Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?

2020-12-14T09:48:00-05:00

This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Dec 14 at 2020 9:49 AM

2020-12-14T09:49:12-05:00

The right answer is not to put yourself in those situations if possible. Seriously.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 9:50 AM

2020-12-14T09:50:55-05:00

hand whatever you are holding in your right hand to the CSM and salute......

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 10:11 AM

2020-12-14T10:11:20-05:00

A nod and appropriate greeting should suffice. good Morning Sir, Ma'am. Good morning SgtMaj. It's the CSMs job to preserve customs & military courtesy, but unless it's for Colors work takes priority. Texting does not count toward that, so it depends.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 14 at 2020 10:14 AM

2020-12-14T10:14:08-05:00

Stop carrying stuff in your right hand. Was I the only one taught that the right hand was unofficially forbidden from carrying stuff? =o)

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Dec 14 at 2020 10:29 AM

2020-12-14T10:29:20-05:00

You are on correct side of the equation SGT Private RallyPoint Member. Both AR 600-25 and TC 3-21.5 state that when both hands are occupied, like carrying an object, a salute is not required and a verbal exchange is appropriated. Don’t sweat it, you’ll find folks like that in all walks of life, taking formalities beyond reason. Not a biggie, you’ll survive! One more professional development lesson: what wrong looks like!

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Dec 14 at 2020 10:31 AM

2020-12-14T10:31:52-05:00

Technically, it sounds like you may have fallen within a gray area that is open to leadership interpretation. The regulation states "Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical." Thus, I can't fault the CSM.

The operative phrase is "as to make saluting impractical". The CSM may very well have deemed it practical for you to either a) move the mug to the other hand (I can carry a binder and a mug with one hand) or b) as an NCO, not even be walking around carrying a mug that you can't quickly move to the other hand.

So, I don't see where the CSM was wrong to correct you.

Response by SGT Bradley Dixon made Dec 14 at 2020 10:34 AM

2020-12-14T10:34:20-05:00

Been there before, however here is the BLUF.
If you can carry everything im your left hand do so, however IF you cannot, or unable to carry inly in the in the left hand, then you are not required to render salute to a superior. However you must still stop and render salute to the colors upon the proper bugle calls.

FINALLY, DO render verbal acknowledgment of when passing the superior. Walk with confidence and look at the reg. If they cannot stand that you know the rules then you can chose to fight it or just roll over.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 11:01 AM

2020-12-14T11:01:25-05:00

AR 600-25 is the right answer. If you legitimately can't clear your right hand to salute you don't but you acknowledge them. I've encountered officers when carrying things and I legitimately couldn't salute. Nobody got bitchy.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 11:04 AM

2020-12-14T11:04:27-05:00

You are a Sergeant and should be able to figure it out. Transfer the binder to under your left arm, your mug to your left hand, and then salute. As mentioned by Lt Col Charlie Brown, you should have situational awareness so that you are not in this situation.

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Dec 14 at 2020 11:58 AM

2020-12-14T11:58:25-05:00

In this scenario simply stop...set the thing in your right hand on the deck and render the proper custom and courtesy.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 12:03 PM

2020-12-14T12:03:03-05:00

As a butter bar in QM BOLC I saw another butter walking to class with his coffee in his right hand.

I mentioned to him he should probably switch hands.

No sooner did he blow me off we passed a USMC Captain and seeing the other butter was covered in gasoline the good Captain proceeded to light him up.

Similarly while still in BOLC I was walking out the building, and some old guy (coming from me that's saying a lot) was in a hurry to get in the building and both his arms were full (with his ASU still in the cleaners bags). Before I realized he was the School Commandant he had come and gone and nothing happened.

Regs or not, some folks seek out reasons to harp on things, others have actual things to do.

CSM's are a special breed. You should know that as a SGT by now.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 12:07 PM

2020-12-14T12:07:05-05:00

I got yelled at all the time in my last unit for carrying a coffee cup around.

I drink coffee all day, every day. I've done this since I was 14. And in my last unit, I gas to walk back and forth between 4 different buildings throughout the day in order to do my job. So I'd take whatever files I needed and my coffee cup. Normally, I'd keep my cup in my left and, files (or binder in the case) in my right, so that if I happened across an Officer, I just tucked the paperwork under my left arm, saluted, and went on my way. But I got yelled at repeatedly for carrying a coffee cup because "it looks like you think you run some shit around here, and you ain't shit, SPC."

Most of the time I just took it in stride, carried on my way, and disregarded it. They way I saw it was this: if they're nitpicking over little stuff, then I must be doing something right, for them to have to look for something silly to chew my ass for.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 12:35 PM

2020-12-14T12:35:43-05:00

BEST ANSWER: Avoid that situation.
Second best (and I’ve done this myself): Smile, nod and “Apologies sir, have a great day.”
99% of Os are reasonable people.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Dec 14 at 2020 1:17 PM

2020-12-14T13:17:15-05:00

Whatever CSM that was, is ate up. If you are walking and there are items carried in both hands you are not required to stop and put them down or even shift them to salute. If you have something in your right hand but nothing in your left then you are required to shift it to your left and salute. Other than that? Carry on.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Dec 14 at 2020 1:21 PM

2020-12-14T13:21:17-05:00

If you think you are going to find some kind of article or reg you will be able to slam down on a 1st Sgt or Sgt Maj like dominoes I will tell you know it's unrealistic and futile.

Also, you are not the first Servicemember who had something in both hands and had to figure it out so you could salute an officer.

The biggest issue you have is context. If service members were in the middle of work and found their hands full and unable to salute that's one thing. Like moving heavy equipment or something like that. Holding a binder and a drink wouldn't really be that considering you could hold both with one arm to salute.

The right answer is to Salute the appropriate folks and not get sky lined by the brass for avoidable shenanigan's.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Dec 14 at 2020 1:27 PM

2020-12-14T13:27:55-05:00

The CSM obviously thought to could switch stuff into your left hand, then you should have done it. Bottom line is don’t make it so you can be challenged.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 14 at 2020 1:46 PM

2020-12-14T13:46:58-05:00

IMO you should keep your right hand free when in an environment where saluting is required. Your description of the situation sounds weak. Could you have tucked the binder under your left arm and held the mug in your left hand? Maybe the mug should have stayed at your desk or kitchen? You’re an NCO. Be a good example!

Response by SPC Cathy Goessman made Dec 14 at 2020 2:34 PM

2020-12-14T14:34:24-05:00

Tuck the binder under your arm, switch the coffee to your left hand, and salute. If that isn't possible the CSM is incorrect. Greeting of the day is sufficient according to regs. But we all know some people enjoy their firm belief in "can add to but not take away" where they enforce BS.

Response by SSG Leonard Cartwright made Dec 14 at 2020 2:37 PM

2020-12-14T14:37:29-05:00

You have answered your own question.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 3:06 PM

2020-12-14T15:06:52-05:00

Sounds like the CSM was in a mood. CSM probably saw a unit out training instead of doing a mundane tasking and he took it out on you.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2020 3:17 PM

2020-12-14T15:17:14-05:00

The right answer would be don’t carry the mug of coffee. Or figure out how to carry that binder and your coffee in your left hand. You could have walked with the binder under your left arm and you’re mug in the left hand leaving free your right hand. Your an NCO don’t make excuses as to why you can’t adhere to proper customs and courtesies.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Dec 14 at 2020 4:31 PM

2020-12-14T16:31:14-05:00

Rule of thumb: Keep Your Right Hand Empty. Binder tucked under left arm and coffee in left hand.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 14 at 2020 4:41 PM

2020-12-14T16:41:35-05:00

1. Nobody told you to walk around with a mug in your hand, 2, If you had the mug in your left hand, you could have tucked the binder under your left arm and saluted. 3. What make you think you are special? The part of the AR you are quoting mainly pertains to folks actively involved in moving heavy items.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Dec 14 at 2020 6:20 PM

2020-12-14T18:20:39-05:00

Your shouldn’t be walking while smoking or drinking

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Dec 14 at 2020 6:24 PM

2020-12-14T18:24:40-05:00

What you do is act like you're making a big effort to make your hand available, apologize while doing this. Any good Officer worth his weight will tell you not to worry about it and let you go about your doing, thus making the grumpy old CSM happy too.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2020 5:18 AM

2020-12-15T05:18:22-05:00

The regulation does state that you are not required to salute when your hands are occupied. But the spirt of the rule centers around situations like carrying boxes or equipment, or even coming out of the px with several bags.

When you are not giving a salure because you are carrying a mug, the perception is that you care more about the mug then the courtesy.

If you find yourself in this situation often, try tucking the binder under your left arm, or carry a backpack.

Response by PO1 Richard Cormier made Dec 15 at 2020 12:28 PM

2020-12-15T12:28:38-05:00

You had to be told TWICE? Wow.

Response by SFC Gary Harney made Dec 15 at 2020 12:36 PM

2020-12-15T12:36:43-05:00

Has the Army lost the art of juggling. I am sorry to say, if a coffee mug and a binder have you stumped. How in the world are you going to juggle(handle) 5, 10, 30, 60 plus troops in the future.

Response by MSgt Walter Clack made Dec 15 at 2020 12:53 PM

2020-12-15T12:53:41-05:00

In response to your original question.
Long answer: Probably
Short answer: Yes
Proper rendering of respect to rank is more important than your mug of whatever.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Dec 15 at 2020 1:26 PM

2020-12-15T13:26:17-05:00

AR 670-1 , 3-6(d) says no eating drinking smoking or cell phone use while walking in uniform

Response by SPC Paul Hayward made Dec 15 at 2020 1:48 PM

2020-12-15T13:48:29-05:00

transfer everything into your left hand and render a salute, if it's not possible give the courtesy of a good morning/afternoon/evening/day to the officer and continue on your way, you do not have to drop everything and salute, but you do, if possible, transfer items to your left hand and render the salute

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made Dec 15 at 2020 1:51 PM

2020-12-15T13:51:52-05:00

Heres an idea, and just my opinion, but when i was in 98-05, i have seen leadership wear a back pack, why not put the binder in a back pack so your right hand will be free. You wont be in violation of anything, as i understand it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2020 3:15 PM

2020-12-15T15:15:38-05:00

I think this an example of rules vs military culture. I think what got you corrected was the fact that you weren’t carrying a two-handed object. Next time shift the item to your left and salute. If you are carrying a box that requires two hands or have an injured arm, just say the greeting of the day. You will get lit up if you have a coffee cup in your right and a binder in your other.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 15 at 2020 5:16 PM

2020-12-15T17:16:53-05:00

I started my military career in the Army. Maybe they don't teach this anymore, but I was taught in boot camp to never to carry anything in my right hand.

Since my job requires me to be armed while on duty, my right hand (my gun hand) is always free.

Response by SPC John Coleman made Dec 15 at 2020 5:56 PM

2020-12-15T17:56:57-05:00

Mug isn’t important here, hold the binder and mug in your left hand.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2020 12:08 PM

2020-12-16T12:08:29-05:00

In my experience the on paper answer doesn't always satisfy people who are looking for errors or deficiencies. I've found it easier to just salute someone and while you're shuffling your belongings they'll tell you no need to salute.

Response by Capt Nate Le made Dec 17 at 2020 1:40 AM

2020-12-17T01:40:09-05:00

When I was enlisted I would make it a habit to not carry things with my right hand, or if necessary, I would move items over to my left hand. Now that I’ve crossed over, I could care less if someone doesn’t render a salute because they’re holding something in both hands. The CSM doesn’t care about you, but he does care that the Capt saw that he cared.

Response by PFC David Cox made Dec 17 at 2020 9:52 AM

2020-12-17T09:52:06-05:00

This reminds me of when I was stationed in Verona, Italy and was reading the bulletin board outside of the library in a walk-through area (a roof overhead) when I heard a voice say "don't you salute officers soldier?" I turned around and standing in front of me was a 2nd lieutenant. Never saw him nor heard him come up and there was no one else around for 50 yards. I saluted without saying anything and he left. He was around 5'2" tall so I assumed he had some respect issues.

Response by PO1 Chip Jacques made Dec 17 at 2020 3:54 PM

2020-12-17T15:54:28-05:00

absolutely, reminds me of the time that i was going to medical, outside as i was walking towads the door a Navy Commander stopped me in my tracks. i had saluted, but the salute wasnt his problem as he laid hands on me. i was stationed on the USS Comstock LSD-45, he was about to blow a gasket and told me to hand him my cover (Hat). he then ranted that he was a medical Doctor and thought i was clowning around since he stated that 45 was the Medical number for actual L>S>D>. he said that the Navy would have never named the ship with that Number. i was beaming that i knew better. He ate crow and carried on.

Response by SSgt Randall Matheny made Dec 17 at 2020 5:01 PM

2020-12-17T17:01:38-05:00

It logically depends on what you are carrying. In your case, carry your mug in your left hand, tuck the binder under your left arm and render a salute. If you are carrying something that cannot be safely shifted, or that would be unsafe to lay aside, you need not salute. Most officers will tell you, or signal you, not to salute if they see such a situation. Common sense must prevail or some people might start carrying feathers in each hand just to avoid saluting.

Response by PO2 Paul Dempsey made Dec 17 at 2020 9:14 PM

2020-12-17T21:14:44-05:00

Stop pushing it. If you can't figure out how to carry your mug and tuck your binder under your left arm pit not sure I want you next to me. Or are your trying to be an ass. Either way keep your right hand free outside if you'll be running into O's.

Response by SSgt Brian Gray made Dec 18 at 2020 12:04 AM

2020-12-18T00:04:06-05:00

You are correct to simply acknowledge the officer and you DO NOT need to render a hand salute.

Response by 1SG Stephen Dalton made Dec 18 at 2020 12:06 AM

2020-12-18T00:06:53-05:00

AR 600-25, of course! You can't even salute if you are eating a BK Whopper. Everyone knows, "It takes two hands to handle a Whopper"!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2020 1:42 PM

2020-12-18T13:42:42-05:00

If it was one of those things that caught you off guard then I can see the point but honestly no matter what my rule of thumb is that if I can spot an officer rank from about 15-20 feet “being aware of your surroundings” and am carrying things in my hands I’ll try to move all items to left hand to issue a salute. If your hands are full of like heavy objects like ammo cans or like weapon parts just issue treating of the day or I think it also depends on who they are and if you know them.. ie PL, CO, ect or it’s some random full bird walking around with BDE CSM. If that was the case I’d prob just stop, set my things down go to attention and salute. Once they rendered it back and passed pick up my shit and move on. It’s about showing respect and not trying to be coy or lazy and having situational awareness.

Response by 1LT Bill Pieczara made Dec 18 at 2020 3:28 PM

2020-12-18T15:28:51-05:00

As 1sLt Lieutenant who went through the enlisted ranks, I believe a salute is expected and due the superior. Put the carried items aside or lower them to the floor/ground and salute. It is just individuals in the Armed Service do. It is what makes us seperate from civilian poulation!

Response by SSG Lynn Skocdopole made Dec 18 at 2020 4:30 PM

2020-12-18T16:30:48-05:00

coffee or another beverage outdoors one salutes coming to attention, dropping binder, switching hands with the coffee container, and salute ...done! when they pass pick up the binder tuck it under your left arm and move out smartly! did I say to switch the coffee over?! NO!

Response by 1SG Mitchell Smith made Dec 18 at 2020 8:01 PM

2020-12-18T20:01:35-05:00

Easy, choose your battles. Now you're right by regulation...you won...or did you?...if it doesn't cause harm or death follow orders. No big deal to stop what your doing to render a salute the officer would probably have told you to carry on soldier.

Again, choose your battles SGT - you still have a long way to go and I'm speaking with 26 years of service. I could have told a many leaders to KMA...but I chose my battles. Keep pushin - don't let your dingle dangle dingle in the dirt...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2020 8:42 PM

2020-12-18T20:42:36-05:00

Give them AR 600-25. Apologize politely. You are not required to give them a greeting of the day per the same AR, although it is encouraged. If your hands are full and it is impractical then you are not in the wrong. Period. If it was a binder and a coffee cup that could easily be carried in one arm. Just do it and get it over with. Most importantly, tell the CPT that you’ve had sex with 4 fat women in your life, and that his wife was 3 of them.

Response by SCPO Frank Alvar made Dec 18 at 2020 8:58 PM

2020-12-18T20:58:34-05:00

Aren't the regs clear on this? You acknowledge the officer and carry on with your day. The officer should know the regs as well.
As as far as not carrying anything in your right hand. Well, most people are right handed so maybe we should salute with the left instead.

Response by 1SG Michael Hume made Dec 19 at 2020 2:29 AM

2020-12-19T02:29:31-05:00

When in doubt always refer to the regs. But as a subordinate soldier you should attempt to always be respectful of the rank, ie... move coffee mug to left hand and binder under the left arm and render the salute. You not only show respect but the strength of your character and it will come back to you favorably down the road.

Response by 1LT Bill Pieczara made Dec 19 at 2020 8:10 AM

2020-12-19T08:10:16-05:00

I believe it is military protocol to render a salute to the officer. Take necessary steps to free you right hand and perform the salute. We as soldiers all had to learn . This is not a difficult task.
1Lt William J Pieczara (USAR ret)

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Dec 19 at 2020 8:58 AM

2020-12-19T08:58:43-05:00

CSM kissing ass

Response by Bill Husztek made Dec 19 at 2020 12:49 PM

2020-12-19T12:49:20-05:00

You are too cute by half!
The fact that you even know the regulation about exceptions is more damning than your lame excuse.
The officer has earned your respect, whether you want to give it or not.
You appear to have conveniently occupied your hands in order to diminish the respect you owe superiors. Get with the program or leave.

Response by Bill Husztek made Dec 19 at 2020 12:51 PM

2020-12-19T12:51:38-05:00

You are too cute by half!
The fact that you even know the regulation about exceptions is more damning than your lame excuses. If I accepted it I'd have to believe you can't walk and chew gum at the same time. No you planned it.
The officer has earned your respect, whether you want to give it or not.
You appear to have conveniently occupied your hands in order to diminish the respect you owe superiors. Get with the program or leave.

Response by SGT Claudio Razzetti made Dec 20 at 2020 7:32 AM

2020-12-20T07:32:23-05:00

Follow the regs ,,

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2020 10:27 AM

2020-12-20T10:27:17-05:00

No, as long as both hands are occupied (and the right hand cannot be freed up) render the proper greeting of the day.

Response by PO3 Wesley Shnaekel made Dec 20 at 2020 4:28 PM

2020-12-20T16:28:15-05:00

I don’t know if anyone else already threw this idea out there, but maybe take and use a lesson from the E-4 mafia on this one and create a new option. Provided there are no regs prohibiting, invest in an in-reg courier bag and sling that shit over your shoulder. If you’re running binders/folders/paperwork back and forth between buildings all day, it might be reassuring to know you aren’t going to lose anything accidentally to wind/water/carelessness. And frees up your left hand for your mug. Right hand is free, so render salute and carry on smartly about your day, amirite?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2020 7:37 PM

2020-12-20T19:37:10-05:00

The right thing to do is just acknowledge people. I’ve never in my career been focused on rank when it comes to these situations. The most important thing is to always do what’s humanly possible and during this situation is give the proper greeting of the day no matter what rank they are.
Even when not in uniform I always acknowledge people and you wouldn’t believe what kind of doors it can open for you. Common curtesy is an uncommon virtue in today’s world.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2020 7:52 PM

2020-12-20T19:52:28-05:00

Funny story...
While at OCS they have their own set of OCS Land Rules you follow. So one day showing up to the Barracks I was carrying a ton of crap and out of nowhere a TAC Officer walks around the corner, I easily could’ve gotten away with announcing The First Five Words with the proper greeting of the day since I had a ton of stuff on my back and in my hands. But being the jackass inside I just threw all my shit to the ground and screamed the First Five Words and proper greeting of the day with a salute and that TAC Officer stopped and couldn’t stop laughing while saluting me back. Then he told me to get the hell outta of there! He never messed with me again throughout OCS, I guess he knew That I knew how to play games too. Haha

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Dec 20 at 2020 9:35 PM

2020-12-20T21:35:14-05:00

It depends on what you are carrying that occupies both hands. If you are carrying a bulky container or something that definitely requires both hands to transport, the answer would be no. In the circumstance that you describe, however, you should have transferred your coffee mug to your left hand while tucking the binder under your arm and thereby, you would have had your right hand free to render a salute. Had you been one of my subordinates, you would have been admonished to use better judgement from that moment on.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Dec 21 at 2020 3:23 AM

2020-12-21T03:23:33-05:00

Yes

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Dec 21 at 2020 4:31 AM

2020-12-21T04:31:39-05:00

no . stand or sit at attention . basic instruction . csm wrong, abuse of authority . but then the mug could be construed as out of uniform .

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Dec 21 at 2020 4:34 AM

2020-12-21T04:34:15-05:00

no . stand or sit at attention . basic instruction . csm is abusing power . but then cup in hand may be construed as out of uniform (stretching it) .

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2020 7:11 AM

2020-12-21T07:11:33-05:00

Could you have held both for a second with your left arm? Binder under arm and mug on hand.

I’ve dropped stuff before to salute someone, or walked far far away

Response by LCpl Mark Hyland made Dec 23 at 2020 3:08 PM

2020-12-23T15:08:44-05:00

LOL, I remember times when we tried to avoid saluting, crossing the street, ducking indoors, having hands full, etc. Some officers would want to make an example of each situation and other officers had higher higher goals or concerns. I always tried to error on the side of intent and tried not to appear like I was avoiding honoring my superior officers and appreciated when others below my rank gave me respect.

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Dec 24 at 2020 3:12 PM

2020-12-24T15:12:38-05:00

Back in my day, we were not allowed to walk outside with an open food or beverage container. No open soda cans or coffee mugs. No walking around with a lit cigarette. And if you had items in both hands, you transitioned it all to your left hand, or put it down, and rendered a proper salute when necessary. Don't know what the Jarhead regs are now. We weren't allowed to wear sateens or cammies out in town. Now I understand they're allowed. Guess all the different services have different guidelines.

Response by SGT George Duncan made Jan 2 at 2021 1:40 PM

2021-01-02T13:40:14-05:00

depends what kind of an ass the officer is?

Response by MSgt Dale Johnson made Jan 3 at 2021 10:34 AM

2021-01-03T10:34:50-05:00

Seems from your post you like to put yourself into the position where you can rely on AR600-25. Second time reprimanded and how many times were you not reprimanded? Do you have some physical problem incapacitating your left arm? Solution, binder under left arm, precious mug in left hand,,,No Problem, No Reprimand. In 24 years on active duty, I don't think I have ever been in a situation where I could not render proper respect to an officer, was smarter than that.

Response by Sgt Ed Beal made Jan 4 at 2021 9:11 AM

2021-01-04T09:11:23-05:00

I was on crutches for my last 2 years in I still would stop and offer a salute most officers would offer a comment and tell me not to, but I still made the attempt, it sounds like you were looking for a way out and it was obvious and ghats why you got the well deserved reprimand.

Response by SFC Michael Mott made Jan 5 at 2021 7:21 PM

2021-01-05T19:21:33-05:00

Too easy...never occupy your right hand when walking in uniform. Duh

Response by SFC Michael Mott made Jan 5 at 2021 7:23 PM

2021-01-05T19:23:19-05:00

Too easy...Never occupy your right hand when walking in uniform. Duh

Response by Lt Col David Myers made Jan 7 at 2021 8:44 AM

2021-01-07T08:44:10-05:00

You are not required to render a salute, but you are expected to render a verbal greeting to the officer as you pass.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jan 9 at 2021 3:48 PM

2021-01-09T15:48:25-05:00

Response by CPL Barrie D Davey made Jan 12 at 2021 5:35 PM

2021-01-12T17:35:48-05:00

Pass whatever you are carrying over to the Officer then Salute him after taking back control of your burden he should then return the salute.

Would you hold this item while I salute you Sir.

We here are the only British Servicemen who salute with our left hands, (once a year) 50% of us use the left hand the other 50% salute with their right. It has nothing to do with dogs.

Oh and we have been doing it since 1692 Yes that is correct 1692.

Who are we and why do we do it.

Response by SPC Matthew Springett made Jan 19 at 2021 5:47 PM

2021-01-19T17:47:12-05:00

In my humble opinion, you should do your best to make your right arm unoccupied for the purpose of a solute. If you're holding a box however or something that is unable to Allow you to render a salute you at least have to acknowledge the officer with a good morning sir or ma'am. Or something to that effect. I haven't seen anywhere in the Regulations that talk about this .

Response by SFC Willie Morgan made Jan 20 at 2021 6:24 PM

2021-01-20T18:24:04-05:00

Perhaps you should have stopped. held the binder in a way where you could have supported the mug and then gave a salute.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2021 9:23 PM

2021-01-22T21:23:18-05:00

A binder and a mug...Yes you Salute. Mug to left hand and binder under left Arm...Salute with right and grab Binder with right hand when done. So easy a Caveman can do it. Quit being a pussy because CSM is correct. There is times you don't have to salute but Ive even managed it carrying a 204 pound projectile on one shoulder.

Response by MSgt Janice Trojan made Jan 28 at 2021 11:51 PM

2021-01-28T23:51:42-05:00

Ha, Ha my favorite question. I appreciate a salute. But If I had a load in my hands-glad an officer understood, I had a load. I have a friend an 85 year old Korean war vet that he and I chat about salutes. He was a radio operator. As enlisted, I appreciated saluting an officer. A few officers, a salute was their ego-I understood that too. I appreciate discipline-the world needs to appreciate that too. Being Air Force, mostly I had great officer's no egos. I salute the question!

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2021 7:35 AM

2021-01-29T07:35:31-05:00

Best thing to do is avoid carrying items in both hands. Chicken-wing that binder and grip the mug in the left hand. Problem solved.

Response by SPC Harry Pitt made Jan 29 at 2021 10:26 AM

2021-01-29T10:26:40-05:00

The salute is intended to be a dignified military greeting, not a test of manual dexterity. Therefore, you aren’t required to give a salute when encumbered (that is when both hands are full), but you should give a verbal greeting. I had a Special Forces second lieutenant pull that shit on me. I had just gotten home from Nam and was walking out of the bank, counting my money and looking down, when this airhead demand that I salute. I didn't see him until he said something,

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2021 7:31 PM

2021-01-29T19:31:22-05:00

Common sense approach: if you carrying something that requires both hands to carry, such as equipment etc and it is unsafe to stop and salute, acknowledge the officer and carry on in a safe manner. No need to cause injury or unsafe condition to salute. However if you carrying something that would not cause an unsafe condition and can be safely carried in the left hand, do so smartly and render a salute.

Response by Bill Clancy made Jan 30 at 2021 5:40 PM

2021-01-30T17:40:11-05:00

I once got reprimanded for not saluting an officer, because he was carrying a large box with both hands outside the commissary. I was under the impression that if they couldn't return the salute, we shouldn't render it. Never did that again...

Response by SSgt Brian Gray made Jan 30 at 2021 11:59 PM

2021-01-30T23:59:33-05:00

I am reminded of a incident that happened at McChord AFB. A Airman was coming out of the PX with his 9 month pregnant wife. He had two bags of items along with a box under each arm. The commanding 2 star was walking towards them. She knew her husband couldn't salute so she walked up to the 2 star and snapped off a salute like she had just graduated from OCS. The 2 star returned her salute and without even breaking stride told her to," Suck in her gut!".

Response by CPL Barrie D Davey made Jan 31 at 2021 3:27 AM

2021-01-31T03:27:28-05:00

In the British Army, rendering a Smart eyes Right or left, is a salute on it's own.

Still no takers why we salute with our left hand once a year since 1692, come on lads.

Response by SPC Russ Bolton made Jan 31 at 2021 6:44 AM

2021-01-31T06:44:28-05:00

I just gave the officer the greeting of the day.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Jan 31 at 2021 9:25 AM

2021-01-31T09:25:45-05:00

A junior who cannot salute should give a sharp MORNING, SIR. An officer should accept this.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2021 12:08 PM

2021-01-31T12:08:29-05:00

If you can practically free one hand, do that and salute. If not, just give the greeting of the day.

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made Jan 31 at 2021 4:28 PM

2021-01-31T16:28:55-05:00

The 100% correct answer, is no, just as if an officer had his/her hands full, they would not be required to return a salute.

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Jan 31 at 2021 5:29 PM

2021-01-31T17:29:38-05:00

No, you are not required to salute if both hands are full. You ARE required to acknowledge the Officer. You can fulfill this requirement by simply saying “Good day Sir, Ma’am” and drive on with the day.

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Jan 31 at 2021 6:02 PM

2021-01-31T18:02:05-05:00

Usually a "by your leave" will suffice unless the officer is a nugget then all bets are off.

