Do other Infantrymen have a problem communicating with women?

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:53:31 -0400

i sometimes have a problem dealing with women at a workplace or college setting, where I have to communicate with them. I also feel that I have something warped in my head that prevents me with seeing them on an equal basis. I love women and I am in general a decent person and a productive member of society, but I know that i have a problem. I want to know if other infantrymen face this?

I have no problems with authority but I also have somewhere along the line developed this and not sure from where it came. I now take the time to listen and really focus on being a kinder and gentler person when i speak ( especially to women), because it seems as if women are always misunderstanding me. Does this happen to anyone else???

I'd appreciate anyone willing to relate that they have had problems or seen people in a similar situation. this is a serious inquiry. After-all, as Infantrymen we don't work with females at all unless we run into a support or logistics element.

My hope is that people can get advice from our respondents so that they aren't placed in a situation that could become violent.

I guess I have to be clear... I'm not in the Army anymore... I appreciate the response but I no longer am serving...This relates to me in the civilian sector.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 1:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:59:06 -0400

Us grunts will always have a bit of a barrier talking with women. How we "normally" talk on a daily basis can't happen with women or even the normal civilian.

But also part of what we do is adapt and become more aware of how we're speaking to/at somone. Female or Male

Response by SSG Jose Alatorre made May 9 at 2016 2:16 PM

SSG Jose Alatorre — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:16:11 -0400

Okay this here is some advice ,which means it is a suggestion ,so that means you can take or leave it .Stay true to your self just make sure that you know your self with the values and principles that make you " YOU " ! Some old stuff treat women as you want to be treated with the same care and respect now I'm old and I got my own ways from more old folks that brought me up .If a senior or a superior yes treat with respect ,but if they are one of your own peer group well thats a whole new can of worms .You could have a whole mix of gals ,chicks, women ,femianazies ,bull dykes, women who have been damaged .So you always want to tread ground carefully ,so keep it simple treat them with once again with respect which you also deserve the same respect from them but a good rule of thumb for the military dont be alone with them ! The rest is yours .

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 2:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:28:09 -0400

Picture a guy talking to your mom or daughter and how you want him to behave...act that way.
Go to church weekly and practice talking to women there. Just be social, don't try to impress anyone. And learn now before you get in the civilian world post retirement/ETS. Talking to women is an everyday occurrence in the real world and thought our primary mission is "close with and kill the enemy...", that won't cut it post infantry life.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made May 9 at 2016 2:30 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:30:27 -0400

I think I know what you mean. I went from the Infantry to recruiting duty and I too had a difficult time communicating with females. I think that was because I had to try and flip a switch or something to take me out of what was normal for me and act and speak differently. We did not have any females in my station, but a few in the company. The biggest challenge was trying to recruit females, which initially I avoided even trying to do. But, over time that all passed and you learn to adapt and then it becomes more natural and not a forced, put on act.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 2:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:42:30 -0400

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres First, good on you for recognizing the issue! I respect the hell out of you for reaching out. Situational awareness and body language control takes real practice. While I am not infantry, I do empathize. I suggest finding a couple female friends you trust and start practicing. There is a cultural aspect to this I am sure, but anything learned can be unlearned. Just as men always want their pride protected, women always want to be respected. There will be women in infantry, and everywhere else. Listening and being self-aware are two HUGE first steps.

Response by SPC Greg K. made May 9 at 2016 3:02 PM

SPC Greg K. — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:02:23 -0400

Don't worry to much...women will be in the infantry with you soon enough! There already some really good advice here. You're not alone. Recognizing the problem is the biggest hurdle.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 3:15 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:15:38 -0400

I was discharged in June 1972 when there was a wide gulf between civilians and the military. I did not trust civilians and I am still cautious around them until I get to know them. First, women are your equal, and they must be treated with respect. You are not in the military, so adjust your language accordingly. Be polite and treat women as ladies, and you should be fine.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 9 at 2016 3:27 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:27:16 -0400

So, you think this is a problem for Infantrymen? All men suffer the same fate. Welcome to the club...

Response by SSG Steven Mangus made May 9 at 2016 3:30 PM

SSG Steven Mangus — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:30:25 -0400

Prior to my reclassified into aviation I was also 11B and when I went out or dealt with women either in a professional or casual setting, I learned I had to flip a switch somewhere in order to see women as equals. All it takes is a little practice and things will come natural..

Response by SGT Richard H. made May 9 at 2016 4:08 PM

SGT Richard H. — Mon, 09 May 2016 16:08:50 -0400

Start with your home training and work from there. Think back to how you spoke to your Mother, Grandmother, Aunt, school teachers, Infantry second lieutenants, etc. At some point all of those were most likely authority figures in your life. Talking to women in the work place is really no different. We all temper what we say to the ones I just mentioned....just learn to adjust that to fit your current situation, and you should be able to make it work.

Response by SPC James Harsh made May 9 at 2016 6:56 PM

SPC James Harsh — Mon, 09 May 2016 18:56:09 -0400

There weren't females anywhere near me when I was in and I was NG so anytime I showed up it was the same. During that time as a civilian, I worked doing landscape construction and then masonry, particularly stone masonry. I hadn't had a job with women involved. For about 7 years during this time I had a girlfriend and I had hoped it would have worked out. It was so long without being single, I wouldn't even flirt with cashiers. One example I remember still is watching Netflix shortly after coming home from overseas. We were sitting next to each other and she wanted to cuddle up next to me and I flipped out. It was along the lines of 'get out of my space'. I think I had been drinking too. It inevitably ended and that's another story. The person I was changed and I can't take it back although I think with time I'll learn from it. I noticed whenever I was confrontational women will say I'm yelling at them. There can be a disconnect while being Infantry and even more so amplified if having had certain exposures while in the military. My point is, looking back and I try to tell my brother who has a newborn is to work on it. People won't change overnight so take small steps and I bet it will make a big difference. I've been through the horrorshow and you don't want it. That's like wanting to go to jail on your bucket list cause you've never been. Despite trying to be a better person, I will always have an attitude towards women that in the community college they refer to as machoism. My thought is if I find another woman to build a long term relationship and work on the disconnect it may help when dealing with random strangers. More of a personal issue now.

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made May 9 at 2016 7:31 PM

PV2 Scott Goodpasture — Mon, 09 May 2016 19:31:22 -0400

Have you tried buying her a couple of drinks?

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made May 9 at 2016 7:36 PM

SGT Philip Roncari — Mon, 09 May 2016 19:36:54 -0400

I feel that I cannot answer this question as an Infantryman since I haven't been one since 1968,but I have been married for 45 years so the communication issue is one I can try to tackle the number one rule is you can never win in a confrontation with a woman,she is tougher than you,but if you treat her with respect and honesty you might survive as far as understanding women your on your own there pal

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 9 at 2016 8:04 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:04:30 -0400

Not a military thing either. I was this way before I joined up and after as well. I've always had a hard time with women. Figuring out what they meant, and over all conversation. Don't worry, it'll come with practice. As others have said, just be yourself and don't try to impress women. It will take care of it's self.

Response by CPL Ricky Vasquez made May 9 at 2016 9:39 PM

CPL Ricky Vasquez — Mon, 09 May 2016 21:39:13 -0400

don't ask don't tell...

Response by SPC Kenneth Koerperich made May 10 at 2016 6:58 AM

SPC Kenneth Koerperich — Tue, 10 May 2016 06:58:36 -0400

It's hard. Took me years after leaving the service/infantry to even approach women. Then it took me until I was 30 to even get married. Women are hard nuts. My wife expects me to change everything I ever was taught & learned in the service. She always nags, "Your to hard", "Watch your mouth", & many others. IMO, just be yourself. Either they will take you as you are, or leave. Sooner or later you will find that "special" one. Don't rush it.

