Did you know that Iraqi troops gunning for Ramadi outnumber ISIS 10 to 1?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:47:46 -0500

Did you know that Iraqi troops gunning for Ramadi outnumber ISIS 10 to 1?

Have the Iraqi's had enough and will they get their country back? Is the training we provided starting to pay off?

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/11/27/no-american-ground-troops-fighting-ramadi-islamic-state/76443524/

Iraqi troops closing in on Ramadi outnumber Islamic State militants by as many as 10 to one, a U.S. official told Military Times on Friday.

The offensive to wrest back control of the city involves between 8,000 and 10,000 Iraqi security forces, said Army Col. Steve Warren, a spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition overseeing the fight against the Islamic State group.

No American military personnel are on the ground fighting alongside them, he said.

Three U.S.-trained Iraqi brigades are participating in the operation, Warren said. They face between 600 and 1,000 well-entrenched Islamic State fighters.

American and coalition warplanes have conducted airstrikes in and around Ramadi since the summer, aiming to weaken the militants' grip ahead of the highly anticipated ground operation that began Wednesday.

"We believe the Iraqis will finish soon," Warren said, adding that Iraq's government has a "detailed plan to use tribal fighters, federal police and local police for stabilization" once the city is cleared.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2015 9:56 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:56:38 -0500

Well using Powell doctrine, which the US Army still uses, they'd need to be at least 3 to 1 to take on an enemy in the defense, and well dug in is more like 4.5 to 1. In urban is like 6 to 1. So that pretty close. Don't fool yourselves, the US Army would try for similar numbers.

Response by LTC Michael Hrycak made Nov 28 at 2015 10:06 AM

LTC Michael Hrycak — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:06:33 -0500

I was lucky to have been serving in Iraq from March, 2006, through March, 2007. I ran into my friend and colleague, LTC (then) Anthony Deane, who was serving as a Battalion Commander for COL (then) Sean MacFarland, his BCT commander. They were part of a Call Forward Force (CFF) in Kuwait when I was coming through and getting ready to cross the berm into the ITO (Iraqi Theater of Operations). I remember Tony had a map in his office, and TOC of Ramadi, and An Anbar Province. It was not a surprise that about the time we crossed the berm into the ITO, their CFF was called forward, and while we operated in Najaf Province, they went into An Anbar Province. Tony and COL Mac Farland took control of their Area of Operation (AO) and turned the situation around, so that when they were redeploying 6-7 months later, GEN Petraeus visited their AO when he was taking command of MNF-I (Multi National Force - Iraq). Today, we have LTG MacFarland back in charge of ITO and I have every reason to believe that the answer to COL Mike Burroughs question is yes, I think the training of the Iraqi Security Forces will payoff, and they will be able to retake Ramadi, because General MacFarland has accomplished it back in 2006 and I know that he can do it again. I would encourage reading Jim Michael's book recounting Tony and General MacFarland's successful campaign, it will warm your Warrior heart! Incidentally, Colonel (Retired) Tony Deane in his office as the BC - a true Warrior!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2015 10:36 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:36:06 -0500

The question is even though they outnumber them do they have the mentality and fortitude to defeat them?

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Nov 28 at 2015 10:46 AM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:46:39 -0500

They may be out numbered, but will all of the Iraqi's really stand up and fight...after all many of them turned and ran a few years back.

I sure hope they have finally had enough, gotten their act together and go after them....but I suppose they'll have to fight as dirty as ISIS fights.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2015 12:55 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 12:55:07 -0500

I know they outnumbered ISIS 10 to 1 when ISIS took the city in the first place...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2015 3:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:47:31 -0500

Iraqi soldiers problem is that they don't put country first. Everything comes before their country. Religion and their sect. That's why they run so easy. They don't believe in what they are fighting for. That's why they was ran out the first time.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 28 at 2015 3:52 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:52:55 -0500

The question I have is are they lions ready to fight or tepid water destined to recede when time comes.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Nov 28 at 2015 5:40 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 17:40:27 -0500

Actually COL Mikel J. Burroughs I suspect the accuracy of counting ISIS members is akin to estimating the number of illegal aliens in this nation.
Hopefully there are significantly fewer ISIS members worldwide than there are illegal aliens in this nation.
In any event I hope the Iraqi troops stick together and are successful in removing ISIS from Ramadi and its environs very soon. I hope that whatever form of government services moves in afterwards is relatively free of corruption and improves life for the people of ramadi as they return to what is left of their city after it has been cleared of mines and boobytraps.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Nov 28 at 2015 7:07 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:07:45 -0500

The little I know about them comes from talking to the troops and Sr NCOS that I have had the privilege and honor of working with after they came back. The one thing that they have all said is that the Iraqi and Afghani leadership could be vastly improved.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Nov 29 at 2015 3:01 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 15:01:09 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mikel; Let's put it this way. The Iraqis had better not be beaten by the ISISites or else the Iraqi government will have lost all credibility and so will the entire country of Iraq.

The consequences of that aren't difficult to foresee.

Response by CSM Peter Collins made Nov 30 at 2015 12:32 PM

CSM Peter Collins — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:32:14 -0500

I haven't been following closely. Is the Iraqi Army still primarily Shia? Al Anbar is heavily Sunni. You can never overestimate sectarian/tribal issues when planning an op of this scale.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Nov 30 at 2015 5:28 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:28:36 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner. To answer your question Colonel Burroughs, yes. In fact if you have been following the latest Pentagon press briefings by Peter Cook, who stretches the truth sometime that there are no longer any iraqi troops involved in the attempt to retake Ramadi. The troops involved are Iranian militia and according to Sec. of Def. Ash Carter the US is not flying any air support for the Iranian troops. The the next post is from Central Command with the list of air strikes for the day and there is Ramadi listed along with Mosul, Sinji and other iraqi cities that the Iranian militias are fighting in. Clearly either the Pentagon Briefer is dissimulating false in formation or Central Command is.