Response by SFC Kathy Pepper made Jan 31 at 2021 6:41 PM

2021-01-31T18:41:04-05:00

Years ago, I was walking downstairs outside my building while carrying a stack of books in my left arm and holding the handrail with my right hand. A lieutenant was standing at the bottom, and my first thought was that he was allowing me to descend before walking up himself. Nope. He was standing there waiting for me to render my hand salute (which I did once I got off the steps), and scolded me for not saluting sooner. I pointed out that I was holding onto the handrail for safety, and he said I should have taken my hand off to salute. So, I patronizingly asked him if he wanted me to risk my safety in order to salute. He asked for my unit, and went to see my First Sergeant. The first words out of 1SG's mouth: “What did SGT Pepper do this time?” That blew the wind out of the lieutenant’s sails. Funnily enough, the LT and I became friends later (and he had the opportunity to ask: “What did SGT Pepper do this time?”).

To answer your question: can you balance the mug on top of the binder? It doesn't matter what AR 600-25 states; the CSM outranks you by so much that he wins. Most people won't get angry as long as you make some effort.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jan 31 at 2021 7:34 PM

2021-01-31T19:34:48-05:00

The short answer is no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE5EE335khs

Salute The Marines - Joe Biden Gets Confused.. (Earpiece Fail)

Salute The Marines - Joe Biden Gets Confused.. (Earpiece Fail)While walking past the marines, Joe Biden does something very odd. How do you think this happen...

Response by Cpl Roger Cortez made Feb 1 at 2021 12:12 AM

2021-02-01T00:12:32-05:00

In the Marine Corps we were required to stop, drop what one was doing stand at attention and salute. If you were walking past an officer and both hands were occupied some Marines at the time would greet the officer and if he saw the situation he would more times than often say, "as you were" which meant continue as your were no need for a salute. If you were occupied as a group in a work activity and an officer came upon you the first Marine to see the officer calls for Attention! All snap to attention and the senior NCO will salute for the group. If you do not recognize his presence he'll usually state, "as you were" and no salute is rendered. Now this was the 'ol Corps back in the '60's. It may not be this way now. But knowing the Corps, tradition is a big thing. Semper Fi all.......

Response by Sgt Steven Baldwin made Feb 1 at 2021 2:27 AM

2021-02-01T02:27:48-05:00

It is really an elementary answer. We follow the chain of command for good reasons, senior NCO's to basics, may not "like" saluting but respect the rank and traditions! 1st time could be an oversight, 2nd time was a choice! If you do not have pride in the uniform you wear, seek life elsewhere!

Response by MSG Clyde Mills made Feb 1 at 2021 6:54 AM

2021-02-01T06:54:45-05:00

This is plainly a power move by the CSM, the Regulation plainly states that if both your hands are occupied and you walk past an Officer you still greet them by rank or saying a greeting of Good morning Sir /ma'am and continue on your way. If either the CSM or the Officer say's anything to you, their out of line and you should tell them in a respectful manner of the Regulations regarding Saluting of an Officer.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2021 8:13 AM

2021-02-01T08:13:48-05:00

As a commissioned officer, I used common sense about saluting. Soldiers are human beings and they aren't always ready to salute when they should. Not all CSMs are wise. This one sounds like a fool. That you greeted the captain would have satisfied me. I used to hold people accountable when it was obvious they were disrespecting the rank, but let slide honest mistakes. But I also left my right hand unoccupied while in uniform because I always felt it my duty to return any salute rendered to my rank.

Response by PFC Raymond Meek made Feb 1 at 2021 10:21 AM

2021-02-01T10:21:35-05:00

At least in the sea services there is no saluting indoors unless under conditions requiring you to wear headgear.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Feb 1 at 2021 10:40 AM

2021-02-01T10:40:51-05:00

Second time? The adage that comes to mind is, "Burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice, shame on ME."

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Feb 1 at 2021 10:48 PM

2021-02-01T22:48:35-05:00

A salute is a sign of respect, but a Good Morning Sir can also be. I got braced and read the riot act for not saluting a 2nd Lt. It was pointed out that a Sgt was suppose to salute officers, my boots were not shined, my uniform was wrinkled and not ironed. I was going to be written up and reported to my CO. About that time Cpt Mac came out of Bn HC and ask what was going on. The Lt saluted him and that started the tirade. Told him if he ever saluted him again he would be brought up on charges. On our compound no one ever saluted an officer unless they wanted them shot. Viet Nam was not a real safe place and officers were the first to be shot if possible. Before going on R&R we were reminded to follow military customs and once we hit Saigon to salute.

Response by SPC George Edwards made Feb 2 at 2021 9:19 PM

2021-02-02T21:19:19-05:00

I don't know about the new army as I was a member in the 50s & 60s, but had I not saluted, I'd be digging a hole six by six.

Response by Sgt Warren Serkin made Feb 6 at 2021 5:54 PM

2021-02-06T17:54:15-05:00

I was in San Antonio at Lackland AFB and, while walking over to the dispensary, I happened on a captain who was loading something into his trunk (with his head in the trunk). Unsure of the protocol, I did salute him. He returned the salute with his head still in trunk. Better safe than sorry

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2021 11:15 PM

2021-02-06T23:15:43-05:00

When I was a battery commander, I confused a Private Second Class when I gave him a poopy face for not saluting me. He said he thought he didn't have to salute because he had a cigarette in his hand. I was amused but PV2 Poopy's and my First Sergeant was not. Top told him ever-so-nicely to transfer the cigarette to his left hand, or drop it, next time.

Response by SGT Michael Hamrac, MBA, MRP, GRI, REALTOR® made Feb 8 at 2021 6:28 AM

2021-02-08T06:28:58-05:00

Good morning, afternoon or evening sir...while moving very quickly. Do not flinch or hesitate. No worries.

Response by PO3 Robert Buckels made Feb 8 at 2021 11:59 AM

2021-02-08T11:59:21-05:00

It sounds like you could have put the binder under you left arm and taken the mug in your left hand leaving your right arm and hand free to render the salute. My understanding is if your arms and hands are full that you must then pause walking and stand aside at as much in the attention stance as possible. maybe even offer and apology to the ranking officer of your inability to salute or if they are engaged in conversation with the other person, remain quiet and wait for them to pass.
You probably messed up when you greeted them. you may have interrupted a conversation and brought attention to yourself.

Response by SSG Jack Lewis made Feb 8 at 2021 4:58 PM

2021-02-08T16:58:58-05:00

When I was in, if I had a heavy load in both hands, I would just nod to officers and greet them respectfully.

But if you can't hold a binder and a coffee mug in one hand long enough to render a hand salute, maybe office hallways are too physically challenging for your military might.

Maybe you should look for a transfer into Space Force. In zero gravity, it won't matter when you drop all your stuff.

"Guardians Float the Way, ma'am!"

Response by SPC David Birch made Feb 8 at 2021 6:00 PM

2021-02-08T18:00:14-05:00

If they are not cumbersome items like a binder and a mug then you should adjust them both to your left arm or put them down and salute. Making no effort at all is clear disrespect.

Response by SPC James McLaughlin made Feb 8 at 2021 10:17 PM

2021-02-08T22:17:41-05:00

Absolutely not. If both your hands are occupied, acknowledge the officer and give the greeting of the day.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2021 6:51 AM

2021-02-09T06:51:15-05:00

There is a common sense approach from both sides. If you are carrying objects in both hands that it makes sense to transfer all the items to your left and salute, then that it what should be done. If it doesn’t make sense,... like holding a book in one hand and a mug in the other ( because a spill is likely) then the officer should have enough sense to understand this. Im going to call out the CSM and CPT as wrong in this situation. Sounds like they are hung up on themselves and need to check their egos. The common sense approach only works if both parties have common sense. I will place money that the CSM and CPT would not put everything down to salute a higher ranking officer,.... you need to handle this one carefully though, if the juice worth the squeeze? Just know that there are crappy leaders that play stupid games like this. Most aren’t like this.

Response by LCpl Sandy Moran made Feb 9 at 2021 11:08 AM

2021-02-09T11:08:05-05:00

Am I missing something? I thought you weren't suppose to walk around with a coffee cup outside anyway, it's like walking with a cigarette. At least that's what I was told. And as far as inside, not sure? But leaving the cup and going back later for it. Or finishing it first might be a good idea. Either way leaving right hand free. Now as far as the dress down, uncalled for unless brownie points were in order? Just my thought.

Response by CPO Boyd Garrett made Feb 9 at 2021 11:58 AM

2021-02-09T11:58:31-05:00

I was at my first training command right out of boot camp back when dinosaurs roamed the land. The Army post had all services there for training. As a Seaman Apprentice (E-2), I was on casual duty waiting for my class to start. One day I was carrying a box of the long, fluorescent tubes from one building to another and passed an Army Captain. Since I was carrying the box with my right arm, I saluted with my left hand. The Captain returned my salute, but a nearby Army SFC saw what happened and steamed up to ream me out. Just as he got to me, he stopped himself when he remembered that Sailors can salute with their left hands. He started muttering profanities and stormed off.

Response by SGT Rick Parent made Feb 9 at 2021 6:52 PM

2021-02-09T18:52:42-05:00

I passed a General, 4 star, in Vietnam and said good mornig Sir. He replied good morning soldier with a friendly smile and we both went about our business.

Response by PO3 Patrick Whited made Feb 9 at 2021 8:15 PM

2021-02-09T20:15:37-05:00

I would have done what I was told. DROP the coffee and binder right there, render a salute, shout out SIR, YES SIR! to let them know deep in their hearts what assholes you believe them to be. When I was onboard the USS Oklahoma City, CLG-5, I was taking a dump around midnight or so, in a stall on the back row of stalls. No doors on these stalls, mind you. So.. I'm trying to drop a mud dog and I hear footsteps coming near. I see movement, and there's an ensign looking in at me. I said loudly, "EXCUSE ME FOR NOT COMING TO ATTENTION, SIR!" He turned to walk away and said "Carry on.." I said loudly, "SIR, YES SIR!" and heard a little laugh as he walked out..

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Feb 9 at 2021 10:29 PM

2021-02-09T22:29:03-05:00

That's life.
Put one on the floor methodically ,free your saluting hand ,perform your duty and drive on.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Feb 21 at 2021 5:06 PM

2021-02-21T17:06:45-05:00

If both your hands are full, you greet the officer with "By your leave, sir". That being said, you really should have ditched the coffee mug, and saluted the man.

Response by CPL J Sannizzaro made Feb 22 at 2021 6:33 PM

2021-02-22T18:33:56-05:00

Do your best to keep a hand free and not get into this situation. Aside from that yes no UCMJ recourse but is this why you want you chain of command to remember you?

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Feb 25 at 2021 9:10 AM

2021-02-25T09:10:39-05:00

BS.... SGT

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 6:21 PM

2021-03-02T18:21:39-05:00

It is completely proper based on customs and courtesies, to give only a verbal greeting when both hands are occupied, especially in the performance of your duty. Obviously, discretion should be utilized, say if approached by a General or commander at the Battalion or Wing level command or higher.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2021 1:42 PM

2021-03-05T13:42:44-05:00

Drink your coffee at the office and render the salute. No excuses Sgt set the example and stop trying to make an excuse for not doing what you are supposed to be doing from the get go. Army Strong

Response by PFC Martin Potashner made Mar 6 at 2021 2:28 PM

2021-03-06T14:28:28-05:00

Well I was the company co driver I never saluted every time .

Response by Sgt Dennis Doty made Mar 6 at 2021 10:40 PM

2021-03-06T22:40:18-05:00

Contrary to popular opinion, CSMs are not quite infallible. However, telling them so is definitely a mortal sin. Grin and bear it. I suspect there was some underlying and undisclosed motive. Either the CSM was looking for an excuse to chew on you, or he was trying too hard to impress the Captain and probably failed. If it happened again, I would assume that it was personal and call him out on what the reg actually says...respectfully, but in a clear voice loud enough for the Captain to hear.

Response by PO2 Alexander Gonzalez made Mar 7 at 2021 9:59 AM

2021-03-07T09:59:50-05:00

You don't drop anything to salute hence the regulations allowing a verbal. Your CSM needs to worry about bigger better things. Stupid shit like that is a reminder of why I got out when I miss active duty.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Mar 7 at 2021 10:03 AM

2021-03-07T10:03:12-05:00

Personally i believe there is more to the story than is being told here. 1ST. Read what you posted again like the quote from AR 600-25.
Now go complain to the CSM let me know when you do this because i want to watch while the CSM First verbally rips into you for your classic try to not render a Salute. Then as part of your retrain has you stand in front of post HQ with your little book in one hand and the Mug in the other.
Just how big of a binder was this and how big is the mug?, Where were you going and why did you need the binder and the Mug? Was the binder a Copy of AR 600-25 so you could back up your dumb plan that has been tried by maybe a Million Soldiers and they keep getting caught and retrained.
Cradle the binder in the palm of your left hand and hold your Mug with the fingers of your left hand(1 finger through the handle and your thumb on the rim works the best. Then when you get the time look at all the AR's again and find some thing original to try and get your bragging rights. This is beneath you and typical e-4 mafia stunt. JMT

Response by PO1 Steven Ewing made Mar 7 at 2021 10:24 AM

2021-03-07T10:24:55-05:00

It could just be me, but if your coffee (or whatever is in the mug) is more important than your evaluations and future advancement, then I suggest keep doing what you're doing...otherwise I think you might want to come up with a new plan for carrying that mug in the presence (or possible presence) of Officers. .

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 11:32 AM

2021-03-07T11:32:31-05:00

"Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?"
In a legitimate situation, no.
However, you mentioned carrying a mug … were you walking outside, in uniform, and drinking coffee? I thought that in and of itself was against regs. (Drinking, smoking, etc) Those who know better please speak up.
And to define "legitimate situation": in my mind, it's carrying items necessary to accomplish some legally-sanctioned military activity.

Response by SP5 James Elmore made Mar 7 at 2021 10:40 PM

2021-03-07T22:40:01-05:00

Really - never had a situation where I couldn’t carry a binder under my arm and a coffee cup in the other. It was NOT impractical for you to honor regular military courtesy. Had it been impractical to salute, I suspect an appropriate nod and greeting would have been enough.

Response by SSG Timothy Lanham made Mar 8 at 2021 12:20 AM

2021-03-08T00:20:48-05:00

There was a 2LT in the battalion that had a big thing about being saluted. I was carrying a box one time that required the use of both hands. Came across the Lt and gave him a greeting. His response was soldier you are required to salute an officer. So I stopped walking and put the box down. Stood up and came to attention and saluted him. Sorry bastard did not even return the salute at that time.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Mar 8 at 2021 9:07 AM

2021-03-08T09:07:44-05:00

The right answer depends on the attitude of the officer. I would hope that most would be happy with a "Good day Sir" and a nod, in that kind of situation, but there are sticklers out there. I'm of Prussian decent but I can be lenient and understanding. I certainly don't expect a snappy salute while you have one hand occupied and a cup of hot coffee in your hand. That could mess up things on both sides, and add a cleaning bill. MY answer would have been; "That's OK troop, carry on." (Assuming it was a EM, not an OCS candidate, LOL)

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Mar 8 at 2021 10:45 AM

2021-03-08T10:45:25-05:00

What we were told in OI, back in the '60s was that you just DON'T carry things in your right hand, unless in an emergency (we were all nurses & could have IVs or other critical equipment, as well as a patient to manage), and salute all superior officers. I don't know if that rule has changed, since, or not, but somehow a notebook and cup of coffee don't strike me as valid reason to not salute.

Response by FN Mike McCormack made Mar 8 at 2021 11:21 AM

2021-03-08T11:21:40-05:00

Without reading any other comments and I'm sure some are really good...I will tell you what I have done and recommend. I too didn't render a proper hand salute once...I was on my way to do some laundry and passed by two Army officers on a USN base (NI)..I didn't recognize the rank, so I kept walking. That officer stopped dead in his tracks and made me stop and render a proper salute...I never made that mistake again. A salute is a sign of respect...plain and simple; not just to the person you are approaching, but to the history of the rank as well. The moral to this sea story is...don't play pocket-pool and you will always have a free hand ;)

Response by PFC Nathan Stoughton made Mar 9 at 2021 2:31 PM

2021-03-09T14:31:30-05:00

reprimanded in korea for not rendering a hand salute to an LT who sudenly appeared right on me while i was single handedly carrying a radio up a steep ass hill from the motorpool minding my footing. a radio btw which is labeled '2 man carry' btw. tsk tsk tsk.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2021 3:26 AM

2021-03-10T03:26:31-05:00

That CSM is a cunt, pure and simple, and you should tell them as much. ...it probably won't end well, but seriously, I wish you could. Seriously, though, it's ridiculous to expect someone to render a salute when your hands are "reasonably" occupied. Any of the senior NCOs or officers here suggesting otherwise are ridiculous, power-hungry cunts, too. If you're walking down the sidewalk carrying something, sure, hold that shit in your left hand. If it can't "reasonably" be carried in one hand, fuck 'em, give them the greeting of the day and go about your business. And fuck any and every NCO or officer here who tells you otherwise. The LTC here, telling you to hand what you're carrying to the CSM and render the salute, he has it right. This is just as ridiculous as when I was stopped by a 1SG for not recognizing and saluting a CPT, during a sandstorm, in a combat zone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2021 11:07 AM

2021-03-10T11:07:55-05:00

Well you could have turn the binder flat and put you coffee cup on it then saluted

Response by CPO Jeffrey Bohemier made Mar 10 at 2021 7:15 PM

2021-03-10T19:15:41-05:00

AR 600-25 is correct. However, holding a mug in your other hand??? Seriously....maybe it’s a Navy thing, but we sailors found numerous different ways of holding onto multiple items with just one hand so the other could be available to grip the railing when transversing up and down ladders on board ships, especially when the ship is rocking and rolling. You can’t hold a binder AND mug in one hand? Try this...cup the side of the binder with your middle finger, ring finger, and pinky while using your index finger as a hook for the mug’s handle. While you’re TECHNICALLY CORRECT, being “technically” correct doesn’t necessarily make you morally correct. I would respect the rank first and foremost by rending a proper salute after shifting the mug or binder to your left hand, especially if “being right” is ultimately going to create an issue that’s not worth the fight over. It’s important to understand which fights to fight and which ones to ignore.

Response by SPC Michael Coffin made Mar 10 at 2021 9:30 PM

2021-03-10T21:30:15-05:00

Had a Major (Doctor), stop me one time & asked why I didn't salute, my right arm was in a cast from past my finger tips to just below my neck. No saluting with the left hand. By the way, I didn't salute the Post Commander when I reported to him for an 'atta boy, I just came to attention.

Response by SPC Darren Coffenberry made Mar 11 at 2021 8:27 AM

2021-03-11T08:27:42-05:00

As long as you say the salutation of the day to the encountered officer, you should be fine. Most officers i have had contact with over my career have never had a problem as long as they see your hands are tied up and that you at least acknowledged their authority and presence with a salutation. As for the CSM, he is the old man of the army, the finest NCO to ever put on a uniform, I would just drop down and give him 100 off the top, no kidding though! P.S. A salute indoors is rendered only when reporting. When you are dismissed, or when the officer departs, come to attention and salute.

Response by PO2 Steven Sparks made Mar 11 at 2021 7:04 PM

2021-03-11T19:04:44-05:00

EAOS solved it for me.

Response by SSG Leslie Cunningham made Mar 11 at 2021 8:06 PM

2021-03-11T20:06:25-05:00

I was walking between the APO and the PX passing a 2nd LT with both hands full of packages, I greeted him with Sir and he said don't you salute officers ? I said yes sir, then rendered a sharp salute and held it until he sat down his packages and returned the salute.I then did an about face and moved out smartly.

Response by SGT Leif Lynch made Mar 12 at 2021 4:26 PM

2021-03-12T16:26:33-05:00

Tell the CSM to calm down, I find that if it works out my spouse, it works on a CSM...

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Mar 12 at 2021 8:04 PM

2021-03-12T20:04:14-05:00

Not that I agree with everything; but I think we need more military officers and less political officers.

Response by TSgt Richard Ketterling made Mar 12 at 2021 8:41 PM

2021-03-12T20:41:07-05:00

A mug and a binder... hahaha seems like an excuse not to salute.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made Mar 12 at 2021 9:30 PM

2021-03-12T21:30:47-05:00

You are correct. Acknowledge the officer with respect, say by your leave sir, and carry on...

Response by CPT James Ramsey made Mar 12 at 2021 9:38 PM

2021-03-12T21:38:39-05:00

I am sure there are other circumstances, but just at the face value from the post...Slip the binder up in the left arm pit and transfer the mug to the left hand and then render the salute??? Invest in a regulation back pack? I think per regulations you're correct, but as a SGT, you've been in the ARMY long enough to know how shit runs. As a NCO and If you were a SSG or a drill what would you advise your soldiers? As a NCO what do you advise your soldier on this matter?

When I was enlisted we were taught/trained to keep your right hand free. I guess I learned because I never was reprimanded for it, but if I had, there wouldn't be a second time. Now if this is your own unit's leadership that reprimanded you both times, then...you should have known better. Clearly they set the standard regardless of the regs so either meet the standard or get some thick skin for all those reprimands.

Response by SGT William Benson made Mar 13 at 2021 11:06 PM

2021-03-13T23:06:23-05:00

"... carrying things in both hands" means like if you are carrying stuff in support of a mission, like ammo boxes, weapons components, vehicle parts, etc... A binder and a mug? With such a light load, you should plan your movement in expectation to salute (a mug? Are you serious?) You are an NCO, you should be able to figure out some way to carry both and still be able to salute. No excuse.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2021 8:34 AM

2021-03-14T08:34:10-04:00

NO! You do not render a salute.

Response by SFC Frank Smith made Mar 14 at 2021 11:06 AM

2021-03-14T11:06:09-04:00

How did the stupid M F get to be a CSM? You are aright and most officers would agree, except maybe an LT or two.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Mar 14 at 2021 3:08 PM

2021-03-14T15:08:40-04:00

In 1988, I had my daughter in my right hand and diaper bag in the other at 97th General hospital.. A Major was coming the other way, He saw that I was trying to juggle my load to salute him.
I recognized him and acknowledged him. He said that was OK that I could not salute.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Mar 14 at 2021 3:13 PM

2021-03-14T15:13:12-04:00

If U cannot free UR right hand available for a salute acknowledged the officer.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Mar 14 at 2021 4:18 PM

2021-03-14T16:18:29-04:00

No, any officer should recognize that you are unable, however the greeting of the day is a must.

Response by CSM Tony Blair made Mar 15 at 2021 10:26 PM

2021-03-15T22:26:28-04:00

I was taught never carry anything in your right hand, and if you do, did you have time to stop a gather yourself to render the salute? You can find many excuses not to do anything, but you need only to find one to do what is right. If you did not learn from the 1st time??
Soldiers do things wrong for two reasons,
!. They don't know any better
2. They don't care
which are you/

Response by CW5 William Gasaway made Mar 16 at 2021 8:46 AM

2021-03-16T08:46:21-04:00

The Regulation is specific in that it says you do not have to render a salute if you are working (i.e.carrying something, both hands occupied).
That said, a Regulation is only a guideline and a Commander can ignore it if he puts out different guidance and is willing to take the heat of his Commanders. Everywhere I served the CSM spoke with the Commander's voice and that means YOUR Commander has put out different guidance. The first time you get hit in a Command, apologize and explain you were following the Regulation and did not know the Commander's intent. The second time is on you as you do know the Commander's intent.
My recommendation if saluting any time is the Commander's guidance is to clear your right hand, either handing the item in it off to someone else (i.e. the CSM) or juggling everything with one hand and saluting.
I know a guy who had this problem and at the Commander's next open call, he brought this up and asked if that was the Commander's intent. It wasn't and the problem was solved although the CSM had it in for him the rest of his time there, so that is risky.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 16 at 2021 10:00 AM

2021-03-16T10:00:59-04:00

Your CSM is fracking idiot. That is basic soldiering skills.

Response by Col Jim Harmon made Mar 16 at 2021 10:46 AM

2021-03-16T10:46:35-04:00

If your hands are occupied you do not salute. Within reason.

If the binder was light (a few pieces of paper in a binder), it could be tucked under your armpit, or clasped with a loose finger of the hand holding the coffee mug, and a salute rendered. It really does depend on what you are carrying.

I once watched a young sailor knock himself in the head with his shoes. He had a dress uniform on a hanger being carried in one hand and his shoes in the other. Without thinking he tried to salute me with shoes in hand. Damn near knocked himself out.

I've also seen a Marine pushing a wheel barrel full of dirt, dump the load as he let go to salute.

Common sense is the rule of the day with salutes........ but be warned that a CSM has a built in BS detector that works well out past 100 meters.

Response by TSgt Lars Eilenfeld made Mar 16 at 2021 2:16 PM

2021-03-16T14:16:39-04:00

You can't multi-task and put the binder under your arm while holding the mug and salute? If you were elbows deep working on an engine or holding up something with both hands that you couldn't let go I can understand and one would thing so would the CSM, but a binder and a mug really?

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Mar 16 at 2021 5:47 PM

2021-03-16T17:47:28-04:00

No you don't. You recognize the officer by saying, "By your leave sir." I have however seen a few butter bars, REMFOs, and the so called 3rd Lt's. go ballistic over this. Most officers are not idiots.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Mar 19 at 2021 11:28 PM

2021-03-19T23:28:41-04:00

No. Not ever Never!

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made Mar 22 at 2021 3:30 PM

2021-03-22T15:30:27-04:00

The easy answer would be to tuck the binder under your left arm, shift the mug to your left hand and salute. If that's not practical at the moment, smile a bit and say "Good afternoon, Sir." The acknowledgement is the important aspect; that you're not just ignoring him.

Response by SP5 John Moran made Mar 22 at 2021 11:37 PM

2021-03-22T23:37:13-04:00

I was never called on that. Once in a while as a training NCO (instructor) I'd have hands full and would encounter a LTC, Colonel, or even a General and when they saw me start to try to get right hand free they would wave me off. But I did make the verbal greeting. That was at a training facility where we had mostly higher ranking officers and some foreign officers.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2021 1:43 AM

2021-03-28T01:43:34-04:00

From the “Army Officer’s Guide” 53rd edition it states: “Salutes are not rendered by individuals when carrying articles with both hands, or when otherwise so occupied as to make saluting impractical. Still, a “Good Morning, Sergeant” or “Good Afternoon, Sir” is manifestly appropriate”.

Response by LTC Howard Wooster made Mar 30 at 2021 8:58 PM

2021-03-30T20:58:04-04:00

I was always taught never to carry anything in my right hand. And why are you carrying a mug outside?

Response by CPT Keith Celebrezze made Mar 30 at 2021 9:07 PM

2021-03-30T21:07:52-04:00

Yes, but if the things in your hands could fit, however uncomfortably, in your left hand, you're out of compliance. No reaching at your keys with your coffee in your other hand to avoid saluting people.

Why would you, anyway? "We salute the rank, not the man".

You being respectful is about YOU. It's for YOUR character. Don't let anyone lower your standards.

Good luck.

Response by 1SG Dave McWilliams made Apr 6 at 2021 6:47 PM

2021-04-06T18:47:37-04:00

And binder and a mug .. hmmmn yeah that’s more of an excuse not a reason to render proper respect

Response by 1SG Dave McWilliams made Apr 6 at 2021 6:48 PM

2021-04-06T18:48:50-04:00

You know what the real answer is but you just want to justify your lack of common sense .. sorry to be blunt

Response by SPC Tommy Dean made Apr 8 at 2021 8:42 AM

2021-04-08T08:42:19-04:00

Yes. Even if they see you struggling, put the binder under your left arm and transfer the mug to your left hand and salute. Seems like you would have figured that our after the first ass chewing. Wow.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2021 10:07 AM

2021-04-08T10:07:13-04:00

TECHNICALLY that's why they don't want you carrying things in your right hand if you can help it. Ive dealt with this both ways. Junior officers get pissy from time to time about the proper respect thing. Older officers understand when you're just trying to get on with life. My CO used to pre-emptively tell us not to get up or stop what we were doing just because he was walking by. He'd say "time enough to salute me later."

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Apr 9 at 2021 1:52 PM

2021-04-09T13:52:28-04:00

You're 100% wrong here, and as a Sergeant you should know better. A coffee cup in the left hand and the binder under your arm, leaves the right hand free for saluting.

"Hands Busy"is using a fire hose, or something that can not be easily carried in another way.

Response by BG Gary Jones made Apr 9 at 2021 6:12 PM

2021-04-09T18:12:39-04:00

I believe the CSM was capable of deciding whether your hands were too engaged to render a salute. But the key was that this was the second time you’ve placed yourself in this situation. Apparently, the correction didn’t take the first time. It appears that you may be attempting to evade rendering a military courtesy. As an officer, I never expected a salute from a troop who was appropriately engaged and would be indisposed by having to salute me.

Response by GySgt Matthew Edgar made Apr 10 at 2021 1:28 AM

2021-04-10T01:28:01-04:00

If an officer does not understand that your greeting was in place of the salute due to your situation, then they are in wrong. When in doubt follow the regulations and inform whomever has issue that respectfully you are following the regulations per your training and education. Some trees just never learn that the ground is what supports them!!

