Did you hear about the Barista's Decision to Enforce a Policy Goes Viral?

2015-09-15T09:18:03-04:00

Did you hear about the Barista's Decision to Enforce a Policy Goes Viral?

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/baristas-decision-enforce-policy-goes-viral-frank-eliason?trk=pulse-det-nav_art

I don't normally post these type of discussions, but this speaks to the lack of respect this country has for our law enforcement personnel and a generation that is growing up very disrespectful in my opinion. I don't drink Starbucks either!

RP Members could this employee have made an exception or was she right in the way she handled this? How could it have been handled? Your thoughts?

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Sep 15 at 2015 9:28 AM

2015-09-15T09:28:08-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Some people just don't get it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 9:40 AM

2015-09-15T09:40:56-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I had not heard about this. I believe there is a lack of respect for authority in general. As long as the policy is being applied to all equally then there isn't an argument. If it is being applied against Officers only then there is an issue. Keep in mind there are also rumors that are started that become Urban folklore truths.
https://news.starbucks.com/views/myths-facts-military-donations

Starbucks Support of the Troops/Military

On behalf of Starbucks more than 200,000 dedicated partners (employees), we want to set the record straight on an old rumor concerning our company’s lack of support for the military and our troops. This rumor, dating back to 2004, claims a lack of Starbucks support for the U.S. Marines, and has evolved to include a lack of support for the British Royal Marines. In both instances, the rumor is not, and has never been, true.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 15 at 2015 10:13 AM

2015-09-15T10:13:11-04:00

I could spend hours on this article. Hours. The real question is where to start.

First, let's look at the Company Policy of allowing restroom usage to Paying Customers only. Honestly, that's fairly reasonable. They are a business, and the restrooms are investment, and their employees do have to clean them.

Second, following that is the person (nameless at this point) asking for an exception to said policy. We talk about "maintaining the standard" a lot on this forum. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept, is the mantra.

Now, should the standard change based on additional factors? Well, of course there is going to be grey area. We're not robots. However, human judgement about what is reasonable deviation from the standard is the issue. Should a cop get to use the restroom even if he's not paying? What about a pregnant woman? What about a toddler? What about a homeless man? A great phrase I picked up was the "Parade of horribles" (Shameless Plug, RP Podcast Club: Reasonable Doubt) which coincides with my longstanding debate tactic of "Take the argument to the Absurd. If if can't survive absurdity, it isn't a good argument.

That's really what is at play here. Does the virtue of being a cop, justify an exception or deviation from written policy?

But let's shift gears for a second.

What about how it was handled? The Barrista aka Coffee Girl, because let's call a duck a duck, called the non-paying customer out on his request, in what could arguably be a blunt and impolite manner, citing company policy (or what we would call Regulation). Sure it lacked Tact, but it wasn't "technically" wrong. She was "holding the line." She was "protecting the tab/badge" so to speak (oh I know I'm gonna piss people off with that metaphor).

Now, why would she do that?

Perhaps... just perhaps, the uniform or those wearing it have not been self-policing (no pun intended) enough, and have become viewed less as members of the community, less as Sheep-Dogs, and more as Wolves. When our "Protectors" are viewed (perception is reality) in a Predatory light, which is becoming more and more common with the Police, the little courtesies... the little allowances... go away.

I'm not saying it's right. It isn't... but it is understandable. Rather than being "one of us" the police are turning into "them" and "them" don't get favors. They don't get courtesy.

Edit: Spelling

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 15 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-09-15T10:18:14-04:00

Never Good PR telling a Cop he can't Cop a Squat without buying something.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Sep 15 at 2015 10:28 AM

2015-09-15T10:28:27-04:00

She was wrong for handling it that way. We ran into the same issue in downtown Oakland at a Subway Restaurant. We were in full tac gear, she had nobody in the store. "Paying customers only". High crime area, people hate the police. It is what it is.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Sep 15 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-09-15T10:43:21-04:00

This may be a very unpopular statement but, I do somewhat see a sense of entitlement with this officer. Generally businesses only extend the use of the restroom to a paying customer, an officer should know that. Now, don't get me wrong, I do support police officers, but that doesn't give them the right to be served differently than any other citizen.

Growing up in the city, often do I see customers (including law enforcement) being denied to use the restroom because they are not a paying customer (me included). What does bother me is that it's not being enforced equally, sometimes the rep will be selective on who and who isn't allowed to use the restrooms.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 15 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-09-15T10:44:04-04:00

There are other places for us to do business that respect the police.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 15 at 2015 10:57 AM

2015-09-15T10:57:15-04:00

I enjoy coffee very much COL Mikel J. Burroughs; but, I stopped getting coffee from Starbucks many years ago. The company tends to support very liberal causes which is their right and took my business elsewhere.
She may have been correct in her understanding of Starbucks typical intercity policy. However loudly announcing that non-paying customers can not use the bathroom repeatedly was uncalled for.
I am not surprised at the attitude of the barista in the Philadelphia Starbucks. She seems to be somebody who would have been protesting with the Occupy movement and other movements that bite the hands that protect them.

