerius and Doughboy Award
10 Service Stripes, indicating 30–32 years of service

Response by CW2 Louis Melendez made May 17 at 2016 10:21 PM

CW2 Louis Melendez — Tue, 17 May 2016 22:21:23 -0400

Sir, I'm going to keep it short and simple. There is not that much to talk about since the CSM will not be able to defend himself nor explain why maybe he was missing stuff on his records.

I think that this individual has something personal against him or just wants to become famous for some reason using the CSM's name.

In my eyes the benefit of doubt goes to the CSM. Let the CSM rest in peace.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made May 17 at 2016 11:24 PM

SSG Leo Bell — Tue, 17 May 2016 23:24:39 -0400

Who is this Siddall guy? What is his point and his purpose? Yes his dad and his uncle may have fought in WWII and got there recognition for there actions. Anyone who has been in the military knows that when you move around allot and go to different theaters of action that paper work gets lost and mixed up with others. He is trying so hard to down grade an American hero like SGM Plumley. SGM did his time and did an outstanding job while he was serving his country. This Siddall guy has he ever served, he he a veteran or a merchant seamen? What does he know about service to his country or your brother who might get killed beside you at any minute. He is putting so much energy in trying to get SGM records together and prove he did something wrong. He should be putting all this time into how to make the world a safer place. This dude sounds like a politician bucking for an at-a-boy.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 17 at 2016 11:48 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 17 May 2016 23:48:22 -0400

THIS JUST HIT ME! CSM Basil Plumley was the CSM for Hal Moore. CSM Plumley and LTG Moore traveled together, made appearances together and were photographed together! IF, and this is a HUGE IF...IF CSM Basil Plumley had EVER worn ANYTHING that he was NOT authorized to wear, Hal Moore would have fixed that ON THE SPOT!
SO, for this guy to question CSM Basil Plumley, he is calling into question LTG Hal Moore, and I don't know ANYONE man nor beast that has a set big enough to question Hal Moore. Somebody needs to feed this "Military Researcher" a jump boot, spit shined toe first and then give him some blood wings with a set of Master Wings with all the mustard stains that CSM Plumley had. AIRBORNE!

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 17 at 2016 11:54 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 17 May 2016 23:54:18 -0400

Very Sad, that someone would put so much work into damaging the image of a hero, who can no longer explain, and/or defend himself. I prefer to believe this a matter of poor record keeping, or non-existent record keeping vs. an overt attempt to device. I agree with MGySgt James Forward the benefit of the doubt should go with CSM Plumley.

Response by SFC Robert Bower made May 18 at 2016 1:51 AM

SFC Robert Bower — Wed, 18 May 2016 01:51:34 -0400

What a shame. ...

Response by SFC Robert Bower made May 18 at 2016 1:54 AM

SFC Robert Bower — Wed, 18 May 2016 01:54:32 -0400

I have alot more than he does, as far as amount. I never really cared about awards. I DO care and am proud of my CIB 2nd award. But, we all know how ompf gets messed up! Maybe he does have what he says. We used typewriters when I came in! LoL

Response by Louis Wesler made May 18 at 2016 2:41 AM

Louis Wesler — Wed, 18 May 2016 02:41:21 -0400

"Lt. Col Wil Neubauer, chief of Awards and Decorations Branch states that "we are unable to verify" listed on Plumley's DD Form 214." The DD-214 unless I am greatly mistaken is supposed to be a listing of the persons military record given to them when they exit the military, or when they retire! The fact that the Chief of Awards and Decorations CAN NOT verify, to be brutal does not mean SQUAT! Considering when my sister and I requested my fathers documentation for a claim against the USAF and the DOJ we received 400+ pages including some from a complete stranger? So I give no credence to this story about Command Sgt. Major Basil Plumley may have or may not have had medals, ribbons or whatever on his uniform that the Military can not verify. The man is dead, let it be! To the Auther find something CONSTURCTIVE to do with your time!

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made May 18 at 2016 2:43 AM

SGT Keith Boettcher — Wed, 18 May 2016 02:43:26 -0400

I say no. But, when I first saw the story I asked myself, what is the purpose and why would a person go around searching for discrepancies and trash on someone, or anyone for that matter.
This is why I have such a "BIG" problem and issue with information be thrown out over the net and social media. If they want to find discrepancies and trash on someone; go after the "MEDIA" they are experts on "B/S" material to include exaggerations !

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made May 18 at 2016 6:57 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Wed, 18 May 2016 06:57:17 -0400

There is a difference between a real soldier and those surplus cammie want to be's at the mall and other events. The military's ability to screw up record keeping is just a famous as Teddy's ride up San Juan Hill as most of us have been bit in the butt at least once by the Remington Raiders (dating myself). I say let the man rest in peace and remember him for what he was, one hell of a soldier!

