Do civilians really 'bother' you? (Post military)

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:46:28 -0400

Some of us have problems with transitioning...it may be a job, it may be interacting with non-military types, it may be getting a new job, relocating, taking off the uniform, PTSD, lack of camaraderie, general lazy work ethic of today's workforce, the problem transitioning is largely blamed on us, on our inability to adapt.

Did you have to re-program, de-fuze, re-learn, shut-it-off, or was your transition easy?

Do certain sub-groups of the population bother you even to this day? Do you feel a stranger amongst your civilian friends? Do you feel like a wolf in sheeps clothes?

Do you constantly alienate those around you with your military jargon, quotes, social media memes?

Have you changed? I mean, permanently...are you different, have people told you that you are different...after all you left a boy (or girl) and came back a Man (or woman)...quite literally with the new transgender rules?

I seem to constantly alienate my immediate family members...I would be lying to say my transition hasn't been easy. In one way, going from active duty to Guard probably saved me, but in another way, it has permanently molded me to all things military...prolonging my agony. This is for those that have trouble transitioning, for those that have had little to no trouble at all please feel to chime in with what has worked for you, but do not put anyone down for their comments, opinions, struggles or obstacles.

This is a forum for healing...we all need healing. IMO, we all have some form of PTSD, we all have suffered a loss, almost been killed; in training or in combat. Some of us have taken lives, some of us have taken many lives...we have to live with this...we need each other, this is not a forum for bashing. Share your struggles, share your comforts, share your trophies, and your battles won.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 14 at 2015 6:50 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:50:56 -0400

Actually the answer is, it depends.... But, civilians... the 99.55% of America, is why we exist. I think the issue is, we understand our world, and they can't understand it.

In the world of Education, my new world... most are very liberal (anti-military and security), and the leaders (administrators) are hardly leaders by military standards... so in the work place... sorta strange.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 6:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:59:40 -0400

In not even out yet and they annoy me. I think it mostly boils down to our subculture in the military and partially our enlightenment of the things outside our boarders. We experience things that most of them can't fathom, wether it be the horrors of combat, the feeling of saving another's life, or even true brotherhood that is stronger than family.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 14 at 2015 7:19 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:19:12 -0400

It was a jarring transition for me, but that was the times. When I left for Vietnam, the war hadn't yet sunk to the depths of unpopularity that prevailed when I returned. However, there were many cultural changes that were even more pronounced. The Race Riots occurred during my absence and I returned to cities that looked like armed encampments. Little things left a big impression. When I left, stores closed on Sundays. 7/11 originally was named to advertise the fact that they were open from 7 am to 11 pm. They were open 24/7 when I returned. Prices escalated. Motel 6 was named to advertised the fact that you could get a room for $6/night. Yes, really.

Now add all that on top of the fact that my buddies who hadn't served had flourished in a growing economy. Many were making $10,000 per year. Some more! Imagine that. And they never had the responsibility I had. Nothing like it at all.

Still, I had the pride of serving and the accomplishments and the adventures that have given me grist for my stories...

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 14 at 2015 8:15 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:15:02 -0400

Well, I was alienating my fair share of people when I was in, but I did find that I had to have terms redefined...for example, "right away" means something different outside of the military...not right now but sometime soon. Long story short...he did get it right away and I am sorry for anyone that was forced to do work today, instead of next week like they planned.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Apr 14 at 2015 9:22 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:22:29 -0400

I never really had any problem detaching myself from the military jargon and slang when I left the ship or base.
The only thing that really bothers me is when I say I am retired that so many people give a gushing "thanks for your service" that sounds fake.
I have been to job interviews where there were several other candidates present and either I was overdressed or they (civilians) just don't understand business professional or business casual.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 15 at 2015 12:02 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:02:44 -0400

