Differences between our military and our allies

SPC David Wyckoff — Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:05:57 -0400

What differences have you encountered in working with the military members of other countries?

We were on a convoy moving forward and getting into position for the ground war kick off. We leave a fuel point and stage up in the desert north of the point. While waiting in line the five ton tractor/trailer I'm driving (one of the old WWII types) just goes dead. Before I can even get out the truck, convoy starts moving. Sgt in the vehicle behind me tells me that he will inform the 1st LT leading that we are down and send back help. So we two Pvts hunker down to wait. Never leave an Army vehicle unmanned, right?

Next morning still no one arrives. But we are hailed by some British soldiers. Come to find out there is a British Trans Regiment just over the dune. They come and tow inside their wire and find us places to rack out and we are assigned a sponsor.

First morning there I was summoned by the Regimental SGM to brief him on our problem. Mind you I was a PFC and my buddy was a Pv2. I brush myself off as best I can and try to get the grime and wrinkles out of my uniform. I approach, knock, wait. He calls to enter. I enter and report as best I know how. The briefing is fairly short and all the while I'm speaking to the RSGM I am calling him Sergeant Major. Yes SGM, No SGM. Will do, SGM. The young LCpl that is escorting me looks like he is going to puke.

When we are dismissed, I come to attention, about face and exit purposefully.

When we get outside the LCpl and I discuss at length military courtesy and customs.

So I learned. When reporting to the RSGM, you salute and report just as if they were an officer. You call them Sir or Maam and NEVER call them by their rank. When dismissed, you also salute.

I was later approached by the SGM in the chow tent and he asked me how I was being treated and if I was being well taken care of. I took that moment to apologize for my lack of understanding of the British customs and courtesies, ensuring that the LCpl got full credit for schooling me. It was an interesting three weeks I spent with that unit.

The day our unit came to get us was the day that the British unit was jumping forward. Had our unit not arrived, per the SGM orders, we were to be packed up and riding with our sponsors. We would remain with them until the next US unit could be found.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Mar 12 at 2014 3:28 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:28:38 -0400

That is a very interesting story.  It is amazing to see the differences in how militaries of different nations interact not only with us, but within their own ranks.  I am stationed in SHAPE Belgium and I regularly interact with military members of different nations, both enlisted and officers.  It has been a great learning experience.  Just like you learned customs and courtesies from the LCpl, I make it a point to ask when I interact with allies.  It never hurts to ask and it is often a great ice-breaker and it shows that you are interested in how they do business and that is never a bad thing.

Response by CSM Christopher Irwin made Mar 14 at 2014 5:40 AM

CSM Christopher Irwin — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 05:40:48 -0400

Dave,

You handled yourself perfectly and I'm sure the Regimental SGM appreciated your "failed" attempt at military courtesy. Any senior leader worth their salt recognizes the difference between open contempt and disrespect versus even an incorrect form of professionalism.

In my years I have dealt with Soldiers from Australia, Canada, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, the United Kingdom, etc....etc....etc.... Each nation has slightly different expectations regarding their lower enlisted Soldier's interactions with both NCOs (Warrant Officers in some countries) and officers.

I have never begrudged them their attempts at respect. It sounds to me like the LCPL aided you well regarding their customs and courtesies and the Regimental SGM appreciated your attempt.

In any event, I always love to hear about our interactions with our allies.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 9:54 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:54:51 -0400

Just stumbling on this post and it is quite relevant to me. I work with a NATO unit in Germany comprised of 16 nations, so we see great variety of differences ranging from customs & courtesies to basic rules and requirements.

Most European services do not suffer an "up or out" promotion mentality. In many cases you will see career O-3s or E-5 to E-7s. Promotions also tend to only take place when you move or upgrade into a position requiring a higher rank, thus keeping LTs for 2-10 years for example. It is also not unheard of for you to demote but not in a negative, just moving down to a lower tiered position at a new base or unit.

Most of these countries also run their military under contracts, some longer and some shorter term, where individuals can choose to stay or not afterward, but regardless the retirement age is treated much like any other job (not just 20 years minimum but in many cases not retiring until 55 or as old as 65 in some cases).

Another of the largest differences is longevity at an assignment. Where we are moved every 3-5 years (or less sometimes), I work with people who have held their position for 20+ years! Imagine not having to move and uproot so often?

General dress and appearance varies also. I can appreciate a man with a full beard, still well-groomed, or a female with a ponytail hanging down while in uniform. The US has some exceptionally stringent standards by comparison.

Now, granted many of these nations are physically tiny compared to the US and have a much smaller military, but they definitely have some different perspectives.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 10:23 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:23:15 -0400

Great story!

When I was in northwest Afghanistan, my platoon was spending a week at an airbase called Camp Arena. We were the only US unit on the base. The base was occupied by Spainish and Italian forces. Talk about cushy! They had sidewalks, hard buildings, and cafés that looked better than Tim Hortons, stateside!

Anyway, we had a couple nights of R&R after a long mission so we wandered over to the Spanish section. We made friends with a couple Spanish Infantryman and communicated the best we could with broken Spanish/English. Turns out they were an Airborne unit like us and had a special tent that served as an Airborne Memorial. Turns out, the inside of the tent was a bar, frequented nightly by the Spaniards. It sure was nice to have a beer after that extremely long mission. The Spanish and us exchanged patches and we went on our way. great guys.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 18 at 2014 11:06 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:06:34 -0400

Great story! nice to see our allies have the good sense to know that we don't know all their customs & courtesies. Hell we barely understand rank among our own branches. When I was in Somalia we had contingents of every country imaginable camped all over the place like a who's who of the UN. So we didn't know whether we saluting privates or what, especially since so many countries have stars in their rank. We had this one unit, I believe they were from Tunisia, and every week they had a different goat chained in the front of their HQ. We finally figured out that every Friday they had a goat roast, then brought in a new one to replace the one they just ate.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 1:04 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 13:04:27 -0400

Are our Allies spending enough on defense? Will we always have to be the policemen of the world?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/22/pentagon-chief-carter-europe-not-doing-enough-on-defense/?intcmp=latestnews

Pentagon chief Carter: Europe 'not doing enough' on defense

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 11 at 2020 12:53 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:53:59 -0500

I did some training with Kuwaiti soldiers. The boy scouts are better than them.