Response by PFC Don Jenks made May 18 at 2016 7:24 AM

PFC Don Jenks — Wed, 18 May 2016 07:24:40 -0400

I think they should just let it go.. He's a hero

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made May 18 at 2016 8:18 AM

MSG Jay Jackson — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:18:54 -0400

While I agree that this soldier was a hero, let us not forget that an honest an accurate record of a soldiers service is owed to the family and the nation. I do not know all the facts of this issue, but I agree that the Army needs to look at this and clear it up so as to not tarnish this legendary soldier and the image of the military. I will add that the facts about the records fire at the National Records Depository in St. Louis was terrible. According to the agency website 80 percent loss of the records for Army personnel discharged between November 1, 1912 and January 1, 1960. Although it goes on explain how alternate methods are used to document a persons service during this period. Go visit the website and read up on it.
http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html

1973 Fire

Information about military personnel records burned in the fire of 1973 at the National Archives, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Missouri.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 8:47 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:47:42 -0400

There was also a fire that destroyed years of military records at HRC in St Louis some time ago. But no mater what the circumstances, we all should be the honest brokers. I have altered my official photo by removing an award listed on a past DD214, when I couldn't find the actual award itself. I recently found a Glider certificate on my uncle, who was trained but never deployed during WWII. It was not listed on his DD214s? He did serve in Korea as a Armored Cav Scout, was wounded and was awarded a Bronze Star.

Response by MGySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 8:47 AM

MGySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:47:43 -0400

Today a service member can sit down with the admin clerk and review the awards info that is going on the DD 214 (I am glad I did because I know that it is correct and I did not have to rely on anybody else to ensure it was correct). Back in CSM Plumley's day that likely did not happen as personnel admin was spotty at best. But if anyone thinks this guy lied about what he did and did not rate they need to take a good look at themselves.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 9:13 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 09:13:21 -0400

Give him the benefit of the doubt. My grandfather's records from the USMC in WWII were lost in the St. Louis fire and my first DD 214 was definitely not error free.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made May 18 at 2016 9:21 AM

SSG Robert Webster — Wed, 18 May 2016 09:21:45 -0400

Well, I guess that the Army Training Film - Infantry Weapons and Their Effects - was wrong.

Response by PVT Paul Sevy made May 18 at 2016 9:46 AM

PVT Paul Sevy — Wed, 18 May 2016 09:46:56 -0400

No, He had nothing to prove since he had already done so countless times over his career through his actions.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made May 18 at 2016 9:53 AM

SSG Wally Lawver — Wed, 18 May 2016 09:53:00 -0400

We cant keep records straight now with all of our technology,,no surprise his record could be a little screwed up from the days before computers,photocopies,scanners and fax machines. He was a hero his integrity is being questioned, why????

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 9:58 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 09:58:31 -0400

When I joined active duty in 2002, I could not fine my DD 214 from Basic Training, neither the Army. I went through hell with IG and HRC to prove my Guard sercice from 94 to 2002. If I and the Army lost my 214 and the Army didn't have record of my service in that time period imagine al the records from WW I to Desert Storm that are unaccounted for with the lack of technology in that time frame. Let the man rest in peace. To the person doing that research, the only reaso you are doing that is because of brave man like him that fought to protect our Constitution and guarantee our future.

Response by PO1 Darren Martin made May 18 at 2016 10:14 AM

PO1 Darren Martin — Wed, 18 May 2016 10:14:56 -0400

The stolen valor movement is annoying at this point. I understand calling someone out over having never been in the military or by being a complete fraud, but the whole movement has become more annoying over small nuances. Leave the CSM alone who cares.

This article says it all about the stolen valor movement.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/10/28/sacramento-marine-vet-says-he-was-beaten-over-mistaken-case-of-stolen-valor/

Sacramento Marine Vet Says He Was Beaten Over Mistaken Case Of Stolen Valor

It happened over the weekend at The Long Shot, an Arden-area bar. Michael Delfin says the man was looking for a fight, saying Delfin had never served.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made May 18 at 2016 11:43 AM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:43:57 -0400

A 30 year old DD 214 may have been incorrect? No. Say it isn't so!!! Records keeping back then was horrible. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the CSM. Who is this dumb ass researcher anyway and why is he attempting to rewrite history? What next, maybe George Washington never crossed the Potomac.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made May 18 at 2016 11:50 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:50:41 -0400