Enjoy life!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 7:50 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 07:50:45 -0400

The only problem I have with communicating with females is that I'm not very politically correct and I can be very blunt. If it hurts your feeling because I don't sugar coat it, I'm like oh well deal with it. As far as not seeing women equally that's where I'm different, because I do see women as equals and if they want to do the same job/MOS as me then that's fine as long as they can pass the standards.

Response by 1LT Tom Welch made May 10 at 2016 8:48 AM

1LT Tom Welch — Tue, 10 May 2016 08:48:25 -0400

Hi Sgt Perdelia-Torres, first of all thanks for serving. Women are not in my opinion difficult to deal with. I have found that if you deal with them with the same respect as you would your own mother or a respected female family member you will be in pretty good shape, they may be smaller, physically weaker, but everybody knows that. Women are more sensitive than men and will take things said to them differently than men. So, I have found that respecting a woman for simply being a woman, recognizing that women see things differently than men, and accepting that difference as real and not a sign of weakness or inferiority helps tremendously. They will in turn appreciate it as well, they may never tell you but you may find them easier to approach and communicate with. I always address a woman I don't know or work with as ma'am. Regardless of rank. not to disrespect but to show a female that she is respected for who she is. I apply this same tactic in my business everyday, it has helped me be a success. Also, i recommend reading the Bible as it pertains to men and women. God knew what he was doing, I guess the final thought would be to apply the 'Golden Rule' at all times, regardless of who you deal with. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You know how it makes you feel, the same thing applies to women but at a much higher level of sensitivity.

Tom Welch

Response by MAJ Kevin Wood made May 10 at 2016 9:04 AM

MAJ Kevin Wood — Tue, 10 May 2016 09:04:19 -0400

Short Answer - No, I do not have a difficult time dealing with professional/adult women at work.
One benefit to being an infantryman (IMHO) is the fact that given the nature of the MOS, the only thing that matters is the capabilities of the person next to you. In the Infantry that boils down to - do I trust them on my flank? If yes, I do not care about their race or religion. If no, again, I do not care, I do not want them there.
Same at work. If the individual working with me is professional and competent at their job, their race, religion or gender do not matter. . . And they know my 'language' as a former infantryman might be less than genteel at times (and sometimes their language shocks me).

Response by 1stLt John Nicholas McIntosh made May 10 at 2016 9:18 AM

1stLt John Nicholas McIntosh — Tue, 10 May 2016 09:18:17 -0400

I am an old Marine Grunt and to me your problem is your efforts to be kind may be perceived as condescending. Just be yourself.

Response by SFC Todd Strong made May 10 at 2016 9:36 AM

SFC Todd Strong — Tue, 10 May 2016 09:36:09 -0400

I'm going to confuse everyone so here goes. I'm married to a wonderful woman and I have three awesome daughters. They mean everything to me and I put them first. I've held four MOS's. My first was ADA and we had women in admin and supply. The admin girls never did their job me was more worried about Their nails, makeup and hair ( all out of regs). No one was allowed to correct them. This really pissed me off and gave me a bad attitude about female soldiers. Then I went to the MP's and worked with many great female soldiers who worried about doing their job right and following the regs. I was very honored to have served with them. But then I was infantry. A body wrecking soul crushing MOS. I personally believe it's an error to out women in the infantry because the of physical and mental demands. It doesn't mean they should be treated any different, just the same as a male infantryman. By doing so, they'll realize the mistake they made becoming Infantry. But what do I care. I cover up every night with my DD-214 blanket. lol. Just treat women with dignity and respect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 9:38 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 09:38:06 -0400

This is a pretty loaded question, but in tge Infantry we were taught not to view anyone outside of the Infantry as equals so gender wasn't the problem. I used to be bothered more by the lack of discipline than the gender. Work ethic phased me more than someone's anatomy. My plt was attached to an Artillery Battery and it had women. They would comment about us being too up tight and never joking around. We learned a different sort of discipline which carries over to how we talked around women or most of us around children. For me it was always a switch that flipped on and off. Into the college setting it still became a matter of a person's experience, attitude and discipline. So no, I don't believe that the Army caused me to look down on women. I believe the Army required me to expect more of people.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made May 10 at 2016 9:57 AM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Tue, 10 May 2016 09:57:00 -0400

Man having a problem understanding women..... Noooo, it must be the woman's problem, right? You might be in luck. I am about to explain everything I know about and understanding whats in a woman's head... Number 1, .......... Ok that concludes todays lessons on this subject and you now know everything I know about a woman's mind.

Seriously though, not knowing exactly what has happened in your particular situation, any of us can only discuss this in vague generalities. Men are simple, women are a bit more complicated. To women, they are simple and men are complicated. Do you see a pattern here? Let me be a little more clear and serious. Men and women are different. Not better not worse just different. Try to see and negotiate those differences and don't be afraid of it. That is the number one problem I hear in your question. You recognize they are different and it scares you thus you react in a manor not appropriate for the given situation. Just relax and take a deep breathe and you will see that boys and girls can get along and work nice together. Just remember to capitalize on the differences and don't be afraid of it. Good luck.

Response by PFC Stephen Eric Serati made May 10 at 2016 9:59 AM

PFC Stephen Eric Serati — Tue, 10 May 2016 09:59:40 -0400

I had this problem when I was in and for along time after even though I was brought up by a woman in single parent home.For me it was lack of the father figure before joining but got worse when I joined.In combat MOS of the past.I believe it stems from the training,and cadences.Women have always been treated as the weaker sex and there for need protection.So when a female steps forward in a leadership role it goes against the grain it went against my thought path it took along time in the civilian world to acclimate to it.I love women to I have a Daughter and a Grandaughter.I think once women are in all branches some of these issues can be solved when men see women holding their own in combat roles.The cadences will need to change to be more accepting of women in these roles in my humble opinion.

Response by LTC Raymond Millen made May 10 at 2016 10:03 AM

LTC Raymond Millen — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:03:58 -0400

Men and women process information differently. Men focus on solving problems and then moving on; women focus on airing problems for reconciliation. When sharing a problem with men, women do not want a solution, they just want you to acknowledge that a problem exists.

Response by SGT James Puff made May 10 at 2016 10:04 AM

SGT James Puff — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:04:38 -0400

If they join the infantry they most likely have a type a personality. Talk to them how you talk to the other team members because they are now a part of your team or squad

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 10:25 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:25:44 -0400

I have this issue with none infantry types in general lol

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made May 10 at 2016 10:29 AM

SFC Olivero Rodriguez — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:29:16 -0400

If your talking about your wife, well all men will have problems communicating, they have the last word you like it or not, some may say, they kick the shit out of them first, well that is wrong, you will loose on all counts, you will not understand your own mom and sisters if you try. I never have problems with them, I let them know that what ever the outcome was, they where part at fault.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made May 10 at 2016 10:37 AM

SFC Olivero Rodriguez — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:37:09 -0400

but without the joke, I had a couple of females working with me, at the Ft. Ord Air Assault School, Michell and Scipio, they work hard, did a magnificent job, respected me and the other NCO's, did not complain... well they made the school better. When we went on our separated ways, I recommended them for promotion and gave them MSM for their jobs. The other NCO's that work with me, love them. We where all infantry soldiers. If you are a leader instead of a manager. You will be better when communicating with them.