Response by CPT Griff Tatum made Sep 15 at 2015 11:32 AM

2015-09-15T11:32:08-04:00

I would have expected to hear the same story, same scenario if a civilian did it: entering this Starbucks from a Home Depot or something like that. If cops are afraid of being disrespected then maybe they should look over why they are a cop again. People aren't required to respect anyone. If she wants to disrespect a cop, then that's fine, but why this goes viral is beyond me. That cop is a person just like you and I, and why people think we should offer respect based on a job instead of just good conduct blows my mind. Now, would I respect a cop? Sure. Because of the uniform, no. Because he is a human. So really there are two issues here. One, the cop had to use the bathroom, two, disrespect. As a leader, I wouldn't waste too much time trying to figure this one out. It's a small issue. People need to wake up and realize that this is the real world and if a Cop cant pee at a Starbucks, the world will keep turning. The cop probably wasn't too mad about it. He probably was polite and left in good terms and found another place to go to the bathroom. Some bystander was probably the one that was crying on the inside because people aren't as nice in real life as they are in movies. Well I'm sorry America, but this isn't Andy Griffith, this is real life.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Sep 15 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-09-15T11:36:28-04:00

What happened to the days where LEOs would go up to a cashier to pay for a cup of coffee and they would be told that coffee is free for 1st responders? The US has gotten to the point where they treat LEOs as the enemy. Yes there are some bad apples in the profession but which profession doesn't have there share of turds? I know that we as LEOs have to be setting the example and do what is right. But when there are calls to kill LEOs and others just treat them like crap is just criminal.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 15 at 2015 11:37 AM

2015-09-15T11:37:41-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - While she may have been "technically correct", she chose to make an exhibition out of it, which took away any support I would have for her position. The officer asked to use the bathroom. All she had to do was say, in a respectful/polite manner, that it was for paying customers only. When she decided to shout and make a spectacle of herself, she lost the benefit of the doubt and support of any clear-thinking people.

When I was a young Captain at Ft Benning, assigned as Military Police Operations Officer, but working as the Military Police Duty Officer one Saturday night, the Desk Sergeant told me that an on-duty MP had called in and stated that he had been refused entry into an enlisted club on post by a bouncer. He stated that he had simply stopped there to go to the latrine and so advised the bouncer, who refused his entry to the club. The MP departed and, since the club was the only public facility open at that time in his patrol area, relieved himself outside (out of the public view).

I went to the club and asked to see the manager to discuss the incident. The manager supported his bouncer and stated "we don't allow MPs in the club unless we call them". I told the manager that Military Police on duty are authorized to enter any building, facility or establishment, to include off-limits establishments. I further informed him that it was our policy for uniformed MPs to not enter clubs, unless called, however, they could not be denied entry. He argued with me and stated he would not change his policy. In his presence, I called the MP Desk Sergeant and told him that I wanted a uniformed MP Patrol to conduct a walk-thru of the club every hour until the establishment closed and that anybody who refused entry of the MPs would be apprehended for interfering with the duties of the Military Police. I left after warning the manager not to test me.

The MPs walked through the club every hour that night with no incident. On Monday, the Installation Club Officer (or something like that) called me to discuss the issue. I explained what had happened and told him that I was just making a point. I advised him that I had reinstated the policy of no uniformed MPs in the clubs and it would remain so, unless we had another incident. He agreed to inform his managers that MPs could enter the clubs and we had no further incidents. I would be less than truthful if I did not state that I did have the MPs test that, infrequently, never to experience a refusal of entry again.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Sep 15 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-09-15T12:10:07-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I understand a business not wanting to have their restrooms used by non paying customers. They have to pay an employee or service to maintain that bathroom, and have the right to reserve its use for customers. That being said, there is more than one way to be a paying customer. If I ran a business, I would want a good relationship with all emergency services. If a police officer needs to use the restroom, paying or not, let them. Why? Simple, a police officer being seen in your place of business whether that be apprehending a criminal, buying a meal, or simply using the head is still a visible presence. Petty criminals look for targets of opportunity. A uniformed police officer in my place of business makes it less of a target.

