Do Concealed Carrying States have Less Crime?

2016-02-12T17:25:45-05:00

A Tale of Two Cities (See Picture Above) Double click on it to read!

Here is an update for all you 2nd Amendment Gun enthusiast with a little sarcasm added!

Does Concealed Carrying States make a difference in crime?

Beside the sarcasm above what are your thoughts? Professional Responses Please

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Feb 12 at 2016 5:27 PM

2016-02-12T17:27:30-05:00

Yes Concealed Carry certainly has made a difference in crime rates COL Mikel J. Burroughs or the better in part because thugs don't know is carrying.
We could also use Virgina which has concealed carry but our progressive governor and attorney general are doing their best to end it. Thankfully they lost the majority in the state senate during the last election. There are a number of bills in both houses of the legislatures which have been advancing reciprocity of agreements with states which also have concealed carry laws.

Response by SFC Justin Scott made Feb 12 at 2016 5:30 PM

2016-02-12T17:30:29-05:00

First off, the headline is misleading and depicts s lack of understanding of firearms laws anyway. The misleading comes from the fact that the headline references states and then the comparison provided is two cities. The lack of understanding results in the fact that ALMOST all states have concealed carry in some form.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 5:30 PM

2016-02-12T17:30:48-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Yes. It is evidenced in the release of statistical data after guns were banned in some areas. In addition to this Great Britain banned guns their data is reflective of an increase in crime in correlation with when the gun ban stages occurred. Your data though is not inclusive of the entire state it is reflecting the data from two cities within states.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/09/24/how-gun-control-made-england-the-most-violent-country-in-europe/

How Gun Control Made England The 'Most Violent Country In Europe' - Breitbart

How Gun Control Made England The 'Most Violent Country In Europe'

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 5:39 PM

2016-02-12T17:39:01-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs http://truthinmedia.com/crime-rates-in-chicago-plummet-after-il-implements-concealed-carry/

Crime Rates in Chicago Plummet After IL Implements Concealed Carry

Gun rights activists have often held up Chicago as an example of the failures of gun control. The city has historically had some of the strictest laws agai

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 12 at 2016 5:47 PM

2016-02-12T17:47:43-05:00

To be honest, I was leery of civilians with guns. Remember that old adage: Never trust a lieutenant with a compass or a captain with a rifle? Civilians with guns scared me far worse than those. Then I saw claims such as this and began checking. I visited the FBI website and waded through the collected data. I also visited the Home Office in Britain via the Internet and waded through theirs. Although they do not make a case for gun ownership or concealed carry as having a direct affect on crime rates, their data clearly demonstrates a significant statistical relationship that is above repute. Disarming law-abiding civilians does not mitigate crime. Indeed, it appears that crime increases as law-abiding civilians are disarmed. Don't take my word for it. Go see for yourself. If you have never been trained to read data or statistical reports, go ask your brother-in-law or anyone else you know who has the necessary training and experience to help you. Don't waste your time listening to your favorite pundits or journalists. They all have ideological agendas. Go find out for yourself. This is important and it's worth the effort.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

NUMBER ONE WITH A BULLET

The USA has, by far, the highest per capita gun ownership in the world. Progressives will tell you that this is what makes America the Murder Capitol of Plan...

Response by CPO Frank Coluccio made Feb 12 at 2016 5:58 PM

2016-02-12T17:58:55-05:00

So, gun ownership in America is among the highest in the world, if not the highest. As for gun deaths in the world, per capita (as it should be measured) the US ranks 11th. Haiti is 1st (with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world). Now if you remove 4 cities from the US statistics, the US drops all the way down to around 210th; below England, Australia.
Those four cities are Chicago, Los Angeles, New Orleans and DC. ALL with some of the most, if not the most restrictive gun control laws in the US. ALL governed by Liberal Democrats for YEARS!!!
Switzerland, where it is mandated that EVERY home of military aged men, have "Assault Rifle" military type weapons has the lowest crime rate in the world.
And just remember, Plano, Texas has the highest gun per resident ratio in the US. According to the "Anti-Gun" and "Gun Grabbers" Plano should also have the highest "Homicide by Gun' and crime rate in the US, but just the opposite is the case. The gun death is (iirc) at about .2 per 100,000.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 12 at 2016 6:06 PM

2016-02-12T18:06:42-05:00

I've spoken about this before, however Chicago has a Population density above the magic "5k/sqmile" number which is where people lose their mind.