Response by SrA Leah Murchie made May 10 at 2016 10:49 AM

SrA Leah Murchie — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:49:49 -0400

The fact that you aware of it in your self and that you stay mindful of it in your dealings with woman on a professional and or personal level is half the battle. We all get influenced and pick things up from others as we grow up. New path ways have to be made in your brain. So if you have a female you are close to that you can talk about this with and you notice certain areas that you feel a certain way about you can work on those particular areas. We pick up subconsciously from people who were very influential in our upbringing. If you had a female talk down to you your whole life it could prevoke anger for females who are your boss or even your wife as you need that feeling of control and respect. Also observing how a males and females treat each other that you were raised around. I have tough skin so if you want to talk more about this I am open I don't get offended easy at all. Some times it's just nice to talk to some one open and blunt to work through it. It's like having a sounding board. I don't see others as above or below me. I try to respect every one or at least respect the position they are in even if they don't act worthy of there position. I hope this was of some help.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made May 10 at 2016 11:01 AM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:01:16 -0400

There is no problem for you. Your subconscious picks up on the female structure. Their neck and shoulders look softer than yours. Their hips and chest can be attractI've causing you to lose focus. Plus, somewhere in your brain you know they look better in a G-string than you. It is only natural for men to see women differently.
I deal with women all the time. Just don't get them upset. It will cost you in the civilian puke world. I bet in the military, if you smile at one it might be considered sexual harassment.
Thank you for your service.

Response by LCpl Paul Messer made May 10 at 2016 11:17 AM

LCpl Paul Messer — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:17:18 -0400

I was a the infantry in the Marines and I can relate to what you are saying. For me it got easier as the years went by to understand and accept.

Response by SPC Chris Stith made May 10 at 2016 11:26 AM

SPC Chris Stith — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:26:49 -0400

I have a problem communicating with everyone. Not just females. It's hard for me to keep a job, have close friends, fit in with family, pretty much anything that requires me to worry about others peoples feelings...

Response by SGT William Howell made May 10 at 2016 11:54 AM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:54:04 -0400

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres Dude, not infantry, but I understand. Women are hard to talk to. I am going to share a secret with you. Hand Arm Signals. Clear, concise, never a question of what you mean. Just like when door kicking in Iraq. You are welcome!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 12:14 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 12:14:13 -0400

No. All men have this same issue. Trust me, the older you get, the less you will care about what comes out of your mouth. That is how you will know who is the right one. If she stays after you throw out 60 F-Bombs in a 5 sentence paragraph, she is perfect. However, be careful. Once she has your first child she will be able to re engage her filter and get PISSED at you when you do not.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made May 10 at 2016 12:30 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 10 May 2016 12:30:26 -0400

Jose please call me Pedro, I advice that you first look back at your childhood experiences in your family to see how your father treated your mother and your brothers related to sisters, your issue is deep seated and unless you see it origins you will continue to battle your inner demon. A Crazy solution is to sing the song from FROZEN "Let it Go" until you do let it go. And since you mentioned Infantryman women in combat are a weapon system that should be employed properly and respected for what they bring to the fight; M-4 vs M-16 both kill but only one can bash a head open.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 12:46 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 12:46:15 -0400

Good luck understanding women. Men and women are not equal, that's why we communicate different. Don't stress over this.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 1:48 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 13:48:44 -0400

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres,
My husband is combat arms (tanker) and he did not work with women either. What your experiencing is normal. If anyone works in a group that excludes another group, then usually we use stereotypes to make sense of the excluded group. Using "Contact Theory" will help you see the individualism of a person from the excluded group. Ask yourself "what is it that I am having trouble dealing with?" with women in your daily life. Make an effort to engage with some women you see regularly at school/work. Just like your brothers in arms there will be some you like and some you do not. See if you College has a Veterans Group, and engage with some women there. It might be easier to engage with someone that understands the Military.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 1:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 13:48:46 -0400

I was an enlisted Marine Rifleman, who is now an Army ADA Officer (mixed-gender units for a long time)...to quickly answer your question, there is nothing specific to communications with women that are more challenging than communicating with men. Some people are hard to communicate, and that group is very diverse.

As far as a strategy to adapt, I spent 18 months in college finishing my degree before commissioning, and that time helped me to realize many of the challenges I faced were perceptions that I carried. Now 12 years past commissioning, married (to a woman) with two daughters, I think the key to communicating with women is to communicate with women.

Response by SSG Joe Ann Bess made May 10 at 2016 1:54 PM

SSG Joe Ann Bess — Tue, 10 May 2016 13:54:10 -0400

I guess you come from a family of all women. I'm just saying. To be a competent leader you must first learn communication skills across the board. This is 2016!!!!

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made May 10 at 2016 2:02 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 10 May 2016 14:02:28 -0400

SGT, coming from an all male unit to mixed units was culture shock enough so no matter what you do you have to have some lag time in responding to Females Soldiers so you can look at the added dangers of "PERCEPTION IS REALITY" . Once you get used to it you have to maintain your watch on what and how you say things. Granted their are female Soldiers out there that just want to do their job and want to be treated exactly like males but that is a danger onto itself. In the end you tend to be more aware of how you interact than you used to around a male audience. For me it was a long hard road and I still make mistakes, just ask my current wife :)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 14:27:15 -0400

I feel this might be a transition issue. Military to civilian can be drastic change especially when personalities are involved. But if you are having trouble with certain individuals approach the problem head on and address the issue before it gets out of hand. With your issue with the lady who cuts you off... Pull her aside and let her know that you don't appreciate how she cuts you off. If there is a deep seated issue she has with you ask her if there is one.

Just remember though that non veterans don't understand the military experience and therefore don't understand the structure and discipline that has been instilled into you. So just keep a professional mindset and be considerate of others and you should do fine.

Response by SGT Mathew Golding made May 10 at 2016 2:50 PM

SGT Mathew Golding — Tue, 10 May 2016 14:50:54 -0400

I don't your issue has anything to do with having been in the Infantry. I was an infantryman as well and have never had this issue. You've recognized and admitted that you have an issue here, which is half the battle. I would suggest you look back at your upbringing and environment in which you were brought up if you want to get to the root of the issue at hand.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 3:20 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 15:20:37 -0400

Mr. Perdelia-Torres,
You may not be able to consciously do this until you have a few more years under your belt, but stop seeing women as potential dates/partners or whatever. When your relationship with females reaches a level that you would have with a male counterpart, no "special social" objectives, you will find that relationships become easier. As you would with any human, be respectful and honest. Apologize if you unintentionally offend anyone. Don't feel you have to stand on some principle that you are always right!. Practicing a certain level of humility and respect will go a long way toward easing your bias regarding women.

Response by Sgt Christopher Whelchel made May 10 at 2016 3:29 PM

Sgt Christopher Whelchel — Tue, 10 May 2016 15:29:08 -0400

As infantry, we never (or very rarely) worked with women during our service time. We also have warped personalities because we never have had to worry about what we say to each other. I know the Marines I served with and I always took our jokes a little too far. It was okay because there was no worry of offending each other.

Anyone whom has served in the infantry knows that we spend a lot of downtime getting at each other. It's a good way to kill time when you work a stressful and demanding job; that also happens to offer a great deal of time to kill. I have to imagine that civilians looking in on the way my fellow Marines and I acted around each other would wonder how the U.S. had the greatest fighting force in the world.

As I transitioned into the civilian workforce after 3 years spent in the Middle East in combat zones, I found it especially difficult to work around women. I was constantly saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. My intent was not to be disrespectful or insensitive toward my female coworkers, but it was what I had become accustomed to during my service time. I learned very quickly that I had to change my work personality to suit my civilian life.

As time went by, I learned who I could joke with and at what level I could take my jackassery with my fellow, civilian coworkers. This included men at times too.

My suggestion to you is to go to your local community college and sign up for some classes centered around women's studies. Also, talk to your coworkers and supervisors. Get a dialogue going with them so you can get to know them and what is acceptable conversation. Finally, seek mental health treatment at your local VA for this problem. It may be something that can be helped with therapy.