I have taken exactly one semester of economics. We discussed something called opportunity cost. It revolves around the intangibles. Things like keeping outdated and under sold items on the shelf. I would classify this as one of those intangibles. Starbucks now has the bad publicity (earned or not), and the stigma (at that store at least) of being belligerent to the police. There are many places that will go out of their way to extend courtesies to veterans, active duty military, police, EMS, Fire, and other first responders. They do this because it shows a respect for the service that they provide. I personally would have extended it to include allowing uniformed military/first responders to use the head without making a purchase.

I personally do not care for Starbucks. Their coffee sucks. I would rather use my keurig machine or go to to Dunkin Donuts for coffee than have starbucks. I have also found that many of the workers at Starbucks are snobbish. I find it humorous that someone who is pouring coffee for a living is looking down their nose at me. I do use them occasionally, but only if I have no other choice. I would say boycott Starbucks. Not because of this, but because they have overpriced inferior coffee.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Sep 15 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-09-15T12:42:04-04:00

There is the letter of a policy and there is a spirit of a policy. She clearly is not smart enough to know the difference or she knows the difference and chose to try to embarrass the cop.

I wish I would have been in line. I would have said, yes, he is with me and she would have needed to let him in. Then I would have taken the cup of coffee I bought for him and dumped it on the counter and floor with a big "ooppsie" for her to clean up with a wry smile on my face.

You want to play games, I can play games.

Response by SGT William Howell made Sep 15 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-09-15T13:00:51-04:00

I never buy coffee at Starbucks. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of Joe. I just don't understand how hipsters can afford to do it when they spend all their money on skinny jeans, deep vee tee shirts and tattoo sleves. Karma is bitch.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 15 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-09-15T13:10:28-04:00

I understand the concept/policy of business only letting PAID CUSTOMERS access to their restrooms....however I think they should give public servants i.e., cops/firefighters/EMS use of their restrooms.
The woman, although Pregnant, should not have made a scene.
My mom, Aunt and I went to NYC and DC last August through September. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to find a restroom. We soon figured out to go into Starbucks...which there seemed to be one on every other corner.....The line to the restroom in Starbucks were long...no matter what time of day or night....There were signs up everywhere "Restrooms for Paying customers ONLY"........so one of us would get in line to purchase something while the other two would get in line at the restroom. In most of the Starbucks, the employees were so busy they were not paying attention to whether or not the person in line for the restroom had made a purchase or not....but just in case, we always made sure to purchase something. It's CRAZY!
If there wasn't a Starbucks, then we'd duck into a coffee shop or restaurant, but we always felt eyes were watching us so we would always purchase something first before using the restroom.
What ever happened to Public Restrooms?...or just common courtesy of establishments to let someone use their facility?

Response by COL Ted Mc made Sep 15 at 2015 1:11 PM

2015-09-15T13:11:06-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mikel; Technically the decision was correct.

The execution was poor, staff selection was bad, the level of instruction provided to the worker was even worse.

Would there be the same furor over "Policeman Demands That Company Change Policy To Suit Him."?

Unfortunately "Good help is hard to find these days".

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Sep 15 at 2015 1:55 PM

2015-09-15T13:55:37-04:00

I liked how the author of the article sidestepped any sort of opinion on who was right and rather addressed the issue of training employees about the "why" of a policy and empowering them to make judgments that may not be in support of the policy.

Response by PO3 Earl F. McCartney 111 made Sep 15 at 2015 1:59 PM

2015-09-15T13:59:47-04:00

it's sad the way today's youth in our country is turning out to be so rude and disrespectful to people. Especially our law enforcement officers, military and veterans. I was raised to respect everybody and especially authority figures like law enforcement.

Response by SSG Roderick Smith made Sep 15 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-09-15T14:00:51-04:00

As a career LEO, I'm tired of officers expecting courtesies and handouts. If it was a store policy, than that's that! Rules are rules! Become a paying customer, or go find somewhere else to pee. There is a serious lack of professionalism in the profession right now. Officers are letting the scumbags of America get under their skin, and coming off looking foolish for it. I could go on and on about how I feel about the #bluelivesmatter stuff... but I'll be here all night giving myself high blood pressure. Being a civil servant, especially a police officer, doesn't guarantee or promise a hero's treatment. Get off your high horse. Worry less about the BS and what you think you are OWED, and focus more on training, community relations, and the proper execution of your duties.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-09-15T21:27:51-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, I don't drink coffee at or from Starbucks. I sure won't patronize any of them now. We have one at our VA hospital in Houston.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 15 at 2015 10:44 PM