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Apr 10 at 2021 1:31 PM

2021-04-10T13:31:04-04:00

You need an attitude adjustment. If you use this as an excuse to salute which is military courtesy, I am pretty sure it will become something else in the future. Put the stuff down, salute, then move out. It's what soldiers do.

Response by MSG Stephen Zitta made Apr 11 at 2021 5:10 AM

2021-04-11T05:10:15-04:00

if you are doing meaningful work and your arms filled , than you can say by your leave. It should show your tribute to the officer, just don't make it a habit. a coffee cup may not be seen as meaningful.

Response by LCpl Sidney Green made Apr 11 at 2021 6:47 AM

2021-04-11T06:47:16-04:00

Its generally understood that if both hands are being used that you simply acknowledge the officer. Nevertheless, that is an understanding, not a policy. If the officer needs you to render a salute, then you put down whatever you're carrying or stop what you're doing and render a salute. You always follow orders even when its not expected, completely unnecessary, and makes no sense. Some officer and even more NCO will purposely put you in harms way for no good reason other than to satisfy their fragile egos. Just keep in mind the if you're hurt in the process, the service will pay for your recuperation, and you may receive benefits for any lasting ailment caused by doing so.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Apr 11 at 2021 12:35 PM

2021-04-11T12:35:05-04:00

Don't argue just salute and keep moving.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Apr 11 at 2021 3:54 PM

2021-04-11T15:54:23-04:00

That regulation is designed for instances that carrying things that make it impossible to salute such as package so large it takes both hands to carry them acknowledge the Officer with a nod and greeting. If that had been the case I doubt anything would have been said. A coffee mug and a binder ? give me a break, there are ways to carry those items using one hand and not have to drop anything. the binder could have been held under Your left arm and the coffee in Your left hand and I hope You weren't drinking that coffee as You walked, that also would NOT be proper. This is a big stretch of what the Regulation was intended for and a situation You should have and could have avoided and seems a lot more like a plan to avoid rendering proper Military Courtesies. If I were where the CSM was and walking with an officer was I believe I also would have said the same thing He did. Not even once as a cadet or member of the Military service did I ever fail to render those Military courtesies and no one ever had to speak to me about that subject. I may add I've also taught classes on the subjects of Military Customs and courtesies to insure ALL My students knew what the customs were, what they meant, the history and observed them.

Response by PO2 Stephen Cline made Apr 11 at 2021 7:09 PM

2021-04-11T19:09:58-04:00

Some officers are full of themselves. I had a similar experience. I had books under both arms and got chewed out for not saluting one officer. The other officers I crossed path with never said a word.

Response by PFC William Mower made Apr 11 at 2021 8:03 PM

2021-04-11T20:03:15-04:00

Upon seeing the approaching officer he should of stopped and placed the item in his right hand on the ground and come to the position of attention and held the salute till the officer has returned the salute.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Apr 11 at 2021 9:05 PM

2021-04-11T21:05:14-04:00

Here is a case where discretion is needed. While it might seem reasonable to say that no salute might be required, one needs to ask "How professional do I want to appear?" and "How hard should I try?" Clearly, there will be an edge given to anybody who tries hard to comply with the customs and courtesies, even if it seems to be difficult. The CSM probably would appreciate anybody who tries hard and that is what CSM's are supposed to do. In this case, the CSM did not communicate this desire well (this is on the CSM, but doesn't alleviate the requirement).

The right answer is this: Try hard.

If there would be some way to comply with the courtesy then give it a try. Stuff everything under the left arm and carry as much as you can with the left hand. If nothing else, put down whatever keeps you from using the right hand to salute and snap one off. If the CSM criticizes you for anything related to that, it will likely be very much less severe than not giving it an honest try. Everybody appreciates it when you try hard. Life is not always fair, and sometimes you have to deal with difficult circumstances. Try hard to get it right, even when it's not easy, and you will be rewarded. If nothing else, you will start to build a habit (and, if you're lucky a reputation) for overcoming difficulties.

Response by SFC Joel McPhaill made Apr 11 at 2021 9:56 PM

2021-04-11T21:56:27-04:00

Greet them with the proper military respect and move out. That CSM was being an asshat.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Apr 12 at 2021 12:42 AM

2021-04-12T00:42:45-04:00

Whenever I see an officer approaching, I stop what I’m doing. Render the proper salute, then continue on after the officer has proceeded on his/ her way.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Apr 12 at 2021 12:52 AM

2021-04-12T00:52:03-04:00

If what you wrote is correct, the CSM is a jerk. My problem is a binder and a mug. What are you doing drinking and walking [especially in uniform]. I was taught not to eat or drink outside while walking--it can get messy. Walking down the hall or a "no salute" area is different story.

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made Apr 12 at 2021 1:22 AM

2021-04-12T01:22:26-04:00

That is talking about needing two hands to carry an item - ie a large box. You would have been able to have tucked the binder under your arm - and hold the cup in your left hand. - On the other hand, were you carrying those items as you did, just so you would not have to salute?

Response by SN Jay Perry made Apr 12 at 2021 11:54 PM

2021-04-12T23:54:16-04:00

I have had my ass chewed for failing to do so....though I have also scene guys transfer their child into their right arm to prevent them from having to salute, as I have also seen people to move into the skin of the ship (you don't salute under cover). I have been WRITTEN UP FOR FAILING TO RENDER A SALUTE WHILE WORKING ON A SHIPS ANCHOR (defined as hazardous duty charges were dropped)!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2021 5:11 PM

2021-04-15T17:11:11-04:00

Quit playing “hands full” games and render the salute. From your question, it looks like you have a habit of ensuring your hands are full to avoid saluting. Looks like I just found the instructor for next month’s NCOPD class on military customs and courtesy.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2021 8:06 AM

2021-04-17T08:06:13-04:00

The AR states it correctly and you did it right. The CSM obviously did not deserve to be wearing the stripes of an E-9! PS What did the CPT do during this exchange you had with the CSM?

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Apr 26 at 2021 12:00 AM

2021-04-26T00:00:44-04:00

A binder and a mug? Really? SMH. As an E-5 who is an Intelligence Analyst, you definitely should know much better. Being the second time, your command is being VERY lenient or you're very lucky.
Using your argument, I can have an envelope in each hand and not be required to salute.
The spirit of AR 600-25 is that if you are carrying articles that REQUIRE both hands, such as 2 cases of printer paper that cannot be carried with one hand, or a stack of binders that, although light in weight, would fall if you remove one hand. In your case, ONE binder is easily placed under your left arm, the mug transferred to your left hand. Then you salute!

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made May 3 at 2021 2:51 PM

2021-05-03T14:51:39-04:00

I'll speak for myself. NO! I wouldn't want any soldier or sailor to struggle to render a salute. Just a nice greeting will do. I know many JO's who are so enamored with gold that they have their heads cross threaded in place and demand real dumb stuff.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made May 6 at 2021 6:51 AM

2021-05-06T06:51:10-04:00

There were only three times I got away with out salute an officer. In the field, in combat, when my right hand was injured. For a whole year I did not have to salute any one. For the first 2 months, I had a cast on and for the next year, I had to wear a brace on my hand. That got me into a little bit of trouble after it came off, because I had forgot to salute one of my LTs, but he understood why and just gave me a little bit of grief. The best thing I can tell you to do, start carrying your binder in a black or green back pack and carry your mug in your left hand.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made May 15 at 2021 4:10 AM

2021-05-15T04:10:11-04:00

Normally, since both hands are completely occupied, no you're unable to properly salute an officer. But if that folder wasn't the size of a M-84 in thickness or the length of an Abrams tank and your coffee mug/cup, you must switch that mug/cup over to your left hand and render a snappy salute. As for the CSM biting your head off, getbuse to it anytime you see any CSM and you fail to salute an officer.

Response by PFC Martin Potashner made May 17 at 2021 2:53 PM

2021-05-17T14:53:15-04:00

WHAT BUGGED ME WAS SALUTING A CAR WITH AN OFFICER STICKER ON THE WINDSHIELD WHILE A KID WAS DRIVING THE CAR I DONT KNOW IF THEY STILL DO THAT I WAS IN THE ARMY A LONG TIME AGO.

Response by CPT William Jones made May 17 at 2021 3:02 PM

2021-05-17T15:02:06-04:00

I just tried this afternoon being out after 6 yrs active duty as an officer from enlisted first. I got a full heavy 4” binder and full Coffey cup put binder under left arm cup in left hand walke down hall towards full length mirror. Tendered my smartest OCS salute with no problem. Miss or returned it and I continued walking

Response by SGM Gerald Fife made May 17 at 2021 4:23 PM

2021-05-17T16:23:46-04:00

A binder and a mug. Lets see a mug has a handle. Put the binder under your left arm and hook your index finger in the handle of the mug and salute. Obviously someone didn't learn from his first time. This all comes under lessons learned. This sounds like one of those soldiers that carries things in both hands just so you don't won't to salute.

Response by SP5 Paul Riley made May 18 at 2021 12:03 AM

2021-05-18T00:03:02-04:00

Even after I became an NCO I used to try and avoid saluting officers, sometime I would lean over and act like I was retying one of my laces, sometimes I would act like didn't see them. But occasionally when I did salute an officer it would be because I respected an officer.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made May 18 at 2021 12:41 PM

2021-05-18T12:41:46-04:00

I don't know how things work in the Army outside what my grandfather, dad, and brother told me. But this stands in the Navy. I had a brand new JO fresh outta the academy attempt yo make me salute while I was carrying a very heavy aircraft part to a support vehicle in the parking lot. I kept walking after our encounter, politely explained the article and my current situation and went on my way. I returned later and was told to put on my dress whites because I was being sent to Captain's mast (Commanding Officer's Court). When the JO explained his side, and I gave mine. The CO asked the JO to leave, and dismissed all charges. He also told me, 'Tee" don't worry about that Ivy league A-Hole. I can't stand him either!

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made May 20 at 2021 3:07 PM

2021-05-20T15:07:02-04:00

The day I can't hold a mug and transfer a binder to my left side, is the day l will renew my membership to the base gym. I'm torn between calling the soldier ignorant or defiant.

Response by LCDR J Elsner made May 21 at 2021 7:58 AM

2021-05-21T07:58:47-04:00

I agree with the gentleman who said that one needs to keep the right hand handy to render appropriate salutes as appropriate.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2021 11:22 AM

2021-05-23T11:22:00-04:00

Others have nailed it but truth is in some circumstances you’re correct, and in some the CSM is right. Hard for us to choose a side in your specific case without having been there to see it. A mug and a binder? You probably could have had reasonably on your left side to keep the right hand free, and should think in such a way. BUT in cases that both hands are truly, reasonably occupied, a greeting is absolutely appropriate without a salute. Reg clearly supports such. This, btw, coming from an officer that was stopped and “corrected” by a SGM years ago at Bagram because I merely greeted the passing Colonel with my hands legitimately full. I was pretty well told I was wrong for carrying so much and being unable to salute.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2021 7:08 PM

2021-05-23T19:08:29-04:00

Not required to salute. Continue your mission and offer an appropriate greeting. I would think a CSM would know that. By the time they made it to E-9, I would also think those Command Sergeants Major would have better things to do than to think of lame justification to bust people’s balls. Unfortunately, too often I have seen military “leaders”(?) apply their ego to their positions of authority.

If a Soldier is wrong, by all means make a correction. Quit being so damned insecure and LEAD our troops. <Rant Over>

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made May 24 at 2021 6:58 AM

2021-05-24T06:58:19-04:00

Idiot question, how long have you been active service, "hands full drop the junk in your hands and salute, yea you would actually pass and say good whatever, sir, mam, etc." What was the CSM, oh yea a administrative E9 - must be either an ego trip or reserve. YOU answered your own question and have the gonads to tell the CSM it. If he disagrees take it up the chain.

Response by LTC Clayton Hill made May 24 at 2021 9:34 AM

2021-05-24T09:34:09-04:00

No officer in his or her right mind would expect a salute. A polite greeting and/or explanation is sufficient.

Response by CPT William Jones made May 24 at 2021 10:25 AM

2021-05-24T10:25:56-04:00

If it was possible to hold both the binder and your mug with your left arm and hand, and its obvious you can render a salute, then you should. Simply having "articles" in both hands such as a binder and a mug of coffee does not absolve you of this courtesy. On the other hand, if you truly are loaded down, you could have provided the appropriate greeting and acknowledged that you would salute if your hands were free and the Captain should have issued an "As You Were" command to acknowledge your courtesy. There seems to be some information missing and you have to ask yourself if you are being honest with yourself and everyone here with the information you have provided, or are you withholding information to your benefit. (e.g. such as a it was a 2 inch binder, versus carrying 5 - 4 inch binders and your coffee. Details matter. If you were truly laden down, the CSM and CPT were wrong to reprimand you, but if you were not, and were fully capable, then you were wrong and IAW policy, you are expected to render the appropriate courtesies.

Response by SMSgt Steve Neal made May 24 at 2021 12:01 PM

2021-05-24T12:01:52-04:00

The respectful greeting was the IMPORTANT part. You may unsuccessfully debate the carrying of so few items in both hands, when you could have easily stopped, began the obvious item shift to your left hand, while issuing the greeting and allow both of them the option to wave-off the salute before you drop stuff..

Response by SGT Jeremy Andrews made May 24 at 2021 12:48 PM

2021-05-24T12:48:00-04:00

It is situationally dependent. From my own experiences when not under arms during a patrol, or packing up a milbox for deployment, I stopped approximately 25 paces from the Company and Field Grade Officers out of their way, orderly placed my items on the ground and rendered the Salute. There are situations that would render that a moot point but that is the proper customs and courtesy taught to me by my NCO’s.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made May 24 at 2021 2:45 PM

2021-05-24T14:45:15-04:00

Technically as many have stated, the correct answer is yes you need to salute. HOWEVER personally as many officers will tell you, our goal is not to walk around and make people salute us as it gets old sometimes LOL, but nonetheless if I ever had a soldier walk past me whether it be one of my own that knew how I was or one that was not mine and did not know how I was if I could clearly see that you had your hands full and rendered a verbal greeting to me that was more than enough. You clearly showed intent which is more than sufficient, however there will be those situations or officers that demand a salute which personally I can’t stand them but that’s just me. I’m sure that’ll ruffle some feathers but I don’t really care as I join the military to complete a mission, not to salute. I understand the background of the salute before anybody makes that comment and tries to lecture me on it.

I will say as one of the NCOs on here stated, if you intentionally try to have a pencil in each hand and make the argument that your hands were full, then good luck with that because even I would say something to you because again that shows intent but of a different type.

If you find yourself in that particular situation again, what I may try doing is it depending on the situation i.e. weather etc. if you see them coming your direction possibly stop and make sure to make eye contact and give the verbal greeting which should hopefully be more than sufficient if not just do your best and shrug it off and just keep on rolling, because at this point I’m sure you’ve learned you’ll never please everybody. Best of luck to you.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2021 5:19 PM

2021-05-24T17:19:15-04:00

I agree with everyone else... Unless absolutely necessary you should keep your right hand free. I'm so used to that I do it out of uniform without thinking about it.

The idea is, say you're carrying a large package. In that case, ideally you would set it down in advance, salute, then carry on. At a minimum you would stop and say something like "Good morning sir, apologies for the salute.". At least that's what I was taught. But a binder and a mug? You can salute still.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made May 24 at 2021 6:32 PM

2021-05-24T18:32:49-04:00

...you say a Mug in the other hand? I am guessing that is a coffee or beverage? If that is the case, then you are putting yourself in a situation to be called out. If your on post walking, be prepared to salute.
If you were carrying a large box, that is a different situation. Common sense must prevail from both sides..

Response by SFC Carl Olney made May 25 at 2021 12:32 AM

2021-05-25T00:32:22-04:00

the only time I saluted an officer in Afghanistan was in the rear area. but all other situations make the effort most officers will tell you to carry on.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2021 2:59 PM

2021-05-25T14:59:57-04:00

CSM needs to re-familiarize himself with the AR. That being said, if I could avoid carrying something in my right hand, I would, mostly out of habit I suppose.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made May 25 at 2021 5:41 PM

2021-05-25T17:41:08-04:00

Reminds me of my earlier days I the supply room.
1st Sgt comes in & asks: "Who's in charge here?"
I took a quick look around & replied: "You are, 1st Sgt." He looked like a deer at headlights for a moment, then grinned & shook his head. Funny thing. I never "kissed brass," but I think I always had their confidence. LOL!

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made May 25 at 2021 8:25 PM

2021-05-25T20:25:56-04:00

You should halt your forward progress, balance the coffee mug on the binder in your left hand, and promptly render due courtesies.

And in the future, stop carrying stuff in your right hand!

KleenKanteen sells fantastic spill proof drink containers. Even insulated to keep the drink hot or cold all day. If you had one of those, you could tuck it under your left arm and be clear for saluting.

There is only one possible excuse for not saluting where it is called for... Carrying an official object too large to do anything except strongly and pleasantly vocalize, "Good day Sir/Ma'am".

But I have no idea how to address a trans officer. "Good day Them"? Help me out...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2021 2:40 PM

2021-05-26T14:40:56-04:00

Absolutely, you must salute. Whether you are on a "Starbucks run" or food detail. You must "drop" everything on your right hand to render a salute to officers. That's a no brainer rule.

Response by PO1 Don Roberts made May 26 at 2021 4:43 PM

2021-05-26T16:43:50-04:00

Binder goes under your left arm, cup into left hand, salute with your right.

Response by CPT Tommy Curtis made May 26 at 2021 8:06 PM

2021-05-26T20:06:56-04:00

Most officers would not make it big deal out of it and would have told the CSM to drop it, but you should make an effort to render honors.

Response by SGT Desmond Strait made May 27 at 2021 2:25 AM

2021-05-27T02:25:14-04:00

Always keep your right hands free of anything...

Response by CW3 Joseph Lawrence made May 27 at 2021 10:03 AM

2021-05-27T10:03:41-04:00

Had a Captain in Germany who was obsessed with the salute. He was constantly chastising soldiers for not saluting even when they were a distance away. The troops got together one morning and when he was coming down the sidewalk, they spread out at 6 foot intervals and each one rendered a salute. 125 Soldiers and 125 salutes. He got the point and never bothered anyone again. I was at Fort Lee and was going into the Post Exchange when a young private came out with his hands full. He set everything down on the walk and saluted me and I thanked him for his dedication and explained to him that when his hands are full he need not render a salute. Then again I have seen soldiers shift items from their left hand to their saluting hand in order to avoid the salute. I would say if the soldier in questioned rendered a greeting to the officer, then he was well within the Army's doctrine on salutes

Response by MSgt Gilbert Flowers made May 27 at 2021 2:16 PM

2021-05-27T14:16:30-04:00

I’ve been out for awhile but in those days you carried zilch in your right hand while in uniform and were expected to render a salute. Of course it didn’t apply in field conditions. I also admit, I was a stickler for protocol.

Response by TSgt Douglas Greenwood made May 28 at 2021 9:40 AM

2021-05-28T09:40:52-04:00

When the CSM direct you to do something, you do it. If you have a problem with that, take it up with your command at a later date. End of story.

Response by SGM Charles Twardzicki made May 29 at 2021 9:19 AM

2021-05-29T09:19:44-04:00

So a coffee mug now supercedes regulations! I have a vapping device in my left hand and a mug in my right and I'm now just too busy to be in uniform. Thank God I'm retired.

Response by SPC Bryan Gustafson made May 29 at 2021 8:05 PM

2021-05-29T20:05:47-04:00

If your hands are full but you can easily shift an item to free your right hand to salute, you should do so but if you are carrying something heavy where both hands are tied up and rendering a proper salute is neither practicable nor feasible, you should then just smartly give the officer the greeting of the day.

Response by SFC Christopher Burns made May 30 at 2021 5:56 PM

2021-05-30T17:56:52-04:00

Put whatever you have on the floor and salute from then on carry everything you have in your left and avoid that situation again

Response by SFC Dwight Beaver made May 31 at 2021 10:16 AM

2021-05-31T10:16:39-04:00

Yes. Do whatever you can to render that salute. I got busted for the same thing but it was a briefcase and coffee..

Response by CPT Jim Kotva made Jun 17 at 2021 9:04 AM

2021-06-17T09:04:40-04:00

Typical CSM no if your hands are full you just have to give them recognition Good morning Sir. I was at Ft. Gordon an AIT student had his left arm in a sling and was carrying his books in his right hand. He dropped his books to salute me. I picked up his books told him soldier I see your arm is in a sling all you have to do is give me a greeting.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Jun 21 at 2021 7:32 PM

2021-06-21T19:32:08-04:00

Better tuck that binder under an arm or stop put your stuff down and then salute, improvise think out side the box. Biggest thing make it happen. Your a soldier improvise adapt and overcome, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to do this but prioritize and expect to salute at all times, be prepared to salute at all times. Next hint recon during off duty hours look for other routes that are less likely to be used by Officers, so when you recon those routes your gonna time your self so you are where your supposed to be when your supposed to be so when you test those routes you'll know how long it takes and then alternate your routes its not perfect but at least it will give you option but be ready to salute at all times maybe even get a back pack if its authorized.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2021 6:30 AM

2021-07-01T06:30:20-04:00

Grey area. Personally I wouldn't have cared. But that's because I am the laid back chaplain and that the roll I have decided to play. (Some may disagree with me but I have my reasons.).

I will say it when you only have a few things in your hands like that it can look lazy that you didn't try to keep your right hand free.

How I avoid this, I carry a black backpack with my water cup in my left hand.

Response by SGT Apollo Sharpe made Jul 9 at 2021 5:45 PM

2021-07-09T17:45:26-04:00

Stop carrying things in your right hand, unless it's absolutely necessary.

Response by TSgt Eddie Andujar made Jul 17 at 2021 2:29 PM

2021-07-17T14:29:00-04:00

Yes, you need to salute the CPT. No excuses!!!

Response by CPT Thomas Monahan made Jul 21 at 2021 2:38 PM

2021-07-21T14:38:31-04:00

If you are carrying something that requires both hands give the greeting of the day followed by sir and move out. If your entire load can be carried on you left it should be so. Now for the CSM, take the but chewing and share the incident with your PLT SGT and 1SG afterward. Your 1SG will probably ask the CSM “WTF!”

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Jul 25 at 2021 12:53 AM

2021-07-25T00:53:32-04:00

SGT - after reading the numerous responses to your query, I have a couple questions of my own. 1) Did you actually comply with said CSM's demand and render a hand salute, and 2) you said it was the SECOND time that you've gotten reprimanded for not saluting...were you carrying items in both hands then too ? I ask this because your'e a SGT E5, and have had every opportunity to learn proper military behavior between E1 and now. I'm taking this seemingly "hard-line" as I was a draftee and worked my way up to E5 before finishing OCS, and there was absolutely no question in my mind when and where to salute.

Response by Sgt Laura Campbell made Jul 31 at 2021 1:53 AM

2021-07-31T01:53:20-04:00

Don't be stupid enough to carry anything in both hands unless you make sure your arms are full. Give me a break, a binder & a coffee cup?!?! I've been out over 30 years & I still carry my purse on my left shoulder! If you see someone you don't want to salute coming your way, shuffle your items so you can salute, walk across the street, or learn by getting in trouble that certain rules in the MILITARY are important!

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Aug 2 at 2021 11:25 AM

2021-08-02T11:25:59-04:00

Sounds like the CMS has a problem. I was taught, in the AF, if your hands were full and could not salute at the least you need to acknowledge the officer so that he or knows that you are not just blowing him or off.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Aug 15 at 2021 10:38 AM

2021-08-15T10:38:51-04:00

This hit me the wrong way so i am going to vent. Pretty sure i posted before as well but what ever. The author of the is question i hope is getting out of the service, your e-4 mafia tactics are unbecoming of a NCO get over yourself your an NCO do what you know is right and quit trying to shuck responsibility. It is of my opinion that with this attitude you should never be in a position to lead Soldiers because what you teach them is not what the Military Needs. Crap where is the Tylenol.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2021 9:10 AM

2021-08-20T09:10:50-04:00

Of you're physicality working, no, but I never ever carry anything in my right hand. A mug is no excuse not to salute.

Response by SFC David Ocasio made Aug 20 at 2021 12:42 PM

2021-08-20T12:42:24-04:00

If your engaged in performing a vital function I see no reason to stop or drop your items to render a salute as long as you recognize them and give them the greeting of the day. They should know better.

Response by MG Stephen Hogan made Aug 20 at 2021 12:49 PM

2021-08-20T12:49:19-04:00

I feel your pain young man. I was tuned up by an 0-6 when I was an 0-5 outside of the Pentagon for exactly the same reason. I had just in-processed, when my briefcase (that I had purchased when I was a 2LT) came to pieces, so I had to carry it under my arm like a stack of books, the other arm literally carrying an inpro stack of books/ folders. Sometimes the world stacks up against you.

My greeting of the day, was "Good Morning Sir, I beg your pardon...." which for 99% would have been just ducky. Not this guy. Bless his heart. I likely oughtn't mention that he looked like an uber short duffle bag that 3 Joes had filled with their full kit and pogey bait- and his beret looked like a flying saucer. I didn't like it, sure- but I was actually more aggravated that my briefcase had previously S*** the bed and my papers had scattered all over the Pentagon floor. Not my best day in uniform.

What is funny about the saluting thing, is again- 99% of those that rate one, could care less. One of my Exec's before I retired was a Captain, Air Force Special Tactician, who wore different looking OCPs and a more different non army Red Beret, that Joe would stare at, salute, while paying no attention to the old man walking next to him 3 feet away. You should find that funny, because I think its hilarious.

All said, you know as well as I do that this incident is not the Army, that the Captain was embarrassed and even maybe the CSM was aiming to. I would advise that reciting the AR would have made it worse, sometimes that you just have to take your beating, blow the claymores - and break contact.

Response by A1C Paul Kelly made Aug 20 at 2021 1:02 PM

2021-08-20T13:02:37-04:00

You are not supposed to salute if carrying a weapon(s) also I written up many times on this one in which I either had to see the first Sgt. or the general over. In fact, after a while when the general would see me he would ask if some dumb captain wrote me up for not saluting again.

Response by PFC Steven Kleiner made Aug 20 at 2021 2:19 PM

2021-08-20T14:19:27-04:00

Never carry anything in your right hand so you can render a salute, period! If, you are, place it down, hand it to someone, find some where to put it and render the salute.

Response by LTC Forrest Brandt made Aug 20 at 2021 10:49 PM

2021-08-20T22:49:20-04:00

As I read your question and the responses it seems to me that the situation depends - how big is the binder, office or outside the building, did you say "Good Morning Captain," your CO or some random captain? Each of those could affect my answer.

I read a few comments from fellow officers - I think most EMs don't realize that we had to anticipate the very situation you describe. I kept my right hand free so that I could return salutes.

I had a WWII uncle who when home on Christmas leave in 1943 went into downtown Dayton every day to catch hot shot fly boy officers from Wright - Patterson shopping with their wives/girl friends/dame de jour and carrying packages in both arms. He'd deliberately walk up to them and give them his best salute and hold it until they put their packages down and returned his salute. It does work both ways.

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Aug 21 at 2021 9:11 AM

2021-08-21T09:11:00-04:00

It is what AR said yes common sense you give the courtesy and put the bider under your arms witch allow your salute hand to random salute to the officer.. There time the we forget too used common sense by showing courtesy…

Response by SSgt Mike Finch made Aug 21 at 2021 2:01 PM

2021-08-21T14:01:10-04:00

Perhaps the Army is different. Could you reasonably carry both items while leaving your "saluting hand" free? Or, could it be construed that you had both hands "full" to avoid saluting?

Response by CPT Bruce Dow made Aug 21 at 2021 3:02 PM

2021-08-21T15:02:04-04:00

If you're carrying an M2 50, no need to salute, but a binder and a coffee mug??? Keep your right hand free...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2021 4:13 PM

2021-08-21T16:13:38-04:00

As one said on this post, don't put yourself in that predicament. However, sometimes that situation arises. When I used to work in the G6 of a Division HQ's, that place was full of officers. There were times I had my hands full due to the fact that I had just given a class and am returning and couldn't render a salute. However, I still acknowledged the officer with a greeting and a head nod. Most of those officers knew my hands were full and did not give me grief but a returned gesture. Bottom line, acknowledge the officer regardless.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Aug 21 at 2021 7:59 PM

2021-08-21T19:59:37-04:00

Best unoccupy your hand, might not go well

Response by CPT David Tanner made Aug 22 at 2021 1:33 AM

2021-08-22T01:33:46-04:00

I could see a big box or a child, etc, but a binder and a coffee cup, and you were already reprimanded once before. For 5 seconds you should have put the coffee cup in your left hand and the binder under your left arm and saluted. It is not that hard to do. Do what it takes to avoid trouble.