Because BUPERS and the military as a whole has never screwed up paperwork? I really love the only entitled to wear one silver star. Really? Is that all just one? SLACKER! Oh wait, this coming from a person who didn't serve. Dragging the name of someone who is a war hero, who served this nation in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam through the mud after he has passed and cannot refute the allegations is a cowardly act. The burden of proof is on the accuser. He better be damned sure that what he is touting as fact is actual fact before he tries ruining CSM Plumley's reputation. If he cannot back it up, he may want to think of moving to Canada, just for his own safety.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 18 at 2016 12:16 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Wed, 18 May 2016 12:16:34 -0400

Sure looks like the "thought" he was "entitled" to some awards he didn't earn/deserve. I think HRC and the NPRC will get to the bottom of this. But I'll say I read part of the history and it sure seems like he shook down clothing sales once or twice.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 1:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 13:41:17 -0400

My two pennies worth: I take this article with a grain of salt. CSM Basil Plumley is an American Hero and should be treated as such. This calling into question if he is wearing authorized awards is ridiculous. There are guys running around with SF Tabs, Seal Tridents, Ranger Tabs, etc all over the place. There are meme's of that one CSM impersonator, the fat guy at the mall, etc. That is Stolen Valor. I'm assuming that this author's next move I'd to determine if MAJ Dick Winters stole any valo, maybe determine if COL Ralph Puckett is really a Ranger, look at Audie Murphy ' records for fun. CSM Plumbey deserves to rest in peace. Hopefully the author will come to the same conclusion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 2:23 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 14:23:48 -0400

Who ever is responsible for publishing this should be dragged out and beaten. True or false makes no matter but tarnish the reputation of the man after his death.

Also; The man was a combat veteran. What need would he have had to lie about his awards? Being one; I doubt he gave a shit about what awards he had, as long as it's sitting on his uniform correctly, there comes a point when you realize it does matter.

Response by Sgt William Themann made May 18 at 2016 4:29 PM

Sgt William Themann — Wed, 18 May 2016 16:29:48 -0400

Too late to do anything now. This is pure BS. Leave it alone.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 5:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 17:25:07 -0400

Let's be honest here, our modern day record keeping sucks. Who in their right mind would think that in WW2, Korea, and even Vietnam record keeping was better when it was paper copies.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made May 18 at 2016 6:59 PM

PO1 Jack Howell — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:59:33 -0400

Why does it matter at this point? What purpose would an investigation like this serve? let the man rest in peace.

Response by SGM Robert Parsons made May 19 at 2016 1:17 AM

SGM Robert Parsons — Thu, 19 May 2016 01:17:40 -0400

There is always going to be someone that wants to prove a point even at the time of death. As a retired SGM, I can tell you there are many, many instances, as stated, where the records were not correct due to the records fire, clerical errors, human error, and well inflating. In this instance, it is not the right way to go about this and eventually nothing will be derived from it. I welcome the researcher to research my records and past military awards, go ahead see what is there and see what is not there. I served in many places in the military. Most will tell you that, like me, if you succeeded in the system you had to take the assignments others stayed away from. My only intentions in my career was to take on the responsibilities to utmost of my abilities, like the rest of you. Bottom Line: Stop trying to ride the credibility train on the shoulders of a dead Soldier, carry your own rucksack, pretty sure he did.

Robert Parsons
SGM, USA
RETIRED

Response by SSG Robbie McBride made May 19 at 2016 5:12 AM

SSG Robbie McBride — Thu, 19 May 2016 05:12:27 -0400

So the man is known as a legend, and we have some pogue analyzing his uniform Post Mortem? Must be the Stetson! He's down on the Green, with his brothers flipping all of us off!

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 19 at 2016 8:53 AM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Thu, 19 May 2016 08:53:34 -0400

I hate excuses, probably as much as CSM Plumley did. But I am going to drop one here for him (he's in his external repose so non-attribution is in effect..). The US Army Glider Badge (kick ass looking) was retired through authority of Title 32 USC - §578.95 Glider Badge (Retired) / Rescinded in 1963. He was authorized Basic Parachutist wings - all the way to Master Wings. I don't know anything about the old Army regs of wearing multiple special skill badges. So... Since he was airborne qualified and participated in documented airborne/glider assaults, I'll forgive him wearing the parachute v. gider. But the musterd stains are wrong. AND his SS, BSM, and 3 CIBs (he was a cannon-cocker in WW2) don't fly. Not until evidence bubbles up. Photos of him in uniform looked as if he was complying with AR670-1 (unliked LTG Moore). My take (drum roll - a glider/airborne assault on Clothing Sales).

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made May 19 at 2016 10:08 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Thu, 19 May 2016 10:08:15 -0400

dude was an butt kicker. St.Louis had a fire. Pretty sure he stopped counting what he received. Hell there was a point that I stopped caring and I wasn't a butt kicker like him.

