Different punishments for different ranks of the same crime. Should this be an EO violation?

SSG Robert Burns — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 14:16:37 -0500

I thought about this when reading this post.  https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/39536-does-this-upset-anyone<div><br></div><div>Say you changed the rank to race.  For example all enlisted automatically chaptered out for any sexual assault crimes past, present, future.  Officers get to stay for the same thing.</div><div>Now change that to all hispanics automatically chaptered out, and all whites get to stay.  That would be a no questions ask, someone is going to jail EO complaint.  Why is it any different for ranks?  It is still the exact same discrimination and it is despicable.</div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="https://www.rallypoint.com/assets/fb_share_logo.png"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/39536-does-this-upset-anyone">Does this upset anyone?</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">We recently implemented a new policy in which we automatically chapter from the Army&nbsp;any enlisted Soldier that is a convicted sex offender, regardless of when it took place.&nbsp; Two months afte...</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 3:47 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 15:47:13 -0500

In the first place, because rank is not a protected class, there is no way to charge EO violation based discrimination by rank.  Race is a protected class.<div><br></div><div>In the second place, because rank confers coercive authority and ability to issue rewards for cooperative behavior and punishments for reporting, our officers should be held to a higher standard of behavior and given more credible, reliable, and harsher punishment for misbehavior.</div><div><br></div><div>In the third place, the fact our officers are management personnel in the military should make us hold them to higher level of accountability just like the we hold management personnel more responsible in the civilian world.</div><div><br></div><div>In brief, because officers are management personnel they should be held to a higher standard of accountability and punished far more severely.</div><div><br></div>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 18 at 2014 10:54 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 22:54:39 -0500

I maintain that for all NCO's, Warrant Officers, Petty Officers, and Commissioned Officers, the minimum punishments for all offenses in the UCMJ should be doubled. Tripled if alcohol is involved.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 20 at 2014 2:53 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:53:29 -0500

Sorry, no basis for EO. There is a basis for a grievance, but its about your fraternity, getting treated differently, not an EO issue.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Oct 29 at 2014 10:09 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:09:52 -0400

I knew a SFC at Fort Meade, he worked in BN S-1, who got busted for dealing crack or cocaine, I can't remember which it was. He kept wearing his rank and uniform, and was around the unit for months after being busted. We'd see him working after-hours in civvies in the S-1, probably his extra duty. It's been over ten years since it happened but I believe, if I recall correctly, that the explanation given was because his rank was basically an act of Congress, the punishment from BN/BDE could only be so much. Personally, I was floored that a guy who dealt a hard drug wasn't locked up. I feel certain that if that had been a SPC, that guy would have been stripped of rank ASAP, locked up, and probably in Leavenworth inside of a week.

Same thing with affairs. I saw a soldier get dropped all the way back to E1, confined to the barracks, and kicked out of the military on a sexual misconduct charge (the actual story was, he and his wife had a 3-way and the third party ended up reporting it). Yet we have generals who are allowed to retire, probably with a pretty decent package, and because of their rank, political connections, and duty positions they end up going on to be some senior big-wig at a corporation making bank.

I don't understand it. I never will. Sure, sure, I get that rank might have its privileges, but come on. This is a little absurd.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 1 at 2015 4:03 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:03:15 -0500

I think the higher the rank the greater the punishment. IF officers are not punished as severely as enlisted, it needs to be corrected yesterday. Of course this type of...stuff...happens all the time in our military and our World.

Response by 1SG David Lopez made Mar 2 at 2015 10:28 AM

1SG David Lopez — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:28:13 -0500

Lt. Sandy got it right. Rank is not a protected class. There are several protected classes such as race, age, religeon, sexual preference; but Rank is not one of them. Should it be a criteria to file an EO complaint? It certainly seems to meet the criteria for, at least, "the military only." Considering our record concerning punishments dealt out for sexual assaults. Does anybody have data concerning this topic to compare punishments dealt to Officers vs. NCOs vs. Enlisted? I'm not sure if it is just me, but it does seem like Officers, higher ranking, have been allowed to retire with full benefits (but termed booted/forced out), while a lower enlisted is punished severely kicked out, busted in rank, etc; for the same offense.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 5:20 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 17:20:54 -0400

Add to that different races and genders. Several factors can and often do alter the punishment. The answer is NO. It should net matter whom you are, what your rank is, your ethnicity, or your gender.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 5:36 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 17:36:29 -0400

I must be seeing the wrong cases but in every unit I've been in more junior folks are given much lighter punishment for the same "crime." I've seen officers and SNCOs processed for one time offenses that more junior troops have committed multiple times. By the way I'm not saying that is bad, I am just saying I don't think your perception is correct.