Do civilian HR jobs discriminate against males?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 01:33:06 -0500

In the Army Reserve, for the past 6 years I've been a dedicated 42A, Human Resources Specialist. I've found a lot of success and training opportunities while performing my duties in a military capacity. However, in the civilian side I've had a hard time getting a human resources job, despite it being my major and a highlight on my resume. I come off great in interviews and am told I am highly fluent in my skill set. I've done some research and found that 78% of those who practice human resources are females. My question here is if anyone thinks I am wasting my time pursuing a degree that ultimately won't be open to me because of my sex. I have a year left until I get my bachelors degree in HRM and am somewhat contemplating changing my major. Thank you.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Feb 4 at 2016 1:51 AM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 01:51:49 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Honestly (and I'm going to catch shit for this, I know), your question is incomplete. "Do civilian HR jobs discriminate against white males?". And the simple answer is that it's become PC these days to be inclusive of everyone...and it's ok for that to happen at the expense of this subset, regardless of their qualification relative to other applicants. Kind of like, everyone can get behind derision for fat people. It's NOT ok...but it's socially acceptable, these days. Arguments -- good arguments -- can be made that white males have had their turn at the helm, and it's time to let others. That's true enough.

When the bar has swung so far that you start passing over more-qualified people for less-qualified people based upon gender, race, religion, orientation...whatever, though...well. There's a word for that, that's also no longer socially acceptable to apply to white males. The irony of it is that the vast majority of non-white males that I know would tell you to kiss off if you offered them a job simply because of their race, rather than their qualifications. They don't want or need 'charity'. They want to make their way on their own merits, just like everyone else. People that demand a position for ANY other reason than their qualifications and experience, white, black, asian, martian...aren't looking for a fair shake.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Feb 4 at 2016 7:34 AM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 07:34:09 -0500

If working in HR is something that you enjoy and want to do, stick with it. You will eventually get your opportunity. Maybe only 22% of HR professionals are males (using your numbers), but you should also look at what percentage of applicants are males. Overall, you certainly have more than a shot at getting into the profession, and if that's the field you want to pursue, it would be a shame to abandon it now and do something you enjoy less.

I would recommend connecting with some current HR professions who have a similar background to you and ask them how they have succeeded in the field. They may have some basic tips to pass on that will help you with your next application. You may think that you "come off great in interviews" but many interviewers won't actually give honest feedback. You may be making some serious mistake and not even know it. It sounds way to early to give up on it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 7:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 07:41:25 -0500

Sure does seem that way at times. I have been doing HR in some capacity for 20 years, and have not been successful finding employment in that field despite actively trying for seven months.
I don't know if it is some sort of bias, but I am certainly qualified for what I've been applying for.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 4 at 2016 8:07 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:07:40 -0500

My 20 year in private industry has shown that the top level cabinet positions are predominantly male. However, I would not doubt the 78% figure overall. Don't know if that helps.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Feb 4 at 2016 10:53 AM

SSG Keith Cashion — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:53:30 -0500

Having been a 42A for 18 of my 22 rears in service, I would say it is difficult some times. When I retired, I worked in the Private sector for 3 1/2 years before I could Land a HR DOD position.

I would say complete the degree, and also through some Strategic or Project Management studies in there as well. A lot of companies are looking for well rounded HR folks that understand the whole picture. Yes military Regs are different Regs, but then again it depends on who your customers are. If you are looking at Soldier Regs, as opposed to Civilian Regs...then Yes. But if you are looking at Civilian Regs as to Government and Private Sector, then their isn't much difference.

I would suggest getting in touch with the Society for Human Recourses Management (SHRM) as they have a lot of good information, and could give you the tips and tricks to make yourself more marketable.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 11:00 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:00:38 -0500

White males? in a word, yes!!! And they have ever since Affirmative Action came into being.

Response by SFC Adam Potter made Feb 4 at 2016 11:12 AM

SFC Adam Potter — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:12:20 -0500

I'm a veteran, and a male and I work in the Human Resources field. I think you need to consider that you are competing for jobs that has 75% females, so the odds of someone being more qualified than you and being of the opposite sex is greater. Consider also Military HR is a bit different the the civilian sector depending on the discipline you are jumping into. You're not going to deal with FMLA issues, EEOC complaints, Worker's Compensations claims, Affirmative Action Planning, etc. etc. while in the military. When I transitioned into the civilian sector, I had to become educated quickly in a number of areas to be an effective HR professional. I started in the non-profit sector, and was fortunate enough to land am HR Director role.

Use your current military experience to qualify to take the PHR or SHRM-CP exams. The certification will make you stand out from other applicants. I highly suggest getting study materials for this exam, as the PHR has about a 54% pass rate.