Response by LCpl Rich Vail made Aug 22 at 2021 9:18 AM

2021-08-22T09:18:22-04:00

Your CSM is an utter asshole. If reg's specifically state you're not required to salute, when carrying something in both hands, then refer him to the appropriate regulation. This is the difference between the Army and USMC. In the USMC you not required to salute indoors unless under arms (i.e. on "duty").

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2021 12:44 PM

2021-08-22T12:44:29-04:00

I say go with 600-25I think the CSM was just Showing his authority or didn't read the Ar 600-25

Response by Cpl Cary Cartter made Aug 22 at 2021 4:18 PM

2021-08-22T16:18:19-04:00

I was active duty a long time ago (friends don't tell friends that 1980 was dirty one years ago). From the get-go, those I served with were trained to keep the right hand free. At the time, we were told it was to allow us to render the proper salute and greeting. If we were moving objects, using both hands, then the senior person (usually NCO in charge) would handle the greetings for the group.

As a young NCO, set your own standard higher than that expected of you, so the troops you are leading also have a higher standard than expected.

Response by Capt Robert Vincelette made Aug 22 at 2021 5:11 PM

2021-08-22T17:11:42-04:00

If the salute would interfere with the performance of a duty necessary for the mission it would not be proper to salute. Otherwise such effort as putting down an object in one hand or temporarily holding in the left hand is an excellent way to show respect for a cherish-able military tradition.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Aug 22 at 2021 6:33 PM

2021-08-22T18:33:53-04:00

You can tuck the binder under the left arm, and then hold the cup in the left hand, this leaves the saluting hand open for saluting. If you're carrying something that requires to hands to maneuver then you don't need to salute.

Response by CAPT Frank Nice made Aug 22 at 2021 7:36 PM

2021-08-22T19:36:10-04:00

In training, I was instructed as a junior officer that if both hands are occupied, you respectfully address your senior officer and do not salute. Works perfectly especially if you are carrying an umbrella in one hand and the code box covered by the umbrella in your other hand! What I also learned is that you get by in life very well using 1/2 knowledge + 1/2 experience + 1/2 common sense, with common sense being the most important of the three halves.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Aug 22 at 2021 11:38 PM

2021-08-22T23:38:46-04:00

My experience in the military under such circumstances were to stop, stand at attention, and nod in the direction of the officer, and then move on. Common sense dictates little else despite a Command Sergeant Major and a Captain's point of view.

If you are the noncom in charge of such a detail in moving things around you would stop and salute.

Response by SPC David Kindred made Aug 23 at 2021 12:53 AM

2021-08-23T00:53:27-04:00

6 years enlisted army here, '85-'91. Unless you can't possibly rearrange the items you're carrying, then yes absolutely. For example, I'm the situation you describe, could you not put the binder under your left arm and hold the mug with your left hand? I did similar things many times during my enlistment. Also had occasions where I was carrying something rather large and encountered officers, in which case you at least acknowledge their presence and rank, i.e. "Good morning, Captain". Unless the binder is just huge, I wouldn't see why you couldn't do that.

Response by SGT J M Porters made Aug 23 at 2021 5:16 AM

2021-08-23T05:16:50-04:00

Always be prepared to salute. Drop it and Salute. You may not get another chance because of the two reprimanded. It is time to start looking for a new career.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Aug 23 at 2021 8:39 PM

2021-08-23T20:39:13-04:00

Put your damn mug away and salute!

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 25 at 2021 9:57 AM

2021-08-25T09:57:03-04:00

I was once carrying a rather large coffee pot when I realized a major General was approaching me on the sidewalk. As we neared one another, the General sensed my dilemma and said. " Young man I consider myself saluted. You carry on and have a good day". I know this is not an answer to your question....Just another bit of proof that officers are people too. lol

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Aug 26 at 2021 10:23 PM

2021-08-26T22:23:47-04:00

I have been Ret for a few Years, but last I looked, you are Required to if at all possible move any and all items from your hand in order to render a hand Salute, while giving the greeting of the day.

If on a work Detail only the person in Charge of the work Detail comes to a position of attention, Gives the Greeting of the Day along with a hand Salute.

if it is imposable to move all the said items from your hands and you see the officer coming your way, you can do one of two things, set the items Down, then come to a Position Of Attention and Give a hand Salute, while Giving the Greeting Of the Day, as the Officers Pass.

or continue walking, and Give the Greeting of the day, with a Short Apology with a Explanation, for example, I always would say Good Morning, Afternoon , Evening Sir, I am so sorry I cannot Salute you, because I have My Hands full of my School Work, Work detail Items, Etc . after I have polity & Courteously Educated and shown the Officer why I could not Render the Hand Salute, Hopefully he or she understands.

Most Do,
yet there are some who get off on a power trip,
yet if the Officer persisted, with his or her demands, that I drop everything while my hands are full and give him or her a hand Salute, I would go ahead and comply with the order until I had a chance to Speake to him or her Privately, I would not get into a public screaming match it will only hurt you. just wait until you have a Opportunity to speak to him or her Privately, in order to show him or her the Rules and regulations on Hand Salutes while walking with your hands full.

If that Does Not Solve the Issue, and you are 100% Correct, and you firmly believe this is the Hill to die on, Then by all means run it up the Flag Pole , Then and Only Then would I take it Further Up the Chain . only if I was 100% this was the hill worth Dying On.

I would take my complaint up the chain of command , showing them why the Jr Officer was being Unreasonable even after you shown him the correct rules and Regulations .

Like I said it been a few years things might have changed .

Response by SPC Jasen E. made Sep 16 at 2021 5:12 PM

2021-09-16T17:12:52-04:00

No. Unless you are able to carry the item in your left hand. If both hands are required, No.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2021 7:37 AM

2021-09-19T07:37:02-04:00

I see this question so many times and I have to admit that I think discipline in the Army is slacking. I have been on plenty of bases where there have been Marines and Soldiers and I have never had this problem with Marines. WE SALUTE THE RANK! NOT THE MAN! If you are on a work detail, then there is the exception, but you didn’t say that. If you’re walking around on post, why would both of your hands be filled? Bags have straps. Coffee can switch hands. We’re you carrying a giant box? The Army is the only branch I have seen where Soldiers will purposely avoid ranks by turning their backs, walking away, mysteriously getting a phone call, etc. It never irked me before, but the Marines have made it very obvious by their absolute respect. I’m off my soapbox now.

Response by SSgt Michael Bowen made Sep 19 at 2021 2:02 PM

2021-09-19T14:02:56-04:00

CSM was wrong . with your hands full a verbal acknowledgement is perfectly acceptable . There is no reg or order that says you must keep your right had clear to salute nor is there one that says you must stop and drop what you are carrying to salute . This is just ego and power tripping . You did nothing wrong based on what you said happened .

Response by CW2 Michael MacInerney made Sep 19 at 2021 2:55 PM

2021-09-19T14:55:19-04:00

You should have learned your lesson the first time. As a private I learned it after my one mistake.

Response by CW4 Gregg Brown made Sep 19 at 2021 3:36 PM

2021-09-19T15:36:49-04:00

Call me on. Be honest. You probably saw the CPT approaching from far enough away that you could have tucked the binder under your left are, continued holding your mouth g with your left hand, and saluted with your right. Yours sounds more like an excuse than a reason.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2021 6:22 PM

2021-09-19T18:22:57-04:00

Pretty simple... Adapt, Overcome or Improvise... In this case Improvise. Transfer the junk to your left hand and respect the mans Rank!

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Sep 19 at 2021 8:24 PM

2021-09-19T20:24:47-04:00

Answer is.. Sgt. Gianna M...Back in late 70's I was a young Sgt.holding a large and heavy paper bag with both hands as two Marines Corps Officers walked crossed my path. I stated, Good afternoons Sirs. I did not salute as both Marine Officers began to ream me a new one. One of the officers even called my Gunny as I got another butt chewing from him .So, with that in mind, YES or be ready for Office Hours*** Salute is a respect shown in the military and must be displayed at all times. keep you right hand free in uniform at all times.

Response by Capt Edward Egan made Sep 20 at 2021 1:58 AM

2021-09-20T01:58:52-04:00

The tradition of the salute began with knights in armor raising the visors of their helmets. It evolved to show the empty hand was not holding a sword (or later, a gun). Over time it became a method of showing respect or deference, subordinate to senior.

Carry in your left hand to keep your right hand free in order to render or return a salute. The salute is meant to be a respectful greeting (and must be returned). If both hands are legitimately full, then a simple verbal greeting will suffice.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Sep 20 at 2021 2:34 AM

2021-09-20T02:34:42-04:00

Common sense is sometimes required when you are walking. That means planning ahead, like making sure you are not "overburdened" by crap in your hands when you are walking. A cup of coffee is sure necessary to your performance as part of your duties (catch the sarcasm here? am I too subtle?) so maybe you were not quite as handicapped as you thought.

The CSM was trying to train you and maybe you need to listen a bit more closely. Hands in pockets, umbrellas and other bullshit are not reasons for not rendering honors! Get your head out of your binder and pay attention to what you are doing and you will get fewer ass chewings. Not too subtle, was I?

Response by MGySgt Jerome Lee made Sep 20 at 2021 6:50 AM

2021-09-20T06:50:30-04:00

100% of the time, the correct thing to do is put whatever you are carrying down and render the appropriate salute. Carrying a mug is not a satisfactory reason to not salute. If you are carrying some big or heavy things and is obvious to the approaching Officer that it doesn't make sence for you to put them down just to pick them right back up again, a reasonable person should understand the situation. Remember, that Officers earned that salute and it's proper military customs and courtesies for you to give them the respect. No matter what, make the effort to salute, unless in combat, indoors without a cover on, instructed not too by your chain of command or some competent authority.

Response by SGT Dan Theman made Sep 20 at 2021 10:29 AM

2021-09-20T10:29:44-04:00

There is no right answer to a power play. My suggestion is if you know this person to me rank narcissistic is to always salute with everything down on the ground and a formal salute rendered. That said you can always turn the binder vertical set the mug on top tender you salute retrieve your mug and carry on. Me, i would cross the street make no eye contact so as not to dignify “it” with a salute.
IMHO he knows..! Those who seek a salute know the never earned the respect of it so must demand it. If he earned your respect I’m quite sure you’d cross the street to salute a respected person of rank.
What ever you do don’t piss it off they’re carrier ending bite can be hazardous to promotions.

Response by PO3 Kathy Getchey made Sep 20 at 2021 11:42 AM

2021-09-20T11:42:46-04:00

Slap the binder under your left arm, coffee cup in your left hand. Abetted excuse would be carrying a Jeep engine in both hands.

Response by 1LT Steve Austin made Sep 20 at 2021 2:33 PM

2021-09-20T14:33:06-04:00

Same applies to a junior officer.

Response by SGM Willie Sanderson made Sep 20 at 2021 5:32 PM

2021-09-20T17:32:49-04:00

As a SGM myself the first thing I would ask you would have been why were you carrying a mug in your hand if you were outside moving from point A to B. The next comment would be to put the binder under your left arm and the mug in your left hand and salute the deserving officer with your now free hand. Then you and I would meet several evenings each week until ifelt comfortable you understood the purpose of rendering respect to the position the Captain holds. Its not some sort of game.

Response by Maj Wayne Crist made Sep 20 at 2021 7:09 PM

2021-09-20T19:09:20-04:00

A mug? Get your head up, you put yourself in a stupid position. if it was your second time you should have learned. Can't handle a binder and a mug in one hand? I have and render the salute.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Sep 20 at 2021 9:36 PM

2021-09-20T21:36:28-04:00

After reading your statement a few times just to wrap my head around what you said. Here is one of the best solutions to your dilemma. Stop walking. Adjust to have items in your left, especially if it's a binder. You can put mug in your left. Render the salute and greeting.

Stop playing Mickey Mouse games SGT. Leave that crap to the PVTs. Your not going to get sympathy from any Senior NCO's or Officers here. I might throw you a sniveling towel and tell you to Pull your head out of your collective a$$, correct your malfunction and move out smartly.

And remember, an ass chewing is just constructive criticism. Soldier on SGT.

Response by PO1 Mark Koenig made Sep 21 at 2021 12:23 AM

2021-09-21T00:23:44-04:00

Speaking from the Navy / Marine standards: It is appropriate to acknowledge the Officer, but a reasonable officer would accept your verbal recognition upon coming to a position of attention.
If I were the Officer approaching you, I would likely acknowledge the Marine or Sailor's fine work and salute him if the showed their intention to render honors.

You see , rendering honor in the form of a salute is part of our tradition. It is a special handshake of sorts and you can use it whenever you please to show your respect. Of course, some uniforms looks similar, you don't have your glasses, your foaming - whatever: A polite person will return the salute and say "I'm a Chief, but thanks anyway" or something like that.

That being said - if you can't balance a binder and a cup of coffee to render a salute then I am wondering about where your head is at.
Is that binder and personal comfort beverage more important than tradition that was in place before you were even part of dad's swim team? Give it some thought. It could be a stuck point that may limit career options for you down the road.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 21 at 2021 11:06 AM

2021-09-21T11:06:26-04:00

Argue the 670-1 with that moron CSM who obviously doesn't have anything better to do with his time.

Response by COL John Frederick made Sep 21 at 2021 3:42 PM

2021-09-21T15:42:57-04:00

Sooo…it’s not the officer demanding the salute, it’s the CSM. That is where we should focus our collective ire.

Response by Sgt James Garis made Sep 21 at 2021 9:29 PM

2021-09-21T21:29:56-04:00

Reprimanded or "talked to". This is Army vs USMC but if you are carrying those items I would assume you are indoor...no salute required (in the USMC) and you are a POG (which is ok). You were following the rules which would indicate you were not officially punished but just talked to by a bored E9 that is trying to keep the Capt happy. Don't stress the dumb stuff and carry on with your mission. Also, if you cannot carry a binder and a coffee mug in one hand, you need to PT a little bit (hehehe)

Response by CPL Thomas Rugg made Sep 22 at 2021 11:47 AM

2021-09-22T11:47:59-04:00

I just played situations by ear. If something I carried could easily be set down or if I had time to prepare (moving everything to my left hand), I would make the necessary changes and render a salute. More often than not, the officer would acknowledge my effort. When carrying something heavy/large/awkward, I would be sure to offer the proper greeting, half expecting to be reprimanded. If it's a verbal correction, it doesn't matter because saying "Yes sir/ma'am, I was wrong. I should've greeted you properly. Thank you for the opportunity to improve myself." Is an easy, albeit kiss-ass, way to diffuse the situation and move on.
As others have said, just avoid the situation if you can help it.

Response by SSgt Harold Moore made Sep 22 at 2021 5:49 PM

2021-09-22T17:49:11-04:00

You give a verbal salute, just let them know you acknowledge them. Hi sir or rank.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2021 11:29 PM

2021-09-22T23:29:03-04:00

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Sep 23 at 2021 7:39 AM

2021-09-23T07:39:24-04:00

If in their assessment(and you SHOULD know as well), that those items can be carried with reasonable comfort in your left hand, or shifting from your right to your left can be effectively done, you better do it.

Response by CW2 Michael Bodnar made Sep 23 at 2021 11:01 AM

2021-09-23T11:01:17-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member this just somehow popped up in my feed even though it's over 9 months old. Here's the verbiage straight out of AR 600-25. Pay attention to number (3):

Chapter 2
Salutes and Courtesies
2–1. Hand salutes and salutes with arms
i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical.
(4) Working as a member of a detail or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety
hazard.
(5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances.
(6) In the ranks of a formation.

Now, if you had items in both hands and they were full, you are NOT required to salute rather provide the greeting of the day. If you had a notebook binder and a drink (depending on how big the binder is) hold everything in your left hand and render a salute. If not, tactfully inform the CSM that according to AR 600-25 for the reasons above. If the CSM still digs in your butt, in my opinion, he is in the wrong.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Sep 23 at 2021 1:41 PM

2021-09-23T13:41:54-04:00

Coffee cup to left hand; binder under left arm ... SALUTE! The "hands occupied" exception is intended for someone actually performing work where stopping to salute would cause an issue, i.e., alligning a part onto equipment, for example. If the part was just a nut or bolt, stop and salute; if a cam shaft that's being placed, continue the job. Carrying a box that requires both hands, no salute; just a verbal greeting. A binder and a coffe cup ... nope!
While still a Medic, I "stretched" the exception to saluting, or even coming to attention. Gen. Westmoreland entered our Health Clinic (Ft. Myer, VA) and I was re-making the ambulance gurney. That and the fact that he was in civilan attire (suit) enabled me to ignore him. Why? I detested his role in Vietnam. Petty, I know, but back for just over a year I was "testy" about Vietnam. I've written about his absurd attitude during his visit before where he expected the on-duty MD to stop treating a child and tend to his cold/sniffles. When it didn't happen, he left in a huff. The guy didn't even carry his ID ... his Aide did!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2021 3:22 PM

2021-09-23T15:22:11-04:00

I do it all the time. Put the binder under your left arm and hold your coffee in your left hand. Render a salute.
It sounds, and probably appears, that this is the old "I had a thing in both hands" excuse. I suspect you are smart enough to figure this out.

Response by SPC Lucid Ifenuk made Sep 23 at 2021 4:51 PM

2021-09-23T16:51:43-04:00

Nope. Just turn around and walk the same direction they are going towards.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Sep 24 at 2021 12:34 AM

2021-09-24T00:34:30-04:00

Learn to set your mug on your binder.
Sorry, but for some, it would be better to drop your coffee, than not saluting.

Granted, it is another story when in the field or carrying equipment.
If you can make the effort.
In the field, you are "not supposed to", but sometimes you run into that individual officer.
In the field, the greeting of the day is always "Sniper Check".
You may get chewed a little, but the officer usually gets the point. Usually.
Remind him, that for his safety, it is not a good idea to salute in that environment.

Of course everything changes, when the guys with the stars start walking around. Then common sense does not apply.

Response by COL John Power made Sep 24 at 2021 11:20 AM

2021-09-24T11:20:25-04:00

Sounds to me like you are contriving a way to avoid the salute. Simple solution. Don't load up both hands unless you are carrying duty work. A coffee mug isn't that. If I were placed in that position I'd use the binder like a tray, place the mug on the tray, and salute. There are traditions and courtesies of the military services. Running to the AR to get the answer misses the whole point.

Response by PO1 Fred Anderson made Sep 24 at 2021 11:34 AM

2021-09-24T11:34:26-04:00

A binder? What kind of binder requires both hands?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 24 at 2021 12:01 PM

2021-09-24T12:01:23-04:00

The correct answer is, if both yours hands are legitimately indisposed, you still acknowledge the officer with the greeting of the day. If the officer's hands ars indisposed, you still salute him. He will acknowledge with the greeting of the day or some other signal.

Response by SFC Garry Kolberg made Sep 24 at 2021 12:50 PM

2021-09-24T12:50:48-04:00

What if the CPT was the one with both hands full would he be in the wrong to fail to return the salute?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2021 2:14 PM

2021-09-24T14:14:23-04:00

If you legitimately carrying heavy objects such as boxes or sandbags with both of your hands then I don't think anyone would expect you to salute. But sounds to me you are just trying to playing the system and avoid saluting. How hard is it to tuck the binder under your left arm then salute? If you still trying to pull Army Regulation with CSM on this then you deserve to be dropped.

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made Sep 24 at 2021 3:21 PM

2021-09-24T15:21:41-04:00

SGT Gianna Martin, I dont want to say this sounds like a “NEWBIE” thing, but when I joined back in the 1985, you move it to a different hand or arm, so that you can give that “SALUTE”. Some times an OFFICER in your unit will let that “SLIDE”, but I would not push a friendship. If I was you I go back to BASICS when doing things. I would have for you to get AT 15. If that happens that could take you off the promotion list, getting a better assignment (TDY - 90 day) or etc. Like a Country of CHOICE.

Response by CPT William Jones made Sep 24 at 2021 7:24 PM

2021-09-24T19:24:49-04:00

Many people are failing to read the full reg on saluting. The main thing is the part says not rewuired to salute if BOTH HANDS ARE OCCUPIED SO AS TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO SALUTE (my paraphrase). The first time she was stopped by a CSM she was told what she was doing was incorrect.(She was given the local commands reading of the reg) A mug in one hand binder she had in her hand do not qualify as a two hands to be occupied she must salute PER THE REGULATION. About the dumvest thing any service (all inclusive)member can do is continue doing something they have been clearly told is in violatin of regs and orders.IF YOU BELIVE YOU ARE BEING TOLD SOMETHING YOU WERE DOING IS SOME SORT OF VIOLATION tHAT IS THE TIME TO CHALLANGE THE PERSON.i HAVE DONE IT AND BEEN CORRECT TO INCLUDE cHALLANGING A MG GENERAL IN IS OFFICE.I was cleared to go and his offficer chief of section relieved and sent to a company line job. We were in RVN.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Sep 24 at 2021 7:46 PM

2021-09-24T19:46:02-04:00

The officer should have stated "Carry on Soldier" would have been the correct response. Also could have stopped and set down what was in your right hand and when the officer approaches, render the Salute and carry one.

Response by PO3 Robert Buckels made Sep 25 at 2021 3:07 AM

2021-09-25T03:07:14-04:00

Was this binder the size of a small car? Sounds like you could have tucked it under your left arm and held the cup with your left hand and rendered the salute. If this wasn't possible, then tell me I'm wrong and I'll scroll on by.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2021 10:36 AM

2021-09-25T10:36:19-04:00

Silliness, the rules are the rules. Hands are full, you don't salute.

Response by CPL William Koscher made Sep 25 at 2021 11:24 AM

2021-09-25T11:24:03-04:00

When in doubt, SALUTE!!!

Response by SSG David Angell made Sep 27 at 2021 1:02 AM

2021-09-27T01:02:47-04:00

Stop.. Put the mug in your left hand, with binder. Salute the Officer and move along.
Or as LTC Burch says, give the item that's in your right hand to the CSM and then salute the officer.
I think after that, the CSM will think about his attitude.
You think an officer would drop what's in his right hand and return a salute. Don't think so.
I have had the occasion of having an officer nod his head, while making eye contact with me. I saluted, nodded my head in acknowledgement and carried (moved) on.

Response by MSgt Wes Tracy made Sep 28 at 2021 8:08 PM

2021-09-28T20:08:11-04:00

If you have something in each hand, you don't salute. You only have two hands. Even a CSM can count to two. If the CPT was worth a shit, he would have corrected the CSM.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Nov 24 at 2021 1:12 PM

2021-11-24T13:12:10-05:00

RU kidding me? It made my day when I hand both hands occupied and some boot Ensign would try that crap and I would have to remind them that I didn't have to salute. I didn't get along with officer corps vey well especially the ones that pushed rank and thought their stuff didn't stink. It's amazing the stuff that get lost for a period of time that makes one's life miserable.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2021 7:08 PM

2021-11-27T19:08:16-05:00

Some NCOs once told me that it was my problem that I had my both hands busy. This is not correct, however, because the reg is clear. Logically, I would not expect someone to render a salute if their hands are busy. I will also not salute someone who outranks me and has his/her hands busy because, at the very least, it will create an awkward situation where the other person would want to salute back. It's kind of disrespectful.

Response by 2LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2021 9:01 AM

2021-11-28T09:01:05-05:00

The regs aren’t wrong, your CSM is. Did the CSM realize you had your hands full? I could easily see this being an oversight and they didn’t notice - but then again I doubt you’d be posting here asking if that was a possibility.

Response by CPL Cadrew Strickland made Nov 28 at 2021 10:08 PM

2021-11-28T22:08:08-05:00

When in doubt drop your things and salute. Better to be safe than sorry

Response by SSgt Mike Finch made Nov 29 at 2021 12:42 AM

2021-11-29T00:42:12-05:00

I notice the Army folks answer one way and others answer another. Are we talking a heavy 4" binder or a 1" binder that could easily be carried under your arm? We had those who would keep their hands "full" just so they wouldn't have to salute. That's pretty disingenuous and, no, it didn't fly. COULD you have carried both in one hand? Or, are soldiers imply prohibited from carrying anything that would require both hands?

Response by PO2 Christopher Foss made Nov 30 at 2021 8:19 PM

2021-11-30T20:19:27-05:00

Carry a copy of the applicable Reg with you, set down your cup, render the salute, then hand the CSM the Regulation.

You are not in a situation where following the order will cause problems (risk to life or property, etc), so you follow the order then dispel it.

Of course, you are likely to commit the cardinal sin of being too blatantly right against a superior which can be very problematic with people such as a CSM.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2021 10:43 AM

2021-12-02T10:43:37-05:00

FWIW (one in a long family list of military service): if easy to do move everything to your left to salute. However, if you’re obviously carrying/moving things, and getting work done, and anyone complains you didn’t salute they are wrong. Look me up in the GAL I’ll happily see them to see if they qualify for intellectual disability and need to be separated…

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2021 11:59 AM

2021-12-02T11:59:28-05:00

A mug does not really constitute an important enough item not to salute. Not even with an Army logo.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Dec 2 at 2021 12:08 PM

2021-12-02T12:08:14-05:00

As a lower grade person, You are always wrong. Even if you are right. The best you can do is try to shift every thing to your left hand.

Response by MAJ Phil Bundy made Dec 2 at 2021 7:01 PM

2021-12-02T19:01:44-05:00

The CSM needs to pull his head out of his butt. No, you are not required to drop everything to salute the CPT.

Response by MAJ Phil Bundy made Dec 2 at 2021 7:02 PM

2021-12-02T19:02:47-05:00

The CSM needs to pull his head out of his butt. No, you do not need to drop everything and salute the CPT.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Dec 2 at 2021 10:13 PM

2021-12-02T22:13:28-05:00

This is a clear example of one of the things wrong with our Army -- that we have someone apparently wearing the rank as a sergeant who goes out of her way to put things in both hands just so she can claim to have an excuse to avoid saluting, then comes here whining in the hope of finding support for her petty childish rant.

This is not the only such post we have seen on RallyPoint recently --- and we even have people voting up her question as if there were any actual question about why she has been verbally reprimanded at least twice for such deliberate misconduct.

Response by SGT Christopher Sigafoos made Dec 4 at 2021 12:33 AM

2021-12-04T00:33:15-05:00

From the point of view of the CSM, you can hold your mug in your left hand and put the binder under your left arm long enough to render a salute. The common interpretation of AR 600-25 is that you don't salute if you are carrying too many items or too large of one item.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Dec 5 at 2021 12:34 AM

2021-12-05T00:34:41-05:00

I’d try to shuffle stuff in my hands to L hand, come to attention & salute. HOWEVER., as an LTC in charge of my own department when deployed to LRMC, I’d often be in my office, working w/computer questions & phone calls. Fairly frequently, a senior officer would come into my office, early or late.
My own boss knew what I was doing & usually just wanted to touch base, say hi, or, more critically, get a fresh cup of coffee. However, when the new O-6 in charge of surgery arrived, apparently w/a stick still firmly implanted in his backside, PLUS the late 10/06 Navy replacements, things changed.
Good thing I remained focused on mission instead of ego’s. By the way, my LRMC commander, then COL, now BG (retired), made hospital rounds any time of day; often found me in front of copy machine, in office of our 24/7 ops, just “checking in” w/troops & staff, as he did throughout the hospital. Standing up, saying “hi, sir” & filling him in on what was going on, was all that was needed. The ICU & ward staff also knew he’d probably show up any time. The belief that he was checking up on us, “taking the temperature” of his hospital’s morale & function, was more precious than gold.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Dec 5 at 2021 3:43 PM

2021-12-05T15:43:10-05:00

No!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2021 4:23 AM

2021-12-06T04:23:06-05:00

first there are CSMs and there are E9s. This E9 should have been dressed down by the Cpt. That not happening LTC Burch's answer is great.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Dec 7 at 2021 5:15 PM

2021-12-07T17:15:42-05:00

No, you should not be required to salute. It might also be better to do the LTC says below to avoid trouble again.

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Dec 12 at 2021 4:06 PM

2021-12-12T16:06:51-05:00

Sgt Martin, you could have placed the binder under your left arm and still carry your coffee cup, and then you could have rendered a proper salute.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Dec 17 at 2021 7:59 PM

2021-12-17T19:59:48-05:00

You're gonna quote Army regs to the CSM? Good luck with that.

Response by SFC Bill Kurtz made Dec 17 at 2021 9:32 PM

2021-12-17T21:32:54-05:00

CSM wanted to show off his power to the officer. The services are chock full of this putzes.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Dec 18 at 2021 12:13 AM

2021-12-18T00:13:54-05:00

As usual, the Army has little better to do.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2021 7:02 PM

2021-12-18T19:02:03-05:00

Mug in left hand. Tuck the binder under your left arm and hold it to your side with your elbow. Salute with right hand. Just because you have two items and two hands doesn't mean you can't unencumber one of them for long enough to render a salute. If this is a frequent occurrence, carry a backpack. Arguing regs with a CSM isn't usually a career enhancing move, so the best course of action is to find a work around.