Chicago = 11k+, Houston = 3.6k~

Unfortunately, that "theoretical" number exists primarily in Gun Control heavy states (& DC) whereas in more Gun Rights heavy areas, the population "spread" makes the Density lower.

Urbanization is a contributing factor to Violence, when combined with Education, and Poverty.

CC Capt Richard I P.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 12 at 2016 6:15 PM

2016-02-12T18:15:57-05:00

For anyone not familiar with Kennesaw, GA, look it up. Proof CC and the threat of an armed citizens lowers crime.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 6:31 PM

2016-02-12T18:31:13-05:00

As a concealed carry holder, I never leave home without a gun. On a little different plan of thought it is funny that Chicago also outlaws the sale of aerosol cans within the city limits to prevent graffiti, guess what...they still have lots of graffiti.

Has anyone ever wondered why farm houses are very rarely broken into...all the farmers have guns and most are old vets.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Feb 12 at 2016 7:03 PM

2016-02-12T19:03:18-05:00

While I enjoy owning my weapons and even carrying them, I don't actually need to carry them. If I was to prepare for every single possibility that could go wrong and where a weapon would be needed, I may as well lock myself into a padded cell, and eat my meals with wobbly utensils. I'd also have Limbaugh and Trump on the radio to add to my craziness. If you really think that carrying is going to be your end all be all, problem solved, then you might have a problem. If you think that it's better to have than not to, I'd agree with that UNTIL the true motive comes out, and the reasoning comes to religion, skin color, and location. I could take some flack for it, but when you look at the areas and look to see WHERE the weapons that are carried with a license or concealed you're no longer in the ghettos, trailer parks or projects. These are mainly suburbanites with a paranoia of anything or anyone who doesn't look like them, share their views, or practice their religion. We could use Ferguson as an example. The local populace didn't have anything compared to the weaponry the police had, and it makes sense. Now the Oath Keepers show up, and they're bringing out ALL of the "Cool Guy" toys, and no one says a word. It's ok. They're the "Good Guys". Can someone explain that to me? They don't live there, come in with "military" esque weapons, and the locals had what? Bad intentions and a desire to burn the place down? Doesn't equate the same. So you can go INTO the ghetto with a weapon and it's ok. Come OUT of the ghetto with one and it's your ass? Mass shootings.....they're being done with "legally" bought weapons by legal owners. Not by the local ghetto hoodlum or even trailer park hick, but by suburbanites. So maybe I'm safer in the "hood" than I am in the suburbs where folks are planning WW50 thinking whatever mass media says is gold, and Obama and Holder are gonna come and take your weapons from you.....mind no it's not true, but who cares about the truth? So I'm here next to Jim who thinks the Feds are gonna come and harass him, so he needs a Barret .50 BMG with Silencer just for home protection. Or Jim is worried that Akhmed is going to kill him in Jihad so he uparmors his Kia. He can site all kinds of stats to back up his claim, but maybe what we NEED is to TALK about "rumors and innuendo's" vs. FACTS and REALITY. Sorry RP I don't think too many of you have spent any time in the projects unless you got lost, were there trying to get something you shouldn't, were those we used to pick on..the folks who live in the SUBURBS but come to SE to do dirt then go back to MD or VA to live. FACT....you can live just fine in the ghetto if you mind your own business. FACT...I lived in one...NEVER had a weapon turned out pretty decent. FACT....if we did a roundup of weapons in SE DC and did a comparable roundup in VA, guess where you'd find more weapons? It won't be DC, but guess where most of the weapons IN DC come from. Someone will call me out on what I said as facts, and ask for proof. I've lived in BOTH areas most of my life, and in DC like I said before, MOST of the ignorance you see and hear about are done by folks who do NOT actually live in town. Most are really decent hard working folks, the same as anywhere else, BUT....They (suburbans) come in, do their "work" and go home. In VA the paranoia's so bad in some places, you'd think you'd need an Abrams to go to 7/11. People need to be prepared. If you're version of being "prepared" involves you walking around with a AR or AK with a drum or beta mag, maybe you need to re-access where you are, and where you need to be. 43 years on this earth, and never had to worry about a weapon being in the paint isle until we allowed ourselves to become the sheep. Never had to carry until everyone decided that "if you don't look like me, you're out to get me". I'm gonna stop this rant by saying some of what I've mentioned in regards to the "sheep" are here on this very site in their comments about others. You're not helping anyone, but you're doing one hell of a job spreading the ignorance and paranoia.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 12 at 2016 10:31 PM

