Do NCOs/COs without combat patches get frowned upon?

2018-06-21T12:08:26-04:00

This is a good question yes?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 12:19 PM

2018-06-21T12:19:01-04:00

What do you mean is it a good question? A good question for what?

Some people do, some don't. Some people just don't wear them. Some haven't deployed. I honestly really don't care if I see a NCO or officer without a patch on their right arm. I don't know their story.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jun 21 at 2018 12:36 PM

2018-06-21T12:36:38-04:00

Prior to GWAT, there were probably many WOs, Os & NCOs without combat experience.
Prior to Gulf War there were probably many WOs, Os & NCOs without combat experience.
Prior to Vietnam War there were probably many WOs, Os & NCOs without combat experience.
Prior to Korean War there were probably many WOs, Os & NCOs without combat experience.
Prior to WW 2 there were probably many WOs, Os & NCOs without combat experience.
Prior to WW 1 there were probably many WOs, Os & NCOs without combat experience.
(You see where I'm going with this)

Experience is a great teacher--probably the best--and worthy of respect (I know I give experience a listen). That doesn't mean those with it must be the best leaders any more than those without it are not good leaders. So some people might frown on leaders without combat experience, but strip away the ego, and history has shown that many an inexperienced leader managed to step up and get the job done when the time came.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jun 21 at 2018 1:01 PM

2018-06-21T13:01:37-04:00

Not if you are brand new just out of basic or such; but it's probably pretty usual otherwise - after 18 years of un-declared (war) but active combat operations... if you are mid-grade or senior and no time downrange... yes, I suspect that many would find that.. inadequate!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 21 at 2018 2:24 PM

2018-06-21T14:24:01-04:00

No it just makes me curious.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Jun 21 at 2018 4:28 PM

2018-06-21T16:28:34-04:00

First I look at it as a deployment patch only about 1 to 3 percent of the people who deploy actually hear or fire their weapons in combat. And that is a high guess on my part. That does not take away from those who have not been shot at or did any shooting. We all have our crosses to bare. Many people have many reasons for not having a deployment patch. Some soldiers who want to go overseas just keep missing the plane so to speak due to position, MOS or rank. Some do not want to go. I cannot understand those people. And some are just avoiding it due to fear, I do not understand them either. Its OK to be afraid but never let it control you or make your decisions for you. But I will say this never pre-judge anyone or judge on what you may not understand. And just because someone has not deployed they may still be a great leader no matter what anyone thinks. Hell I had peers just hated my guts because of the way I walked how stupid and childish is that for senior NCOs to act. Did not find that out until I made E8 and finally brought the issue out. I just laughed at them all and walked away. So who really had the issue me for my walk or small minded NCOs. Do not let a small mind hurt you. just sayin

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jun 21 at 2018 5:50 PM

2018-06-21T17:50:58-04:00

Had an AD SFC and a ret Desert Storm SFC both tell me don't go chase them, let them come to you. The retired SFC asked me why I wanted to go so bad, and I could have his patches. They don't mean shit in the end.

I got nine patches due to being OPCONNED to everybody and their grandmother(feel like a rode hard, put away dry skripper afterwards). They don't mean shit for anything short of personal pride. As long as the NCO/Officer isn't one of those who ran Drill Sergeant school or lived in recruiting so they wouldn't be called up, I just don't care. The patch won't make you an expert on a damn thing. But at least I'm not wearing a 1st CAV patch. Life's great without that thing. #BRO till the end.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 6:00 PM

2018-06-21T18:00:24-04:00

Not necessarily. I have multiple deployments and I don’t always wear mine. There are also people who just never had the opportunity to deploy, at no fault of their own. With that being said, there are also “deployment dodgers” out there who went out their way to get out of deployments. After a while you can start to feel out which category people fall into. The people in the latter category might get some low key side eye but you still have to respect the rank.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 9:55 PM

2018-06-21T21:55:59-04:00

Let me ask you this....My Platoon Sergeant deployed to Afghanistan but does not wear his patch (he is not required to), does that mean you would frown upon him? I don't.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2018 12:01 AM

2018-06-22T00:01:44-04:00

Yes because most soldiers want leaders that have already been in combat. They also feel that if you as a leader haven’t been in combat then how can I follow you if you don’t know what you are doing as well!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2018 12:17 AM

2018-06-22T00:17:36-04:00

You can volunteer for deployments all you like, regardless of your rank and MOS. It doesn't guarantee you will get deployed. You can also get deployed without volunteering.

Some units constantly deploy. Some units don't deploy at all (like MEDDACs).