After all of that, if you still cannot let that part of you go during you civilian career, then I suggest you reenlist in the infantry.

Response by Maj Ken Brown made May 10 at 2016 3:47 PM

Maj Ken Brown — Tue, 10 May 2016 15:47:53 -0400

Sometimes women have difficulty with ad lib leadership decisions. That is to say that as good as women are at following set procedures: better than most men, in fact, they tend to be woefully ill-prepared to ad lib where there is no clear-cut protocol. Can someone tell me how many chess grand masters are women? This is an example.

My brother-in-law claims that a women can pull a trigger as well as a man. Is that all there is to the infantry, or are there some intangibles at play? Think about it: a squad leader has no time to give the whole squad orders in a fluid situation. Most infantrymen will tend to adjust to the situation at hand and not "obey their last order". The best combat plan rarely survives first contact. This has little to do with being kinder or gentler. It has to do with combat which is neither.

Response by MAJ Bill Darling made May 10 at 2016 4:28 PM

MAJ Bill Darling — Tue, 10 May 2016 16:28:30 -0400

It took me a while to go from the exclusively male infantry to (involuntarily) to the female majority personnel world. Whereas brutal honesty, ridicule of weakness, profanity, and uber competitiveness were the norms of the infantry world, I found they were not only frowned upon but considered abusive or harassment in some circles. I had a female boss at one point whom I could not help but call "sir" all too frequently.

Your generation and mine grew up, personally and professionally, with very mixed signals as it pertains to women. They should be treated as everyone else but don't treat them like men. Be polite and respectful but they're not delicate. Don't offend them but don't exclude them from the group. They want equality but not true equality. We're still in the transition from traditional roles to complete equality roles.

The ultra macho infantry world can skew your perception of women, so let the civility of the mixed-sex work/school place take its effect. Some of it is eye-rolling but most of it is common sensical and just a bit more civilized.

Response by Cpl Ryan Sidun made May 10 at 2016 4:30 PM

Cpl Ryan Sidun — Tue, 10 May 2016 16:30:02 -0400

That's a great question. I was a former Counter Terrorism/Infantry Marine and when I got out of service and went to college boy did my eyes open. Civilians in general were lazy to me and also winey about their current state of affairs. From my point of view women had something to prove out in the civilian sector that they were just as good as men. Men are better at being men and women are better at being women. There is a huge difference between the sexes that make us different and unique but also special in our different abilities and attributes that we can offer Society. I know I will get a lot of heat about this but so be it. Do women belong in combat? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Do Men need sex change operation because they feel like they should be a woman and give BIRTH!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! With women you have to be more gentle with dealing with their problems because they think and operate with their emotions. https://understandingrelationships.com/women-are-not-logical/5025. There are millions of sites that support this finding. We are different.While working at college I noticed the women gravitation towards me asking what to do next because their boss wasn't around. The best advise I have to say to you is keep cool during all situations and be understating but not a doormat! I hope this helps and if there is any any questions please get a hold of me! Your Brother in Arms!
Ryan Dale Sidun

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Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made May 10 at 2016 6:35 PM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Tue, 10 May 2016 18:35:12 -0400

Don't stress. I've been out about a year and still don't know how to talk to civilian females..... and I am female.

Response by Cpl Robert Crockett made May 10 at 2016 7:19 PM

Cpl Robert Crockett — Tue, 10 May 2016 19:19:50 -0400

If it's work, don't mix work and personal. For every man with a good experience, there are many others that have tales of woe. Men are punished first and punished with no evidence. Don't be one of them!

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made May 10 at 2016 8:19 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Tue, 10 May 2016 20:19:32 -0400

I think most men in Combat Arms units suffer this problem. For one thing, depending how long you have been in, and those that are out you didn't see women in Combat units period. Sure they were in MP and Engineer units that could more or less be considered Combat Infantry by another name, but everyone of us told ourselves they would be near the rear with the gear. Then add on top that Society has taught us that women are weak and need protection. Then their is the Locker Room humor that still got kicked around down at Company and Platoon levels even when women were serving at Brigade HQ and Battalion HQ. The more filter down, there will be learning curve for both sides. I am sure there will be great deal more incidents than what makes it to the public view.

Then there is the entire thing where since the first white settlers landed to the "New World" trying to be prudes. Some Religious people have no problem with their daughter wearing "Daisy Dukes" or dental floss and band-aids. Yet, let a mother bare her breast to feed her child. Or this non-sense about the use of separate public restrooms. Do all homes come with two bathroom, for one for men, and the other for women. And most restrooms with exception of men's room urinals, you are separated, door that usually locks. It not only man thing about doing creepy things, and they don't always pick on little girls. They also attack little boys, as do some women who prey on boys. As for the some of the recent accounts of men having sex restrooms, well you be able to find that people having restroom by chance almost anywhere you go. We need to drag ourselves out of the 1600's and realize that the calendar does say 2016....

Response by CPL Patrick Collins made May 11 at 2016 12:05 AM

CPL Patrick Collins — Wed, 11 May 2016 00:05:26 -0400

Infantry and the rest of the world do not see eye to eye. That part of your life will always be with you but it is time to temper you thoughts. We are public citizens now and we need to learn their ways. Remember less than 1% of Americans were Infantry. We are like legionaires to them.

Response by LCpl Michael Harrell made May 11 at 2016 12:07 AM

LCpl Michael Harrell — Wed, 11 May 2016 00:07:19 -0400

Sgt it is difficult to speak to woman when we don't interact in a regular basis. Some woman need a delicate touch, as they are not use to direct lines of communication, then there are the women who like a direct and blunt communication aspect. It is tough to know which is wihich.... That being said I use this rule of thumb, speak to a woman as you would your grandmother ( with diligent respect and a caring tone) but you can also be honest with women and say I I am having trouble communicating with you and cite your reasons, then ask them directly how they like to be spoken to and go from there. It is a lengthy way to go about it but at least you will try to improve

Response by SPC Christopher Jackson made May 11 at 2016 2:42 AM

SPC Christopher Jackson — Wed, 11 May 2016 02:42:48 -0400

you've been dismantled and rebuilt in Basic and AIT. So we don't think like our civilian counterparts. This also includes women. So we DO have issues with communication if its not job related.

Response by Col Mark Goodman made May 11 at 2016 6:27 AM

Col Mark Goodman — Wed, 11 May 2016 06:27:02 -0400

Response by 1LT Tom Wilson made May 11 at 2016 7:30 AM

1LT Tom Wilson — Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:54 -0400

Well, you aren't alone. Women have trouble communicating with women. However, it is worth paying attention to how women communicate with each other because it is often very elegant, especially in task-oriented milieu.

Don't try and fake it. Be authentic in your communication. A very useful communication strategy is Parent Effectiveness Techniques, which is a process of formal feedback which requires you to monitor and report upon the feelings generated by any given transaction in you. those feelings being: Mad, Sad, Glad and Scared. Getting in touch with your own mental ecology in this manner will ground you in your own experience and provide a line of departure, so to speak, for exploring your own resources and attitudes constructively and systematically, there are a number of books on PET.

In this regards, it is vital to remember that the meaning of your communication is the response you get. This is a critical component of effective communication. When you state that there is "something warped in my head that prevents me from seeing them on an equal basis", you are just kidding yourself if you believe this attitude isn't being communicated in some way and it probably results in condescension that pisses of anyone subject to it. Nothing will get you written off faster than talking down to the little ladies. You might be totally justified in your attitude in certain tasks, but I would sure advise you to belay that in your personal relationships.