2015-09-15T22:44:02-04:00

stupid minimum wage employees

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 16 at 2015 9:10 AM

2015-09-16T09:10:36-04:00

My biggest problem with this whole thing is that it doesn’t appear that the police officer involved is a very good civil servant. He also seems really silly to trash an organization that pays taxes in your city, and thus pays your salary for enforcing a rule that they would’ve enforced on anybody else have they walked through the door. I also like that on top of all of it he decided to go ahead and insult the rest of the residents or taxpayers as he was walking out acting like one of them should have dumped out their coffee and offered him their cup. I guess a prudent civil servant who felt like he had been wronged and sat down and written a tasteful, and tactful letter to the manager, or the corporate headquarters explaining the situation, and also may be explaining that he walks a beat that doesn’t have a public restroom on it, he really depends on the generosity of Starbucks in the situation, and he often does buy coffee there he just wasn’t doing it this time he just needed to use the bathroom. I would bet a lot of money that situation would’ve been sorted out, but if that Starbucks loses a lot of business this can be hard feelings towards the police officers, who have already shown the day of hard feelings toward Starbucks.

Overall I can’t stand people who throw little pity parties for themselves. You also never know, maybe the woman was having a terrible day, or maybe she just talked to five different people who tried to use the bathroom to take a sink shower before they caught their connecting bus without buying anything, she did want to hear from anybody else that she allowed a police officer, but she doesn’t allow other people.

Response by SFC Nikhil Kumra made Sep 16 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-09-16T15:40:30-04:00

Her approach was probably awful, and she was likely a complete bitch about it. HOWEVER... And this is going to be VERY unpopular I think....

Nobody.. Nobody, in a police uniform, military uniform, ANY uniform, should EVER expect to be allowed to be given any kind (even the smallest) special treatment for who they are or what they do for a living.

We see it in the city all the time, an officer will go into a store, grab a cup of coffee, and not pay for it - most of the time this is FINE, and it is arranged between store owner and officer - But if the owner does not want this kind of arrangement (and it is fully their right, as good or bad as we may think it is), that should not determine whether the store gets the same protection as other businesses in the area, or gets visited at or not. I'm sorry, but that's the reality of it, all feelings aside. It sucks, it's mean, it's not what I would do... BUT... It is what our country is founded on - freedom of oppression... and the expectation of special treatment, with any kind reprisal, even if that reprisal is not caring as much at one location over another IS oppression.

Granted, this girl was probably an idiot about it....

Just as I want everyone else to do their job, I just want police to do their job. I just want service members to do their job. I don't want any special acknowledgement, and I don't want to give any special favor to anyone. Your paid to serve and protect, serve and protect, and if the bathroom is for paying customers only in a busy urban environment, then abide by it! Plain and simple...

If you wear a uniform, at the end of the day, you did volunteer to wear it, nobody forced you, and 2) you're likely getting a paycheck and benefits, which are MORE THAN AMPLE most times if you're not blowing your money and living within your means...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 4:02 PM

2015-09-16T16:02:12-04:00

I would've made the exception. Sounded like she was either very immature or ... Well... That's about it. The Time of our Lives

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Sep 17 at 2015 8:08 PM

2015-09-17T20:08:46-04:00

If that is truly the policy, then I cant fault her on technical reasons. She is just following the rules.

However, its a stupid business practice. Any sane business owner doesn't want to anger the police, fire, and any public agency that they rely on. Most businesses cater to the police because it makes good business sense. The more cops around, the less crooks you have around. I would like to hear from the management of that particular Starbucks how they feel about their employees response, before I pass judgement on an entire corporation.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 18 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-09-18T13:06:57-04:00

First I heard of this but while I do understand the policy is geared towards keeping the homeless from abusing the bathrooms and leaving them a gross mess I would think that if a police officer asked politely, or anyone for that matter, then let them use it its no big deal, or shouldn't be.
In my opinion I think that this barista is just another of todays young, disrespectful, and socially challenged people who think that because on Twiter, Facebook, Skout and many other sites they can talk all loud and ignorant that they can do it to real people.
The barista lacks self respect, at least in my opinion, and therefore has no respect for others.
Oh and I know lots of Starbucks that gives free coffee to police officers.

Response by Capt David Bays made May 11 at 2018 12:33 PM

2018-05-11T12:33:08-04:00

In addition to being an idiot, the barista had little to no situational awareness. Back in the day, I worked at Winchell's Donuts in a bad part of town near campus; often the night shift. I wanted police in the store. I did not want them to ever leave the store. I knew I was safer when they were in the store. They got refills on coffee and free donuts, even though free donuts were against company policy and department policy. While I never offered them "free donuts," I would ask them if, as a favor to me, they could try a couple and let me know how they are. And to be honest, it was not out of a sense of honor or respect. It was simply a matter of self preservation.