Do leaders counsel subordinates on civilian education?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 12:17:59 -0400

Civilian ed is extremely important in today's Army. Do you as leaders counsel your subordinates on the importance of it? There is universities that are regionally accredited that are also military friendly. They award credit to Soldiers for training received that is annotated on there JST. Seven of my junior Soldiers received 36 semester hours (72 promotion points) for just submitting there JST.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 12:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 12:30:19 -0400

Every single time i counsel one of my Soldiers, enlisted or officer, whether I am their rater or senior rather, I include civilian education. In the Army right now it is too easy and cost effective to NOT continue your civilian education, and whether or not they plan on making the military a career the payoff will still be huge. Quite often the only real excuse for not pursuing advanced schooling while on active duty is simply laziness, and that is unacceptable.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 12:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 12:45:50 -0400

I have. It's up to them to listen to me or not. I can't make anyone take college courses. I can push it and highlight it in counseling. It's up to them to take the steps. I don't babysit and hold hands. If someone doesn't want to advance themselves that's their problem. I even counsel them when they say they aren't making a career in the Army to figure out what they want to do after they get out because time flies by fast.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 12:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 12:59:27 -0400

I don't have any Soldiers right now, but during my NCO days I always did. Some Soldiers were more receptive than others. Unfortunately many didn't seem to care until they got ready to put in their E-5 packet and they didn't have a single promotion point from civ ed. Then they were scrambling for a way to get those points in order to be competitive.

Response by SGT Andrew Register made May 21 at 2017 1:33 PM

SGT Andrew Register — Sun, 21 May 2017 13:33:01 -0400

If not, they should. I sure did.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 5:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:01:38 -0400

Everyone in my section is doing civilian ed of some kind. I have taken soldiers to the ed center and had them sit down with the advisors.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 5:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:17:28 -0400

Counseling on civilian education is important and we must continue to do so as leaders. As leaders we are trying to broaden our subordinates ability to achieve goals and provide them the ability to progress during their tenure in the Army. The financial ability is there for them and its best that they take advantage of it. When looking at it from a promotion stand point, I was the only one in my CMF that was selected during the SFC board that had completed a degree which I assumed that it gave me the edge on making the selection list. Especially that I was the only one in my MOS that was selected that year for SFC. Let's continue to make our Soldiers better leaders and better than we are for the future of the Army.

Response by SSG Chance Ledford made May 21 at 2017 6:34 PM

SSG Chance Ledford — Sun, 21 May 2017 18:34:46 -0400

Its well worth counseling the lower enlisted to sign up for classes (whether online or at a local campus near home duty station), especially when not on deployments. Civilian education helps enlisted men and women to gain additional promotion points, and helps them set themselves a part from their peers.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 7:05 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 19:05:56 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I only have done it informally and not in writing. I tell them of the benefits and what opportunities that they have, but I do not force the issue. The only time I do formal is when individuals are applying for West Point, etc.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 7:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 19:40:37 -0400

Wait, are you saying there are other types of counseling besides negatives? I'll believe it when I see it... :)

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made May 21 at 2017 9:06 PM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Sun, 21 May 2017 21:06:47 -0400

NCO's should be doing this. I sure did and a couple of NCOs did it for me. The section sergeant went so far as to clear it all the way up to the brigade commander..we had no excuses. It sure did push me in the right direction.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 9:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 May 2017 21:37:40 -0400

I have in the past. You really don't see junior soldiers going to school often. I have seen NCOs do this more often. But one of my big concerns is the the accreditation of the school.

Response by SSG Angela Koch made May 22 at 2017 8:02 PM

SSG Angela Koch — Mon, 22 May 2017 20:02:23 -0400

Yes, I felt both online and classroom were important and gave each soldier the opportunity to take college courses and would adjust duty roster to ensure the soldier could complete them. I retired in July 2011.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made May 22 at 2017 11:21 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Mon, 22 May 2017 23:21:09 -0400

Short answer, absolutely. Explanation; I owe my career to a Major who sort of counseled me as a newly promoted Captain. I had no degree and had been commissioned through an enlisted commissioning program. Has successfully completed flight school, had a reasonably good combat tour and had been meritoriously augmented. I knew I was the world's best pilot and was flying high for making Captain. The Major called me into his office and told me he wanted me to be a career officer and expected me to show him paperwork that I had enrolled at the local college within a week. With him pushing me, I kept taking courses. Sure enough, a few years later I got a letter from CMC telling me I was career limited by my lack of a degree. Thanks to the Major, I could submit credible evidence that I was pursuing a degree and was selected for Major with my peers. Thanks Hank Tutterow, RIP.

Response by SSG Jeffrey South made May 24 at 2017 9:49 PM

SSG Jeffrey South — Wed, 24 May 2017 21:49:30 -0400

I always talked to my soldiers about the importance of civilian education while in the military and after they get out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2017 7:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 May 2017 07:30:09 -0400

I believe it is a must do for all leaders. I share my civilian education knowledge with not only my NCOs but any NCO within my surrounding. I mentored them on how to capitalize on their military training and experience(NCOERs, 1059s, DLPTs, technical certification and college portfolio evaluation). I don't force them to enroll in college, but I make sure they know everything I know and point them in the right direction.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2017 4:05 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 May 2017 04:05:15 -0400

It is very important that we do counsel our soldiers on the importance of civilian education. Most soldiers (to include NCOs) will give you every excuse in the book on why they cannot take a college course, however, I think most are scared because they are not sure how to manage a full time career and college at the same time. I always share my experience with my soldiers to let them know that I came in the Army with no college and within 13 years I completed both my bachelors and masters degree. What I also found to be helpful is to share the AAR comments after each SFC board to show where board members are looking for the civilian education, this normally pushes SOME Jr. NCOs to go after it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2017 5:44 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 May 2017 05:44:22 -0400

Definitely, its part of their professional and personal development. I always include in every initital counseling for my junior enlisted Soldiers and my NCOER counselings for my NCOs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2017 9:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 May 2017 21:04:07 -0400

Instead of just counseling soldiers on college, NCO's and leaders should also point out to those counseled that trade schools are a great way to support a family and the service. I am a Field Artilleryman but I know Master Electricians, HVAC technicians (Pipefitters) Master Carpenters, Master plumbers. This will not only help the soldier earn a paycheck of $25-$30 / hr, but during a deployment can & will help the service.

TRADE SCHOOLS and not college.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2017 1:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 01:24:10 -0400

There is no reason not to. Civilian education is just as important as military education in my opinion.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2017 5:52 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Jun 2017 17:52:00 -0400

With-out it, seeking SFC or higher can take longer!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2018 5:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 05:54:51 -0500

Yes. I also provide tools to help them plan out and organize their civilian education path, so that its easier to maintain motivation over the years. My goal is to live vicariously through them, by helping them obtain their education goals at a faster pace than I did/am. I informally engage them on at least a weekly basis to ask how their classes are going and to spark brief conversation about their forum discussion topic for the week. This also helps me get an early detection of whether they are struggling and are at risk of failing.