Do Mortar FDC personnel still maintain a proficiency with the M16 Plotting Board?

SFC J Fullerton — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:18:38 -0400

With the Fire Direction technology we have, is it still important for 11C NCO's to be able to compute fire missions with just a map, protractor, plotting board, pencil, and firing tables/whiz wheel?

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 2:20 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:20:11 -0400

In the USMC they do. Cant speak for any other branch.

You may want to add a tag of 0341 to you original post to include Marine mortarman

Response by SGT Jesus Vasquez made Apr 7 at 2016 2:20 PM

SGT Jesus Vasquez — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:20:56 -0400

Nope. Not with the new system. I saw them and than packed them away

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 7 at 2016 2:46 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:46:07 -0400

Like many things, keeping old school around is a good thing when technology craps out. Can't think of the number of times when china markers and plastic saved the day. Some things like having to write backwards with vertical plots are not taught anymore because there are no vertical plots on ships. So some old school is the stuff of museums.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 3:01 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:01:03 -0400

If they don't , they should. Our MBCs failed all the time on deployment.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Apr 7 at 2016 8:35 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:35:43 -0400

I was an Artillery FDC ops Chief and a 81 MM Mortar Platoon Sergeant. The USMC started using computerized fire direction in the mid 80s and early 90s. We always had a firing chart as a back-up and I always insisted on doing manual gunnery during training. It's not so much for a back up but it also teaches the principles of ballistics and FDC personnel who are trained in manual gunnery have a better sense when the data is incorrect. If an FDC computer operator inputs a wrong digit into the data and the firing info is incorrect someone who knows manual gunnery will see the huge difference in data and know its off and recheck the entries.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2016 2:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 02:49:45 -0400

I think it is very important to keep proficiency on the plotting board. I have my Soldiers on them as much as possible. When we do FDC exams plotting boards are part of it. You never know when a system is going to crash or batteries run out. To me it is just like land nav, just because we have a bunch of fancy GPS doesn't mean we don't need to know how to read a map or get from point A to point B with just a map and compass.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Apr 8 at 2016 12:24 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:24:45 -0400

Not sure if IMLC at Fort Benning is still teaching and testing it. I am sure probably is in some form, maybe not as advanced. I went in 2001 and after MBC went into about 3 weeks of plotting board. Had to do about every thing an FDC could possibly do with a plotting board. The wheel of death got some guys sent home.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 9 at 2016 3:31 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 15:31:59 -0400

Technology is a Great thing but one boom with an EMP Weapon and all high tech stuff is fried. Always good to have a Back-Up just in case.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2016 1:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:25:11 -0400

I am not a fan, at all, of the plotting board. It's tedious, and just frustrating as all get out....however, you cannot replace it's value with any amount of technology.
Rest assured your technology will fail you, and then what? Are you going to be that platoon sergeant or section leader that cannot provide fires for troops in contact because you can't pull out the ol beast?
Yes, it's old. Yes, it sucks. But it is the one piece of equipment that should never be completely neglected.

Response by SGT Wayne Gains made Apr 12 at 2016 5:58 PM

SGT Wayne Gains — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 17:58:30 -0400

just got the GPS before I got out. told the guys in my mortar squad time to go hit the map reading and compass class. said why sgt gains. "well imagine this. you are out in a combat area and the supply lines get broken. all at once your batteries go on in your wonderful little toy. how do you plan on going from point a to point b if you too dumb to read a map."

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2016 8:13 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 08:13:02 -0400

The Marine Corps does. I'm not going to say every Marine knows how. But a majority of the senior guys in the Mortar Plt do know it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2016 11:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:35:33 -0400

Well first of all its a requirement not an option for FDC sections to maintain proficiency with these systems. Aside from that, being proficient with these systems will help the FDC conceptualize the OE. It allows you to understand what the LHMBC or MFCS is doing whe but does what it does. You cannot replace the first hand knowledge of the environment around you with a computer. I agree with the argument that technology will always fail you at the worst time possible. So yes I believe that FDC must maintain proficiently with the plotting boards.

Unfortunately because of the way our Army is changing, becoming more efficient, more networked and reliable on technology our future leaders are becoming disconnected from these systems. I'm not sure how we do it but we have to find a way to maintain continuity between the knowledge and experience that older soldiers E7s + and the juniors leaders coming up now!!

Response by SSG Leroy Farmer made Apr 29 at 2016 4:16 PM

SSG Leroy Farmer — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:16:11 -0400

I retired on 2004. We had plotting board classes monthly.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 2:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 14:32:17 -0400

Yes.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 4:39 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 16:39:39 -0400

One might ask the same question about CBRN NCOs ability to plot hazard area predictions and develop chemical downwind messages using maps and protractors, and (in the case of nuclear), nomograms out of a field manual or GTA overlay.

The answer is the same for both. When everything else fails, I know I can still do a hazard prediction in the dark with a map, protractor and a chem light. Despite having training on CPOF and JWARN, I still run my section with scenarios on old-fashioned maps.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 8:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 May 2016 08:06:18 -0400

In my unit, we keep up with the plotting board because it's a secondary safety when we fire

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 5:11 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 May 2016 17:11:06 -0400

hell yea, conventional suits the light infantry too well just because its too much weight for high tech cool guy stuff

Response by LCpl Darian Gray made Jun 9 at 2021 4:48 PM

LCpl Darian Gray — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:48:21 -0400

I wish we had 81's boards. 60s boards are small and kinda innacurate. 81's were gonna get us some boards because most of us had been 81s, but the line companies needed guys. We never got the new boards and some of us considered just buying them.

Response by Cpl Vincent Cavanagh made Apr 17 at 2022 5:00 PM

Cpl Vincent Cavanagh — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:00:04 -0400

I learned on it in IMLC, but primarily in the field we used the GameBoys (not sure what they were really called) because they were just faster. Everyone we had in the FDC could use the plotting boards, and I'm confident I still could even though I've been out of the service for about a decade.