Rather than concentrating on being a kinder and gentler person when you speak, concentrate on listening, which requires a whole lot less effort. You don't have to have all the answers: in fact, women will often seem to seek out solutions to problems when what they are actually doing is making themselves vulnerable as tactic to achieve parity. When you actually offer a solution, you close the door. What they want you to do is to explore the dimensions of the issue as a shared experience and not as an expert dispensing advice. Sherlock Holmes is not the role model you should emulate.

Having said all that, women are as much a mystery to me as they are to you. Deborah Tannen, a Georgetown linguistics professor, has a number of excellent books on the subject, including "You don't understand me". Read it, carry it around conspicuously at work and see what women have to say about it.

Response by PV2 Violet Case made May 11 at 2016 7:47 AM

PV2 Violet Case — Wed, 11 May 2016 07:47:16 -0400

As a woman who has had sexual advances made upon, I would like to comment on this. A woman wants to be respected as having a mind, feelings, and not thought of as sexual toys. We have our strengths to. I also was trained with an m16, m60, grenades and hand to hand combat and self defense. I too have been trained to kill if ever in a war. And I would do so and not think twice. So the sooner a person can respect women as having talent, intelligence, and abilities other then sexual objects the sooner respect will be given to the man in return. I have high respect for a man that can treat me with respect.

Response by SPC Benjamin Hartog made May 11 at 2016 8:29 AM

SPC Benjamin Hartog — Wed, 11 May 2016 08:29:31 -0400

Sgt.,

As an infantryman you have a heralded tradition to uphold. What you have inherited is awesome! It was infantrymen who assualted Omaha Beach, Sicily, Tarawa, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Saipan and Okinawa and fought and defeated the Wehrmacht at the Battle of the Bulge and Casino; the Pusan Perimeter, Pork Chop Hill, Inchon, the Tet Offensive and Falluja. Women did not participate in these battles and hopefully will never have to fight in future campaigns with the same intensity and sagavery. Be proud of this history and affirm that you embody the values and principles of American infantryMEN. Keep these facts in mind when you are interacting with females who are aspiring to become InfantryMEN and make them aware of the bloody heritage of that branch of the American military. Ask them if they possess the grit and stamina to face the same adversity that the soldiers and Marines who bled and fought in America's wars in the 19th, 20th and 21st Centuries. If so, embrace them. If not, then walk away and "don't sow your pearls before the swine".

Response by SFC Robert Bower made May 11 at 2016 9:45 AM

SFC Robert Bower — Wed, 11 May 2016 09:45:05 -0400

Yes, I do.. I've been in 26 years and can't get use to it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2016 10:28 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 May 2016 10:28:48 -0400

Best thing is to let them talk about themselves and learn to be an active listener. The biggest problem we have as males is that we tend to think women want us to fix their problem, when all they want us to do is listen.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 11 at 2016 10:53 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 11 May 2016 10:53:22 -0400

I think it is a matter of experience and exposure. Whle in the Army you lived in an all-male environment. If you're not used to being around women professionaly, is it a wonder you have issues communicating with them....?

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made May 11 at 2016 10:54 AM

CPT Dennis Stevenson — Wed, 11 May 2016 10:54:01 -0400

On the one hand, this is an eternal problem: the Muses made sure it's difficult.

On the other hand, let me point out something you already know: we grunts have had experiences that most civilians cannot even fathom. As a retired professor, I know that it's difficult for service people to socialize because the student body is clueless and generally quite immature. First, then, I'd say seek out your peers --- namely, vets and active duty people and find out what they're doing. Second, join organizations that you have a real interest in.

Now, another possible issue is you might be a bit of an introvert. When I came back from Viet Nam, I got worse (I was always socially backward). Nobody within arms reach was my motto. I still can't chit-chat and I'm a terrible party guest. But there's more and more information online for introverts. Even if you're not an introvert, the ideas may help you. BTW, I'm happily married for 46 years --- you'll find folks to be with.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made May 11 at 2016 10:54 AM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Wed, 11 May 2016 10:54:10 -0400

Is it cultural? Maybe you have contempt for females in authority (could come from a negative experience while in the army) or on equal footing? I'm sure that you are not the only one but kudos for asking for input!

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made May 11 at 2016 10:55 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 11 May 2016 10:55:19 -0400

Certainly can't speak for the infantry, or the Army in general, but I never had any difficulty communicating with women. No consideration for the gender, just treated them all the same.

Response by Sgt Timothy Apel made May 11 at 2016 11:06 AM

Sgt Timothy Apel — Wed, 11 May 2016 11:06:48 -0400

OK, as former enlisted infantryman, and now Master's educated professional, I'll be blunt. You're kind of an asshole. You treat all of your colleagues equally. Judge them on their character, how they treat you and how well they do their jobs. Don't think for a second you can treat anyone like you did your subordinates or even your buddies in the Army. You will get fired in a second. Good luck, but you really need an attitude shift.

Response by SSG Dennis Grossmann made May 11 at 2016 12:36 PM

SSG Dennis Grossmann — Wed, 11 May 2016 12:36:26 -0400

Most men have problems with talking to women. It's called being in that awkward age of 15 to 99. My only advice is to learn the signs of interest and flirting. Learn to be an effective listener. Talk about her... 9 times out of 10 She could give 2 sticks about "guy things" or unless she is or was in the military, she will get bored. Find a lady who likes to do or is willing to try infantry stuff. Don't take rejection as failure, for every 20 no's ther will be a few yes's. I wish you the best and I hope I helped.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2016 2:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 May 2016 14:29:11 -0400

Talk to PEOPLE with respect period. When you stop seeing that "women" as just that, you'll be more at ease. I'm at a unit with all males, infrantry, Traddoc and just today I spoke to a 1SG about this very topic. I said you shouldn't have to curve your behavior and all we want or at least I want is to be made a part of the team and not some outcast. I mean how do you all talk to your mom's? Sisters? Aunts? Grandmother's, Wives, Daughters? Yes sadly SOME women pull the "female" card but I've served with some amazing STRONG, women who will have your back. Treat us and require your peers to treat us the way youd want to be treated or a loved one treated. We are human and should be treated as such with dignity and respect as you would treat your fellow brother in arms. I appreciate you at least admitting you struggle with that.

Response by Chris Grimm made May 12 at 2016 11:30 AM

Chris Grimm — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:30:07 -0400

It seems like this is a natural thing to have happened. You were in the infantry which is an environment where you're surrounded by some extremely rough-and-tumble, hard ass guys - you simply got used to talking with them, and not women.

Once you spend more time around civilians/women, you'll gradually start to adjust. No worries!

Response by SPC Geoffrey Chatten made May 12 at 2016 12:29 PM

SPC Geoffrey Chatten — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:29:55 -0400

Ignore them unless required interactions. I had somewhat the same issue as I transitioned from regular army infantry to a pog reserve unit. It was hard for sure.

Unfortunately some women (and men) just wanna watch the world burn. Especially in a collegiate setting. This is where ignoring them was helpful.

Oh, I have a daughter now. That has helped me mature with my outside interactions quite a bit.

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made May 12 at 2016 2:45 PM

CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:45:19 -0400

I have a "trick" that I have used ever since I was commissioned as an infantry officer in Benning in 1967. I don't know where I got the idea but I make it a point to A) read one women's magazine a month so I can talk to them about things in which they may be interested and B) I don't talk to them about my military service unless they ask - and they do ask because someone else will tell them, "You know he's an ex Green Beret who volunteered three times for Vietnam." This makes you come across as the silent hero, the non-braggart type who is not going to be telling them lies to impress them. They find the contrast "irresistible" - the quite "killer" who can relate to their issues. (It also helps if you are handsome, tall, well built and erudite.)

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 4:32 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 16:32:32 -0400

I think it's men in general not just the infantry.