Response by SGT Robert Mcfadden made Dec 18 at 2021 8:30 PM

2021-12-18T20:30:32-05:00

You are a sergeant? You should know nothing in the right hand or be able to empty it in time to salute.

Response by SGT Tom Recupero made Dec 18 at 2021 10:42 PM

2021-12-18T22:42:43-05:00

Stop being a smart ass, drop the stuff and render the salute. At the end of the day. Everything is commander discretion.

Response by TSgt Howard Lorenz made Dec 20 at 2021 9:57 AM

2021-12-20T09:57:18-05:00

I have been in this same situation many times over my military career. What I always tried to do is make the attempt. They cannot fault you for that. Tuck that binder under your coffee holding arm and pop the salute, its not really that difficult. Now if you were carrying a box, thats different and the AR applies. Common sense goes a long ways.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2021 11:40 AM

2021-12-20T11:40:13-05:00

You all are look at this all wrong I go out of my way to salute officers when their hands are full and avoid them like the plague when I’m carrying stuff.

Response by Cpl Joseph Roberts made Dec 23 at 2021 11:10 AM

2021-12-23T11:10:27-05:00

You mean a smile and head nod aren't enough anymore?...sheesh!

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Dec 29 at 2021 8:13 PM

2021-12-29T20:13:42-05:00

Just remember you’re doing your part to keep the CSM out of pool halls!

Response by SSgt Carl Trimble made Dec 30 at 2021 9:29 AM

2021-12-30T09:29:51-05:00

You should at least say "By your leave, sir (or rank)

Response by MSgt Michael Asiatico made Dec 30 at 2021 5:28 PM

2021-12-30T17:28:01-05:00

Make a shelf with the binder in the left hand and place the cup on top with great balance, then render the salute. Some people carry a binder and/or other objects in both hands solely to avoid having to salute. In very few cases, some just feel self-entitled and want to pump their chest.

Response by SFC Lynn Santosuosso made Dec 30 at 2021 6:20 PM

2021-12-30T18:20:08-05:00

Yeah, the coffee cup is not the best reason to not salute… if you have to be in those situations and absolutely must have your coffee cup, then get a shoulder bag or something that you can put binders a paperwork in, carry your coffee in your left hand, and always keep your right hand free.

That’s basic training 101.

Response by SSG Dale London made Dec 30 at 2021 9:34 PM

2021-12-30T21:34:22-05:00

If you are not fond of being chewed out by the CSM for not saluting an officer then stop carrying stuff in your right hand. Forget what the regs say. If you go spouting AR 600-25 to the CSM he's going to figure you for a barracks lawyer and watch you like a hawk for the smallest infraction. Then he's going to come down on you like a ton of bricks, all in accordance with to your precious regs, and he will be completely squared away when he does. Do yourself a huge favor and just avoid the problem by planning ahead. Keep your salutin' hand empty.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2021 11:10 PM

2021-12-30T23:10:53-05:00

Well, there is a solution: come to attention, call out, "by your leave sir", and await his physical or verbal salute. If he does not return a salute, remain at attention and call out, "by your leave sir", again. If that CSM is there, again, give the officer a verbal blessing, "Sir, have a blessed day". If the CSM questions your only giving to the officer, remind him you are to address the senior in the group, not the junior, and move out.

Response by SPC Dave Loeffler made Jan 13 at 2022 8:45 AM

2022-01-13T08:45:24-05:00

Stop setting yourself up for failure, the rules are unchanged. The salute is a greeting between professionals. Get a back pack to carry stuff and leave he right hand free for greeting.

Response by SPC Daniel Dresen made Jan 14 at 2022 6:28 PM

2022-01-14T18:28:18-05:00

If you are able to free up your hand, you render proper courtesy, and I can carry a binder and mug with one arm, but saluting is no longer an issue for me. If you had, say, an 80 pound bag of cement or it was multiple binders... you'd have a better argument. Or... avoid officers accompanied by NCOs.

Response by LTC David Howard made Jan 16 at 2022 11:01 AM

2022-01-16T11:01:56-05:00

The right tactic is to never be walking out of doors with items in both hands. Limit what you carry to the left hand only, so that you are always capable of rendering a proper hand salute to any and all officers. Maybe you will have to make more than one trip. Even if you are protected by the provisions of the regulation, you well might be viewed by your superiors as being a wise ass trying to avoid saluting. Is that worth the convenience of carrying a mug of coffee?

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Jan 16 at 2022 3:05 PM

2022-01-16T15:05:17-05:00

Stick with AR 600-25. The CSM needs to read it. So should the captain as he should have known that. I'm sure it was covered when he was an ROTC/Academy cadet or Officer Candidate. It was for me.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jan 16 at 2022 3:26 PM

2022-01-16T15:26:16-05:00

If it looked to the SGM like you could shift items between hands and still salute, that might be what his beef was about. If both hands were so full you could not shift items. I have no idea what was going through his mind. However, there are people that dodge salutes to Officers just as there are people that dodge standing at attention at retreat outdoors. That might have been what was on the SGM mind at the time? Don't know and just throwing this out there.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2022 3:34 PM

2022-01-16T15:34:29-05:00

Reply with the greeting of the day and then send the CSM the excerpt of the regulation. This is an easy fix.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2022 4:17 PM

2022-01-16T16:17:45-05:00

If you are carrying a box of photocopy paper or something that requires both hands, then the officer(s) will understand. If you see 3 LTCs and One Colonel, say Good Morning Colonel and Gentlemen/Lady etc. I dislike when I hear enlisted say 'Sirs'.

Some of these officers have type A personality of idiots. I would just say good afternoon sir or ma'am, chaplain or general. They will NOT get mad as long as you acknowledge them. If they have to lock you up like a drill sergeant, maybe they have mental issues.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jan 16 at 2022 7:14 PM

2022-01-16T19:14:58-05:00

AR 600-25 states? IF you know this reg and can quote it, there must be a reason. If you follow the intent and not the letter, MAYBE you will not get as many reprimands as you have. Promotions often do not go to Sea Lawyers (IDK the army term), but I know you get the idea.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2022 8:59 PM

2022-01-16T20:59:08-05:00

Both of my hands were full when a one star walked by and there was no issue with me not saluting him.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2022 11:32 PM

2022-01-16T23:32:26-05:00

Place the binder under your left arm, transfer the coffee mug to your left hand, give the required salute, and continue on.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Jan 17 at 2022 6:17 AM

2022-01-17T06:17:01-05:00

the CSM was wrong and out of line if your hands were full. But let it go you learned how not to NCO.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2022 7:41 PM

2022-01-22T19:41:03-05:00

If you are unable to render or return a salute, the greeting of the day is sufficient. Your CSM is wrong.

I used to pull aside young lieutenants, hands full, trying to return my salute and brief them on the AR 600-25.

Saluting is a sign of respect, not stupidity.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Jan 24 at 2022 11:54 AM

2022-01-24T11:54:17-05:00

If it is at all Possible you should move everything from your right hand and give the Salute with the
Greeting of the Day, if it is imposable because you are on a work Detail, the person in charge of the work Detail gives the Hand Salute with the Greeting of the Day. if it is completely Impossible to Give a Hand Salute due to your hands being Full you can stop come to attention and give the greeting of the Day, or Continue Walking and Give the Greeting of the Day, or stop set your Items down and give the Hand Salute with the Greeting o the day. none of these are the wrong answer.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Jan 24 at 2022 12:16 PM

2022-01-24T12:16:34-05:00

Sometimes these are minor dams in the river of life. Deal with it and move on. Not a big deal either way in my not so humble opinion. :-)

Response by PVT Paul Vary made Jan 24 at 2022 5:42 PM

2022-01-24T17:42:15-05:00

When I was in basic training, I was going home on leave and as I was walking to my transport, I was stopped by a drill sergeant who advised me to carry items in my left hand so that I could render a salute if an officer happened by.

Response by MSgt Nancy Wilson made Jan 24 at 2022 6:31 PM

2022-01-24T18:31:33-05:00

Was that a 50 pound binder and a gallon mug????

Response by SGT Javier Silva made Jan 24 at 2022 7:25 PM

2022-01-24T19:25:24-05:00

The proper answer is to give the officer the greeting of the day. You do not have to empty your hand just because someone has an ego (this time the CSM). You did technically the right thing; however, remember that if you can transfer one item from one hand to the other, and it won't cause you any grief, just do it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 3:46 AM

2022-01-25T03:46:34-05:00

I got hemmed up by the commanding O-6 on a deployment for not saluting him as I passed him. Both his hands were occupied and he could not have returned my salute - which he MUST do if saluted. so I gave the greeting of the day and this Jack wagon stopped me and insisted that I salute him and then he turned and walked away without returning my salute. His little weasel of a CSM contacted my CSM and tried to stir the pot on me but I cited the reg. and my CSM totally had my back and told the weasel to plus up his Colonel on military customs and courtesies!!

Response by PO3 Alphonso Everett made Jan 25 at 2022 2:38 PM

2022-01-25T14:38:56-05:00

The right response is depends. It LARGELY depends upon what you are caring. Also, your awareness of higher ranking members. If you cannot salute; sometimes, an apology with a respectful aknowledgment / response goes a long way.

Response by TSgt Frank Romo made Jan 26 at 2022 4:33 PM

2022-01-26T16:33:49-05:00

I once passed a 2nd Lt coming out of the BX, he stopped me cause I hadn’t saluted him. He asked why, I indicated he was out of uniform. He blurted he wasn’t, I pointed to his head and asked where was his cover (hat). As I kept walking away…

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jan 26 at 2022 7:27 PM

2022-01-26T19:27:13-05:00

So for having a binder and a coffee mug you could have put that down and render a salute. Its a binder and a mug. Now if it was something heavy or you and your battle buddy were moving something that you need both hands on and heavy then yes at that point it would be ok not render a salute. Keep in mind that you still need to give greeting of the day. Basically (again I have been in this situtation plenty of times) when you have something in your hands that is heavy or fragile or really not practical on putting down, greeting of the day and apologies go a long way. Any one out there please correct me if I'm wrong. Having a binder or 2 coffee mugs in your hand yea you can put that on the ground for a few secs and render the salute. Most of the time (in my years in) if you show that your making the effort to go out your way to render that most officers will say "Carry on (your rank)" then you would say "Thank you Sir or Ma'am." Again this may not work for every officer and I'm not making myself out to be that perfect Soldier but I did try like hell to give every officer the respect that they deserve. Once your unit knows that it goes a very long way for little things like rendering a salute with in your hand not a big deal. But make sure that respect factor is there

Response by PFC Chad Ricker made Jan 28 at 2022 10:40 AM

2022-01-28T10:40:06-05:00

Based on some of the comments, my chain of command must have been really chill about it. I was caught carrying CRT monitors, computer towers, and all sorts of other bulky equipment. I would greet the officer by rank and apologize for not being able to salute. The reply was always along the lines of "carry on" or "don't worry about it."

Response by SP5 Dennis Umade made Jan 28 at 2022 11:05 PM

2022-01-28T23:05:31-05:00

I don't know the regulations but I believe you did what was reasonable and appropriate under the circumstances.

Response by Col Robert Wallace made Jan 30 at 2022 10:51 PM

2022-01-30T22:51:13-05:00

Unless I am mistaken, there seems to be a lax of common sense on the part of the EM with the binder & a cup of coffee. Knowing that being in uniform & location dictates the possibility of walking past an officer is more than likely, it is incumbent upon the Enlisted to insure the right hand is free. In the instance where both hands are required to carry something, then the salute in not necessary. In this case, why wasn't the binder carried under the left arm & the coffee cup in the left hand? Another thing - why was the EM holding a coffee cup while walking? And this was a second reprimand for the same type of situation? Sorry Sgt M., you are not the "victim" in this scenario & definitely in the wrong. Do not quote any Articles from the CMJ unless you fully understand them.

Response by SSG William M Davis made Jan 31 at 2022 10:02 AM

2022-01-31T10:02:00-05:00

AR 600-25 is gospel. Back in the day a simple “By your leave, sir” would suffice. You obviously encountered a hard assed Sergeant Major trying to make his stripes.

Response by CMSgt David Bridge made Jan 31 at 2022 11:47 AM

2022-01-31T11:47:30-05:00

Come on. Stick the binder under your arm with the coffee cup and show proper respect. If you were carrying a 50 lb box with both hands it would be respectable to not salute.

Response by SGT John Overby made Jan 31 at 2022 1:16 PM

2022-01-31T13:16:55-05:00

The right answer is: Put the cup and binder into the left hand. That is if you can walk and chew gum for training to carry two items.

Response by SP6 James Lopez made Jan 31 at 2022 9:02 PM

2022-01-31T21:02:17-05:00

I think that the officer should understand, but I am old school. I would say, put yourself in my position

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Feb 1 at 2022 10:50 PM

2022-02-01T22:50:27-05:00

I probably would have put the cup in my left hand and the binder under my left arm if possible and saluted to avoid confrontation

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2022 5:12 PM

2022-02-04T17:12:25-05:00

If it is reasonable to put your coffee cup in your left hand with your binder. And render a salute then you do so. Exception if your carrying a larg box that you can not free up your right hand then no. But you schould give the greeting if the day. Such as good morning sir.

Response by MAJ Craig McNeil made Feb 5 at 2022 11:12 PM

2022-02-05T23:12:01-05:00

In the Army, you can give the greeting of the day and you’re okay. Me, I’d put my stuff down.

Response by PO2 Troy Boyle made Feb 27 at 2022 1:22 PM

2022-02-27T13:22:21-05:00

Slip the binder under your left arm and salute like you know you're supposed to.

Response by SFC Gerald Schulz made Feb 27 at 2022 2:56 PM

2022-02-27T14:56:08-05:00

The right answer is in AR 600-25. No, you are not required. However, advice from a former enlisted career soldier. SGM especially CSM don't get promoted by merit. The only thing E9s are there for is to point out petty shit that no one else cares about. The CSM was showing off (kissing ass) for the CPT. Just take the ass chewing and be proud of it. In the military if your not pissing off some SGMs or CSMs your probably not doing much.

Response by MAJ Don Taylor made Feb 27 at 2022 7:22 PM

2022-02-27T19:22:56-05:00

One can either focus on when one is not required to salute, and maybe continue to get grief, OR figure how to manage things so one can greet a superior appropriately. This is true in the military, where a hand salute is required, and in civilian life, where other forms of recognition show one to be savvy or a clod.

Had I been you—since I am averse to being yelled at by Sergeants Major for a second time—I would have tucked my binder under my left arm where I used to carry it in high school, put my mug in my left hand, and cheerfully saluted.

Now, had I a load of binders precariously balanced in each arm, I would have stopped, said “apologies I can’t salute with all these binders in my arms”, and hoped I wouldn’t catch grief again.

But better would have been to have some forethought, put those binders in a bag, leaving my hand free to open doors, greet friends, and salute as appropriate. And left my mug behind in saluting areas,

Response by MAJ Raymond W. Levesque made Feb 27 at 2022 7:52 PM

2022-02-27T19:52:46-05:00

Are you really using carrying a mug is an excuse not to salute? Tuck the binder under your armpit and carry the mug in your left hand

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2022 7:56 AM

2022-02-28T07:56:35-05:00

I've known troops that purposefully carry items I both hands to avoid saluting. A binder and a mug? Really? I'll have to agree with the CSM

Response by SP5 John Burleson made Feb 28 at 2022 12:34 PM

2022-02-28T12:34:29-05:00

No, you don't have to salute when your hands are full--under certain conditions. Binders and coffee mugs aren't on that list of conditions. An alternative is to stand at attention and greet the officer. If he gets miffy, pour the coffee on him.

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made Mar 1 at 2022 1:17 AM

2022-03-01T01:17:15-05:00

I won't speak for AR 600-25, but I will speak for myself. Military courtesy is a two way street. I've seen soldiers having your conundrum, hands full, and I "returned" the salute required by military customs and courtesy; I knew the soldier would have saluted, so I returned it.

Response by SMSgt Philip Kluberdanz made Mar 2 at 2022 1:40 PM

2022-03-02T13:40:43-05:00

I once worked with an airman who was the epitome of a bad fit in the military.
His direct supervisor was a civilian who allowed Airman Snuffy to attend college classes during duty hours, because he was such a PITA. Also, the duty section was 300% manned.
Guess what? Airman Snuffy became 2Lt Snuffy.
I watched him change direction towards me one day as I was walking into the BX. I took my wallet in one hand, my keys in the other, nodded and said “Afternoon, Lou” and went on my merry way.

Response by SGT Shane Serna made Mar 2 at 2022 7:21 PM

2022-03-02T19:21:51-05:00

Yes in most cases. The officer will understand the cases that you cannot salute.

Response by 2d Lt Gaile Bryant made Mar 3 at 2022 1:43 AM

2022-03-03T01:43:03-05:00

Yes.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 3 at 2022 11:19 AM

2022-03-03T11:19:16-05:00

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse not to salute. Anyone who has worn the uniform knows you should endeavor to ensure your right hand is un encumbered and at the ready to render a salute. Of course civilians do not salute you do have that option.

Response by SSG(P) Brian Kliesen made Mar 3 at 2022 12:19 PM

2022-03-03T12:19:19-05:00

You are clearly within regulation. However... whenever possible try not to carry anything in your right hand so that you can render a salute when required. Unfortunately, every branch of the service has this issue and it comes down to poor leadership. If you are using it as a crutch so you don't have to salute, you will be called out on it. If you actively and legitimately have your hands full and cannot render a salute, hopefully they will recognize it and let you pass with the greeting. Do Not hand the cup to the CSM to render the salute, that would be bad. If they make a big deal about it, you'll have to come up with a solution. CSM's do this all the time, to inflate their ego and legitimize their importance. Obviously, in their minds they are more important than you are and will require the courtesy being given regardless of the situation.

Response by PVT Robert Cameron made Mar 3 at 2022 1:32 PM

2022-03-03T13:32:38-05:00

At least acknowledge them, but no you don't and any officer expecting you to drop everything to salute them doesn't deserve their rank. Officer's should remember that enlisted don't salute during war time or even salute higher ranking enlisted.And remember one key thing. You are only Saluting out of respect for rank. If you ain't in my unit, I don't have to respect you and any officer trying to force you to salute with an arm load isn't an officer, they are power starved POGs.

Response by MAJ David Stokes made Mar 4 at 2022 7:44 AM

2022-03-04T07:44:54-05:00

Why didn't you put the binder under your left arm pit and render proper courtesy? What you did was a slime ball move and the CSM KNEW IT! That's why HE called you out on it.

Response by PO1 Robert Adams made Mar 4 at 2022 9:13 PM

2022-03-04T21:13:54-05:00

That 1 good thing about the Navy, you do not salute indoors unless you are under arms. You also don't salute uncovered.

Response by CPL Theodore Moore made Mar 12 at 2022 10:52 AM

2022-03-12T10:52:18-05:00

can you put the mug in the other hand? There is really someone that has time to worry about stuff like this? If I were you, I'd apologize and point out that your carrying these items. Bring your rule book with you figuratively at least and be ready to justify it as politlely as possible

Response by PO2 Ronnie Chandler made Mar 30 at 2022 4:31 PM

2022-03-30T16:31:18-04:00

Most respectable Officers will acknowledge your situation and tell you at ease before you start fumbling

Response by David De Pue made Apr 7 at 2022 9:30 AM

2022-04-07T09:30:45-04:00

I was taught that your right hand should be free at all times

Response by Sgt C S made Apr 7 at 2022 12:01 PM

2022-04-07T12:01:27-04:00

A binder and a mug? Transfer the mug to your left hand and salute.

Response by MAJ Jeffrey Johnson made Apr 7 at 2022 2:36 PM

2022-04-07T14:36:47-04:00

Nope! I reprimanded one of my lieutenants for chewing out one of my soldiers when the private didn't put down a box he was carrying and saluting the lieutenant.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Apr 7 at 2022 11:05 PM

2022-04-07T23:05:25-04:00

For one the mug should have been left behind. But this could go two ways. Should have adjusted to the left hand / arm. The officer could have replied "Carry On" and you great the officer with "Good Day, Good Morning, Good After Noon or Good Evening"

Response by Cpl Brad MarkW made Apr 8 at 2022 5:53 AM

2022-04-08T05:53:59-04:00

I've been out a long time but I recall being instructed to not carry anything in your right hand. Otherwise on working parties, one Marine, usually an NCO would call everyone to attention. Everyone stops what they are doing, comes to as close to the the position of attention without dropping anything, and the NCO salutes.

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Apr 8 at 2022 7:58 AM

2022-04-08T07:58:17-04:00

CSM just being a CSM. If your hands are full and you can't adjust then no need to salute, but do give a greeting to acknowledge the officer.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2022 8:46 AM

2022-04-08T08:46:40-04:00

First of all, saluting is not a chore. It's a privilege. It's you demanding a return salute recognizing you both as professionals.

Response by SFC Leslie Parker made Apr 8 at 2022 1:35 PM

2022-04-08T13:35:22-04:00

that is right

Response by SSgt Mathew Cummings made Apr 8 at 2022 2:23 PM

2022-04-08T14:23:22-04:00

According to the Army manual, you do not have to render more than a verbal greeting when both hands are occupied in a laborious task and attempting to render a salute could cause danger or harm. USMC SOP was nothing in the right hand in garrison when saluting was appropriate. Drop blouse and cover when saluting was going to be dangerous.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2022 3:56 PM

2022-04-08T15:56:46-04:00

Normally I would say who cares. An attempt at proper costumes was made so good enough.

I think however it really depends on the situation. Would it have been easy to consolidate both items in one hand? If yes then you probably should have.

In this case it's hard to say. How big was the binder, how big was the mug, did it have a lid, was it full of coffee or empty, etc.

That's why I don't bother trying to "correct" people on situations like this

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2022 8:31 PM

2022-04-08T20:31:17-04:00

As some one who’s been on both sides of this technically no. However where the CSM may have gotten you is could the binder and mug been carried in the same hand, the last part is “so occupied as to make saluting impractical.”

Response by SFC Carl Blount made Apr 9 at 2022 11:31 AM

2022-04-09T11:31:14-04:00

Read the Regulations for your branch of service. However I think they are likely to be all the same on this subject, YES. You cannot go wrong following the Regulation.

Response by SMSgt Kent Brown made Apr 9 at 2022 10:43 PM

2022-04-09T22:43:59-04:00

The right answer is what the regulation says. Keep a copy in your pocket for the officers who can find it for themselves.

Response by SPC Michael Herron made Apr 9 at 2022 10:46 PM

2022-04-09T22:46:36-04:00

I agree with the LTC on this one. If the CSM wants to reprimand anybody, then fine. Have the CSM or whatever enlisted lower rank to hold the article in your right hand and salute the officer if it’s that big of a deal to that officer. I know a CW3 who gets tired of saluting all the time. So if the Cpt doesn’t have a superiority complex, the captain will understand.

Response by LTC Philip DeCara made Apr 10 at 2022 6:34 PM

2022-04-10T18:34:03-04:00

With small object move to left hand and render a salute. Large objects render a verbal greeting...common sense abd respect.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Apr 10 at 2022 6:36 PM

2022-04-10T18:36:09-04:00

Sounds like your CSM has a bad case of self-importance!

Response by Maj Howard Charleboix made Apr 10 at 2022 9:15 PM

2022-04-10T21:15:02-04:00

Your hand were not issued anything to hold. They should be free….

Response by SFC Jacob Carpenter made Apr 10 at 2022 9:31 PM

2022-04-10T21:31:42-04:00

Greeting of the day is all that is required. If your CSM is too stupid to read the regulation, he is defiantly too stupid to be a CSM.

Response by SFC Jacob Carpenter made Apr 10 at 2022 9:32 PM

2022-04-10T21:32:21-04:00

Snip

Response by MSgt Kevin Carr made Apr 11 at 2022 5:17 AM

2022-04-11T05:17:15-04:00

You are correct. If your hands are full you are not required to render a salute.

Response by CW5 William Gasaway made Apr 11 at 2022 8:44 AM

2022-04-11T08:44:11-04:00

Before I retired as a CW5, I had a lot of problems with this issue in my career. Once I made warrant, I instructed my troops in this way. The salute you offer me is a courteous greeting and a reflection of your acknowledgment that I a your superior officer. Personally, I don't give a damn if you salute me or not, but you damn well better acknowledge my presence with a verbal greeting that utilizes the words Chief or sir. That accomplishes the salute's mission. We are here to accomplish a mission and NOT satisfy someone's ego. That said, the regulation is the regulation so if someone else is around then I then I heartily recommend that you salute. If you have both hands full revert to the verbal greeting as we don't compromise the mission. If someone gives you grief about that tell me and I'll explain my instructions to him. I had a CPT read me the riot act about it once and my boss, the Logistics Chief, heard him. He interrupted and asked the CT if he knew what LTC's did when CWO's speak. The CPT answered no and the LTC replied, We shut up and listen. If you want to make MAJ I suggest you learn the lesson.
You have to bee careful as some people don't understand the intent or purpose of the rule, but if you meet those two things you will generally be OK.

Response by TSgt Robert Wayne made Apr 11 at 2022 3:06 PM

2022-04-11T15:06:06-04:00

It appears that if you hold your mug in left hand you can possibly shift you binder to under your left arm, render the salute then grab binder into your right hand again. If it takes both hands to carry an object like a box etc then the regulations apply. In other words, if you're able to carry your items in a way that you can accommodate a salute, then do that. You're citing the regulation to us about when it is ok not to salute. When you're confronted with the lack of salute again, cite the regulation to that officer. Regulations take precedent over officers ego.

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Apr 12 at 2022 8:53 PM

2022-04-12T20:53:21-04:00

I would remind the individual what the regulations say. You might also want to report apparent harassment through the chain of command.

Response by LCpl Duane Gardner made Apr 12 at 2022 11:00 PM

2022-04-12T23:00:44-04:00

You ALWAYS keep your saluting hand free, as this is your second time that this situation has happened I feel you need to be more aware of your situation and surroundings and anticipate these type of encounters in garrison.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Apr 13 at 2022 3:52 PM

2022-04-13T15:52:08-04:00

Okay this is a non-issue. I get getting an ass chewing once, but twice? Last time I checked a binder and a cup could both be carried using one arm. If that is too much of a challenge then I recommend getting a backpack and a spill proof cup. If your CSM has gotten on your case twice I'm sure he/she has made their expectations clear it's time to adapt. Id be more open minded if it was simply a butter bar, but I think it's safe to say your CSM has been around long enough that as long as you weren't walking on grass the correction is justified.

Response by SPC David Young made Apr 13 at 2022 9:05 PM

2022-04-13T21:05:54-04:00

This is basic Military courtesy, crossed with common sense. All you had to do was free up your right hand for a couple of seconds to render an Officer the courtesy that he or she is due. You're an NCO in the Army and you don't understand that?

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Apr 13 at 2022 9:07 PM

2022-04-13T21:07:07-04:00

In one word No.

Response by SGT Dan Wirtz made Apr 15 at 2022 10:42 AM

2022-04-15T10:42:57-04:00

Binder under the left arm and Coffee in the left hand. I do not see how this could be that hard. If you are carrying something larger that requires both arms as part of your duty then you give the greeting of the day and drive on.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Apr 16 at 2022 4:04 PM

2022-04-16T16:04:14-04:00

Sgt, I can tell you this. If I were passing you by, I would not expect a salute, but what I would expect would be a friendly greeting. I can also tell you this. Some folks are overtaken with glittering gold that their critical thinking skills become non-functional. To require any enlisted person to drop the materials they are carrying just for a salute flies in the face of good leadership principles. I wonder if the CSM would have jacked the SM of the Army? I doubt it. I would have jacked the CSM for poor leadership and asked him to mentally reassess the situation. Ask the CSM if he would take whatever you were holding in your right hand and then render a salute, recover your gear, and thank the CSM. However, this is a teachable moment for you both regarding good leadership.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2022 8:40 PM

2022-04-16T20:40:42-04:00

Well what I would say. If u got in trouble for it once that should have sent u a message. And having read regulations b4 I would say go back and read them cause my guess is u didn't read what constitutes as being an article in the Army.
I grew up in a military family. My dad was a lifer. Meaning that when he said something u not only listened and did exactly what he said or u got in trouble for lazy listening and that hurt.

When I went in I was offerered OCS and I asked some people about it and one told me to check out the regs. read them and tell them what I was going to do.
Well one phrase really stood out. THEY CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION UR SCHOOLING. And that is exactly the way it was worded. That Can means they do not have to so u have to really look at the way things are worded and what each word Can or Could mean.
And I would tell u that if ur still carrying things in both hands ur a fool and if ur going to keep pushing it ur going to start losing money and maybe more.
Oh and like people have given advise to guys that are rejoining the military after being out for a spell. While at basic keep ur head low, do exactly what they tell u and like my dad said to me when I went in, do not volunteer for anything while in basic or they will work u to death.

