Discharging soldiers after combat for drug and alcohol issues

SFC Jay D, Graff SFC (R) — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 02:08:22 -0500

Before I retired, as an acting First Sargent I discharged 2 soldiers that popped hot on a piss test. This angered me to see there was no support post discharge for these young men. It is an issue I have been fighting with politician. Has any one else had any luck advancing this issue?

Response by CPT Lance Cutsforth made Mar 4 at 2014 2:18 AM

CPT Lance Cutsforth — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 02:18:04 -0500

SFC Graff - It is one of many issues that we need to address to take care of our soldiers once they leave service. They obviously made poor choices and suffered the consequences by being discharged. Yet, it begs the question, were they turning to substances as a coping mechanism because of what they had to endure while serving? If there are programs to help inmates with their substance abuse issues, why can't there be similar programs for veterans?

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Mar 4 at 2014 3:39 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 03:39:29 -0500

Part of the problem can be the nature of the discharge when they leave. Usually, chapters for cause result in General under honorable conditions or Other than Honorable. Both of these result in reduced post service benefits, with an OTH severely biting into post service options. Currently I have yet to find a post service program geared to helping Soldiers recover their lives following an OTH.
There are some people who say, let em rot, they deserve it for dishonoring the uniform, but I tend to think the uniform failed them first. The support that should have been there to keep them clean or on the strait and narrow wasn't there and now they want to bail on their responsibility to pick up a fellow veteran.
There are some legal agencies that will help a Soldier "clean up" their record after the fact, but I haven't found one that does reliable pro-bono work for a down and out vet.

I wish I knew the answer you were looking for, but right now, we got congressmen willing to throw honorable service to the wolves, trying to get help for someone that took a wrong turn is nearly impossible.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 4:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:17:15 -0500

I personally believe Soldiers should be given another chance for drug and alcohol related incidents, but it would also depend on the severity of the the infraction committed while under the influence. I think you should give the Soldier their infraction appropriate UCMJ and ensure that they get the rehabilitation that they need so that they can hopefully get better, put it behind them and continue on with their career, WITH their COC now keeping a closer eye on them. With that said, I think right now it doesn't really matter what we want for our Soldiers. With the current Soldier cuts, I think a drug or alcohol related incident involves a trip to the house.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 11:19 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 11:19:42 -0500

Kinda on the same boat if someone gets kicked out for DWI, do we send them to alcohol treatment after discharge. If someone gets kicked out for adultery, do we send them to marriage counseling. Maybe I'm just looking it from the point of view of guys knowing what they were doing and extra funding shouldn't be spent on them.

I've had Soldiers kicked out for drugs, they made a stupid decisions, most realize that. If they are truly addicts, they probably would have been noticed by their NCOs a and given treatment before they pissed hot (I've seen this scenario)

Just my opinion

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2014 1:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:24:48 -0400

If a Soldier is going to be taking a piss test and approaches his/her Chain of Command, and admits to having a problem with drugs/alcohol, I believe that Soldier should be able to attend ASAP/NA type of treatments first. He/she stepped forward and addressed the problem, and that is honorable, despite the violation. UCMJ action should be taken, because using/abusing a controlled substance in the Military obviously isn't acceptable. If that Soldier does not take the appropriate steps to solve his/her drug problem, then Chapter paperwork should be started at that point. I suppose it's on that Soldier's first line to continue support and checking up on them post discharge?

Response by 1LT(P) Josh Coats made Mar 28 at 2014 9:16 AM

1LT(P) Josh Coats — Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:16:03 -0400

An issue I see, that makes this problem worse, is that the regulations do not properly define an alcohol or drug related incident. This is why we see VERY incongruent punishments. Separate subject, The ability of a command to make decisions is taken away by the wording, (the command WILL process the Soldier for discharge after the second offense in 12 months). This sounds like a very good idea, but the impact is that the Soldier can no longer seek help if they relapse, (or they will be kicked out).
Also, If a Soldier needs to be detoxed because they have become addicted to medications given to them by healthcare providers, this can be considered a second drug or alcohol related event (even if they are taking the drugs as prescribed). I know a Soldier that made an honest attempt to kill himself because of this. Maybe this is why congress is taking the command's responsibility for sexual assaults away? Command teams are trying to follow regulations, that in many cases, preclude the use of good judgement.

Response by SFC Jay D, Graff SFC (R) made Mar 30 at 2014 8:57 AM

SFC Jay D, Graff SFC (R) — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 08:57:42 -0400

I guess I should I should clarify my point. Acts of war are extremely violent. We ask GI's to preform immoral acts. Yes they need to be done, we all volunteered and run the risk of being exposed too those acts and witness graphic sights. I believe we have a responsibility to combat vets, and the families that may be effected by mental well being of diagnosed PTSD vets. This is NOT a way around poor choice decisions as medical professionals make those calls not NCO's or officers. If we simply discharge these people there is strong possibility violent acts against their families, inability to sustain employment, and degraded employer benefits will leave these people with out of resources to confront the demons they do not know how to deal with. Social failure of this nature must have a direct connection to the reason why so many homeless are military veterans.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2014 2:43 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:43:38 -0400

That support should come internally if anywhere. The Army doesn't look kindly on those who pop hot. However, it doesn't make them bad people either. I would say that sort of situation calls for a non-profit. Perhaps that's something we need to start looking at?

Response by Cpl Lisa Castor made May 29 at 2014 1:25 AM

Cpl Lisa Castor — Thu, 29 May 2014 01:25:55 -0400

I'm an RN at the West LA VA Medical Center on Wilsher Blvd. I work in the emergency department. It infuriates me to see so many young men come into the ED addicted, homeless and hopeless. Sick from AIDS, infected open wounds from injection sites, and psychologically devastated. These are men in their 20's and 30's! They were very recently at the top of their game. The epitome of health, full of hope and vigor. Now their lives seem over to me. We have to develop a process to treat these soldiers aggressively for drug dependency and PTSD before sending them on their way, back to civilian life. I feel like I have to do something. I don't know what though.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 12:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 May 2014 12:59:48 -0400

I can tell you as a CO that personally I have fought to retain soldiers who showed contrition following popping hot. Majority of time I was able to win and through mentorship from myself and subordinate leaders these soldiers continued to be productive members of the unit. State policy (Two times and are gone) ended a few careers but I do agree that there is no place in the military for drug use. The sad thing is that Active Duty has programs for rehabilitation of Soldiers as do the VA but it is driven Veteran Status and a Guardsman can only achieve that status if having deployed (currently this status is being argued in Congress and hopefully all who volunteer to serve will gain the status as veteran regardless of deploying). The majority of substance abuse within the Guard is not amongst our experienced veterans but rather the recently enlisted. Since Guard is state controlled programs and support needs to come from the Governor through the TAG recommendation.