Response by SFC James Ritchie made May 19 at 2016 12:34 PM

SFC James Ritchie — Thu, 19 May 2016 12:34:06 -0400

Jesus Christ. First it's transgender bathrooms and now it's some schmuck trying to berate a dead war hero. Doesn't he have anything better to do,, like go play in traffic?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 12:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 12:40:34 -0400

Has anyone seen an actual discharge paper from WWII era? It's a soup sandwich at best. Here is my grandfather's discharge paper. It wasn't a DD214 it was WD AGO form 100. WD is War Department. If you can't read the form in the photo it reads very poorly. They were hastily typed and the grammar on most are horrible. I've been researching his unit for a news piece I've been working on and even the Patton Museum and Eisenhower museum have little to no information for some units disbanded after WWII. Note: if your worried about my grandfathers PII on the form don't worry he's passed away many years back.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 2:35 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 14:35:57 -0400

Interesting. However, despite the fact that the Army can not verify his CIB awards, he was in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. If an infantryman in combat, which he no doubt was, that would entitle him to a CIB with two stars as he wears.

As for the other awards, he has passed away. No way to get the story. It's possible they were awarded and the paper was lost. It's possible he was told he was awarded them and the papers were never finalized. That has actually happened a lot, and was much more common in the WWII/Korea era.

Regardless, the man is a hero. Why someone dug into this, I don't know. Three wars and a push to dishonor him? We don't know the full story, and at this point, we never will.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 3:08 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 15:08:30 -0400

I believe there was a fire in 1976 that destroyed most Army personnel records. I know this because I am unable to confirm anything on my Grandfather's WWII military service. So, just a couple of points. 1. He is dead! 2. There is a chance that incompetence and fire make it challenging to confirm the CSM's awards. 3. LTG Hal Moore, in his writings, credits CSM Plumley with awards and recognition few can claim. 4. Before we re-write history, we need to be clear about the facts (which, given that men can claim to be women, Hillary can claim to be honest and 'you can keep your doctor' is a selling point of Obamacare, merely confirms that the truth has become flexible.)

Response by PO3 Nichalas Enser made May 19 at 2016 3:14 PM

PO3 Nichalas Enser — Thu, 19 May 2016 15:14:20 -0400

Will just say that without CSM Plumley and all of his records, this will be nearly impossible to figure out, for certain.

The story provides quite a bit of information that folks are asking about/saying, like why the guy was researching, that DD-214s (and predecessors) are not always exact, and more. As for the researcher, Siddall, a quick web search shows that he is anything but unfriendly to the military - he helps folks track down records and information for their relatives who served during World War II and later and, from at least a few articles, has only good things to say about the services and those who fought and served.

No matter the outcome of this story, please take the time to correct any discrepancies in your exit paperwork, now, particularly for personal awards - whether for yourself or your family / descendants.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made May 19 at 2016 3:52 PM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Thu, 19 May 2016 15:52:03 -0400

That soldier has past. He has his cup filled on fiddlers green. Leave him alone.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 6:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 18:26:13 -0400

what about st louis was there a fire or water problem that destoyed thousandes of records

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 12:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 12:50:56 -0400

No.

Response by SCPO John-florida Killin made May 20 at 2016 6:56 PM

SCPO John-florida Killin — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:56:49 -0400

Some people got too much time on their hands. Is anyone out there seriously doubting this guy's intrepidity? I would say if he was wearing them, he earned them. Anyone who served on active duty from WWII through Viet Nam can attest to the fact that military record keeping in all branches of service was haphazard at best. My own records were poorly maintained, and I retired in 1996. They are constantly awarding medals to service men 30 to 40 years after the fact. Who on earth has a job as a military researcher anyway? I'm with Captain Waddell on this one...going after a dead hero who can't defend himself is typical of the bullshit that goes on today. Someone needs to tell Brian Siddell to go home and take up line dancing if he has that much time on his hands. BTW, what branch of service did he serve in?

Response by 1SG Ed Howard made Jun 14 at 2016 4:18 AM

1SG Ed Howard — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 04:18:55 -0400

Does everyone realize that the highest levels at Fort Benning have seen fit to investigate this? I image they did so based on the evidence - the records. Maybe they don't automatically default to saying the records are all messed up. This guy Siddal and whatever his motives might have been becomes irrelevant. So does the movie and the book. No one is happy with this situation but if you want to help, don't waste your time complaining - you should start looking for supporting evidence such as the CSM's name on jump logs and morning reports. Let it be a lesson to all that if you wear the medals, check your records for evidence. This especially goes for the EXTREMELY rare combo of a CIB (3rd award) and Master Parachutist Badge with 5 combat jump Star. I am just amazed this whole thing did not get brought up earlier.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 4:42 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 04:42:24 -0400

the man is a hero let's leave it at that

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jun 14 at 2016 6:45 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 06:45:47 -0400

Saw this article and couldn't help but sympathize with him to a degree thinking what he is doing is perhaps symptomatic of some sort of aging condition like ALS, Parkinson's, or such which results in mental impairments. Hard to believe that he would knowing do such a thing or that his his family is letting him get away with it under any circumstances. Hopefully the Army can resolve this peacefully and let the CSM complete his twilight tour.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jul 20 at 2016 8:38 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:38:55 -0400

COL Sam Russell Was anything ever said or printed on how this was or is being resolved, or is it still open?

