Did RI bias cause all female Ranger students to fail?

COL Jon Thompson — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:13:12 -0400

This Stars and Stripes article raises some questions about the first class of female Ranger students. One of the article's sources says that it was not peer evals that caused them to recycle but the fact they failed two patrols. This shifts the focus back to the RIs and alludes that "There's the sense that no RI really wants to be the first one to pass a woman," one of the sources said. Were the women given a fair chance? Do you think this will cause the Army to look at grading and force a solely objective score? Let me know.

http://www.stripes.com/news/army/ranger-school-creates-admiration-frustration-in-assessment-of-women-1.353934

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 24 at 2015 1:16 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:16:04 -0400

Considering that the RIs were being observed at all times by female observers to ensure that this didn't occur, I highly doubt it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 1:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:21:11 -0400

Again another ridiculous assumption. RIs are professional and don't care who you are in their grading. There are simple performance measures in the Ranger handbook that need to be met, if you fail to do it, you don't pass, simple.

Has nothing to do with sex, age, rank, or even MOS.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jun 24 at 2015 1:25 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:25:18 -0400

This is not an unexpected outcome or situation. Of course there will be those who claim unfair treatment was the cause of the failure of the females. Some of these would be the first to defend unfair treatment of females if the tables were turned and the standards reduced for them in order to allow them to succeed.

I hope this was not the case and that females are given the exact same unbiased evaluations, from both fellow students and instructors, as the male students get. Being a realist, however, I am sure that there were some who skewed their peer ratings based solely on the gender of the person being rated. If that occurred, it is unfortunate and unfair to the females.

Any woman who meets the standards deserves the Tab and deserves an unbiased, honest evaluation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 1:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:33:05 -0400

I guarantee before the females showed up, all the RI's were briefed on what would be acceptable grading standards and then reminded that their grading sheets would likely be questioned and reviewed all the way at the Pentagon.
Articles like this where they name "someone close to the grading process" really go against good journalist standards. I worked there three years ago, you could cite me as being "close to" the process but that wouldn't make any of my insight news.
As for saying a disproportionate number of failures were associated with the females, we'll it happens. My Florida phase class failed so many people that we had an entire platoon of recycles, 15-20% of the entire class.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 24 at 2015 1:34 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:34:02 -0400

It is far more likely that all candidates were held to an "exact" standard and there was no tolerance given in any regards along the way.

If an "event" occurred that justified a "point" be deducted, the point got dropped. Drop enough points, and the the phase was failed at the instructor level.

Failing a test doesn't make the grader wrong or right in the equation as long as they are grading all the tests equally and exactly as the standard is written. It is far more likely that since this was the first test that included females that any Subjectiveness in grading was removed. The RIs may have previously had a deviance of +/-0.5% (minuscule), and it was eliminated. There was no "close enough," as everyone involved wanted the outcome of this to be what it was 'with the complete elimination of argument.'

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 1:47 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:47:16 -0400

That would be an interesting allegation to prove as fact. RI reports of GO patrols are easy to submit, NO-GO patrol reports are closely reviewed and validated by the chain of command before a Ranger Student is either recycled or dropped. I have no doubt every patrol walker and observer was clearly briefed to ensure bias was minimized as much as possible to enable all Ranger Students to compete against the standards.

Response by LTC Barry Hull made Jun 24 at 2015 2:06 PM

LTC Barry Hull — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:06:19 -0400

Did anyone NOT see that coming?

Response by MAJ Sitz Randy made Jun 24 at 2015 2:39 PM

MAJ Sitz Randy — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:39:52 -0400

Highly doubt it!! Why can't they have just failed?? Why must we assume it is someone's fault other than their own??

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 8:15 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 08:15:34 -0400

It is a shame that a report like this comes out. When are people going to look at the actual facts? The fact is they failed to meet the standard for Ranger School much like many of the men who failed. Why doesn't Stars and Stripes investigate every Physical Fitness test, Expert Field Medical Badge competition, Sapper School, SF Selection, etc for grader bias?
IMO, a woman or women will pass Ranger School. They passed the PT test, when men failed, They passed the Darby Queen, when men failed. They will pass but they shouldn't just get the tab to be trailblazers. If that happens, then what value is the Ranger tab? Women pass Sapper School and have Sapper badges, where is the coverage on that?
Let these professionals do their job instead of trying to label them as Sexist Good Ol Boy Tab protectors. They are charged, much like every other NCO and Officer to uphold standards. We should applaud them for upholding the standards knowing there would be media backlash not question their integrity.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 1:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:59:23 -0400

Darby's recycle rate is 15%- unless you are a female, in which case it is 100%. It makes perfect sense that individuals who have the cognitive capacity to graduate West Point and pilot Apaches can not pass a single squad level patrol.

It is completely apparent that the vast majority of males associated with the military completely support the female Ranger pilot program, as it is obviously a noble aspiration to strive for the highest standards of military leadership, tactical acumen, physical fitness, and intestinal fortitude, regardless of your gender. I am certain the RIs are even more supportive of the concept of female Ranger-qualified Soldiers, as their masculinity is not tied up in any way with the Ranger tab. And I have some swampland in Florida to sell you...

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Jun 25 at 2015 3:44 PM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:44:40 -0400

The 3 day 1's completed the road march today so we'll hopefully see how they do on patrols after completing their second RAP week. Their eight week train up may have done them a disservice by being to PT driven and not enough about the principles of patrolling. Regardless, by your third time through Darby you should have a pretty good handle on leading a squad sized element. I wish them well!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 25 at 2015 6:34 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:34:28 -0400

The men had significant advantage in the patrols.