Response by SSG Joseph Henderson made May 12 at 2016 6:52 PM

SSG Joseph Henderson — Thu, 12 May 2016 18:52:42 -0400

Speak to them how you would want people to talk to the special women in your life.

Response by SPC(P) Brian Brown made May 13 at 2016 12:05 PM

SPC(P) Brian Brown — Fri, 13 May 2016 12:05:46 -0400

I guess my first question is did you ever have a problem talking to women or seeing them as equal when you were in school? Where the girls weaker or unable to do what you could do? Do you have a problem talking with non-military people in general or seeing them as equal? As an ex-infantryman I still see the typical civilian and some non-infantry service members as less than infantry. This does not mean they are less or not equal, just that they have not been through the sludge of years sleeping under a poncho liner in the rain and show.
An example - A few years ago, when I was single, I found a lady's profile on a dating site. She posted that she would never go camping because she was a cook in the military and they would have to go to the "field" and it was miserable.
Most cooks I knew in the military went to the field about 1-2 times a year. They rolled out in trucks, setup GP-Medium tents with heaters and cots, ate warm breakfast and dinner. It's hard for me to see that a miserable from an infantry perspective.
I would start by acknowledging to yourself that many of the experiences you have had are way different than most people and those experiences shape who you are. Understanding that other people don't "get it" is alright and that in the job and education areas they are just as adept as you are. Just like in your unit in service, each member needs to pull their own weight. If they didn't in service, you lost respect for them. The same perspective should be in the job arena as well. If they do their job and do it well, respect that and expect them to do their job until proven otherwise.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 6:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 06:49:00 -0400

I feel like I am always overly worried about offending them. Since high school, the vast majority of my experience with women is with my wife. Talking with women on a platonic basis feels awkward.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 3:15 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:15:36 -0400

I understand exactly how you feel as an infantryman myself (once a grunt always a grunt) and my advice is to just talk to them often ask them if you offend them with your language and adjust fire from there the more you do this the easier it will become to switch between an infantry convo and a civilian one (noone converses like the infantry)(civilians and pogs are alike)

Response by LCpl James Robertson made May 14 at 2016 8:09 PM

LCpl James Robertson — Sat, 14 May 2016 20:09:59 -0400

During the Vietnam War I returned to the civilian world unprepared, I were just discharge after a corporal ask me at Headquarters did I want to re-enlist in the USMC, I ask the corporal could I get the MOS that I came in the Marine Corps for Military Police, he said I cannot guarantee you anything and that you maybe placed back in Kilo 3/8 a grunt unit, I were so mess up at that time for being a trained killer, I had been highly trained in the art of killing from many countries, to the effect of not knowing how to related to women, it seem like I were a born killer for the USMC. After I got out there were no one to help me to convert back to the civilian world, for years I suffered if I heard gunshots, my reaction were to hit the deck, take cover and respond back. I later were a police officer, and because of my Marine Corps training at times I could overreact. But I did meet a nice lady and married her, and told her about what I were going through.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 6:48 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 18:48:20 -0400

Just wait, when your infantry squad leader is a woman grunt - you can turn to her

Response by SFC Ethan Graves made May 18 at 2016 7:40 AM

SFC Ethan Graves — Wed, 18 May 2016 07:40:09 -0400

Brother, you are just like any other man. GOD has a funny sense of humor sometimes. Procreation of our species relies on the other gender. Understanding is where the funny part comes in sometimes. It will take time in the civilian sector to work with females. When I was in, you avoided them like the plague as they could be career enders and there were none in the infantry. I think you are taking the right steps to listen and understand. You are on the right track. Charlie Mike.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 7:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 19:53:47 -0400

Man, I get it. Talking with women can be a really daunting task, particularly after spending years upon years around nothing but crass, rude, unfiltered men. We in the Infantry border on being completely uncivilized most of the time. The jokes, the conversations we have, the general mindset of "not only are we men, we are the baddest MFs to cross the planet because we get eyeball to eyeball with the Man, and kill him." It is really a difficult principle to talk to women after that because most of them simply do not understand us, or are offended by our....well, our way of life.

Don't worry brother, you are not alone. While I am still in the Army, I am on a POG base, surrounded by women all day, every day. It is a daily struggle to reign in my tongue. And when I don't, even the uniformed women (who should be used to that sort of thing by now), get butt-hurt about it. We are indoctrinated into a mindset that we do (or did) things that no woman can, or should, do. And it really does pose us a problem.

But, with time, practice, and no shortage of hurt feelings along the way, you will grow accustomed and readjust to the private sector, and you will regain the ability to talk to our female counterparts. If you ever need any thing brother, let me know. I'm always here to help. #IGY6

Response by SP5 Bryan Patenge made May 29 at 2016 4:28 PM

SP5 Bryan Patenge — Sun, 29 May 2016 16:28:24 -0400

Yes, yes they do.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jun 19 at 2016 6:10 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 18:10:01 -0400

Very good topic. As an Infantry Officer, I knew I could almost be assigned to any job...that either no one wanted or was made to look like free beer for a month. While I was a Boot Camp CO at Fort Dix...long, long time age. I saw a female soldier in the day room, which was off limits. I had a female Captain walking behind me (a divine intervention). As soon as the female troop saw me, she began yelling "rape".... Her second or third scream, the female Captain walked in. Saved me rear end, or this may be posted from Leavenworth...as the female troops could use this as a get out of jail free card (early 80's). She was already being chaptered out for unsuitability ...mentally unstable.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jun 19 at 2016 7:19 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 19:19:21 -0400

I disobeyed an "Illegal" order, and was the second CO to be relieved for this illegal order. I won, in a Federal Court, which only upgraded my OER from early promote to (top level recommended to be an Infantry Battalion Commander) to satisfactory. (Out at 15 years and 9 mos), my VA rating upped to 100%, which meant I could no longer work for the Federal Agency I was employed by (which gave me a 53% retirement) and I just got my 4th Social Security Check this year. ****Please note, if you have a Civil Service job, your SS is cut roughly in half. My military experience was never looked at, as a Graduate Degree has nothing comparable to 38 inch silicone implants, with a High School Diploma. My income is sufficient and my wife is a Linguistics Professor, so income is not an issue, leaving a job I truly loved is. Use your "down time" to getting an undergrad degree (take every CLEP test you can) passing these tests can get you two years of college credit. Talk to a college counselor, take aptitude tests and go for a degree that will be worth something down the road. Liberal Arts, in my opinion, is close to under water basket weaving. Avoid the iPhone crowd (easily recognized) as they can't piss without putting it online. You have lived in the dirt, so don't be afraid of doing a menial job, to help pay for college. Our country used to be Engineers, Builders and Medical Care professionals...(hey, I know. Marine who went to school and is an RN)...his paycheck is quite enviable, when compared to the "basket weavers" who need a safe place when they see a Confederate Flag, or (heaven forbid) you explain what an Infantryman has to go through to get a CIB. Our country now hires foreign doctors and a lot in our medical professions. Good luck, don't waste your early years on beer & broads...you can put that on hold for awhile. Oh, are you fluent in Espanol? Not border brother talk, but Spanish that is spoken in Spain or Colombia? Keep in touch, you are going to run your head into a lot of walls, don't let that be a sign to quit. Infantrymen don't retreat, just attack in another directon (a Marine said that, almost verbatim, Chesty Puller), Look up his career, I think 5 Navy Crosses tells me he ran into a lot of walls, and pissed off a lot of his peers.