I've been in corporate America before joining and now having left. I have gotten the chance to experience the best and the worse of both worlds. There are some civilians that bother me, and there are some military personnel that bother me. I don't look at civilian or military, I look at the person. Working at a pretty laid back technology company, it would probably make everyone uncomfortable for myself to turn on "military mode". Hoever when I was serving, the "laid back" attitude would've gotten me some chewing out and some paperwork. I can adapt and conform to dofferent standards easily.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 15 at 2015 10:46 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:46:25 -0400

Civilian specifically? No, humans in general yes.
I like my dogs more than I like most people I meet. Your chosen profession has little to do with it.. be it in government service or flipper of burgers

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Apr 15 at 2015 12:40 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:40:29 -0400

The biggest issues I see are language barriers and mind set disconnects.
For instance, I didn't know telling someone to pull their head out of their third point of contact would confuse them. - It just doesn't have the same effect when you have to explain it.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Apr 15 at 2015 12:52 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:52:57 -0400

Upon retirement I went to work for a large faith based hospital system and it took me a while to get used to the pace and flow of operations. My biggest shock was the number of civilians who would look you in the eye and agree to do something, then simply not do it. In some cases it was laziness, and in others it was incompetence, but mostly it was poor training. Say what you will about the Military, but they train people to do a job, including to be leaders and supervisors. In the civilian world leaders and supervisors are hired to do a job for which they are already "supposed" to be qualified. Or they are promoted into a supervisory position as reward for being good at their old position and they will keep getting promoted until they fail miserably (i.e. the Peter Principal).

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Apr 15 at 2015 3:41 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:41:21 -0400

Some of them yes. I was dating this civilian guy and one day he said "military are underworked and overpaid, only the civilians who work with the military do anything." I tried to explain to him that there are not obligated to release me at any set time during the duty day, that I could be sent on TDY/deployment with little to no notification, do not get paid overtime, do not recieve comp time ect. He insisted I was wrong. Needless to say we are no longer dating and have no further communications. If you want to be successful in dating, insulting a girl's service and profession is not the way to her heart.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Nov 14 at 2015 10:19 AM

MSG Floyd Williams — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 10:19:11 -0500

The only civilians that bothered me are the ones whose work ethics is poor, and don't give respect and support for our military they only there for the paycheck I'm referring to the ones who work for the government.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2015 3:23 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 03:23:07 -0500

I have been gifted with the pleasure of having both lifestyles going at once (reserves). But because I have been in the military for almost a while.. Realizing that civilians will almost never have the discipline, culture, and basic true team spirit as the military. But in a lot of ways, I feel alienated because of my disdain for lateness, laziness, useless arguing, the whole me before everyone else additude, and unnecessary small talk. It's a hard transition I'm sure, for people coming from active duty to civilian workforce.. But imagine doing it over and over again every month. Mind blowing.

Response by TSgt Dave Beem made Nov 23 at 2015 10:18 AM

TSgt Dave Beem — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:18:28 -0500

Well, if the DRAFT was still in force, we wouldn't be feeling it as much as we do under the all volunteer force. Remember that the last members of the DRAFT era are Vietnam Vets, whom are for the most part in their 60's to even 80's now (not many left from WWII, and I think the last WWI vet died a few years ago).

All those previous generations prior to VietNam had a very LARGE segment of the population that WAS "military savvy". since then, taking a wild guess here, there might have been 40 million "new" military folks gone thru the mill since then. Might be more., But STILL not a very significant chunk of the population.

As a result, most civilians who were NOT in the military nor associated with it, know very LITTLE about us. Look at congress and see how many of them have kids on active duty now. I think it was maybe 5 during Desert Storm/Shield, and it went down from there.

Do NOT think that it's your fault, it's not. Society has changed. I know the USA I grew up with in the 1960's has been dead for a very long time. It doesn't exist anymore except in memories.

You'll also find that most civilians (non- prior military) are of the "Joe Sixpack" variety. What he knows about society in general and the military in particular comes from movies and the news, and the news rarely has anything good to say about the military. Warriors throughout history have been known to prefer the company of other warriors, even of opposing sides in whatever war they were in, over civilians. Because civilians have no reference point to understand our experiences nor our world view. Remember that 80% of americans will NEVER LEAVE THE US during their lives. We've seen things, done things, that they have no clue about. Might as well have been on Alpha Centauri as overseas.