2016-02-12T22:31:02-05:00

I wish they would target the right people who should not have guns than law abiding folks with guns.

Response by MSG John Wirts made Feb 12 at 2016 11:12 PM

2016-02-12T23:12:11-05:00

Well Col I was stationed in Germany, they had strict gun control, and high violent crime rates. Norway and Switzerland had gun ownership and personal weapons supplied to their military through out their career. When they separated from their military assignment, their personal weapon was sent home with them, violent crime was very low. But the crem de la crem was England, when I was in Germany the English had private gun ownership, and low crime. The Bobbies were armed with truncheons, sometime ago they outlawed privately owned firearms, confiscated them and destroyed them. Now violent crime is up 400%, and the Bobbies are carrying sub machine guns! So much for gun control reducing crime!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 12 at 2016 11:32 PM

2016-02-12T23:32:12-05:00

Yes COL Mikel J. Burroughs I believe they do...

I live in the great state of Missouri, and outside of the few major cities... in the rural areas (where I live) everyone has lots of guns, and many many have concealed carry. "Would-be bad guys" think twice before they bust into a house or attempt a crime against a person here, as they have no idea who has a gun, and they know (A) most everyone has a gun (s)(many), and (B) they aren't afraid to use them, and many are actually hoping they have that opportunity.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Feb 13 at 2016 2:15 AM

2016-02-13T02:15:36-05:00

LOL. Chicago doesn't just not have concealed carry; they have the most draconian gun prohibitions in the country.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made Feb 13 at 2016 7:45 AM

2016-02-13T07:45:26-05:00

The answer to your question COL Mikel J. Burroughs is yes. Most criminal's are opportunist and look for the easy victim or victimless type's of crime. I am glad I live in a state that lets me exercise my rights.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2016 9:54 AM

2016-02-13T09:54:13-05:00

It's my view that the Constitution allows ALL citizens to open or concealed carry. "Shall not be infringed" means ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.

This idea in practice would have to result in diminished crime statistics.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Feb 13 at 2016 10:25 AM

2016-02-13T10:25:38-05:00

I'd expect the "numbers" vary by location due to many other factors as well. A couple of factors that would be different is the "criminal doesn't know who is armed" and "gun free is a target". Those aspects would tend to push the result one way or the other. How much? We really don't know given the other dozens of factors we can't get a handle on. There was one commercial that will have you think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4pSnVegZY

Wrong Diner, R. Lee Ermey Glock Commercial

Everybody Needs To Own A Gun

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 13 at 2016 6:15 PM

2016-02-13T18:15:34-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Why only a choice of two states for such a question? Arizona's non-resident, mail order, CCW License is accepted in 36 states. What about those states being included in your survey? Do you have a bias towards IL and TX?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2016 7:51 PM

2016-02-13T19:51:46-05:00

When I saw this on my phone, I thought the title asked if Conceal Carry States have less GRIME. Could not figure out why how dirty a state was related to guns.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Feb 13 at 2016 10:46 PM

2016-02-13T22:46:07-05:00

As a retired law enforcement officer with over 30 years experience from a liberal state, I can tell you that crooks fear honest citizens with guns a lot more than law enforcement or the justice system. Absolutely, more guns in the hands of honest citizens reduces violent crime.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Feb 14 at 2016 4:41 AM