So I don't think you're being discriminated against based on what you have shared. There just happens to be more people of the opposite sex your competing against, so how do you "stand out" from your competition?

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Feb 4 at 2016 12:24 PM

SGT Mark Rhodes — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:24:12 -0500

I don't think its discrimination on being a male most places want that BS degree regardless of the experience. Most HRs don't believe that the military equivalent job is the same because we follow a different set laws. HR laws can be very tricking so that's why most companies want that degree in hand. I fought for years but I finally gave up and started my degree in Information Tech.

Response by LTC Hillary Luton made Feb 4 at 2016 12:52 PM

LTC Hillary Luton — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:52:51 -0500

Well, you can look at it as discrimination, change your degree and allow yourself to be beaten, or you can finish your degree in your current field of study, renew your dedication to be the best you can be in your career field and be a success. The choice is yours.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Feb 4 at 2016 1:33 PM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 13:33:46 -0500

This happens all the time in civ and military life. Military example is after seeing countless peers sacked for inappropriate relationships a senior officer decides that he will never allow a female driver, aide, xo. , etc. Those closest to him will be male and females can occupy other positions based upon merit. This can easily be done and no one is the wiser, but how can you blame the officer for protecting his family and himself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 3:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:57:59 -0500

Have you checked USAJobs.com? I got my current job position (Military Personnel and Administrative Assistant) from there since January 2015 and I am a GS-7.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 4:23 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:23:08 -0500

My brother retired from the Air Force as a crew chief. He than went to school and received his degree in HR. He also went on to get his Masters. He is now the regional HR manager for Auto Zone. If you love it and want to do it there will be a way. Now, don't get me started how HR has a different set of rules for the employees they are to help protect. That is the BS part.

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Feb 4 at 2016 9:12 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:12:40 -0500

There are tremendous differences between "HR" functions in the military and the civilian world. In the military, HR work (recruiter, instructor, detailer) are part of the path to senior ranks. In the civilian world, not so much - CEOs and such don't come out of the HR department. Interesting perspective on this in CORPS BUSINESS http://www.amazon.com/Corps-Business-Management-Principles-1-Jan-2000/dp/B013ILPJ3U/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=1-2-fkmr2&keywords=30+business+practices+freedman I got a real feel for this when I worked with a County Administrator who was once the Director of Marine Corps Personnel - a 3-star billet

Depending on what you want to do, the HR degree may be a great asset - but in CivCom, often the HR staff are more like folks who help you fill out insurance forms, or investigate discrimination complaints But the knowledge and skills may help you on another path - like operations management, where you lead and manage people all the time.

Corps Business: The 30 Management Principles of the US Marines by David H. Freedman (1-Jan-2000)...

Corps Business: The 30 Management Principles of the US Marines by David H. Freedman (1-Jan-2000) Hardcover [David H. Freedman] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers.

Response by CPT Catherine R. made Feb 4 at 2016 10:50 PM

CPT Catherine R. — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 22:50:20 -0500

The Assistant Director of Human Resources at the Agency I work at is male! When I worked HR, half my staff was male. It's all what you make of it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 10:07 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:07:03 -0500

The inconvenient truth is that all people gravitate towards and like familiarity, that is they are capable of having hidden biases and if not aware allowing those to taint their choices.

It is illegal to make choices that consider biased selections based on race sex religion etc. So under the law you have a case for a potential civil rights complaint or possibly at least a reasonable claim to receive a preference for being interviewed as a "underrepresented group".

Unfortunately you are not in a preferred or protected group. Under the law everyone is supposed to be entitled to the same protection under the law. Unfortunately we are not al equal under the law. The problem is that these laws appear to conflict directly with "preference programs" intended to "balance the playing field" and include more women and minority employees. No one to date can rectify how the two conflicting policies can coexist without violating constitutional principles. How do you prefer someone with out marginalizing another?

Bottom line is you need to learn more about your field of choice and make a decision how to and if you can get a fair equal opportunity to work on your chosen profession. Good luck and work for an America where we are all granted equal protection under the law regardless of race color religion or gender.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 11:33 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 11:33:55 -0500

The term Human Resources in the Army is very different from Human Resources on the civilian side. I would recommend reviewing your resume and ensuring that their isn't too much Military jargon in it. Use the job listings and description of duties to be performed to help shape your resume to be more suitable for civilian employment. As a 42A have you ever looked into becoming a Mil-Tech? They have HR/Administrative positions that would suit your skillset and provide pretty decent opportunities for advancement.