Response by COL Sam Russell made Jul 21 at 2016 9:55 PM

COL Sam Russell — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:55:47 -0400

This is how we should all remember such an American hero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0FMUyv4XIY

Basil L. Plumley

A True American Hero. He fought in WWII, Korea, And Viet Nam.

Response by 1SG Ed Howard made Jul 27 at 2016 10:11 PM

1SG Ed Howard — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:11:05 -0400

Everyone seems to be asking - why look into this issue now- after all, the man is dead. This issue must be vetted NOW because it will leave future researchers scratching their heads for generations to come. If you have not seen the records, you really must do so to understand the gravity of the situation. Take a look at the CSM's records (posted on Siddell's website) and you will understand. Then ask yourself if you can write this off as clerical errors or WWII incompetent clerk-typists or whatever. If this can be attributed to errors, then it is a 3 decade long list of "consistent errors" : an artillery scout in WWII who served in artillery units for the majority of his career and was stationed in specific artillery units CONUS and Germany during Korea. I'm just being a realist and saying this has to be sorted out in an unbiased way and NOW is better than later. And to those of you who say -"He's dead so just let it be". All I can tell you is that you are doing him no favors because generations from now, NO ONE will shy away from researching this, just like how we today when we don't think twice about researching Civil War generals. So it is better to look into it NOW while there might be some favorable info out there other than those records. He needs all the help he can get because those records will be archived forever and they do not look good for him.

Response by CMSgt Mike Esser made Jul 28 at 2016 12:01 AM

CMSgt Mike Esser — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 00:01:50 -0400

Can we all agree he was a Hero? He was.
We all know it's not possible for the Administration branch to screw the pooch...lol. I salute the late SGM

Response by 1SG Ed Howard made Aug 18 at 2016 2:29 PM

1SG Ed Howard — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:29:25 -0400

Fought in 3 wars and made 5 combat jumps. I wonder how many have done that. I have never heard of any others. if anyone knows of any, please sound off.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 15 at 2016 1:58 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 01:58:33 -0400

First He sure didn't have to pad the awards, He had plenty of them. Second, record does miss things from time to time, that is why there is a process for Correction of Military Records and they can be corrected provided there is supporting documentation that can be provided. once the documentation is provided the records are corrected and You are provided a copy of that documentation and issued the ribbons and hanging medals that are due You. If You have these already listed on Your DD Form 214 and have the issue documents and the issued medals seems that should be enough anyway. If Your missing items that can be corrected as I mentioned before but its not automatic, You have to pursue that or if a veteran is deceased a family member can follow up.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Dec 3 at 2016 8:54 PM

MSgt George Cater — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 20:54:07 -0500

All the quibbling about his medals can be dismissed as some have said due to incomplete record keeping during WW2. However, my wonder is how no one noticed how you can't get 3 CIBs for only WW2 & Vietnam. He didn't go to Korea and wears no ribbons from there. Plus only if he converted glider wing assault stars to his jump wings could he possibly have had as many combat stars on his jump wings as he ultimately wore. His photos show no Korea ribbons so I discount third party tribute pages to him that inexplicably show him having all possible service awards for Korea.
Alas, it is all water under the bridge... no indication he ever profited financially by the mistakes. Let it be.
Better to put our efforts into dealing with the phonies among us these days who are getting $$$ from the VA & charitable organizations for their fraudulent claims.