Ultimately, the Army decides where you go.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jun 22 at 2018 11:07 AM

2018-06-22T11:07:03-04:00

It's whole new ARMY now no one is getting combat patches and most of the soldiers who have combat patches are out or getting ready to retire. Not a lot of old timers around. NCO and Officer still worked their way to the top so they better get respect. It's not their fault the ARMY didn't deployed them. The with the combat patch might suck at Planning on the battle and guy with out the combat patch may have went to Battle Staff course and knows battle field planning but both can learn from each other. Being a 4 time combat Veteran I respect whoever tries to or tried to command or be in charge. Because we all start at the bottom and work our way up.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Lyons made Jun 22 at 2018 4:42 PM

2018-06-22T16:42:23-04:00

Let’s be honest! I’m not going to frown on them until we get deployed together and they are that guy. You know the one that thinks they know everything, and will take no advice from previously deployed NCOs

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 22 at 2018 5:28 PM

2018-06-22T17:28:37-04:00

No one gets frowned upon. We are not deploying at the rate we did just a couple of years ago. Company commanders (Captains) may not have deployed as LTs. The same is true of NCOs in today’s environment. I hope this is a trend that continues. Thank you for your service.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jun 26 at 2018 6:12 PM

2018-06-26T18:12:50-04:00

Looking at the numbers 'only 30% of the active Army (and less than 20% of the total Army including the Reserve and National Guard) deployed for DS/DS', so to those that find that "inadequate" it says a lot about their mindset.

Response by SFC Lee Ingle made Jun 26 at 2018 6:35 PM

2018-06-26T18:35:29-04:00

I will put it like this, and some may like it, some may not. I started life in the Army as an 11M and the 11B, got selected for recruiting duty, the Sept 11th happened, then we invaded Iraq, and my 3 year detail as a recruiter turned into 4. Then as I received orders to go to Riley they were deleted and I was converted to a 79R. So did I deploy to the war zones? Nope. Got stuck behind a desk running recruiting offices. I hated it and I still do. Even though I’m retired, that wasn’t my purpose, but the Army saw it a different way. The Army said “do this” and I did it. Now before recruiting, I served on the DMZ in Korea, stood there looking at those little bastards all day, spent time in central and South America, I did my job. I’ve always done what the Army and my country asked of me, without question. I never needed a combat patch or a CIB to prove my worth to my Soldiers. I always put my Soldiers first, always. And all of them knew it. It’s funny how the simple things slip minds, be a damn leader. Combat patches just say you’ve been somewhere. Taking care of your Soldiers, in a combat zone or not, you’ve done something, you’ve done a great service to them and your country. You take care of your Soldiers, they take care of you. Remember this folks, there wasn’t a lot of combat vets left when these wars started. So ALL of those NCO’s and junior officers didn’t have experience. But you know what got them through it? Their Compentence and Confidence, it was their leadership. Fortunately I was trained not only as an Infanrty Soldier by combat veterans when I was young, it was those same men who taught me how to lead. Your job Leaders, isn’t to point out those who did and didn’t, your job is to lead, train and win. Take care of your Soldiers, no matter what the rank is, no matter what’s on their sleeve. It’s funny how the basic fundamentals of leadership are lost due to ego and in my opinion, a bunch of bravdo bullshit. Your NCOER doesn’t have anything on it related to your opionion of others. Train, Teach, Mentor and Develop.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2018 6:52 PM

2018-06-26T18:52:35-04:00

If you would have asked me this five years ago, I would've said that you would be hard-pressed to find a senior NCO without one outside maybe TRADOC and USAREC. To be without a tour after over a decade of war with a significant percentage of the Army downrange was hard to do.
Now? Five years passing means a significant number of veterans have ETS'd or retired. Five years means there are quite a few that really have not had the opportunity to deploy for Inherent Resolve, OEF-A, or OEF-HOA.
My advice - find the veterans in your unit and LISTEN. They learned an awful lot of wisdom the hard way.
In our profession, you can never be ready enough, and you can never take for granted that the next conflict could be just around the corner.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 26 at 2018 7:55 PM

2018-06-26T19:55:02-04:00

Fair question- some of my kids have 5-7 deployments, but they are for the most part grunt's and in units that are the tip of the spear. Not everyone gets selected for deployment, nor do their units. It is the luck of the draw, not the person. Should we look down on you cause you haven't or just except that your time hasn't come yet.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jun 28 at 2018 2:16 PM

2018-06-28T14:16:37-04:00

Don't know if it's so much a case of frowned upon but think of this....with nearly enough time involved in the war on terror; that we are close to a point that a child born in 2001 is now eligible for split option training and could conceivably start service the same year as their parent is retiring it may make one take pause and ask the question of say a SFC or Major of "how'd you miss the show".
Depending on a persons MOS it would be unusual for someone in the active Army who is currently a SFC or Major or senior to have missed out on at least one deployment opportunity.

Response by PO2 Michael Galey made May 31 at 2019 1:05 AM

2019-05-31T01:05:03-04:00

Only in low tones and with no one to ID the individual that made the comment. Most of the times a good 1 SGT will square away those that haven't seen the elephant.

Response by 1SG Don Jones made Jan 14 at 2020 2:19 AM

2020-01-14T02:19:38-05:00

I think it might depend on TIS and branch/MOS

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 10 at 2020 1:13 PM

2020-12-10T13:13:44-05:00

E-6/O-3 and below? No.
E-7/O-4 and up? Yes.