Do officers have more difficulty transitioning to civilian life after 20 years?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 11:48:47 -0400

This question has several fronts and reasons.
Becoming a military officer is one of the most respected positions in the US.
The military officer earns his respect, and is respected with titles like, Sir and Captain....all that stops when you end your career.

Is it more difficult for an officer to transition to civilian life then the difficulty an enlisted person would experience? We live in a very disrespectful society, and I would imagine there are a dozen situations per year where you would want to choke someone by the way they are acting or being overtly disrespectful.
"Sir", the official greeting is a title of yesteryear...no one uses that any more...unless you grew up in the south. Manners and etiquette have all been brushed aside in an attempt to level the playing field, not make any one man better than another. Not all officers are arrogant, but again is transitioning to civilian world difficult because you spent 20,30,40 years being respected because of your title and position and decision-making power? Just curious...seems like it would. Obviously this is for officers that have over 20 or more years under their belt. I wonder how many retired officers are on RP?

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 31 at 2015 2:50 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:50:43 -0400

While I can not speak for the officers, I do not think it is any more difficult for an officer than for an NCO...maybe different, but not more difficult.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 4:57 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 04:57:14 -0400

LOL!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 2 at 2015 2:38 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 02:38:01 -0400

We're going to play Frisbee for PT. I will need an OPORD for that.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 2 at 2015 3:57 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:57:32 -0400

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but this consideration helped drive my thinking about transitioning at 8 years vs 20.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Apr 3 at 2015 10:44 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 10:44:45 -0400

Again, I am odd (compared to an AC Officer) in that transitioning for me will be "going to the same job I've been doing for years and stopping that Army stuff." So I will go off of my observations of the two cultures and absurd things I've heard retiring Officers saying over the last few months.

First, the baseline of respect is enormously different between the military and civilian worlds. Sir, Ma'am/Standing when the boss enters the room, 2 steps behind, all that stuff. It doesn't exist in the civilian world.
(I actually kind of have the same problem in reverse every time I come on active duty. I have a very informal work environment, and it would never occur to myself to jump to my feet because the Agency Director walked into my office.)

Second is ingrained positional authority. People deferring to your opinion based on your rank, being able to overrule other people's decisions based on your position. People taking ALL of your input seriously, even when everyone knows its out of your lane...
The civilian world definitely has role power - the boss is in charge and CAN fire you. But it has a completely different flavor than that of "respect the rank."

Third is place on the pecking order. This is a bit different from #2. In the military, your rank pretty much determines approximately where you are going to fall in the food chain, even when you change jobs. If you are a signal MAJ, you are not the guy swapping circuit boards or installing the software updates. If you a signal MAJ and you go to a Trans unit, you aren't turning wrenches. You are a MAJ doing a MAJ job....

This is so ingrained that a lot of military people don't get that that is exactly how it DOESN'T work in the rest of the world. A lot of Officers, once they hit CPT are used to NEVER BEING THE FNG. There is an unstated assumption among many that they will apply for a few positions that they have evaluated as being roughly equivalent to their rank (based mostly on the pay and position in the org chart), obviously get two or three offers and take the best one. In CAN work that way, especially if the Officer was actually performing at a high level and the job market favors the seeker at the time. But it doesn't always. When it doesn't, it can challenge that Officer's conception of themselves.

I don't think it's necessarily intentional, it is just part of the background of stuff that they know without thinking about - like the mechanics of driving a car. That's just how the world "works." I even see this in people who actually know better. I am thinking here of one recent retiree, whom I counseled (used in the civilian meaning here!!) before he retired. He basically said "yeah, I get that they'll have to start me in the mailroom, but they'll promote me based on my merits and I'll have a corner office in 6 months." Well, I saw him yesterday (not quite six months later), and turns out that's not how it works.

Fourth, they (I think this is especially true of ALL Active Component members, not just Officers - But I think because of the numbers, it is a more stark change for the Os) don't realize just how much all of the various military benefits and allowances add to their bottom line and quality of life. I did a fairly decent analysis a while back on another thread recently (don't remember exactly where), but the math worked out that in order for a MAJ with 15-18 YOS to make the same quality of life, they would need to earn a total compensation (pay + all benefits) of roughly $180K. Very few jobs do that. This is more a concern for the QSP/QMP guys, since if you retire you have your military pension & benefits to pick up a fair amount of that slack. Nonetheless, they often look just at base pay and expect that they should make what they did when leaving active duty. They are often unpleasantly surprised.

NOTE: None of this should be read as "woe for retiring Officers." If they've earned a retirement, they have a pretty decent pension to help cushion the transition. However, they tend to minimize the impact of the transition because they are no longer used to being the FNG, are used to a certain status, and are uprooted from a culture that they understood their place in. When they encounter reality, it can be quite jarring.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2015 12:02 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 12:02:46 -0400

My case may be the minority but I would say not. Since becoming an officer came with a degree that has helped me in my transition.

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 12:10 PM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:10:46 -0400

I cant talk on the officer side yet since Ive just begun my career after coming from the civilian work force. However I can touch on my dad who is a SgtMaj with 22 years in and still going strong. All I know is that he will have a hard transition, as he feels that he is not in synch with society, and I believe that is a problem everyone who spends 15+ years in will face, regardless of rank.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 12 at 2015 2:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:44:43 -0400

I have no problems. I am humble and ask for no more than the person standing by mean. What I did in the Army is a distant memory now.

Response by SGT Tim Pugel made Jun 7 at 2016 2:15 PM

SGT Tim Pugel — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:15:44 -0400

My personal theory on this is that I think while transitioning is very difficult no matter who you are, I think officers have a better success rate simply from being officers. when you look at a civilian resume, and the applicant lists that he was a junior enlisted, or perhaps an NCO, and you have another Applicant that puts down that he was an officer, I think the officer is more likely to get looked at, especially for better paying positions especially in areas of management.

Im a retired NCO and no one looks at the fact that I have 4 years of supervisory experience as an NCO. However should an Officer especially Captain or higher apply for the same management position, they will have a higher chance of getting it.

The only issue I see with officers trying to transition over is depending on the position they are applying for, they run a higher risk of being told that they are overqualified for the job. To sum it up, E6 and below struggle more in the civilian world, Senior NCOs are mildly more successful. Officers are by far the most successful although the also run a higher risk of rejection.