2016-02-14T04:41:58-05:00

No I do not believe that Concealed Carry states have lower crime rates. The only thing I can legitimately comment on though is thru my own life experiences. I grew up in Cincinnati, OH when I was growing up if you entered a store armed and were not wearing a badge you would be assumed to be a thief and if the store owner killed you with his gun under the counter that would have been considered self defense. I've lived in the Big City where only Cops and Criminals carried guns, I've also lived in the country where everybody to include me carried a weapon (Backwoods WV just the way it was). I've walked thru London with never a concern because Violent Crime is Virtually Non-Existent There (Contrary to what Right Wing Pundits that have never lived there tell you). I've also walked thru the worst most violent most dangerous neighborhoods in SE DC unarmed and while a bit leery and nervous, I never had a problem. I feel that Modern 2A Proponents Prey on Peoples Fears and Put Guns in the Hands of those least qualified to have them. I also "Feel" that the NRA is nothing more than the Lobbyist for the Gun and Ammo Manufacturers and as any businessman feels they can never sell enough of their product and give a damn who uses it for what means.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Feb 14 at 2016 12:00 PM

2016-02-14T12:00:55-05:00

I think they do, I lived in Alaska for eight years. You don't have to a concealed carry permit there. It's a free carry state, it just certain places you can't go with a weapon on like pretty much all the other states. So you can carry with you weapon concealed all the time. Everyone know everyone has a weapon there so know one acts stupid. Do get me wrong there is still so crime there you will always have your dummy's where ever you live, but crime is allot lower there then the rest of the states. I stayed in the Fairbanks and North Pole area mainly, I loved it up there.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 1:23 PM

2016-02-14T13:23:37-05:00

Shockingly, the stats in this anti gun control propaganda are wrong. In 2012, Chicago had 500 homicides, not over 1800 as this table states. Just a teeny bit exagerrated to make a point, isnt it? Plus, Chicago's gun control laws and absence of gun stores are completely neutralized by the much looser laws in the surrounding county and an hour drive away in Indiana. Guns are readily available for sale in the suburbs of Chicago, so the point about no gun stores in the city limits is meaningless.

How is it possible for any organization to get the number of homicides wrong by 1300 unless they were deliberately lying to make a false case and are actively seeking to deceive the American people? This is what happens when a group believes that the truth is unimportant to the debate and any means necessary is justified to achieve their aims. They are afraid that given the true facts, the American public may not agree with them. So they feel it is necessary to lie and manipulate public opinion to win the perception battle.

I think the issue of gun control laws and their effectiveness is a valid topic for analysis and debate. But when disinformation like this is desseminated by one side, it undercuts the credibility of their arguments.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-28/news/chi-chicago-2012-homicide-toll-20121228_1_latest-homicide-500th-homicide-tragic-number

Chicago police confirm 'tragic number' of 500 homicides

Chicago reached “a tragic number” today, according to Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy: Its homicide total for the year hit 500, the highest annual total since 2008.The city's latest...

Response by SSG Nathaniel Bendel made Feb 16 at 2016 7:09 PM

2016-02-16T19:09:36-05:00

I live in Northern Idaho where it's assumed everybody is carrying, everybody is very polite, and crime is low. I'm originally from California where it's almost impossible to get a concealed carry permit, people are all very rude, and violence and crime are very high. Studies aside, I've lived the differences. I understand that correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation but in the absence of other explanatory factors, this is the reason I've come to accept.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 18 at 2016 1:33 PM

2016-02-18T13:33:24-05:00

I think the better correlation is between poverty rates and crime if we are looking at root causes for crime rates....

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 15 at 2016 9:53 AM

2016-04-15T09:53:13-04:00

Sorry COL Mikel J. Burroughs But that global warming line gets you a booking!

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 15 at 2016 10:04 AM

2016-04-15T10:04:42-04:00

When it comes to gun violence, there is one simple unavoidable fact that those who oppose gun ownership seem to have a hard time grasping: No gun law is going to stop a criminal from obtaining a firearm.