Response by SFC Justin Scott made Feb 5 at 2016 11:55 AM

SFC Justin Scott — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 11:55:16 -0500

Here is the question that you haven't answered in your post: Do you think that you're more qualified than you actually are because of your military experience? Moreover, what I'm saying is, are you applying for jobs that you aren't qualifying for? Since you don't currently have your degree, you're relying on your military experience to help you land that job, but does your experience really matter for the jobs you are applying for? Another individual already posted something similar to what I'm stating. As an HR person in the military, you aren't dealing with many of the HR issues that are dealt with in the civilian world. I would posit that once your degree is completed, your experience will mean a lot more to these employers than it does now absent the degree because your education will make up for what you lack in experience in certain areas.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 12:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 12:17:19 -0500

Keep at it!!! Lot of money in HR

Response by SGT Ronald Bacon made Feb 5 at 2016 2:06 PM

SGT Ronald Bacon — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:06:23 -0500

I have worked for and with companies with male HR but I will agree I seen a large number being female. I am not sure what line of work you are looking to be part of... Look at some of the large companies and start there. They house a number of people if many different backgrounds just so someone have someone they are conferable with. Near me Corning Inc. is that company. They had 4 or 5 Male HR but 10-15 female so they even have the "1/4 rule".

Response by SFC Cindy Paris made Feb 5 at 2016 9:38 PM

SFC Cindy Paris — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:38:42 -0500

The company I work for is about 65% males in HR. I have found that what holds me back more is the fact that I am a military HR which does not do the same functions as a civilian HR ... Mainly regarding Federal and State Law

Response by LCpl Chad Parson made Feb 11 at 2016 11:56 PM

LCpl Chad Parson — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 23:56:25 -0500

Once you finish your bachelors in HR, you may wish to continue your education in the field of Industrial/Organizational Psychology. Check out what we do and feel free to contact me directly if it seems like a path you're interested in.

Response by CPT John Sheridan made Apr 26 at 2016 8:22 AM

CPT John Sheridan — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:22:28 -0400

Human Resources positions with corporations have become highly competitive as these corporations have substantially reduced or eliminated their own HR departments. Many of the HR functions, such as benefit management, records management, and such, have been taken over by third party contractors such as Aon Hewitt. Hiring processes are managed by third party recruiter firms.

HR is a field that has many more women working than men, so it is unavoidable that you will compete with women for those jobs and when you aren't successful, it is more likely that you will have "lost" the competition to a woman. That doesn't necessarily mean discrimination is involved.

I urge you to speak to faculty members in your school's department, especially those with connections to industry. Learn where the jobs are and what concentrations/sub-disciplines are in the greatest demand. Armed with that knowledge, I believe you will be better equipped to make your decision.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2016 9:12 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:12:21 -0400

I do not think there is discrimination toward males, I can tell you having been in the system, knowing someone helps. In alot of cases the job maybe published publicly but privately they have someone in mind already that person just has to make the final list. I have seen units reject a the final list because the person they wanted did not make the list. So I am sure HR may well function the same way.

Response by LT Chris Vansickle made Nov 5 at 2016 2:31 AM

LT Chris Vansickle — Sat, 05 Nov 2016 02:31:05 -0400

Recommend getting involved with local SHRM chapter, volunteer for a committee that either stretches you or plays to your strengths, and/or pursue certification from SHRM and/or HRCI.

Response by MSG Brian Berger made Nov 12 at 2016 12:34 AM

MSG Brian Berger — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 00:34:34 -0500

When I retired from 42A in 2014 I went to work for the state at an entry level position because I didn't want to supervise anyone. Do my job and go home. After a year I seen an HR Specialist job open up. I interviewed and got the job. Of all the HR Specialists that I work for, I am the only male that happens to work as a Specialist. There are 2 male HR managers. What got me the job was all my experience, and my positive can do attitude. HR on the civilian side is the same, we have to remember that we are not talking to Soldiers, I sometimes have to refrain myself. From what I seen, the HR field does seem to be a lot of females.

Response by SPC Steve ChenRobbins made Feb 12 at 2019 7:55 AM

SPC Steve ChenRobbins — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 07:55:24 -0500

The percentage of people in a job who are a particular sex or race doesn't necessarily point to discrimination. There are many jobs that will attract more women than men, as well as certain types of degrees (like social work) that women are more likely to choose, or (like heavy construction) that men are more likely to choose.

Response by Haroon Humraaz made Jun 1 at 2019 3:22 AM

Haroon Humraaz — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 03:22:45 -0400

I had contract with HHC company commander CPT Brent pfeiffer in Afghanistan Fob lightning I'm looking for HHC company HR department to get my HR letter