Response by 1SG Ed Howard made Mar 2 at 2017 8:55 PM

1SG Ed Howard — Thu, 02 Mar 2017 20:55:39 -0500

CSM Plumley had a strange relationship with many of his disputed awards - he never spoke of them. Has anyone in this blog heard of him actually SAYING he fought in the Korean War? or that he was an Infantryman in WWII? Or anything at all about his pre-Vietnam Silver Star? or saying he had 5 combat jumps (or even one)? Other than him silently "proclaiming" them with their presence on his uniform, that is. And strangely, even when interviewed by Phil Nordike, he rightly described his artillery scout actions in WWII but did not mention any action that would hint at qualifying him for the CIB for that war - an important omission given that he wore a CIB for WWII. Furthermore, he never wore any ribbons specific to the Korean War. I have NEVER seen a photo of him with combat jump stars on his parachute badge.
He wore a 1-award CIB just prior to Vietnam, as shown in a 1963 Fort Benning newspaper photo. Also, there is a post-Vietnam photo of him wearing a 2-award CIB. Finally, his DD214 lists a 2-award CIB. Then in 1983 Joe Galloway wrote an article stating for the first time anywhere, that he was a 3-award CIB recipient with 4 combat jumps in WWII and 1 combat jump in Korea. Then comes the book in 1992 and the movie in 2001. Well, with records and ribbons in such contradiction, and him being quite a public figure admired by millions, one would think he would feel obligated to straighten out his records. But no. Instead he abstained from comment about anything but his actual Vietnam experiences. Now to those of you who say, "just let it go - he's dead and cant defend himself so its OK" I want to suggest to you that SOLDIERS are worthy of being told the truth. (same goes for Navy, Marines, Air Force of course)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2017 11:40 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Mar 2017 11:40:34 -0500

In the Army now with all the technology we have and things still fall off our records all the time. I have known people personally that this happened, the Army did not have a record of the AAM of course because things are not kept forever by units. Years ago during his time in the Army I am sure this was much harder. I would say the only questionable one is the "V" I would think there would be more of a record of an heroic event. The others he earned the badge he may have earned the additional ones or he may have just lost count of what he did earn. I think it would be a different situation if he was just adding several random awards that he never earned.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Mar 4 at 2017 11:34 AM

MSgt George Cater — Sat, 04 Mar 2017 11:34:09 -0500

I think the main thing is the number of combat jump stars on his wings. He wasn't in Korea so he couldn't possibly have a combat jump there. Same thing for the 3rd award CIB. And if he wasn't in Korea, he couldn't possibly have 3 CIB's. He's one helluvaguy, no doubt at all, but no Korean Service Medal on his rack should have been a big red flag even before he retired.
But realistically some people are too legendary to fail it seems. Had a DI School instructor (all gunnies) at PISC in 72 who prided himself on doing 20+ pull-ups. Used to show off all the time. Trouble was this was back in the old days when it was dead hang - NO kipping pull-ups. He'd kip all the way through then monitor students doing dead hang. No one dared call him on it. Perhaps the same thing applied with Plumley. Just a theory.

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 4 at 2017 8:33 PM

SFC George Smith — Sat, 04 Mar 2017 20:33:21 -0500

There is No Doubt he was a hero and a Leader and Inspired many Future NCO and Senior NCO... My Company and later Bn CSM was a Sg tE5 under his command...
The man Is gon Let Him Go... Face it he Fought in 3 major Wars... WTH did the Whiners ever do...

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Mar 31 at 2017 12:39 AM

CW4 Angel C. — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 00:39:14 -0400

I really can't understand these stolen valor hawks! The whole stolen valor law was created for fake veterans, 18 year old fake CSMs, and the like. Not to question a dead veterans' integrity or where he got this ribbon or that one. I know I'm not the only one that ain't got time for that. But then again there's the stolen valor vigilantes ("military researchers" lol) out there contacting their buddies at the Pentagon so they can look up this guy or the other' records. I got better crap to do like enjoying life after the military man!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 9:26 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Apr 2017 09:26:54 -0400

Go chase real Stolen Valor candidates... this man fought in 3 wars and not on the sidelines... dead in the middle of the action. I am confident he wore what he thought had been awarded to him, whether the paperwork... and it was ALL paper back then, captured it properly or not. We should spend time chasing people who never served or clearly never were assigned to combat zones and are wearing decorations or rank or uniforms they are not authorized in order to fool the public for personal gain. CSM Plumley is NOT that guy by a long shot.

Response by MSG James Hughs made Apr 23 at 2017 8:29 AM

MSG James Hughs — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 08:29:59 -0400

I have a very low tolerance for people who "Steal Valor"....I have even been sued for libel because I exposed a poser in my newspaper column.... ( he lost)..... but to quote a well known Democrat, "At this point, what the hell difference does it make now".... I would be less tolerant if CSM Plumley had been a "total" poser.... but this man "paid dues".....
For me the military awards system is highly flawed. As a combat veteran I have seen the awards system abused and corrupted....troops that deserve awards were often neglected.... troops were given awards they not only did not deserve but they were sometimes given simply to boost morale.
Does any combat experienced veteran, who did the research, actually believe John Kerry earned a "silver star".....?
Some people who knew I was a "green beret" asked me if I would check out a "retired green beret general with nine tours in Vietnam"...... needless to say I was highly suspicious..... when we met in a local restaurant I coined him.... he had no clue.... later as my friends gathered around me wanting my findings.... I said, " It does not matter. Look in his eyes, he is dying. Let him die with his dignity" Two months later he died. You do things for a reason.... to accomplish something important.... why destroy people and get no actual positive results. CSM Plumley ....by accident or even intentionally wear false awards how does shaming him now accomplish anything positive. He was a hero.