You cannot expect that a person with intent to commit a criminal act is going to stop at firearms. Even if they don't intend to use it, having a firearm in the commission of a crime has the tendency to make people easier to control. Responsibly armed citizens are the counter to that. Pure and simple, in the name of self preservation, a person with criminal intent is going to be more likely to choose a different target if they are uncertain as to what they will encounter. That is why gun free zones scare the shit out of me. The criminal element doesn't have to worry about targeting those areas. Even a "legally carrying" citizen is a criminal if they are carrying in that area. That makes it an area ripe for targeting.

I do agree that there are some places that firearms should not be carried. In those areas, armed security should be such that one can feel safe without their firearm. Courts, and banks are the two that stand our immediately in my mind. The problem lately being that banks seem to be taking more of a pay now, file a claim later.

Response by SFC Wade W. made Apr 15 at 2016 10:25 AM

2016-04-15T10:25:12-04:00

So America ranks 11th in gun deaths but if we could remove Chicago, DC and some of the other cities with very strict gun laws we could be ranked much better. That is all I need to know about gun control. The United States could bans guns tomorrow but there would be no way to remove them from our streets and homes without starting the next civil war.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2016 10:28 AM

2016-04-15T10:28:14-04:00

If the statistics are accurate, this may only prove that in regions where property is less communal, spaces are more private, and the citizenry are "more free"...criminals may simply think it not worth the risk that some of those armed citizens may actually know how to use what they are toting.

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Apr 15 at 2016 10:45 AM

2016-04-15T10:45:58-04:00

It's a little more complicated than just simple straight across comparisons. A variety of crime control policies influence the amount and types of crimes in different cities. On top of that, there has actually been a significant drop in overall crime since the mid-80s which can't be attributed to any single policy. However, typically states with less restrictive gun laws do tend to have less violent crime.

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Apr 15 at 2016 10:51 AM

2016-04-15T10:51:35-04:00

Interesting stats!

Response by SGT Michael Thorin made Apr 15 at 2016 1:34 PM

2016-04-15T13:34:46-04:00

I am definitely pro 2nd Amendment.

Heck, I'm pro "All of the Constitution" for that matter.

Every veteran who has replied have hit the nail on the head, but I would like to piggyback on to CPT Jack Durish's statement.

My only fear of concealed carry (and this does not exceed my desire to keep it free as per the Constitution) is a person who buys a handgun, gets some ammo, loads it up and straps it on. No practice, no experience.

That person has never fired in a high stress environment, and there is a great deal of difference between shooting at a target standing still with a gentle breeze blowing over your shoulder and no one down range, and being in the middle of a gas station with an armed gunman wanting to throw lead, and there are innocent targets around.

I believe and have seen the statistics on gun related homicides in cities with strict firearms laws. But don't stop there, crime in general is up.

That being said, I believe it would be beneficial for anyone buying firearms for protection seek training to use it for that purpose.

Not mandatorily, but as a self ascribed desire to be proficient.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Apr 15 at 2016 1:49 PM

2016-04-15T13:49:39-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs a "chill society is a polite society" unless it also happens to be a 'gun free zone' aka victim-rich environment like Chi-squared town. How many crimes have been interrupted by responsible CC permit holders would be a valid question--Chicago: N=0; Houston: N=n+1.

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made Apr 16 at 2016 7:26 PM

2016-04-16T19:26:26-04:00

yes

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Aug 24 at 2018 7:17 PM

2018-08-24T19:17:01-04:00

Love it and the sarcasm at the end. Even if you do a more updated one the stats still follow your post.

Response by PFC Donnie Harold Harris made Jul 1 at 2019 8:26 AM

2019-07-01T08:26:48-04:00

All of us vets have lived in extreme conditions. All must admit it is the comradery of others we owe our own survival too. At best our mental health. The weather may be a factor. A look into the past can show this with Alexander the great to Hitler and his attack on the Soviet Union were repealed by the weather in its extreme forms. Just last week I was on the internet a father and small child had drowned in the river between our country and our southern neighbor, Mexico. The current and the amount of water did the final deed that other men set in place threw border restrictions... I myself almost froze to death in Korea 48 years ago. I still get uncontrollable life-threatening attacks from it with small temperature drops. Even when it is in the eighties. The weather and its condition can affect anything that is alive. Even gun violence.