When ur in Perm Party its not necessarily a bad thing to get noticed but it better be for doing things right and right now ur name is getting around in a bad context. And no matter if the regs back u like u think they do or not. When u have to work for Others they may only have heard ur a trouble maker and u will get treated as such.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Apr 17 at 2022 3:01 AM

2022-04-17T03:01:50-04:00

The correct answer is whatever that CSM says I’d the correct answer. Not a hill worth dying on.

Response by AA Loreen Silvarahawk made May 15 at 2022 4:35 PM

2022-05-15T16:35:29-04:00

I was leading my group of Ladies back to the barracks. I called for a shift of everything into left hands and saluted the Officer and then carried on.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2022 11:19 AM

2022-05-16T11:19:57-04:00

Gl arguing with the CSM. What are you looking for here?
The reg says you don’t have to , the CSM gave his interpretation. Take a chewing and move on.

Response by SFC Darwin Maring made May 16 at 2022 11:37 AM

2022-05-16T11:37:07-04:00

You can quote regulations to show you are in the right or you can apologize, put it down, stand at attention and render the salute then not suffer the future BS you will encounter by being correct.

Response by SFC Charles Dennis made May 16 at 2022 9:03 PM

2022-05-16T21:03:05-04:00

How about leaving the coffee cup behind if it interferes with your ability to render proper customs and courtesies. After you drop of your other items, you can go back for that beloved coffee cup. Always think ahead.

Response by SPC Jerome Henehan made May 17 at 2022 9:33 PM

2022-05-17T21:33:39-04:00

If both your hands are legitimately occupied, an acknowledgement of the officer with a courtesy of the day would be respectful of his rank. An officer should appreciate your circumstances.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made May 18 at 2022 4:33 PM

2022-05-18T16:33:56-04:00

Typical Garrison silliness!!! I would always tell my troops to just give the greeting of the day... don't fumble things just to render a salute. That's not being disrespectul, it's being safe and practical. I had some troops with a baby in one hand and diaper bag in another... don't drop the baby!!! Anybody who feels heartburn about really needing a salute in that kind of situation should stand in front of the mirror and salute themselves.

Response by SSgt Bryon Ater made May 19 at 2022 11:07 AM

2022-05-19T11:07:45-04:00

Depends on the articles in hand. Both hands required to carry a package or several based on weight then you can acknowledge the respect that is due to the particular Ranks. In this situation the binder could have been placed under the arm for security and the cup move to the non-saluting hand, which will able you to salute.

Response by SSG Chris Dotson made May 19 at 2022 1:21 PM

2022-05-19T13:21:32-04:00

Yeah it is insultingly stupid sometimes. I was being med-evac from Camp Casey Korea back to a stateside hospital for surgery. Had to do all the outprocessing and get the stamps and signatures to allow me to depart the country. My right arm was in a sling, and while outprocessing the post office, I passed an officer and gave a greeting of the day to him. He passed by a couple paces and then turns around to correct my PVT error. He asked if in Basic Training are they still teaching that a Pvt should salute an officer? I was utterly in shock and just attempted a feeble attempt at a salute with my arm in a sling and offer an appolgy. The look on his face was enough embarssement that he did not realize I was carrying my outproccessing paperwork in my un-injured hand. I still wished he would have appologiezed for not recognizing my failure to salute was not out of disrespect. Believe me my short 3 month stay in Korea was not the best experience in my Military Career. Prior to the injury I was stopped and asked why I didnt salute an officer. Well, sir, I been in country a few weeks, just got my pass priveleges, and that person is in civilian clothes. How do I know they are an officer? I don't need a 1SG or CSM bitching at me for saluting them when they are in civilian attire.

Response by CPT James Burkholder made May 19 at 2022 3:00 PM

2022-05-19T15:00:43-04:00

I was a medical officer, "drafted", volunteered in 1965. Stationed in Korea but felt a need to go to RVN. There had a dispensary until given command of a medical clearing co. I stayed there for 18 months because I feared I would not be able to live in the "stateside army". No, I was never a "real" soldier but the shˆt like whether to salute if you'e got stuff in both hands is why I stayed in Vietnam.

Response by SPC Ramon Feliciano made May 19 at 2022 3:46 PM

2022-05-19T15:46:11-04:00

As I recall if you have your hands occupies all you have to say is good morning or afternoon and by your leave

Response by SGT Edwin Cruz Reyes made May 20 at 2022 5:27 PM

2022-05-20T17:27:34-04:00

For one, you could have move your binder to your left hand under your arm pit and carry the mug on your left hand. 2) avoid brass like a plague 3)become an officer and see how you like it. 4)why is saluting so hard?

Response by Maj Charles Porter made May 21 at 2022 9:32 PM

2022-05-21T21:32:03-04:00

Saluting is an honer between men (persons) of arms. If you can't or won't salute first, Sergeant: I will salute and great you. However this sounds like this is a habitual occurrence. Perhaps YOU should not carry anything in your right hand while walking about.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made May 22 at 2022 6:40 PM

2022-05-22T18:40:14-04:00

Theoretically, in the days just after the Earth had cooled but before dinosaurs walked the Earth, one exercised common sense and never encoumbered themselves with a double armful of junk. Ever wonder why there were all those bag people at the Commissary that would take your groceries out to the car? It was so you were never encombered so much that you couldn't salute someone of a higher rank. You can always bring a small "wheele" case to work and load all your stuff in that and pull it with your left hand and voila, you have a saluting hand free. As a SGT, you could detail a private or corporal to help you if this becomes a problem and if you are the senior member, you can salute for both of you or all three. Most officers recognize that you may be encoumbered and your verbal greeting or a nod or such will suffice for them and you both continue on. Then there are the few dogmatists that will insist on being saluted no matter what. Unfortunately the salute recognizes the rank and not the individual, the job he is doing, or the character of the individual. I believe there is a codicel to saluting which may be invoked but you would have to look at an AFM prior to using it. In the Air Force, we were not allowed to salute on the flight line as it compromised safety and detracted from the diligance of knowing where aircraft and vehicles were. You didn't wear any cover either as it could blow off and become aircraft engine FOD which could render an aircraft NMR. The other was saluting indicated to a potential enemy who the commanding officer was in your group. In order to protect him, you did not salute. One might want to envoke an aire of "Train the way you fight", and employ a verbal greeting as opposed to saluting which could be detrimental in a combat zone as well as an EEFI that could be used in a force status report (classified document).

Response by CDR William Kempner made May 22 at 2022 10:18 PM

2022-05-22T22:18:51-04:00

It depends on what you're doing. In your case, If you could combine the two items in your left hand, that would be best , or failing that, set one down and salute. If you were in a work party, or obviously occupied, you'd be excused. A good rule of thumb,"Unless you CANT, you SHOULD. MOST seniors appreciate that extra moment you take to "render honors" . Look at it as a military way of saying HELLO!!

Response by SGT Claudio Razzetti made May 24 at 2022 11:38 AM

2022-05-24T11:38:25-04:00

AR is always right ,you can't take away from regs .it happened to me a few times, as a courtesy i would acknowledge the officer ,by greeting of the day .

Response by SSgt James Mathews made May 30 at 2022 2:20 PM

2022-05-30T14:20:31-04:00

Well, maybe someday the CSM will fulfill his need for power. Let it be a lesson that in any organization there is and will always be a need for someone to feel tyrannical. As your life continues you will remember this and it will make you a better leader.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Jun 22 at 2022 12:59 PM

2022-06-22T12:59:21-04:00

Really! You're a Sergeant! For God's Sake! Your action and excuse are just pure laziness and lame, tuck the binder under your left arm and place the coffee (you shouldn't be carrying outdoors) into your left hand and render the Salute! Just how difficult is that? Do you require a block of instructions to carry out that task? You are in Intelligence act like you have some! Maybe you shouldn't be trying to read between the lines of Regulations to find loopholes to keep you from performing your duties in a required manner, I can tell you right now, there isn't any! I was in the infantry for many years, even a private in the infantry knows how to honor a Salute even if their hands were full. This question, in this forum, is an embarrassment to all of us NCOs grow up and start acting like one!

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Jun 23 at 2022 7:00 PM

2022-06-23T19:00:37-04:00

I assisted my Squadron to move from one Hanger to another. While most of us Enlisted were hauling crate after crate to the trucks, we had a junior LT that kept holding the door for us and giving us crap each time we went out for not saluting. He was joking, but on our second load, we pulled the truck into the hanger. The LT applauded the solution.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Jun 23 at 2022 8:15 PM

2022-06-23T20:15:36-04:00

The answer is simple, no. However, in your situation you are wrong why are you walking around with a mug. The mug belongs stationary unless your drinking but never moving around.

Response by CPT Nicolas Smith made Jun 24 at 2022 11:57 AM

2022-06-24T11:57:03-04:00

The CSM was wrong. You recite AR 600-25 to him,if he continues to insist on being wrong, you do as he says, then you inform your CSM of the situation. If it was your CSM that was wrong you report it to your BDE/DIV/CORPS CSM.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2022 11:15 AM

2022-06-25T11:15:43-04:00

You’re suppose to carry most things in your left hand unless otherwise occupied. Your CSM was definitely wrong

Response by SSG Mildred Johnson made Jun 25 at 2022 11:27 AM

2022-06-25T11:27:56-04:00

This happened to me, I had stuff in my hands,saw a Captain coming and tried to put it all in my left side, she just smiled and Saulted me.

Response by CPO David Ransom made Jun 25 at 2022 7:33 PM

2022-06-25T19:33:46-04:00

Soooooo, was the coffee still hot when you brought it to the General?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2022 2:41 AM

2022-06-26T02:41:11-04:00

AR 600-25 2-1,
i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are—
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical.
Sooooo tell CSM have an all army day and carry on! I swear, they get lobotomies or have to pick out a pet peeve or something at the sergeants majors academy. SSG Gorman on MASH said it best… “God damn army!”

Response by PO2 James King made Jun 26 at 2022 1:44 PM

2022-06-26T13:44:17-04:00

I've been out for 40 years and I still.keep my right hand free.

Response by MSgt Tom Shepke made Jun 26 at 2022 4:47 PM

2022-06-26T16:47:21-04:00

You should have learned that in boot camp

Response by MSgt Earl King made Jun 26 at 2022 7:37 PM

2022-06-26T19:37:53-04:00

It really depends on the situation and location, on a carrier, in a war zone, in your situation that officer was just an A-Hole. Reminds me of this Capt. who was inspecting rooms in the barrack after field day, he kicked over a trash can that wasn't completely empty, and the NCO went to the SgtMaj and told him if he had done that it would leave a totally different impression, but for an officer to do that was totally disrespectful to the enlisted. The SgtMaj went next door to the CO's office and told him, that Marine Capt. got his butt stomped. Among other things, he didn't get selected for Maj., very bad report!!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2022 8:13 PM

2022-06-26T20:13:37-04:00

O-Grades want their hand salutes. You should absolutely know this by now, as an NCO. To me, a coffee cup and a binder don’t really fit what the reg says, and I’m sure your explanation wouldn’t pass a law review. Its an easy adjustment. Had you been carrying a .50 cal base, large box, etc you’d have had a valid reason.

Response by CPO Donald Crisp made Jun 26 at 2022 10:53 PM

2022-06-26T22:53:46-04:00

Absolutely you need to salute. If this kind of thing happens frequently, I'd suggest you invest in a closable coffee container so you can be ready to salute as required.

Response by Sgt Juan Carlos Colon Agosto made Jun 27 at 2022 8:41 AM

2022-06-27T08:41:25-04:00

This dilema of having both hands full of anything should get clarified and taken into consideration by the Officer. We, the enlisted personnel should at the very least stand at attention in respect of any and all Officers in recognition of their rank.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2022 10:03 AM

2022-06-27T10:03:39-04:00

If you can put what you are holding on your right to the left and salute, that would be the best thing to do. However, there are times you cannot, such as when carrying a large item in both hands. So, instead of a salute, give the proper greeting and go about your day. I would not expect anyone to stop walking, put the item down, and salute. That is ridiculous, lacking common sense, and an unreasonable expectation for an officer to have.

Response by SSG Marcus Johnson made Jun 27 at 2022 11:59 AM

2022-06-27T11:59:30-04:00

If it was me, and I'm not saying this is the correct answer, I would set the items in question down and salute if asked. If I'm not asked I would greet the officer or officers in question and move on. Unless the people involved are totally full of themselves you should have no problem. If they are full of themselves I suggest you contact JAG Defense and see what they say. Although it may be a minor offense it still can impact you in a negative way.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Jun 27 at 2022 2:04 PM

2022-06-27T14:04:50-04:00

In the Navy, such an Article only applies to the carrying of objects that make rendering a Salute a major impracticality, like carrying an object with both hands. Neither a mug, nor a cup in hand is consider impractical, as you can shift from your right hand or put down, those objects with ease. If you right arm or hand is incapacitated, you Salute with your left. Always render the proper verbal Honors/Respect.

Response by Sgt Robert Jay Book made Jun 27 at 2022 2:23 PM

2022-06-27T14:23:13-04:00

Keep your rand free to render a salute, unless you are on a work detail or caring a single item that requires both hand to be sued.
SFC(ret.) R. Jay Book

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Jun 28 at 2022 10:27 AM

2022-06-28T10:27:01-04:00

No, you are not required to salute when you are under a load, carrying something. I was walking across base with another petty officer and I had in my hands a box, he and I both passed an LTJG who asked him, "Is something wrong with your shoulder, petty officer?" My buddy had been in surgery for a dislocated shoulder and he thought the young officer was from his former command and held out his hand to shake hands (yeah dumbass) the officer got pissy and said "You are suppossed to salute." At which time he did. I just stood there smiling as I understood regulations and did not have to put down my load to salute.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Jun 28 at 2022 7:44 PM

2022-06-28T19:44:41-04:00

Again, this depends on what's going on at the time your hands are occupied. With regards to a mug and binder you could have easily stopped at handed the binder to the CSM or switch hands to hold the mug and binder together to give a salute. Unlike carrying a box that requires two hands or something over 25 lbs which also requires two hands to carry it.

Then again I presume this was out in the open and not inside a building; where most folks simply acknowledge an officer unless it's an O-5 or higher (Commander or LTC and up). So technically you can be seen in the wrong for not saluting the CPT.

However, if this was inside a building then clearly you're in the right and should call out the CSM with the AR600-25 which addresses this as such. If that's the case then the CSM is at fault for giving you reprimand for it because it's inside and your aren't required to give a salute indoors and also if you're not covered or in a specific circumstance. Then again the Navy doesn't require a salute when an individual has their headwear off in most cases.

Response by PO1 Ken Helmick made Jun 28 at 2022 10:28 PM

2022-06-28T22:28:48-04:00

Best response I ever had was when I was carrying a number of boxes full of parts down the pier and an officer stopped me to ask if he could lend a hand.

Response by CPO Christian Simonsen made Jun 29 at 2022 7:26 AM

2022-06-29T07:26:50-04:00

Looks to me like you’re deliberately carrying things in both hands to avoid rendering the most basic of military courtesies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2022 11:54 AM

2022-07-15T11:54:47-04:00

A binder and a mug?
Are you f@#$ing serious?!
Binder under your left arm, mug into left hand.
Your handS were not occupied, you were trying to get around the rule. And you were doing it in a way that is not intelligent, and being a 35F means you better be intelligent.
How were you not taught this in BCT? You probably were, but you were imagining yourself beating the system and daydreaming when they said it, huh? If you are easily capable of having your right hand being free, it is not occupied. If you would have to stop and put something down to salute, that's what it's for.
Do push-ups.

Response by SP5 Skip Saurman made Jul 29 at 2022 5:30 PM

2022-07-29T17:30:48-04:00

Salute, or not to salute. Luckily we didn't have that "problem" in Vietnam!

Response by CDR Jerry Wells made Jul 30 at 2022 1:30 AM

2022-07-30T01:30:06-04:00

The answer is that you shift what is in you hand and salute. Sounds like you are making excuses for not rendering military respect for an officer. You're a Sargent and know better. Start acting like an NCO and stop making excuses. Your lack respect is either poor military training or lack of respect which makes me believe you should not be holding the rank you have.
If you were carrying boxes and on a work party that would be a different thing but a coffee cup and a folder just shows disrespect for the service, its discipline and your nation.

Response by CPL Cadrew Strickland made Jul 30 at 2022 8:45 AM

2022-07-30T08:45:08-04:00

Address them as sir or Ma’m if pronouns are safe to use and say good morning or whatever time of day it is. A good of officer should respond with the same. If they demand you drop everything just for a salute they will lose the respect that is due them. That’s my opinion

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2022 4:56 PM

2022-07-31T16:56:16-04:00

If you are able to move the mug to the other hand you should. But if your hands are full and unable to make that adjustment, then it’s not required.

Response by SGT Jimmy Carpenter made Aug 1 at 2022 2:43 PM

2022-08-01T14:43:54-04:00

Too much time has passed for me to know what the proper courtesy is. All my salutes these days only require 1 finger.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2022 9:21 AM

2022-08-02T09:21:39-04:00

Depends on the situation, if you are working and can’t surrender a salute. Please give the greeting of the day. The reg is specific and it states that one doesn’t have to surrender a salute. But, common sense would dictate. But, I guarantee you some officers don’t care about the reg or even know the reg. They will have some issues with it. Just be prepared to salute if you need to. As NCO’s it’s our job to know and sometime we have to educate.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2022 10:32 AM

2022-08-08T10:32:50-04:00

Regardless of the opinions, the regulation is pretty clear on this. The greeting of the day is appropriate. I remember when I was a PFC I was trying to adjust my items into one hand to salute a CPT and he told me that I didn’t need to and to look up the regulation and report back to him what I found. I liked that he made me look it up myself rather than just take his word for it.

Response by Sgt Paul Terry made Aug 29 at 2022 11:11 PM

2022-08-29T23:11:43-04:00

I had an incident in my squadron’s parking lot where I was coming upon an approaching Captain who was between my car and myself. I had stuff in my hands and I stop a couple of yards off from him, and transferred it all over to balance in one hand so I could throw him a salute. It probably came off awkward but I knew him and he appreciated my showing a sign of respect. Just before he had started towards me, there had been two other airmen walking with me, but they split off to circumvent crossing paths with the Captain. He saw what they did and he called them both over to him and chewed their asses out. He even cited me as an example by pointing out I was the only one with my hands full, and I still found a way to salute him. It costs me nothing to show I respected his rank and position, and put those other two on his shit list. From there on in, I figured it was better to give it a try than not. If I was carrying something in both hands, transfer one to the other for the minute it takes to salute. If I was carrying a box that required two hands, it was still safer to come to a halt and nod an acknowledgment with my head and address the officer’s rank. It can save you some heartache and trouble.

Response by Sgt Glenn Ratzel made Sep 1 at 2022 4:29 PM

2022-09-01T16:29:28-04:00

Remember being in tank school at Fort Knox, KY, in 1978. Out of an office came an Army major with a coffee cup in his right hand. We saluted, as required. As he transferred his coffee cup to his left hand, he spilled coffee on his shirt. He told us, "Don't ever salute me again."

Response by SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman made Sep 1 at 2022 10:37 PM

2022-09-01T22:37:04-04:00

There are numerous situations where a hand salute is ill advised or even dangerous (ie Combat areas). None the less, there are other ways to acknowledge the rank (and that's what the hand salute really does...acknowledge the rank). A cheerful "Good morning sir" says it all.

Response by MAJ Deirdre Mahony made Sep 1 at 2022 11:45 PM

2022-09-01T23:45:05-04:00

Ridiculous. The salute is a greeting, not a punishment. A general rule is that if you are in a work detail you don't have to salute a senior officer. You were obviously 'hand occupied' and your verbal greeting should have been enough. The CSM was out of line if your non-salute/greeting was genuine. But next time you are outdoors with your hat on and not in a work situation - have your right hand free just in case!!

Response by PO3 JamiSue Moore made Sep 3 at 2022 9:58 AM

2022-09-03T09:58:57-04:00

It depends on what is in your hands.
If you are carrying a huge box and both hands are truly at work, then the answer is no you do not have to salute but you do stop to acknowledge with at least a verbal salute.
A binder in one hand and a cup in the other is not truly occupied as a binder can go under your left arm and the mug can go into your left hand leaving your right hand open to render a salute. What you are doing is just plain disrespectful and you deserve to be reprimanded for it.

Response by SPC David Giffen made Sep 3 at 2022 7:30 PM

2022-09-03T19:30:45-04:00

No, You just need to give the greeting of the day.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Sep 3 at 2022 7:36 PM

2022-09-03T19:36:10-04:00

A binder in one hand and a coffee mug in the other is not "my hands are occupied" you can tuck that binder under your arm, and put that coffee mug in your left hand and then your right hand is free to what needs to be done.

If I had to reprimand you TWICE for this, as a sergeant, you would never make it to E-6. I wouldn't recommend your lazy ass for reenlistment, if you can not figure this basic concept out.

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Sep 4 at 2022 5:29 PM

2022-09-04T17:29:39-04:00

Lol you sound a little suspect. You are right however I believe that reg is meant while working? walking carrying coffee and a binder? You actually could have stopped held the binder and coffee mug on se side rendered the salute and finished your coffee lol I know sometimes ya don't want to do it, but give the respect they work for. At the end of the day it sounds a little petty not to salute. Best regards

Response by Shawn Corter made Oct 2 at 2022 8:51 PM

2022-10-02T20:51:03-04:00

Next time carry a bag of sorts holding the binder, and put the mug in your left hand. Render the salute. Too easy...

Response by SSG Marc Moore made Oct 2 at 2022 9:18 PM

2022-10-02T21:18:59-04:00

You should have placed the binder under your left arm, held the mug with your left hand and rendered a salute.

Response by Sgt Robert Elliott made Oct 3 at 2022 10:26 AM

2022-10-03T10:26:59-04:00

Maybe things have changed a lot since I was active duty in the Marines back in the mid 60's, but what is a CSM? I'm just guessing that a CPT is a Captain, which I would have called a Capt. Can anyone answer this old leatherneck? As for the situation at hand, I would have stopped, put something down to free up my right hand, returned to attention and saluted.

Response by SSG Tony Basile made Oct 3 at 2022 11:24 AM

2022-10-03T11:24:11-04:00

Short answer is no, if it isn’t possible to free up your hand during a carry.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Oct 4 at 2022 8:17 PM

2022-10-04T20:17:31-04:00

As a soldier, when you are enroute somewhere you should travel with the ability to salute. You also should not be smoking ehen,, rendering a hand salute!

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Oct 5 at 2022 4:31 AM

2022-10-05T04:31:33-04:00

Free your right hand and render courtesies. be the Marine you should be it should be part of the life you chose.

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Oct 24 at 2022 12:33 PM

2022-10-24T12:33:05-04:00

I have personally experienced this when I was carrying a box with two hands, a buddy of mine from the Jessee L Brown who'd been on TPU medical for a dislocated shoulder were walking across Charleston Naval Base when we passed an LTJG, and being engaged in a conversation Tim did not see the officer, who got "pissy" immediately and asked "Is there something wrong iwth your shoulder?" Well, Tim's command was a little casual and he thought it was an officer from his ship so Tim extended his hand thinking the officer was asking in specifc about how his shoulder was doing. I smiled broadly knowing the little Butter Bar 2.0 had his feathers ruffled. I spoke up, "Tim, I think he wants you to salute him." And I simled broader when both the LTJG and I knew I did not have to. Tim popped tall and saluted. The LTJG's ears must have been burning as I know he heard me laughing once he'd walked away. So no, under a load there is no requirement to salute. :)

Response by SPC James Cooke made Oct 30 at 2022 8:20 PM

2022-10-30T20:20:37-04:00

Carry your coffee in your left hand. Put the binder in between your left arm and your body. Render salute.

Response by CPT Kenneth Losey made Oct 31 at 2022 12:01 AM

2022-10-31T00:01:53-04:00

As you describe the situation, it sounds like both the CPT and the CSM were violating the time-honored maxim "don't be a dick". This being the second time you've gotten reprimanded for this, however, you cannot blame me for wondering if the whole story is being told. The only time I ever jacked up (verbally only) someone for not saluting was if they did something like the old "start the salute and then brush the hair" trick or some other obviously intentional sign of disrespect. For both a CPT AND a CSM to jack you up suggests there may be a history of disrespectful behavior on your part. But maybe not... there are dicks out there in uniform in all ranks. Officers, NCOs, and all other enlisted ranks need to respect each other.

Response by SGT J M Porters made Oct 31 at 2022 12:09 AM

2022-10-31T00:09:07-04:00

Respect. We are not part of a social club. A salute is something we render. When walking and you see an officer approaching. Snap to it. Sit it down or to the side. Give it and keep it going. We do not give because we want to or they deserve it. It is our training and duty.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Oct 31 at 2022 1:00 AM

2022-10-31T01:00:37-04:00

When I was at ET school in the USCG, there was a Ensign who walked down past the front of the school at lunch time and dress down anyone he thought didn't salute fast enough or sharply enough. While dressing them down he also liked to nit pick uniforms. Many of us had already been in the field for a while, so our uniforms while well kept were definitely not boot camp fresh, making them easy targets.

Well we got to talking in the rec room one day and decided some "instruction" was in order. Said Ensign was very predicable in his timing, so we would wait around the corner until we spotted him at the far end of the building. (Building 400 was an old Army building and probably 200 feet or so long, with several wings in the back and a center archway.) When we saw him coming about thirty of us would proceed in his direction, spacing ourselves about 5 yards apart. Of course each one of us gave him our best boot camp salute, and of course he had to return each salute. After about three days of that, and increasing numbers of participants as other classes and schools started to join in, he decided to take the long way home.

Response by TSgt D Newman made Nov 1 at 2022 9:21 AM

2022-11-01T09:21:45-04:00

The worst is when there nonimmigrant or Legal Permanent Wife reports you to command staff.

Response by SSG Brian Pyle made Nov 2 at 2022 3:00 PM

2022-11-02T15:00:53-04:00

Let me get this straight......you are holding a binder and a mug? You can't handle this with one arm? When you see the CPT approaching place the binder between your left arm and your side and put mug in left hand! What am I missing? The CSM obviously believed it would have been an easy maneuver or you wouldn't have been reprimanded.

Response by MSgt Craig Gauger made Nov 2 at 2022 5:59 PM

2022-11-02T17:59:14-04:00

Stop drinking coffee when you're outdoors and salute at every opportunity.

Response by CW4 Dana Ahl made Nov 3 at 2022 11:36 AM

2022-11-03T11:36:06-04:00

AR 600-25 overrides illiterate CSM

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2022 1:01 PM

2022-11-04T13:01:15-04:00

Sounds like to me you're purposely trying to get out of a salute. Those are not large heavy bulky items. Quickly move the binder to under your arm and mug in left hand. Just do it. Sounds like both CSM /CPT are being hard on you for a reason. Just comply and don't make matters harder for yourself. That regulation is for items that literally require both hands.

Response by SGT M C made Nov 5 at 2022 8:20 AM

2022-11-05T08:20:17-04:00

Get rid of people who are so petty. I had a simillar situation many years ago. It was Sunday I was off duty asleep in the barracks after pulling a 12 hr shift. A 2nd louie came in who was a former E-5 and went to OCS. I Opened my sleepy eyes and looked at him and he said " Don't you know enough to get up and salute and officer" to which I got up weraing my boxers which were loose at the fly and probably open to expose my junk somewhat and I gave him the most Beetel Baily sad sack salute you could imagine. So much respect for him who I would imagine if he made it to Nam was prbably fragged! Those are not the kind of cadre you want or need but the ones who inspire you that you such would drop whatever you were doing and run over to salute them. Don't hold your breath now with this wokeism crap running rampant.

Response by SGT Steven Bolander made Nov 6 at 2022 9:26 AM

2022-11-06T09:26:27-05:00

It's been a few years since I've been on active duty (well, 50 years to be exact). But, reading this and other postings about this topic makes me realize that different eras have given way to different priorities within the military.

Of course I've always rendered a salute to an officer whenever and wherever possible. However, back in my day, officers and enlisted personnel alike seemed so much more concerned about the actual mission of the military rather than seeking out situations where a saluting protocol was somehow violated. There was even an appreciated (and often necessary) camaraderie between enlisted and officer ranks that, in my opinion, resulted in a more effective and efficient military.

Has the military really changed that much in only fifty years??

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Nov 6 at 2022 9:36 AM

2022-11-06T09:36:50-05:00

This is what I was taught. If your hands are full, at least acknowledge the superior officer.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Nov 6 at 2022 7:29 PM

2022-11-06T19:29:18-05:00

If both hands are occupied with something that is over 35 lbs or awkward to hold with one hand then NO!