Response by Cpl Kyle McDonald made Jul 19 at 2016 9:14 PM

Cpl Kyle McDonald — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 21:14:47 -0400

Thier are messed up in civy life, I definitely woulden't trust them in the military. I worked at Intel and Vikings Stadium ironworking, their lazy and cry harassment.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:46 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:46:59 -0400

For what it's worth - My AFSC/MOS is predominantly male (aircraft mx to vehicle mx), and now that I'm a weekend warrior I've noticed that the only people I can easily communicate with are other veterans who are from mx career fields. Maybe it's a lack of common ground that has you feeling this way? I have a terrible time relating with and communicating with some women or men because of this. Generalizing is a bad way to go... I've learned that not all guys know anything about cars, or appreciate the satisfying feeling of "doing it yourself", so keep in mind that whatever you think about women (generally) may not be true for the one you're speaking with. I for one definitely prefer beer to wine. ;)

Response by SSgt Walter Lonsdale made Aug 23 at 2016 8:49 AM

SSgt Walter Lonsdale — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:49:28 -0400

Women are on a different wavelength. Men tend to think linearly while women don't.

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Aug 23 at 2016 9:20 AM

SSG Jessica Bautista — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:20:36 -0400

I think it's funny how most men see us as a whole other species. Haha

Anyway, if you're nervous, the easiest thing to do is start with work/school stuff. Then, wait until she talks off topic. Match your speech with hers. Evolution has given us this subconscious mimicry that allows us to feel "connected" to another person. Fake it until it comes naturally. Don't use these powers for evil though.

Response by Teresa Rinen Telles made Aug 23 at 2016 10:04 AM

Teresa Rinen Telles — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:04:44 -0400

My son is an Infantryman, as was his father. Their problem stems from the fact that the father was taught from a very young age that women were inferior. He taught one of his sons (the infantryman) that women were to be treated as inferior as well. I divorced the father for abuse, and recently "divorced" the son until such time as his behavior toward women improves. I don't expect his behavior to change.

Response by PFC Francis Ramseyer made Aug 23 at 2016 10:56 AM

PFC Francis Ramseyer — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:56:25 -0400

Well, I never had any problem with women. I was E3 and she was O3, medical doctor, in Ford Ord when I served there. We were together for more than 6 months and the difference was only cultural, she was American and I was Swiss.

Response by LTC Mark Beattie made Aug 23 at 2016 11:43 AM

LTC Mark Beattie — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:43:30 -0400

This is a very sensitive topic to discuss in an open forum as it opens you and respondents up to attacks and criticism. I was an infantryman for many years before transferring to Special Forces, so believe I can relate. I had relatively little contact with females while on active duty. However, since retiring that all changed. I will not discuss all that I experienced, only say that I learned through trial and error, and have several personal lessons learned. My guidance to both men and women is to first and foremost, ALWAYS keep your work relationships “professional.” Don’t fall into the trap of feeling too comfortable after you get to know people in your work place. When you cross over the line from professional workplace relationship to something more casual, you greatly increase the potential for trouble, i.e. discrimination of any type, sexual harassment, etc. It’s my experience, as it is of many others, that men and women are simply wired a bit differently, thus, interpret information differently, to include what may seem to you a harmless statement. Indirectly, if you’re ever in a supervisor position my suggestion is to be careful anytime you find it necessary to point out someone’s shortcomings, man or woman. If you’re in a position to hire your subordinates, then do a good job of vetting applicants before hiring anyone. This will mitigate a lot of problems. However, there may be instances where you hire someone not well suited for the job or the group of people they will work with, or are simply not performing well. If and when the time comes you need to counsel someone (man or woman), consider carefully if this is best done privately, or witnessed by a second party like your assistant or an HR representative. You never want to open yourself open to a situation where what was said and your integrity are questioned. I hope I've answered your question and helped a little.

Response by SSG Ron Stewart made Aug 23 at 2016 12:20 PM

SSG Ron Stewart — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:20:46 -0400

Brother when I first got out I was in the car business and whenever I applied for management positions at the dealerships I worked at. They always said that they felt I wouldn't be a good fit because I only saw things in Black and White and didn't seem to look at the gray area, for a long time. After 5 years they finally gave me a shot and were very pleased with my results. Either they felt I had adjusted to civilian life or they actually wanted that black and perspective. Keep your head up it will get easier I promise. Those in charge at that time were female management yet later we became close friends and still are to this day.

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Aug 23 at 2016 1:43 PM

CW3 Kim B. — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:43:13 -0400

SGT you have answered your own question. You don't view women as equals. Fix that and you will be able to communicate with anyone regardless of gender, race, religion, etc.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 23 at 2016 1:55 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:55:35 -0400

Welcome to the man hood club. I was that way before infantry. When you figure out women, would you please post it so all us guys can figure them out.

Response by PFC Jon Deva made Aug 23 at 2016 2:11 PM

PFC Jon Deva — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:11:15 -0400

There are Many good answers already posted here.
Much good advice from our Warrior Gentlemen Brothers.
I will share a few tips:

Women are extremely emotional beings. They feel emotions strongly and act from there. "Emotion" is a word that explains much. It means to have a feeling, that causes you to take action, to put your body into motion.

"E"= feeling that is experienced, "motion" = the resulting action. The letter "E", the long E sound, is the feeling that occurs in the mind/consciousness/awareness field (Chitta, in Sanskrit). We all have feelings, they arise from our gut (gut feelings) and rise to our awareness in the mind-field (Chitta). Those feelings cause people to take action.

These actions are often not logical and self detrimental. When people act from the lower mind (manas) responding to their feelings without thought from the higher mind (Bhuddhi) they do stupid things that defy all logic and even the self-preservation instinct.

For example, there was a man, a convict, who was recently released from prison.
He had daughters whom he wanted to provide for, could not get work because of his incarceration.
So he attempted to burglarize an apartment. He did not know that two females were present in the apt. Upon discovering the females he tied them to a chair and continued his attempted burglary.

If he was wise, he would have gagged them, and their lives would have been saved, but he was not wise (obviously) and he only tied their hands and feet.

One of the women, reacting from emotion and without any sense, said,"We've seen your face, we're going to give the police your description."

This stupid statement, spoken by the emotional female, caused her own demise.

The man, a mere thief, must now become a killer and murderer.
Not wishing to return to jail, where he could not provide for his beloved daughters,
He realized he now had to kill the women, so that his description could not be given.

So here you can see, from this real life story, how people acting emotionally from their lower mind can defy all logic and cause harm to themselves and others.

As Soldiers/Warriors/Police/Peace Keepers, We must use our calmness and strength to guide the females to the realm of logical action when they become over emotional and out of control.

The book below (Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: The Classic Guide to Understanding the Opposite Sex) is a good place to learn about the differences between men and women's minds.

Another book, Emotional Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman is very useful in understanding emotions, women, and why people do stupid things. The above antidote about the thief turned killer is told in that book.

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Intelligence-Anniversary-Daniel-Goleman-ebook/dp/055338371X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=1-3&keywords=emotional+intelligence

Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ: Daniel Goleman: 9780553383713:...

Buy Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ on Amazon.com â FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

Response by PFC Robert Frye made Aug 23 at 2016 3:55 PM

PFC Robert Frye — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 15:55:40 -0400

as a 13b I can only say the army scared us about females. dont look at them and keep conversation professional and to the point. I find it odd to work with females its like they are unexploded ordnance and I keep my professional distance.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 6:16 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:16:21 -0400

Do you have a mother, sister, girlfriend or wife? Think about how you would want them treated and work from there.

Response by SPC Joel Quey made Aug 23 at 2016 7:27 PM

SPC Joel Quey — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:27:39 -0400

Women are humans too. I know it sounds simple and obvious, but it's important. Our culture makes this big deal about women being so impossible for men to understand, and vice versa.

There are women who are blunt and straightforward, and there are men who are more subtle or evasive. Heck, the same person might be one or the other, depending on their mood, the situation, etc. I know I sometimes do.