Response by 1SG Ed Howard made Apr 27 at 2017 6:38 PM

1SG Ed Howard — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:38:16 -0400

Does anyone know of CSM Plumley ever saying he fought in Korea? It seems everyone BUT him says he fought in Korea. In a 1965 photo in the Ft Benning newspaper he is seen wearing the 1st Award CIB prior to deployment to Vietnam. Also he wore no Korean War ribbons. Also a photo of him at Ft Benning just after Vietnam wearing a 2nd Award CIB (I star). Even his DD214 says he is entitled to the 2nd Award CIB. It seems it was not until his later years as an old man that he wore the 3rd Award CIB (2 stars) - such as in the above 2010 photo. Does everyone on this blog take a "see-no-evil" approach? There are some real questions out there that deserve a reasonable amount of scrutiny. So go ahead and ask the hard questions. You are not disgracing the man by doing so - you are being an NCO / CO. Because its ok to be a follower sometimes but not a blind follower (of a Hollywood movie).

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Oct 23 at 2017 6:47 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Mon, 23 Oct 2017 18:47:25 -0400

First time reading this and it makes me sick! Though a year old posting, shame that this misinformation is still on here to read... I don’t believe it for a minute!

Response by SN Ron Jett made Dec 4 at 2017 5:10 PM

SN Ron Jett — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 17:10:10 -0500

My problem with this article is that we have some civilian weenie(who has never served a day in uniform) trying to denigrate a great soldier.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 5 at 2017 1:43 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 01:43:34 -0500

Lets see now the Siddall character questions a mans record for having in three wars that He served in Combat as an infantryman for having earned a CIB in each of those three wars. I wasn't Army but I thought that an infantry man the served in combat was qualified. Siddall seems in many places to say exactly the opposite on several subjects. Was the Siddall character even a Veteran ? His father was but it sure sounds like He wasn't. What is His problem ? I've never been too impressed by some of the Army record keeping anyway and they seem to be pretty good a losing things according to many people that have served in the Army and not to pick on just the Army, many large organizations some times have trouble keeping track of things. When I went in the Air Force My recruiter told Me any paper they give You keep it, You may need it later to prove things. He was right, I have had to use that paperwork from time to time. Never had anything that couldn't be resolved but You never know.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Dec 5 at 2017 8:03 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:03:37 -0500

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/army-not-amending-war-heros-record.html

I'd seen this after reading that earlier stuff, I just thought you should all see it, obviously...did seriously make me feel better about that whole thing, you know?

Army Not Amending War Hero’s Record

Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley will not have his military records amended by US Army officials. There are discrepancies in his records that call into

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Dec 5 at 2017 10:40 AM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:40:22 -0500

Not one of these people would have stepped up to him while he was alive, this is small and weasel like to even suggest such a thing. This surely comes from some desk jockey who never saw combat or is frustrated for not being the heroes they wish to be seen as...something stinks and it is usually an ego which stinks the most.
R.I.P. CSM Plumley, We warriors hold you in the highest regards!
Everyone else simply needs to stand down.
Steady on

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Dec 5 at 2017 10:58 AM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:58:29 -0500

CSM Plumley has passed away and now there are those that want to correct his record?, why not do that when he was alive. I'm all for correct history but we live in a time of Sanitized History. Keeping Military Records straight is not easy. take a look at ERB's and see how correct they are. Need to start somewhere but not in the past.

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Dec 5 at 2017 4:05 PM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:05:00 -0500

There are plenty of military "posers" for the stolen valor guys to go after. Many of them are panhandlers trying to score money for drinks or other " illicit activities". Any investigator that wants to besmirch CSM Plumley's reputation, needs to have a "behind the barracks" counseling session...Great men didn't do what they did for the medals and ribbons...they do it for their country.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Dec 5 at 2017 5:24 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:24:45 -0500

Brian Siddall is a douche bag, he waits until the CSM is dead to do stupid crap like this? Anyone with a ounce of grey matter knows orders get lost, admin can sometimes forget to update PQR's and things fall between the cracks. CSM Plumbley more than paid the price and if he were alive and a little younger he would break his foot off up Siddalls ass.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Dec 5 at 2017 6:10 PM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:10:00 -0500

I'm certainly no fan of John Kerry but there is no way he could approve his own award. More likely some incompetent above him signed off on it without reading the citation.