Because this goes along the line of breaking DOL, OSHA and other Military Safety Regulations. Acknowledgement of said officer and a/an apology because your hands are reasonably occupied and you can't put something down then you're allowed a "Common Sense and Reasonable" Pass on Not Saluting the Officer(s) in question.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Nov 7 at 2022 5:59 PM

2022-11-07T17:59:07-05:00

unless something has changed, if your right hand is carrying something you should move the items you are carrying to your left hand and give the salute with the greeting of the day .

if both hands are full you can stop place the items on the ground come to the position of attention, salute with the greeting of the day. or as you walk by just give the Greeting of the day,

if you are in a work detail, the person in charge of the work detail salutes and gives greeting of the day .

if at all posable always move the item from your hand and give the hand salute, with the proper greeting of the day.

if you are reprimanded for having both hands full, just take the Reprimanded and inform your chain of command of what happen and why you did not render the salute, show your command the regs and let him or her handle the situation with the officer in question.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Nov 8 at 2022 10:25 AM

2022-11-08T10:25:38-05:00

SGT, if a Master Chief I were walking with demanded that an approaching Petty Officer drop everything and render a salute to me, I would question that Master Chief's cognitive skills; his leadership skills left none to question. You are not required to render a salute; however, as a matter of courtesy one should greet the officer with a respectful greeting after which the officer should respond accordingly. You fulfilled your responsibilities both as a person and as a subordinate. BZ

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made Dec 13 at 2022 8:23 PM

2022-12-13T20:23:24-05:00

The AR is the official answer. Unfortunately, some CSMs can be confrontational. Best practice is to keep your right hand free when moving about, so you can render a salute when necessary, and avoid getting dressed down by roving bands of zealous senior NCOs.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Dec 15 at 2022 7:33 AM

2022-12-15T07:33:47-05:00

I think I would have put the binder down and saluted.

Response by Sgt John Shewfelt made Dec 15 at 2022 9:15 PM

2022-12-15T21:15:55-05:00

Unless you are in the middle of a working party and literally cannot free a hand to salute, or in a uniform that renders this irrelevant (thank you naval service), yes you must. A coffee cup does not cover it. Ever. At all. And props to whoever pointed out that you don’t have a right hand when in uniform except under a precious few circumstances.

Response by TSgt Timothy Backstrom made Dec 17 at 2022 10:43 AM

2022-12-17T10:43:40-05:00

While outdoors in uniform and not performing work, keep your right hand available to salute.
One day I was carrying a box to the postal center to mail off, and approaching the entrance an officer exited. I placed the box down, saluted, then picked the box back up.
It's not the salute itself, it's the effort given that pleases them.

Response by SP5 James Filhart made Dec 18 at 2022 5:44 AM

2022-12-18T05:44:49-05:00

you do not have to salute.

Response by MSG Jay Murfield made Dec 18 at 2022 7:18 AM

2022-12-18T07:18:16-05:00

According AR 600-25, you don't have to. But you will get those power tripping officers that demand a salute. Like one comment said, don't put yourself in those situations. If the officer is going your way ask them for help so you can salute them, or give them the stuff in your right hand, salute, get the stuff back & wait for a salute back. As for a CSM to get involved, he just wanted something to bark about, which is typical.

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2022 2:06 PM

2022-12-18T14:06:01-05:00

Yea, As mentioned below, the coffee cup/mug doesn't really cut it. Really that busy you had to carry that with you? That's gonna piss off the NCO in me And ANY Senior SNCO. Underneath a Tactical Vehicle installing a transmission? Yea, good Morning Gentlemen! No Prob. Caught in a pickle with hands full normal? Position of Attention, Good Morning Sir!, Good Morning SGM. But coffee cup just isn't a good look unless caught by surprise. Your problem is an easy fix.

Response by CSM Algrish Williams made Dec 18 at 2022 4:54 PM

2022-12-18T16:54:37-05:00

The greeting of the day is all that's required if the officers or the elnlisted hands ✋️ are both filled.

Response by PO1 Ernie Johnson made Dec 18 at 2022 10:41 PM

2022-12-18T22:41:03-05:00

I more concerned to the fact that you are a E-5 who does know how to be prepared for the possibility of meeting a officer while walking and carrying items should the need to give proper rendering of salute to said officer. If you were a E1-E3 I might see this happening, but you are a NCO trained to train those under you. Now you know why the CSM was upset to see one of his fellow NCO’s not give proper respect to an officer.

Response by SSG Joseph Branham made Dec 18 at 2022 11:59 PM

2022-12-18T23:59:38-05:00

Simple answer........what do the regulations say. End of answer. Pardon my choice of words but if that CSM did what you said then that CSM is a chicken shit. Gotta be one of those woke POS that is trying to make brownie points. No I am not pc nor will I ever be. Not one CSM that I knew or in fact any ranking officer would expect you to do that. Good grief. And people wonder why I got out.

Response by SSgt Michael Bowen made Dec 20 at 2022 7:38 AM

2022-12-20T07:38:59-05:00

The regs already told you CSM was wrong . The bad part is a CSM should have known better . Clearly he wanted to show off rather then respect you or the regs .

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Dec 23 at 2022 7:20 AM

2022-12-23T07:20:29-05:00

Well, it's been a long time since I've been in the military, over fifty years. I was told if your hands were occupied, both hands, just say your greetings of Good Morning Sir or Mam. I only met one female officer all the time I was in. and it didn't end well. God my tail chewed out because I did not salute her.

Response by CPT Earl George made Dec 24 at 2022 8:17 PM

2022-12-24T20:17:27-05:00

Are you required to salute the officer in question? If so, make sure your right hand is free to ensure you can accomplish the required task.

Response by CPL Timothy Warner made Jan 15 at 2023 9:01 AM

2023-01-15T09:01:31-05:00

Yes absolutely it's the highest gesture you can do in a military put that stuff down on the ground and stop salute ....cut and dry...."no-if-ands-or-buts-about-it."....100% for sure

Response by CPL Timothy Warner made Jan 15 at 2023 9:02 AM

2023-01-15T09:02:54-05:00

Forget about what it States or what it doesn't state... You just do it out of respect put the laws on that particular issue and set that aside show the honor and salute.. It's not that difficult get rid of the pride.....

Response by CPL Timothy Warner made Jan 15 at 2023 9:05 AM

2023-01-15T09:05:18-05:00

I was told in life do you wanna be happy Or do you want to be right...... That's an Avenue to run for the feathers for them the mess with you even though they're wrong so what what's the issue with saluting anyways.... They might give you more respect saying "wow this soldier willing to salute us even though hes carrying things.... And he doesn't have to but he does it anyway"

Response by CPL Timothy Warner made Jan 15 at 2023 9:05 AM

2023-01-15T09:05:53-05:00

The one thing I learned in the military that taught me a hard lesson ,.....do not go against the grain simple as that....

Response by CPL Timothy Warner made Jan 15 at 2023 9:07 AM

2023-01-15T09:07:05-05:00

You want to get rid of that minor problem and have peace simply salute...

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Jan 27 at 2023 2:51 PM

2023-01-27T14:51:30-05:00

Salute

Response by CDR Theresa Everest made Jan 27 at 2023 7:23 PM

2023-01-27T19:23:48-05:00

No. Only a self-centered self-important officer would demand such a thing. By regulation they are in the wrong.

Response by Sgt Ed Allen made Jan 28 at 2023 3:27 AM

2023-01-28T03:27:25-05:00

IF you had a binder too large to hold the mug and binder in the same hand, then the CSM was being an ass and was trying to impress the Capt. You might remember who he is and let your CSM know. They can always have a nice chat about it at their level.

IF, however, it was a small binder and you could easily have carried your mug in the left hand with the binder under your arm, than you probably should have done so and not looked like an idiot trying to get out of saluting the officers.

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Jan 28 at 2023 2:11 PM

2023-01-28T14:11:14-05:00

Any honest officer would see your hands are full, but if you do feel the need find a place to empty your right hand and render a salute.

Response by Cpl Stephen hawk Jr made Jan 28 at 2023 10:41 PM

2023-01-28T22:41:27-05:00

Leave the right hand empty whenever possible. Something like a binder can be tucked under your left arm to render a salute. When carrying heavy items like vehicle or aircraft parts a salute should not be expected but a greeting is.

Response by PVT Joey Sala made Feb 9 at 2023 2:04 PM

2023-02-09T14:04:55-05:00

Carry the AR with you at all times and show it to CSM when fvckes with u. See how that goes

Response by COL Hugh Stirts made Feb 24 at 2023 1:31 PM

2023-02-24T13:31:35-05:00

If a soldier had his hands filled and walked past me, I did not expect or demand a salute. I did expect a greeting, such as 'good morning sir'. I believe the CSM was in error.

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Feb 24 at 2023 7:20 PM

2023-02-24T19:20:10-05:00

You're a Sergeant and feel you need to ask a question like that...

Response by SN Russell Helberg made Feb 27 at 2023 2:09 PM

2023-02-27T14:09:30-05:00

just wink at em that ought to get their attention-----

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Mar 11 at 2023 8:57 AM

2023-03-11T08:57:19-05:00

Poor baby, are they picking on you?
Stop walking around with a mug of coffee in your mitt.

Response by SSgt Patrick Sprague made Mar 27 at 2023 6:23 AM

2023-03-27T06:23:39-04:00

WOW! Some people need to chill and have forgotten the entire point to a salute. The salute is an acknowledgement of the rank and status held by that person. It is NOT a salute to the person so, stop being so contrary people. However, a coffee cup is a bit ridiculous to say thats "occupying" the hand. If you do continue that, make a play at juggling things around so you can salute. The majority of the time they'll appreciate the acknowledgement and wave you off with a smile. That's just one of the sucky parts to being enlisted. We have to coddle some with their entitlement.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2023 1:18 PM

2023-03-27T13:18:42-04:00

The way I was always told it was if you were carrying "official" stuff, like tools, files, books, your gear, then a greeting was sufficient. But if any of what you have in your right hand is "personal," you stack it on top of the other stuff or drop it and render your salute.
But the only unreasonable officers I ever met were brand-new Butter Bars. I always saluted them, no matter what, even if it meant setting something down on the wet ground.
I've been out for 17 years and I still very seldom carry anything in my right hand.

Response by CPO Melissa Osborne made Mar 27 at 2023 2:49 PM

2023-03-27T14:49:29-04:00

Back in the day, if at all possible, outside one kept nothing in the right hand, or if you had to carry something with both hands, verbally greeted the officer. Had I been in that situation SGT Gianna described, I would have laid things down, come to attention and saluted the CAPT O6, and left the CSM to the lack of mercy of the CAPT. Perhaps the Navy of yesterday viewed courtesy as primary and how that courtesy was shown was open to a situation. Of course, as a Chief Petty Officer, I wonder if even a Command Sergeant Major would have corrected me?! But things were different 50-60 years ago. (I will comment I worked mostly in cross-service Navy-Army-Marine situations and assignments mostly.

Response by CMSgt Keith Hennek made Mar 28 at 2023 10:17 PM

2023-03-28T22:17:30-04:00

Common courtesies would be to move both items to the other hand or put the binder under your arm with the mug in your left hand and render a proper salute to the Captain.

Response by SCPO Sean Dillard made Mar 30 at 2023 2:26 PM

2023-03-30T14:26:35-04:00

"Carrying articles" means something requiring both hands to carry due to size or weight, not because it is slightly more convenient. Honestly sounds like you're trying to get out of rendering honors by skirting the rules. Do you run from colors too? Military traditions are important and are in keeping with good order and discipline. Don't be that guy.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2023 7:36 PM

2023-04-26T19:36:35-04:00

Hold all items in your left arm and hand and salute or beyond 12 steps away make 90 degree turn and walk away pretending you forgot to do something...

Response by SSgt Ryan Pittenger made Apr 26 at 2023 11:01 PM

2023-04-26T23:01:51-04:00

Response by SPC Hansford Boatman made Apr 27 at 2023 2:08 AM

2023-04-27T02:08:17-04:00

jold the binder hourzontal and put the coffee cup on it, They told us in basic that if you smoke then always hold it in your left hand

Response by CMSgt Elbert E. Clayton made Apr 27 at 2023 8:10 PM

2023-04-27T20:10:53-04:00

What if you were picking your nose with your right hand? Would you, could you, should you salute or continue to pick your nose. What the hell is the military cadre coming to with this plainly contrived question. If you were walking to and fro without any specific job function pertaining, then you needed more than an asschewing from the CSM. If you were ditch digging and had a shovel in one hand and a bucket of dirt in the other, then you might not have to salute. Saluting, as I was taught in basic training, is a recognition of Officer rank and position, not a chore to be avoided. I had the pleasure and occasion to salute many enlisted members that had performed enlisted military duties under my NCO leadership and through hard work and success in meeting Officer Training School (OTS) qualifications and requirements became officers. Some I was fortunate to be the first to Salute and collect a dollar from (an old and forgotten custom).

Response by SSG Leslie Cunningham made Apr 27 at 2023 10:54 PM

2023-04-27T22:54:06-04:00

As a Sp4 I was walking from HQ to the PX passing a 2nd LT with both of his hands full of packages as we passed each other I acknowledged his presence with a head nod and sir. He responded with specialist don't you salute officers ? At which time I stopped I did an about-face came to the position of attention rendered a perfect salute and held it till he put down his packages and returned my salute !

Response by Maj A. Clark made Apr 28 at 2023 1:49 PM

2023-04-28T13:49:25-04:00

Many, many moons ago when I was in my first branch as a Second Class Petty Officer, we had a junior officer (O-1 Ensign) who apparently had been " talked with" by our Captain about salutes. So he went overboard and started demanding salutes in the most bizarre situations. One day I was carrying a 100 pound crate down a 600 yard-long pier and he actually stopped for a few minutes and waited for me to eventually approach his location where he demanded I put down the heavy crate (a hydraulic pump for the missile launcher) and render a salute. Several other crewmen from a working party had also been similarly accosted and they all watched from the ship. Instead of arguing I put down my heavy burden and loudly thanked him profusely for giving my back a break. Then I loudly thanked him for taking time from his busy day to stand there and wait for my approach. Further that I was sure the ship's operational readiness was certainly of no concern compared to his morning salute. Later we NCOs talked half the crew into continually saluting this yahoo whenever we saw him. All screaming some overly dramatic greeting. Apparently the Captain thought this was hilarious and let it go on for a couple days. The embarrassed junior Ensign eventually became a great Officer, functional alcoholic and shipmate after we lead him astray in many foreign ports of call.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made Apr 28 at 2023 6:02 PM

2023-04-28T18:02:06-04:00

Is it so hard to put down your damn coffee and do what soldiers have been doing for over 200 years? I would have tore your butt up too.

Response by SGT(P) Jody Hall made Apr 29 at 2023 10:36 AM

2023-04-29T10:36:58-04:00

This has to be one of the strangest questions I have seen. If you are working it carrying things etc... and it is obvious there is no way to do so, then acknowledge their rank and move on.

IE carrying ammo, weapons, computer electronics, heavy bulky geer.

In my day in the Airborne it was "All the way sir!"
They would 99% of the time just say "Airborne" (or what is common in your unit) and you all continue on your way. Now if its something small you carry, keep "it" (right hand/arm) free so you can whip it out if needed.

I was a bit of a joker sometimes. I was always coming up with clever things to say besides "All the way sir, or Air assault.." I was never ever fond of "good day (insert Officer or NCO rank here)." etc...

I seem to remember being fond of "Death From Above Sir/CSM (whatever)..." for a while.
Anyhow. If this is a thing now with this I have to wonder what is going on in Basic, PLDC, BNOC and OCS that something like this is an issue.

It leads me to wonder if the officers in the military these days have lost site of their common sense. SGT(p)1986-2003

Response by Sgt Steven Baldwin made Apr 29 at 2023 12:25 PM

2023-04-29T12:25:39-04:00

If it is that difficult to survive in the military and it requires looking for "loop holes" in regs to smooth out someone's enlistment maybe life should be sought elsewhere. WARRIOR UP! THROW THE DAMN SALUTE WITH SOME PRIDE!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2023 1:19 PM

2023-04-29T13:19:04-04:00

Usually that rule is for things that aren’t easily carried by one hand. You could have easily move the binder under your left arm and had the coffee in your left hand to render the salute. At least this is how it was explained to me.

Response by CPT Leo Coleman made May 1 at 2023 11:39 AM

2023-05-01T11:39:43-04:00

Best thing to do is not walk around with a mug, cigarette, etc. in your right hand.

If you're truly encumbered with carrying a large box or something, render an appropriate greeting and you should be fine. When someone did something like that dealing with me, I always not only returned the greeting but also returned a salute which the person encumbered with carrying a large load would have rendered if he could have.

This is the kind of common-sense stuff which should be taught to officer aspirants so they're clear on the whole saluting thing.

Of course, those involved in a work detail carry on with their work and do not salute unless approached and addressed by an officer. When such occurs, the person in charge may call the group to attention- if it is PRACTICABLE- he salutes, and when the conversation is ended salutes the officer on his departure.

We used to teach these things, but I suppose there are far more important things on the schedule these days.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2023 11:18 AM

2023-05-03T11:18:30-04:00

Are you unable to put the binder under your left arm to give the salute? Because if a binder and a mug is all you need to not salute people every E-4 on base would do it

Response by CW2 Kenneth-Maxwell Nance made May 8 at 2023 8:56 PM

2023-05-08T20:56:13-04:00

When outside, we try to keep the right hand free when permissible. Nevertheless, it is not always possible, and it is not always safe with two-person carry requirements, lifting a body, performing CPR, and circumstances that are not safe or practical. One would only hope that those who deserve/require a salute can see the context. Further, the same should know and understand the regulations. When a situation makes saluting not practical but you receive an order, salute if possible. However, do not risk the safety of yourself and others in a context. Get the name of the individual(s) and report it. By reporting it, you protect yourself and cause a look at the circumstance and policy which may need change. Your report may help the command to see there is a need for further training for the good of the Army. Duty, honor, and country!

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made May 17 at 2023 10:32 PM

2023-05-17T22:32:53-04:00

A resonable Officer would see your condition. You have two options. 1. Place your products at your feet and render a salute or 2. Simply say, by your leave, sir. Unless he is woke and self centered and unable to make such observations, take your chances.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2023 10:12 AM

2023-05-21T10:12:48-04:00

As I have said before. There are CSMs and just E9s. Unfortunatly your E9 has his head up a Captain's alpha.

Response by PO2 Gary Riedl made May 29 at 2023 7:17 PM

2023-05-29T19:17:10-04:00

A binder and a mug? Just put the binder in your armpit and salute. I would agree with you if you had a heavy box that needed both hands, but it sounds like you just wanted to avoid the salute.

Response by WO1 John Wisdom made May 30 at 2023 1:57 AM

2023-05-30T01:57:56-04:00

It sounds like the CSM has a stick up his butt. Send him my way if he can't correct himself.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2023 7:45 AM

2023-05-30T07:45:35-04:00

In August 1994, I had just graduated from the Army's Engineer Officer Advanced Course at Fort Leonard Wood. As I was leaving the School House with a heavy box of materials, a Major stopped me because I had my hat on my head. He directed that I stop. So he could remove my hat, and put it onto the box. Once I got outside- I had to stop again, so he could re-cover my head. As I got to my car, and tried putting the box onto the roof, he said that I now 'owed him a salute'.... so, I turned around, and dropped the box in front of him.. it landed on his boots. I saluted. He got angry for the box ruined his Future-floor-wax spitshine.

Response by SGT Steven Ransbottom made Jun 1 at 2023 9:29 PM

2023-06-01T21:29:11-04:00

No, you are not required to render a salute whilst your hands are full.

Response by PO2 Mark Gravel made Jun 1 at 2023 11:12 PM

2023-06-01T23:12:43-04:00

I would just say, I would salute you sir, however my hands are full sir.

Response by CPL Fred Alexander made Jun 2 at 2023 8:36 AM

2023-06-02T08:36:53-04:00

You free your right hand and SALUTE this is BASIC TRAINING. js. OOORAAH!

Response by LTC John Wilson made Jun 2 at 2023 11:40 AM

2023-06-02T11:40:26-04:00

You raise a great question. Per AR 600-25, you are correct. When you walk outdoors with your hands full, you may not render a salute--technically. Your vignette, though, indicates that you placed yourself within a “gray area” that affords you an opportunity to self-evaluate and learn.

First, since you serve as an NCO, I assume that you didn’t fill your hands on purpose to avoid saluting officers. That is a trick one might expect from a member of the alleged “E4 Mafia,” but not a professional who has adhered to the NCO creed. Therefore, I assume you had the best intentions.

This leads us to another point of exploration: What kind of mug were you carrying: paper mug from Starbucks? Ceramic Mug? Or, did you have sealed travel mug?

When I was a young LT in 3rd Infantry Division, the Command Policy prohibited walking around outside with an open container (coffee cup, open soda can, etc.). The policy didn’t appear to make much sense to me from a personal perspective, but I found it a “small ask” from a professional, good order, and discipline perspective. So, I never walked out and about with an open container. And, by force of habit, I obtained a sealed travel mug that I could stow in a cargo pocket or in my backpack. If I bought coffee at the PX, I would pour it into the travel mug and stow it until I reached my destination. Even after deploying with it around the world, that mug still goes in my backpack every morning when I head into the office.

I suspect that the CSM may have intuitively given you heartburn, because--at least subconsciously--the CSM knew you probably shouldn’t have had the open container in hand, even if the CSM did not know to articulate the point.

Now, if you implement the same practice, then you will have an open right hand to render the respect the commissioned officer deserves, and that officer can, in turn, render the same respect that you deserve right back with their salute.

Next, the binder: While I never ran across a policy that prohibited me from toting one while walking in the open air, I found it preferable to tuck a big binder in my backpack as well, for ease and comfort. When I carried around a “brain book” to keep my notes and appointments, I made SURE it would slip into my cargo pocket, to keep my hands free.

As a matter of AR 600-25’s provisions: while the regulation may not state as much, it typically applies to boxes or other heavy or bulky singular items REQUIRING two hands to carry. As such, you will need to apply common sense to balance between your cargo and requisite pomp and circumstance we rely on as an institution to retain and convey honor and respect to one another as fellow Soldiers.

These provide you with a few new habits that will preserve your military bearing and keep you out of trouble. Now, make sure you pass this tidbit down to the younger Soldiers, as well.

Response by PO3 William Carroll made Jun 2 at 2023 2:51 PM

2023-06-02T14:51:14-04:00

No you don't have to.
You are 100% right.
PO3 William E. Carroll

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2023 8:01 PM

2023-06-02T20:01:20-04:00

So this is where you have to pay close attention to regs. The full piece you're looking at is
"Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical."
So I can't say based on the size of the items but assuming they were roughly the average size one can assume, You should move the mug to to your left hand, tuck the binder up under your arm, render the salute, then return the mug back to your free hand once able to do so.

That particular stipulation was put up with the idea of being situations where you are actively working with both hands. For example if you were holding something up with both hands, that's a time when saluting would be impractical.

The ultimate answer is, if you can arrange the things in your arms to render the salute. You probably should.

Response by TSgt James Sutton made Jun 2 at 2023 11:16 PM

2023-06-02T23:16:41-04:00

Suggest you make better choices when walking around knowing you might have to salute, such as not walking around with a full mug in a salute area. I can't imagine ever having so much stuff I wouldn't be able to salute when walking around regular base areas. Unless I was moving something heavy in which case it wouldn't have been an issue and I would have taken the cause up with my 1st Sgt that they were being out of touch with reality demanding a salute while your hands were "truly" full with something heavy. A mug just doesn't cut the mustard here.

Response by PO3 William Carroll made Jun 3 at 2023 6:49 AM

2023-06-03T06:49:27-04:00

I would remind you to read the UCMF. Before taking advice from anyone.
It is my opinion that you do not have to salute an officer if both hands are full. Make eye contact and nod your head.

Response by LTC Reginald Brown made Jun 3 at 2023 11:14 AM

2023-06-03T11:14:55-04:00

Second time... all of my training and emphasis on customs and courtesies allowed me to want to follow the spirit of the regulations and courtesies. When I was going to an outside area with a great probability that I will cross paths with an enlisted or senior officer, I made every effort, while inside, to be prepared to render the proper greeting, especially to to those with lesser rank who were going to initiate a salute. My intent, my desire, my spirit was to follow the rules. SGT Martin, if your general intent and desire is not to be respectful and not follow the spirit of the courtesy, then you might already know your answer. -- I have been retired for 19 years and have a full beard, but I still have a quick moment of regret when the Fort Sill gate guard salutes me. I know it is alright, because even active duty officers on leave might grow a full beard and are still saluted. It is just the spirit of the situation gives me a quick moment of uneasiness. -- The AR allows for not saluting when you are genuinely on task using both hands for a bulky items. My pet peeve on active duty was not putting your hands in your pockets, except to place or retrieve items. I did not brow beat folks, and my soldiers knew it was a thing for me, so they generally tried to not keep their hands in their pockets. In fact, a few of the worst offenders were standing around in the motor pool just relaxing and talking; I happened to be walking up the stairwell that had a window looking down to where they were and without knowing I was around, I noticed one SSG begin to put his hands in his pockets, but immediately pulled them out. I knew my work was done at that moment (smile). The second occurrence was after a training exercise, most everyone had finished cleaning their equipment and vehicles. I noticed the commanders driver was not around, I went to the wash rack, he was the only one there washing his vehicle in the cold. He stopped for a moment and put his hands in his pockets to warm them. He did not see me, but as I approached, he turned around and quickly took his hands out of his pockets. I quickened my step to get to him and said, "Sometimes common sense has to prevail, it is ok to warm your hands in your pockets." -- SGT Martin, hopefully the officers in your community are indeed worthy of your desire and intent to follow not only the rule, but the spirit of the rule. More importantly, I hope you are worthy of your officers desire and intent to allow you the grace when you are not able to follow the rule and spirit of the rule in any military situation.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Jun 3 at 2023 11:47 AM

2023-06-03T11:47:29-04:00

A lot of BS about keeping your right hand free... If you are carrying multiple items, carry them safely - in both hands! AR 600-25 prevails! If you find yourself in a position where you need to render a salute, if possible, quickly shift items to one hand (balance the coffee cup on the binder) and render the salute. If this is not possible to do, nod your head and state "Good Morning Captain!". The CSM probably thought you could have safely freed up the right hand and saluted. It is difficult to get to the top NCO ranks if you are constantly making petty calls to Jr NCOs.

Response by PFC Charles Chambliss made Jun 3 at 2023 5:10 PM

2023-06-03T17:10:30-04:00

In today,s military some try to change traditions that are needed to maintain the discipline the military must have to complete their mission.

Response by SGT Walt Pozgay made Jun 5 at 2023 11:52 AM

2023-06-05T11:52:21-04:00

I feel like if you had made an effort to put the mug on the binder and salute, you would have been better off. I used to smoke and carry a mug and always found a way to free my right hand to render honors.

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Jun 6 at 2023 11:05 AM

2023-06-06T11:05:38-04:00

Pretty sure you just give the greeting. Or stand in front of the capt and CSM make a big show out of trying to hold the coffee and binder in the same hand while spilling the coffee over the CSM.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Jun 26 at 2023 4:10 PM

2023-06-26T16:10:58-04:00

The Correct Answer, is you should never have anything in your right hand that prevents you from rendering a proper Salute, with the proper greeting of the day.
AS a E-5 in the united states Army you should all ready know this.

If you have decided to carry one item in each hand , thinking you are being cleaver by finding a loophole that gives you a valid reason not to render a hand Salute, you are mistaken, you should always be prepared to take whatever is in your right hand and move it to your left hand, in order to give a proper Salute, with the proper greeting of the day, it not that difficult to do , it takes just for a few moments, then you can move the Binder or mug back to your right hand.

on the other hand, if you are carrying something to big and Bulky to easily move from one hand to anther, because both hands are full, then you are allowed to just give the Greeting of the day.

if the CSM Insist that you give a hand Salute, yet you still feel very strongly about the issue, I Recommend you give the proper Salute, with the greeting of the day, before you start asking questions for your Clarification on army regs .
After you have rendered your hand Salute with the proper Greeting of the day, you can Calmly, Politely, with all military Customs and courtesies and professionalism, explain to the CSM , That you meant no Disrespect to him, the CPT, Or the Army, that you truly believed that you were following Army regulations as per AR600-25, and seeing how you are working on making Staff SGT, you would greatly Appreciate a education on why you were Mistaken.

If the CSM gives you a satisfactory answer, then all is well, if the CSM gives you a answer that you disagree with, I recommend being very carful on how far you want to push, some battles are not worth the headache they bring at a later date.

like I use to tell my son, when he was learning to drive, and he would complained about anther driver cutting him off, or the driver would run a red light, My Son would say he had the right of way, according to the drivers hand book he was in the right.