Civilians are, I'm sorry to say, not very motivated to find out about us anyway. They simply, DO. NOT. CARE. They're squeamish, self centered, prejudiced, bigoted, ignorant and lazy (not all, but a large percentage are). Call them CATTLE. They have their shepherds (politicians) and we are the wolves. WE know it and it will always be in our subconscious and it SHOWS. We walk differently, talk differently, think differently, and we quite frankly scare the living hell out of many civilians, (especially liberals..lol). When I show folks MY photo albums of my war years, they flip about 3 pages and hand it back, saying "I can't look anymore, I'll barf".

Also, our humor is a bit rougher than the PC civilians and quite honestly, most of the time we think they're ignorant jackasses when they talk about subjects they really know nothing about. We were held to a higher standard throughout our careers. We did attract our country's best and brightest (at times anyway). The US DOES HAVE A CASTE SYSTEM. You have the rich caste (old money), the New Rich (people the snobs say have no breeding), the warrior class (US) and the rest, who exist solely to serve the rich (and when you think about it long enough, you'll see that lower or middle class isn't really a caste that can be separated into two parts, because there's free movement between both low and middle class sub castes.

You might be able to make a case for a merchant class..maybe. 40 years ago you could easily.

But the bottom line is that today, civilians have no clue, no shared experiences with us, unlike previous generations (meaning ending with the end of the baby boomers)

So don't think it's YOUR FAULT, IT IS NOT! We fight for them..for their freedom, THEIR SAFETY, and because of that, they have no clue who we are or what we stand for. We can't educate them. They have to take an interest in their protectors.

Nuff Said

Dave

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Jul 20 at 2017 12:54 PM

AA Joseph Moody — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:54:59 -0400

Our society needs more things to temper people, and the military is good for that. Don't get me wrong, I did one hitch in the navy and yes I learned some values from that hitch that has done wonders for improving my life, and later in federal service I spent my time working with lives, yes it might be a box with wires coming out of it, but it is someone's life. And something I found in that time was that the Vets in federal service were aware of that on a personal and for the lack of a better word an intimate level, while many of those who never served it was more of an abstract concept (Although that guy who did 10 years as a paramedic was quite keen on that, so it is said)

But...as of the past few years I've been doing digital art and one thing I've found is that so many people I meet in that field have not been tempered. Concepts of accountability and ethics that most people here take for granted is something I often find myself at odds with with artists.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 6:52 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:52:24 -0400

I hate to say it a great many times they do. Quite a bit in my own family because they want you to be something your not in the Military at least in my commands they always had a respect of me that I don't experience with certain members of my own family and when I ask them about it they got an attitude where they are right and I'm wrong and just got to put up with it.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Aug 1 at 2017 7:00 PM

MSgt Mark Bucher — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:00:11 -0400

Bother me? Now that's the major understatement of the year!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2019 8:22 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:22:19 -0500

Attitude-wise, it wasn't much of a transition for me, at all.
This is mostly because I never really saw myself as all that different from my civilian counterparts.
At the end of the day, we're all just people with jobs to do.
When I switched from Military Pilot to Civilian Pilot, there were certainly some different rules/regulations I needed to learn, but the adjustment wasn't all that different from PCSing and learning a new Brigade SOP.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 4 at 2019 7:06 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 19:06:25 -0400

No, they don't!

Response by SPC Dayleen DeRiggs made Feb 5 at 2020 3:43 PM

SPC Dayleen DeRiggs — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 15:43:54 -0500

I've been out of the Army for many years now and I am still told by family, friends and co workers that I am military minded. I still have a hard time understanding the lack of standards in some civilians. There is a way to do things and a way not to do things.... over the years I feel that I 've gotten better at dealing with it and not just getting frustrated and doing it myself.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 18 at 2021 12:59 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 18 May 2021 12:59:47 -0400

Veterans who can't accept that they're civilians now are the worst for me..