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made Dec 5 at 2017 9:31 PM

MSG Frederick Otero — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 21:31:35 -0500

I remember that there was a big fire that destroyed many records, late 60's if i remember correctly. Benefit of the doubt certainly called for.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Dec 5 at 2017 11:04 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 23:04:53 -0500

Frankly, I have more faith in the late CSM than I do the military's ability to keep correct records. Someone like him has no reason to inflate his service; he was already a hero to every person who ever wore the uniform after him. What reason would he have to wear an extra device or two? Pretty sure the military fucked up here not the CSM.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Dec 7 at 2017 4:39 PM

LTC John Griscom — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 16:39:02 -0500

A DD214 should only be considered accurate for a period of active service. Too many times, orders for awards are either late or get lost. I got an award during Desert Storm that never made to my records. Found the orders and citation when I went back Saudi Arabia in 1994. They were in a stack with other documents that had never left 22nd SUPCOM.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jun 16 at 2018 8:10 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 20:10:46 -0400

Served in WWII. Served in Korea. Served in Vietnam. One two three CIB awards. So far as I know even when he was in 7th Cav he was an 11B.
Sounds like the Siddall guy is not as good a researcher as he thinks.

Response by SGT Randy Bordner made Jun 17 at 2018 9:08 PM

SGT Randy Bordner — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 21:08:03 -0400

The man was Airborne infantry and served in 3 wars; I give him the honor he deserves. I agree with the other comments, paperwork mistakes are not uncommon and I believe a man that served so honorably for so many years deserves not to have his integrity disparaged.

Response by CPT Ronald Scherick made Jun 27 at 2018 11:25 AM

CPT Ronald Scherick — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:25:59 -0400

If a mistake was made I would bet it was made by DOD not the CSM. He had enough verified awards that a few more would not make a difference. Give him the benifit of the doubt.

Response by SGT Joseph Miller made Jan 28 at 2019 5:19 AM

SGT Joseph Miller — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:19:30 -0500

This POS tries to sully a man's reputation after he's dead so he can no longer defend himself and he even stated he was looking into this for a long time but waited until SGM Plumley died and couldn't defend himself. Personally I would like to know how he investigated this so thoroughly when the national personnel records center lost 80% of US Army personnel records of soldiers discharged between 1912 - 1960 in a fire. How can you do a thorough investigation when records were destroyed. The Army HRC investigated and declined to charge anything as they even know they can't fairly investigate this. This POS mother F@$ker just wants to get his 15 minutes of fame by destroying the reputation of an American Hero and anybody who supports what he's doing is no better.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Jul 14 at 2019 8:25 PM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:25:11 -0400

He's dead, let it ride.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2020 4:34 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 04:34:49 -0500

Let him RIP I say. I highly doubt it was intentional if he did. He had enough credibility already. Forged in fire.

Response by SFC James Welch made Sep 29 at 2020 4:01 PM

SFC James Welch — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 16:01:04 -0400

Response by SGT David Johns made Jul 7 at 2021 3:29 AM

SGT David Johns — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 03:29:08 -0400

Allegations made by a disgruntled keyboard warrior let the man rest in peace

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jul 7 at 2021 10:21 AM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:21:47 -0400

DD-214 is not the be all end all reference. I remember when I left AD with the horny horses. Went to regiment S-1 shop and sat down with a PFC clerk typist, and he says what do I put on the 214? I tried to remember all the stuff, but failed. It took 40 years and 3 DD-215s to get it reasonably right.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jul 7 at 2021 11:24 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:24:36 -0400

Obviously spent too much time too close to a typewriter

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2021 2:57 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:57:27 -0400

Speaking as someone who entered the military in 1973, prior to the digital age, it was common that you could receive awards that were not well documented.
Orders for awards should be received timely, but in times of war such as WW2, the Korean War, and Vietnam, many were not received until after the war was over. It was up to company clerks to add the information to your files, this didn't happen in many cases.
When I retired from the reserves, my last DD 214 (and profile picture) didn't reflect an MSM, 2 ARCOMS, 3 AAMs, and 5-6 service and unit awards.
It is difficult to tell at this time if the above happened to CSM Plumley or he was mistaken about receiving some awards. I find it difficult to believe he inflated his awards. Even without the disputed awards, he had an impressive career.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Jul 7 at 2021 6:41 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:41:25 -0400

I would say at this point whether he was or was not awarded every award he had is between him and St Michael and God Almighty. I hope i he did not lie but I will never meet the man and will say it is verifiable he has done much more than most.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 2 at 2022 11:28 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Sat, 02 Apr 2022 23:28:28 -0400

Wow imagine that? We all know the army never makes mistakes or loses documentation. Quit being a BF and leave the man alone. I was shot in Iraq and my own unit didn’t have a f…g clue because I was attached to another unit.