I think the biggest problem is that we play mindgames with ourselves. It's psychological warfare on our own minds. When I was in elementary school, I was in a group of kids who got more challenging math to work on. But going into 5th grade, I heard graduating 5th graders saying that it was way harder, so I freaked out about it. Then the teacher put really simple equations on the board, but I couldn't answer them because I was so convinced that they would be really hard. I think it's the same thing with communicating with the opposite gender. We make it harder by buying into the idea that it's supposed to be hard.

http://imgur.com/gallery/zGfrH4w

"I don't understand women"

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.

Response by Joanne Stine made Aug 23 at 2016 7:45 PM

Joanne Stine — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:45:07 -0400

I am a Blue Star mom of a woman SPC in 1-7 CAV. I've been married to a former AF Sergeant for 40+ years. I was raised with 4 brothers in a Sicilian family in the San Fernando Valley. I get the differences with body language, voice inflection, etc. The most important things I've learned about communication came late in life with this book: Tactics: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions https://www.amazon.com/Tactics-Game-Discussing-Christian-Convictions/dp/ [login to see] /ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=8-1&keywords=tactics+greg+koukl. It's applicable to all kinds of communication, not just religious topics. The part that would be the most helpful with your situation with the Teaching Assistant would probably be the part about "Steamrollers". Hope this helps!

Tactics: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions: Gregory Koukl: 0025986282929:...

Tactics: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions [Gregory Koukl] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. In a world increasingly indifferent to Christian truth, followers of Christ need to be equipped to communicate with those who do not speak their language or accept their source of authority. Gregory Koukl demonstrates how to get in the driver’s seat

Response by CPO Zack Lindsey made Aug 23 at 2016 10:04 PM

CPO Zack Lindsey — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:04:35 -0400

Hey I'm not I fry but if she is there to do the same you are are and that is to kill mame and protect the flag I think it will be ok and I don't think you going to say anything she as not heard before but just treat her the way you would like to be treated and the way you treat any one that works for u just be fair all the same

Response by SPC James Gromley made Aug 24 at 2016 9:55 AM

SPC James Gromley — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:55:45 -0400

So here is how you fix that, surprised you need told but hey it happens, you have a mother, aunt or grandmother right? Treat all women you work with the same as you would treat them and you will find that you no longer have issues. The problem is not that you don't know how it is in the fact that at some point you have been taught that women are to be either looked down on or what is most likely the case you are being over protective due to seeing them as helpless and in need of protection. Trust me women are stronger than you think, we humans are one of the few beings on this planet where the male gender is in charge of most things in life. All insect of all types are Female dominated and the males fulfill one role, in the Lion kingdom the female is the hunter and provider where as the males are the so called babysitters of the prides. So just treat all the Ladies you work with the same way you think you mother would want to be treat and you will do fine.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 1:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:45:54 -0400

In the mid-90's I had the misfortune of attending the RC-Military Police course with 100+ infantrymen who were reclassifying to MP, as all AR infantry had to do back then. Suffice it to say that in today's SHARP environment, most of the +/- 120 infantry males that were in that class with the 8 females attending the course would have been put out of the military. The level of insult an constant innuendo was the worst I have experienced in my 33 years of service. Hopefully that has changed since then but I don't know since have not been exposed to infantry Soldiers in any other jobs or schools.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 1:59 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:59:38 -0400

Wtf is this a lot of them are marred so clearly they can communicate with woman

Response by Susan Weekley made Aug 25 at 2016 1:39 AM

Susan Weekley — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 01:39:22 -0400

In military no they communicate. Civilians depends on if woman is gaming, intelligent or use to the way military bond effects communications. Fist in the wall stuff. You asked.

Response by SPC Fred Richardson made Aug 26 at 2016 12:32 AM

SPC Fred Richardson — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 00:32:07 -0400

I have the same problem. Sometimes I think that the harder I try to filter the more I am misunderstood.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 26 at 2016 3:10 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 03:10:38 -0400

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres You do not have to be a leg to have that problem1 The LORD designed them that way!

Response by LCpl James Perry made Aug 29 at 2016 8:40 AM

LCpl James Perry — Mon, 29 Aug 2016 08:40:18 -0400

It all depends on the individual and relationships

Response by SGT Mary G. made Aug 31 at 2016 2:38 AM

SGT Mary G. — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 02:38:12 -0400

There are serious unspoken negative attitudes to be found from some civilians about folks who serve and have served - especially in colleges, and in work places with a lot of women. Have you considered that your "radar" is picking up on attitudes that make you uncomfortable? The work is in getting those attitudes to be spoken, then having an intelligent conversation about them.

Some civilians (especially women) seem to have a mental block that prevents them from understanding that folks who serve are cannon fodder protecting their civilian asses AND, as such, hate war and love peace as much or more than civilians! It seems to fall on deaf ears with such folks when I comment that military folks do not want war and armed conflict . . . that it's about being there to do what needs to be done - if and when armed conflict is necessary. But I say it anyway.

The concept of laying your life on the line for your nation and those with whom you serve, is beyond those who imagine folks serve because they are ignorant war-mongering psychos with a death wish. If you find out where people stand in that respect then it is easier to know how to relate to them.

On a lighter note . . . have you also considered that your radar is picking up on some amount of unspoken hero worship and/or curiosity from some women and making you uncomfortable? ;)

Response by Sgt John Juelfs made Nov 15 at 2016 9:50 PM

Sgt John Juelfs — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:50:05 -0500

Women in the infantry I don't think is a good thing. Not that they can't do the job I'm sure they can even better than a man sometimes. The problem I see is the same as since the beginning of time. Jealousy,over protection and sexism. It is not the way it's supposed to be but that is the way it is

Response by Emerald S made Nov 24 at 2016 9:02 PM

Emerald S — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 21:02:33 -0500

no man does its all the womens fault

Response by Cpl Brian Johnston made Nov 25 at 2016 1:20 AM

Cpl Brian Johnston — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 01:20:42 -0500

It depends on what your goals are.

If you want to get married, try church groups or some such.
If you want to just have fun dating, learn how to dance!
If you just want to have sex, here's my advice:
In any group of women, 10% would be willing if you just blow in their ear.
But which of the group is in that 10% changes from day-to-day, even moment-to-moment!
The same approach that gets you a slap in the face from a gal one day, might be just the right approach with her the next day.
The trick is figuring out who is in the 10% at any particular time, and not burning any bridges.

The great question that has never been answered, and which I have not yet been able to answer, despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, is "What does a woman want?" - Sigmund Freud

Good luck, Daddy-O!

Response by SPC Randall Pendley made Dec 11 at 2016 8:08 PM

SPC Randall Pendley — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 20:08:43 -0500

Just part of being a young man. With a little age it dose get better.

Response by Emerald S made Dec 6 at 2017 2:31 AM

Emerald S — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 02:31:51 -0500

good morning , men do communicate as women do ,verbal communication takes time ,no kidding= at any age' . welcome to the human race..thank you for the note. re reading the posted question . SGT Richard comment is pretty close yet i'd note how were the conversations from family females in early days. even daughters have mothers.. hear your words / it is important of that , yourself gave an answer ..." where I have to communicate with them ,,,one yr. later work place etc is just that" work .. have to talk with them.. yes if part of day work tasks. if talk not about work ,dodge politely to busy at work stuff.. when you will meet that special one , pick a topic both agree upon to talk about , try and stay comfortably talking= 1 topic for 2 hours=that means her too....both of you + her be your real selves , .. female can birth babies thus , not necessarily kinder and gentler person could well ~ thats all for you someday / no rush .that early communicate will be all your to build . no need to reply gosh your typing your heartache like many other go through .