I would explain to my son, yes he was right, but did he want to be seriously injured or dead right? as per the driver hand book? it is best not to have road rage.
there a time and place to pick these battles. they are not to be waged in public,

sometimes it best to let things go, wait for the right time to speak to the CSM , about the issue

you are most likely asking yourself, what does this story have to do with when to give or not give a hand salute?
the answer is simple , is this a issue , a battle or hill worth fighting for?
will it be worth being on the CSM Radar?
once you are on the Radar of senior leadership, they start looking very hard at everything you do, they start looking at your every action, on customs, courtesies, & leadership, etc this can effect future advancements & promotions .

do not misunderstand me, I am not saying not to ask legitimate questions, this is how you learn to become a better service member, but if you are just trying to find a way of not having to give the proper salute, then don't waste your time.
I myself have delt with many Junior personal playing fast and loose with regulations thinking they were being smart, it only bit them in the backside.
just remember you might win this battle , but you most likely will lose the war.

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Jun 28 at 2023 9:29 AM

2023-06-28T09:29:14-04:00

I hate to say this, but you have to attempt to always keep your right hand free. If you have "a binder" and a coffee mug, you can easily tug the binder in your left armpit and the cup in your left hand and salute. An NCO is expected to solve the problem or prevent the problem from occuring. Hence: "Piss poor planning, Piss poor execution, lead to piss poor result." You can do it, young buck. I have faith the the future CSM potential like you. Whooaa!

Response by SSgt Juan Aguilar Richard made Jun 29 at 2023 10:40 AM

2023-06-29T10:40:38-04:00

Hello Folks,
I read your post and it reminded me how many time I had to stop what I was doing to follow customs and courtesies. I did some online research and according to the guideline given you are on the right side of this situation. However, that does not mean you can enforce this regulation on your seniors and commanders. Therefore, I went forward a little bit further and presented the query to a "Artificial Intelligence ChatBot, with a very nice Language Processing Code, "phenomenal". Gentleman (You)

This were the steps recommended: to the Gentleman.
// In the situation you describe, the gentleman seems to have been in accordance with AR 600-25, which is the U.S. Army regulation governing salutes. It's important for members of the military to adhere to regulations and procedures, but it's also important to recognize that some senior members might have their own interpretations or expectations.
// Here are steps the gentleman can take to address the situation and prepare for the possibility of it happening again:
1) Educate Himself: Before addressing the issue, he should ensure that he fully understands the regulations. Re-reading AR 600-25 and possibly discussing it with peers or a superior officer he trusts might provide clarity.
10) Prepare for Future Encounters: If the issue is likely to recur, he might want to practice how he will address it in the future, or consider altering his routine to avoid the situation if possible.
2) Document the Incident: Write down a detailed account of what happened, including date, time, and location. This can be useful if there is a need to refer back to the incident later.
3) Seek Advice: Before approaching the CSM or CPT, it might be wise to seek advice from a trusted superior or peer, preferably someone with more experience in military protocols.
4) Approach the CSM Politely: In a respectful manner, he could request to speak with the CSM privately. During the conversation, he can explain that according to his understanding of AR 600-25, he is not required to salute when carrying items in both hands. He should communicate that he respects the rank and does not intend any disrespect.
6) Ask for Clarification: Ask the CSM if there is a unit-specific or unwritten protocol that he should be aware of regarding saluting when hands are full.
9) Record the Outcome: Depending on the outcome of these conversations, he should make a record of how the issue was resolved. This may be useful for future reference.
5) Offer a Solution: Suggest an alternative way of showing respect when carrying items in both hands, such as greeting with a verbal acknowledgment.
7) Speak to the Chain of Command if Necessary: If the issue is not resolved through conversation with the CSM, he may need to bring it up with his immediate superior or someone else in his chain of command.
8) Consider Training or Informative Session: Sometimes, these situations arise from misunderstandings or lack of knowledge about the regulations. The gentleman can suggest a training or information session about saluting protocols to prevent similar incidents in the future.

Remember, it's important that the gentleman remains respectful and professional throughout this process. In the military, chain of command and respect for rank are critical, so how he communicates is just as important as what he communicates.
END of Response.
As you can see the step numbers are out of order, although the statement remains complete, I rearranged the order which I believe you should follow, to record events use a personal logbook.
Warning:
Treat this issue with outmost respect, Please don't become arrogant thinking you're holding high moral ground, since this issue plus bad attitude will back fire on you. Now I have to say this, If you are instigating their reactions to your provocation, then Karma is a *itch my friend.
***Suggestion: Carry files in your backpack and mug on left hand, keep R-hand free.

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Jun 30 at 2023 8:52 AM

2023-06-30T08:52:48-04:00

You could just say "Good morning Sir or Mam. That was the case 50 years ago. It may be a part of ego on their part.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Jun 30 at 2023 1:13 PM

2023-06-30T13:13:01-04:00

You are not going to appreciate any answers you might get on here.

So you were carry a coffee mug? Enjoying some brew, I gather? Sounds like premeditated ha ha "I have an excuse to not salute. And I have the regs on my side.
Carry on.

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Jul 1 at 2023 8:28 PM

2023-07-01T20:28:23-04:00

Obviously not. Your hands are full.

You asking this question means your Drill Sergeant failed you, therefore you need to repeat basic training.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jul 4 at 2023 2:39 PM

2023-07-04T14:39:21-04:00

In the Marine Corps if your hands are legitmately occupied you only need to give a verbal greeting. However I'm not sure a mug and a binder would qualify. It doesn'tsound like it would be a big deal to move the mug to the smae hand as your binder.
When I was in 2nd Mar. Div.Headquaters Bn nack in '65 there was a Major who would make you drop a wheel barrow to free up your hands to render a salute. A peice of work.

Response by LT Michaline Schalton made Jul 31 at 2023 4:03 PM

2023-07-31T16:03:33-04:00

Gotta keep that right hand free at all times. Sorry. That's the rules on the ground regardless of what the AR say.

Response by SGT Louis Perrault made Aug 13 at 2023 2:48 PM

2023-08-13T14:48:01-04:00

In the 1980's we were told not salute but acknowledge the officer...nothing more

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Sep 3 at 2023 4:11 PM

2023-09-03T16:11:15-04:00

The answer is yes, however, the it begs the question is a coffee cup encumbering? I was carrying a box once with both hands, an LT walked past myself and a companion who had his hand free. The Lt asked "Sailor, is there something wrong with your elbow?" to which Tim reached his hand out as if to shake hands thinking the young LT was a member of the Jesse L Brown missile frigate which Tim was TDA to the Charleston Naval Hospital for shoulder surgery...I smiled at the red faced LT and said "Tim, I think he wants you to salute him." My Cheshire grin was because I knew the LT knew that I knew I did not have to salute him as I had my hands on the box. Tim saluted and then the annoyed LT walked on past. :) I waited until he was out of earshot to bust up laughing. I knew two first classes that would go out of their way to force an officer to salute... they would run across the street and stagger themselves to make him salute twice... their philosophy was "Well, whose making who salute?" :)

Response by SGT David Bower made Sep 3 at 2023 7:16 PM

2023-09-03T19:16:05-04:00

Has the Military really changed so much that a question like that (from an NCO no less) even arises ? The fact that you challenge this almost requires them to invoke ucmj action. Just go home while you can before you get yourself into a deeper frying pan. It’s very difficult in society to have a discharge other than honorable. The punishment never stops.

Response by MAJ William Newton made Sep 4 at 2023 9:48 AM

2023-09-04T09:48:26-04:00

Oh, lord no! Full hands are understandable, especially with babies or toddlers! A nod of recognition is sufficient. And in one situation decades ago, "I don't blame you, corporal. Were I you, I'd be holding hands with her myself!"

Response by SGT Frank Hewes made Sep 4 at 2023 4:45 PM

2023-09-04T16:45:27-04:00

If you were carrying something that needed both hands, you would have been ok. However, it is easy to carry a mug and binder(s) on the left side with the right hand free.

Response by LCDR Frankie Alvarez made Sep 5 at 2023 2:54 PM

2023-09-05T14:54:16-04:00

I retired as an 0-4 but had 16 years enlisted before commission. I was taught not to carry anything in your right hand. I practiced that advice through my entire career up until I aged out at 62. As an officer I always knew there was a higher ranking officer just about anywhere you go so I kept my hand free to salute them as required. Equally or more important was returning salutes. I saluted everyone as if they were wearing four stars. It is an honor to salute no matter who salutes first. My feeling and my experience is that the people who have problems saluting or with the respect given both ways usually don’t excel and they are usually the person who does all the complaining and very little of the work. I found that to be true of both officers and enlisted and I have experience on both sides.

Response by SSG Bill Moore made Sep 5 at 2023 11:12 PM

2023-09-05T23:12:33-04:00

If you can't hold a binder and a mug in your left hand and crook of elbow or under shoulder, you don't belong in my military.

Response by CPT Kenneth Losey made Sep 7 at 2023 5:25 PM

2023-09-07T17:25:08-04:00

I don't know the full circumstances, but a couple of thoughts come to mind. The first is that the CSM might have just been being a dick. But the second thought is that since this is your second incident, you might be seeking conflict. My advice is to consider your actions in light of what they might be implying. Not saying you were in the wrong, but any time you find yourself in conflict you need to examine your possible culpability - especially if history repeats itself.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2023 3:18 AM

2023-09-08T03:18:45-04:00

Yeah brother a mug and binder ain’t gonna cut it. The only way I ever got away with not saluting an officer was when I was moving heavy boxes out of the unit and even then I still acknowledged them. You could’ve put the binder under your left arm and switched the mug to your left and rendered the salute.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Sep 8 at 2023 8:56 AM

2023-09-08T08:56:44-04:00

If you are holding something in BOTH hands and don't salute me and acknowledge me, then I will return your actions. If you have a cell phone in your right hand and don't salute, I may well discuss the issue with you - unless the Chief does it for me.

Response by SSG Jim Campbell made Sep 8 at 2023 7:18 PM

2023-09-08T19:18:46-04:00

Your error, SGT Martin. You're required to leave your right hand free when you're in saluting territory.
(Or, see LTC Burch's comment.)

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Sep 8 at 2023 9:45 PM

2023-09-08T21:45:52-04:00

This has been addressed before. YOU are looking for an excuse to not render a long held tradition of saluting officers. You need to recognize your place, the oath and commitment that you agreed to. The alternative is to become an officer and either be an a-hole to enlisteds like you are or be forgiving when they are deliberately carrying items like you were just to be an a-hole against officers.

Response by SSG John Naquin made Sep 9 at 2023 12:15 AM

2023-09-09T00:15:01-04:00

Do not be an idgit. Carry binder and mug in left hand. You are to salute with right hand at any time needed. Somebody needs to take away this soldiers rank and send him back through boot camp

Response by PO1 Frank Downs made Sep 9 at 2023 5:05 PM

2023-09-09T17:05:03-04:00

WOW
Is military courtesy even taught in boot camp anymore? Not to mention critical problem solving like how to move objects from right hand to left hand and render the salute. China is going to kick our ass.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2023 9:03 AM

2023-09-10T09:03:42-04:00

It depends on why your hands are occupied. If you're carrying a piece of paper in both hands, put them both in one hand (silly example, but you get the point). If you're carrying a box that requires two hands... carry on (no pun intended).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2023 2:31 PM

2023-09-10T14:31:27-04:00

Playing devils advocate here, but couldn’t you have switched both items to your left hand for all of 10 seconds and saluted? But you are correct, AR 600-25 does stay if you are carrying stuff in both hands or doing something that makes saluting impractical, the appropriate greeting of the day is fine. While this is a fine example of yet another CSM who doesn’t know regulations, choose your battles my guy.

Response by Maj Gail Lofdahl made Sep 10 at 2023 10:07 PM

2023-09-10T22:07:21-04:00

When I retired, I still tended to carry everything in my left hand (it was the hardest habit to break). But if a bad guy were trying to identify a military member in civilian clothes, that habit would be a red flag, wouldn't it?

Response by SGT Paul Lux made Sep 11 at 2023 7:09 AM

2023-09-11T07:09:13-04:00

You have obviously discovered that 600-25 is meant to cover situations where you are carrying something large/heavy (like a box, an ammo crate, an unwieldy object requiring both hands, etc.). THEN you would not try to empty your hand to render a proper salute.

A binder? I believe they have flat surfaces that a coffee mug will rest upon. I also believe binders will tuck under arms. Sorry, I’m with the CSM on this one. At the very least, make the effort when the encounter begins to empty your hands and give the officer an opportunity to tell you it is not necessary.

Response by Sgt Charles Hays made Sep 11 at 2023 7:47 AM

2023-09-11T07:47:04-04:00

Back in the 50s we were told not to salute while on the flight line but anyplace else, standard military courtesy was expected.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2023 11:39 AM

2023-09-11T11:39:08-04:00

As an Officer, I make an extra effort to carry extra items in my left hand so that I'm always available to return a salute. It would be pretty crappy of me to be honored with a salute and not return it because I was carrying a binder and a mug. If you were unloading cargo or carrying a heavy load, of course, no Officer would expect a salute. The greeting of the day is perfectly fine.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2023 12:56 PM

2023-09-11T12:56:58-04:00

Your CSM was wrong.
I, being the smart aleck that I am, would have just dropped everything and saluted. Then I would would gotten down and picked or mopped up everything.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Sep 11 at 2023 5:16 PM

2023-09-11T17:16:11-04:00

I think this may be one of those differences between Army and AF culture. If it is easy to put things to my left hand or under my arm, I would try that. If I truly cannot do that, I will simply offer a verbal greeting. That CSM seems to be overbearing, but it is what it is. What are you going to do, tell him no? Yea, I did not think so.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Sep 12 at 2023 11:30 AM

2023-09-12T11:30:28-04:00

To my understanding no you don't. If it is something that you you can switch hands real quick then yes. But if both hands are holding something then no however, greeting of the day is a must followed by with a Sir or Ma'am. Don't quote me on that. Anyone out there that is reading this please correct me on that. I don't want to give out wrong information.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Sep 13 at 2023 8:50 AM

2023-09-13T08:50:18-04:00

No of course not; you just need to UN-occupy them.
There all fixed.

Response by PFC Doyle Hayes made Sep 13 at 2023 10:05 AM

2023-09-13T10:05:59-04:00

Yes

Response by SGT Adrian Simmons made Sep 13 at 2023 6:39 PM

2023-09-13T18:39:34-04:00

Unless they've changed the rules,no you don't have to salute.but I guess the CSM figured you could have put one of the items in the none saluteing hand to show respect.but that's doing to much

Response by LT William Pellegrini made Sep 25 at 2023 1:21 PM

2023-09-25T13:21:45-04:00

I am, or was an officer and I would never require an enlisted man who is holding something in both hands to salute me. Unless, of course, you are holding a pencil in one hand and a note book in the other. A salute is after all an action that shows respect for the person being saluted, as well as respect for the person giving the salute. If what you have in your right hand can easily be transferred to your left hand or a pocket, then you should do that and salute. In my opinion coffee in one hand and a note book in another does not meet the easy to transfer action, so simply acknowledging the officer should be enough.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Oct 3 at 2023 12:59 AM

2023-10-03T00:59:36-04:00

Seriously?
You've never tucked your binder under your arm and switched hands for your cup?
Hell, I got so used to it, even today I can't carry a binder in my hand. It always gets tucked.
Now if your hands were full of books or equipment, that may be another story.
I'm sure the saying still applies:
"If in doubt, whip it out."

At the least, make an effort.
In a training environment, expect the strict enforcement.
Garrison, it depends on your command. You should know who to avoid.
In the field, be sure to use "Sniper Check" as the greeting of the day

Now if you were on a work detail, you keep working while the team leader addresses the officer. But that is a totally different scenario.

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Nov 18 at 2023 3:45 AM

2023-11-18T03:45:08-05:00

Pretty sad, there are CSMs out there who think they can do no wrong. Any officer worth their salt would understand the situation.

Response by CW4 Jimmy Robinson made Nov 24 at 2023 1:52 PM

2023-11-24T13:52:59-05:00

Seriously, you are not coordinated enough to transfer both items to your left hand and surrender your salute with the right? Really.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Nov 24 at 2023 6:45 PM

2023-11-24T18:45:54-05:00

Was it impossible to put the mug on the binder to free up your right hand and render the salute?

Response by PO1 Robert Ryan made Nov 25 at 2023 10:19 AM

2023-11-25T10:19:39-05:00

When I was stationed at Fort Campbell My wife and I were walking In the PX Parking Lot, Had a Bag of stuff we got at the exchange in one hand and carrying my baby daughter with my right hand. My wife was holding the hand of my other daughter with her left hand. A Colonel was coming near us, I said "Good morning sir, my WIFE lifted her right hand up and saluted the Colonel. He looked at her and said "Carry On Soldier".

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Jan 12 at 2024 11:21 AM

2024-01-12T11:21:12-05:00

You are correct and the CSM is wrong. I find it interesting that a CSM at this point in his/her career doesn't know the regulation on saluting with hands full.

Response by CMSgt Paul Palko made Jan 13 at 2024 12:22 AM

2024-01-13T00:22:08-05:00

Good lord, man...you're not some domesticated servant, and some circumstances will not be amenable to the customary courtesies. The CSM was for whatever reason a bit more strident than necessary...but that presupposes you could not salute, versus situating yourself such that you felt you could deny the normal courtesy. Broadly, avoid such situations. It's part of the culture, and does not diminish anyone. If you literally could n8t, you needn't...a verbal greeting suffices.

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Jan 13 at 2024 3:35 PM

2024-01-13T15:35:03-05:00

This question is four years old so I'm wondering if anyone will even see new comments. But here goes. I was very well liked by all the Officers in every unit I had been assigned. I was not always well liked by all NCOs, though.
Anyway, I've had this happen to me once when I had both hands full of Medical supplies(I was a Medic at that time). I was approaching one of the Captains in my unit who I've gone to a German Restaurant with other Officers before. We were passing by each other and I simply said to him, "I salute you, Sir". He told me, "It's ok Bob, I see you got your hands full".
They called me Bob because of my last name. But it always seemed that I always got along way better with Officers than most of the NCOs. We hung out together off duty fraternizing be damned. Lol. Anyway, that's my unable to salute story. God Blessed. Happy New Year!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2024 11:16 PM

2024-01-13T23:16:16-05:00

If you are able to move the item to your left hand, do that and render the salute. If you're holding an item(s) that require both hands, then you don't salute, but you should still go to attention and render the greeting of the day.

Response by SGT Mark Seymour made Jan 14 at 2024 1:01 PM

2024-01-14T13:01:06-05:00

Frankly, it depends what you were carrying. If you’re carrying a heavy object, such as a printer or such then no, it’s not necessary. If you’re carrying something that you can shift to your left hand, then definitely render salute.

Response by CAPT Frank Nice made Jan 14 at 2024 2:30 PM

2024-01-14T14:30:25-05:00

What about holding an umbrella in right hand and carrying a heavy object in left hand?

Response by Brig Gen Joe Callahan made Jan 14 at 2024 3:19 PM

2024-01-14T15:19:34-05:00

If a service member is burdened or encumbered, a salute is not required but an acknowledgement is. Even if it’s a nod and a greeting “Afternoon Captain” would be sufficient.

However your coffee cup isn’t what I consider being encumbered. Either put the mug down, put it in the other hand with your binder or pass it to someone else.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Jan 14 at 2024 6:11 PM

2024-01-14T18:11:31-05:00

At this point I am yet again reminded why I am so very fucking glad I no longer have to put up with anyone's whim-driven idiocy because they are one step above me in the pecking order. You can't fix stupid.

As an E6, I once got my ass chewed in front of my subordinates by an E7, my supervisor, because I walked inside wearing a hat. I was in full battle rattle including M16, so definitely under arms. I had come to roust the section to the armory and we had a limited time to get armed. Fuckwad deprived the squadron of about 5 minutes of the 30 we had to get everyone armed and deployed to a distant location. I still remember this retard after nearly 40 years for nothing but that.

Throw the binder on the ground, transfer the coffee to the left hand, salute.

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Jan 14 at 2024 9:36 PM

2024-01-14T21:36:32-05:00

Dude, as much as I like coffee, never carry stuff with both hands if it doesn’t require it. If you’re carrying binders AND coffee, you’re wrong. Carry the binders out first, then go retrieve your coffee. If you have to walk the binders to another building, leave the coffee. I don’t know of any place I ever went into that did not have coffee.

Response by SPC Curtis Cobb made Jan 15 at 2024 1:17 PM

2024-01-15T13:17:28-05:00

Yes, and the CPT. Should've immediately corrected the dumbass CSM.

Response by MAJ Lyle F. Padilla made Jan 15 at 2024 5:26 PM

2024-01-15T17:26:15-05:00

If both hands are occupied, the proper action is to make eye contact with the officer and say, "Good morning/afternoon/evening, Sir/Ma'am!" A slight nod of the head is not inappropriate but not required. (I started out in the Air Force and defected to the Army a several years later. That's what the Air Force Customs and Courtesies Manual said when I started out in 1974, and it should be good for all services to the present day.)

Response by SSgt Michael Grafmuller made Jan 15 at 2024 5:27 PM

2024-01-15T17:27:09-05:00

The right answer is to salute because the binder could and should have been tucked under your left arm and coffee held in your left hand. To me it would have appeared as if you purposely ensured both hands were unnecessarily occupied

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Jan 15 at 2024 10:20 PM

2024-01-15T22:20:38-05:00

@SGT Gianna Martin This piece of insanity is still being beat to death - for over 3 years! Simply put, Sgt Martin seems to be a slow learner - it has happened to him on two occasions!. He needs to quit looking for excuses to not render a salute and do so with pride! The CSM was correct in making an on the spot correction. I found during my service that a person digging up AR Regs to figure out how to abuse the reg was normally just a troublemaker - deserving to be reprimanded. As for a lot of the responses to this insane question... Get your heads out of rectal defilade and think before you respond! Check out the attached Custom and Courtesies document and pay attention to figure 9-7. That's what it means to have your hands full!
https://media.defense.gov/2014/Feb/21/ [login to see] /-1/-1/1/140221-N-ZZ182-5356.pdf

140221-N-ZZ182-5356.pdf

Response by CW2 Robert Troop made Jan 17 at 2024 12:24 PM

2024-01-17T12:24:38-05:00

I pulled this out of AR600-25 Saluting and Officer. This is what it says : (see # 3) i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical.
(4) Working as a member of a detail or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety
hazard.
(5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances.
(6) In the ranks of a formation.

Based on the soldiers hands having a binder and a mug , he or she, should have placed the mug to the left hand and the binder should have been placed under their arm, and a hand salute should been given and a good day greeting should also be rendered. There are always Circumstances of course should be taken in considerations and acknowledgments as well, such as if a soldier was carrying a crate using the use of both hands , then a greeting of acknowledging " Good Morning, Afternoon or Evening to the officer should be accepted and no reprimand to the soldier should be given.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2024 7:27 PM

2024-01-23T19:27:56-05:00

It's common knowledge to AVOID any backlash from ANY OFFICER. Always keep that right hand empty!! Was the CSM wrong for telling you to render Salute to the CPT No he was not. Were you wrong for having both hands occupied No you was either. So I can only say to get a thermo with a handle or a loop ring. GOD SPEED!!

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Feb 24 at 2024 1:10 AM

2024-02-24T01:10:37-05:00

It might depend on the circumstances and surroundings when you encountered the officer, but I would suggest you find a way to carry both the mug and the binder with your left arm or hand and keep the right hand free for a salute. If the mug was full of liquid that might be a problem. There are times you have to carry something that requires both hands. Were I the officer you encountered I would acknowledge the greeting and carry on. The question comes down to how avoidable the circumstaces are that have your hands occupied. No person of any rank is incapable of common sense when circumstances make it appropriate.

Response by SSgt James Harvey made Feb 26 at 2024 5:58 PM

2024-02-26T17:58:08-05:00

I'm not sure a "binder and a mug" would pass as a load that required both hands, that is typically relegated to larger items that you need to use both hands for safety. Now obviously my knowledge of this issue is Air Force and from ancient times, but there you go, don't carry stuff in your right hand. CSM was correct.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Feb 26 at 2024 6:05 PM

2024-02-26T18:05:38-05:00

That provision is for truly being hands full: carrying a litter with a patient, actively manipulating tools, holding something steady, MP’s conducting an investigation or making an apprehension, or when doing so would create a safety concern, etc. The colonel is correct, small object in each hand no.

Response by SGM Ronald Russ made Feb 27 at 2024 1:11 PM

2024-02-27T13:11:06-05:00

If you haven’t learned from your first two mistakes… on approaching this situation on your third try (mistake) if you haven’t understood what to do just…stop 6-10 steps away; empty your hands assume the front lean and rest; push until you are are told to recover. Then seriously consider if you are in the right place. Military is built on customs and traditions for a reason. Not for you to make excuses why you can’t follow them.

Response by SSG Dale London made Feb 28 at 2024 8:51 PM

2024-02-28T20:51:03-05:00

If your hands are full in the line of duty, I would say no. However, you should acknowledge the officer and render the greeting of the day.
Please note that this is only applicable if you CANNOT free your right hand and you are actually performing a task that requires it to be occupied: for example, you are carrying an artillery round or something else that requires two hands.

Response by Sgt Joseph Mchugh made Feb 29 at 2024 1:18 PM

2024-02-29T13:18:18-05:00

You can only salute an officer with your right hand anyway so the only way you could avoid that is try to get both articles in your left hand.

Response by SSG Marion Griffin made Mar 4 at 2024 10:13 AM

2024-03-04T10:13:28-05:00

No you don't have to salute give the CPT a greeting and continue on your way if the CSM is not happy with that go to JAG and fight any type of UCMJ action.

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Mar 4 at 2024 10:29 AM

2024-03-04T10:29:13-05:00

If you are encumbered with both your hands you are not required to render a salute, however, I question the "cup of coffee" excuse. I had at one time been walking across base with another sailor and I had a heavy box in both hands, being engaged in a discussion with my fellow PO he did not see the butter bar walking by whom turned and asked "Is something wrong with your elbow, sailor?" My buddy Tim had injured himself by tearing his shoulder out of socket and was on TDU with the Charleston Naval hospital at the time, thinking he was being addressed by one of the members of the Jessee L Brown crew who knew about his injury Tim extended his hand as if to shake the butter bar's hand...and the little butter bar's face soured. I said "Tim, I think he wants you to salute him." Now, I have to admit, I had the Chesshire cat grin going on because I was purposeful fkng with the butter bar since I knew that he knew that I did not have to put the box down and salute him. His face turned beet red, my buddy Tim popped tall and saluted the butter bar who returned the salute all the while I had a shit eating grin ear to ear because Butter Bar knew that I was fkng with him. Knowing the rules the game can be fun.

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Mar 6 at 2024 8:40 PM

2024-03-06T20:40:34-05:00

You salute is always the right answer

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 24 at 2024 6:21 PM

2024-03-24T18:21:29-04:00

If both hands were really occupied you would not be required to salute. However it would not be that much of a hardship to move the coffee cup to the hand with the binder and render a salute. As far as I am concerned the reprimand was legit.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Mar 25 at 2024 9:41 PM

2024-03-25T21:41:21-04:00

Call an Uber. Stay inside until your Uber arrives and make a run for it as the Captain and the CSM approach. Lie and tell them the Colonel needs his coffee and his binder as your Uber speeds away.

Another way of handling this situation is switch shirts with someone before you go outside. That way the name on your shirt gets the reprimand while you go free.

Response by SFC Chris Weaver made Apr 4 at 2024 7:06 PM

2024-04-04T19:06:30-04:00

As long as you acknowledge them with the greeting of the day and Sir or Ma’am any Officer should be ok with that. Maybe a simple apology for not being able to salute if you feel the need.
Know the regulation quote it respectfully and fully.
Any Officer or NCO who honestly has issue with that has their own issues.

Response by SFC Bruce Brady made Apr 10 at 2024 1:34 PM

2024-04-10T13:34:24-04:00

There is literal interpretation, and there is intent. For example, the intent of that guidance was for someone carrying awkward, or heavy, or two-handed objects. Someone who carries around a coffee cup and a binder, in my opinion, is trying to stretch that interpretation to avoid saluting. I'm sure things are much less stringent these days, but if it is reasonable to transfer objects to your left hand for the purpose of rendering a salute, then you are expected to do so. That is what the CSM is looking at. However, there are a lot of officers (above 2LT anyway) who are equally annoyed with saluting during day-to-day activities. I'm just saying, especially if the CSM is there, I wouldn't push it with this weak example of "hands full".

Response by CPO David Ransom made Apr 11 at 2024 10:50 AM

2024-04-11T10:50:07-04:00

If you SHOULD be carrying a beverage, use a tumbler with a top to avoid spillage. Tuck binder under left arm and salute. Pull out handkerchief you carry for first aid purposes and offer to CSM silently (No, don't do this last one, really).

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made Apr 12 at 2024 4:06 PM

2024-04-12T16:06:11-04:00

You have a binder in one hand and a coffee cup in the other. Move them both to the same hand, cradling the binder in your elbow. Then salute. How difficult is that to figure out?

Response by Cadet A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2024 7:45 AM

2024-04-18T07:45:23-04:00

maybe