Do today's junior NCOs have all the necessary tools and backing from their leadership to properly instill good order and discipline?

2016-03-30T07:27:10-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 7:41 AM

2016-03-30T07:41:41-04:00

This would depend on the local unit. I believe that all the tools are available. The backing varies between different commands

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 7:46 AM

2016-03-30T07:46:03-04:00

MSG, I'm in Korea and these junior leaders have no backing from senior leaders that have stated "I came over here for a vacation"! With Fresh out of AIT Soldiers, and the senior leadership wonders why they have so many minor infractions with handcuffed 1st line leaders! I'm at my wits end, seriously debating how "regulations are guidelines"!

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Mar 30 at 2016 8:07 AM

2016-03-30T08:07:46-04:00

sometimes

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 8:43 AM

2016-03-30T08:43:07-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member hit the nail on the head. I've experienced both ends of the spectrum. NCOs are just overpaid specialists if the command won't back them.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made Mar 30 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-03-30T09:01:16-04:00

Good question MSG Eaton. In my opinion, holistically, no. Although unit dependent; most unit level leadership focus drives on the mission and current day/next day objectives leaving little to no room for Junior leadership development, mentorship, or even enforcing basic to advanced standards. Too often I have seen where certain standards in discipline are shirked because it would detract from the time that could be emphasized or put elsewhere. The other issue I have noticed is that leaders are "too busy" trying to be busy in areas that are particularly unimportant - such as redundancy in meetings. If emphasis were placed more on Junior Leader Development in-turn allowing Junior Enlisted to be trained and held accountable/responsible there would be a dramatic increase in good order and discipline in the force. I remember the times of shadow leadership, where Privates - Specialist were shadowing and doing some of the duties of senior leadership such as Platoon Sergeant - Battalion Commander (2nd Chemical Battalion, Ft. Hood, TX 1998-2000). Great times!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 9:11 AM

2016-03-30T09:11:21-04:00

I don't believe we have the backing or support anymore maybe years ago but in this present time I would say no. Today's soldiers lack's the basic discipline and integrity and we as NCO hands are tied when it comes to instilling that discipline. We place too much emphasis on these soldiers complaining and feelings. These soldiers have too much say nowadays soldiers coming straight out of basic is telling you they are not doing this and not doing that last time I checked that was not an option when I joined when did that change

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 9:23 AM

2016-03-30T09:23:35-04:00

The tools are provided. What the young NCOs do with them however is very much dependent on the way companies are run.
For decades, I had and subsequently burned into others the value of solving problems at the lowest level. Not hazing. Not tyranny. Just doing what needs to be done. At my level, I should be guiding and advising, occasionally providing resources when needed. In my house, my NCOs have all the support they need, and when they get off the rails, I rein them in and guide them back on the right track. In turn, I expect them to do the same with their Soldiers.
It isn't magic, just engagement.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Mar 30 at 2016 9:44 AM

2016-03-30T09:44:26-04:00

MSG Shawn Eaton I think it depends on the unit and the chain of command. If the commander/CSM/1SG are doing their job, they are providing the backing and support needed by the junior NCOs and ensuring the other officers and NCOs are doing so as well.

Response by SFC Craig Dalen made Mar 30 at 2016 10:16 AM

2016-03-30T10:16:17-04:00

We can only hope that their units are taking care of them. I have seen it both ways. Just as long as they have time in between all the 350-1 training and multiple meetings...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 10:27 AM

2016-03-30T10:27:21-04:00

That would depend a great deal on THEIR leadership. If you are learning from terribleble leaders they can pick up bad habits/good leaders great habits.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 8:53 PM

2016-03-30T20:53:34-04:00

Nope. I find that as you move up in rank (not with everyone) you tend to help young NCOs and soldiers less. As an E4 I learned early on to find my own answers and solutions to things my NCOs should know. Finance issues for example is huge yet I couldn't confide in my NCOs to point me in the right direction. I think many new NCOs have a vision of how they want to be as an NCO yet get lost in the amount of authority they gain as well. If soldiers were trusted and given more opportunities to take charge, they would be better prepared as an NCO

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 3:18 AM

2016-03-31T03:18:55-04:00

The tools I had available to me as a SPC were WLC and some of the ALMS courses. I think a lot of these classes are not taken seriously. I know many people find ways to click through SSD1, and their leaders are the ones telling them how to do it so they can put it on the NCOER. Other tools I had were some of the worst leadership I have ever had. I call them tools because they taught me what not to do. I was deployed when I did SSD1. I had nothing but time so I actually paid attention and took notes. I got it some of the information is redundant, however, there was some good stuff in there. If there were other tools available I don't know what I missed out on.

As far as backing from the leadership, I would have to agree with the majority of posts that it depends on the unit. I have been through 2 battalion commanders, 4 company commanders and countless NCOIC's. I have been blessed with awesome leaders and cursed with some real duds.

My leadership philosophy is to maintain good order and discipline by fostering a climate of mutual respect. I don't buy the excuse that it's a new army and new soldiers treat NCO's with no respect. If your soldiers don't respect you right off the bat that's failed leadership from previous units. If they don't respect you after months under your command that's on you. We as leaders need to adapt our styles to find what motivates that soldier and exploit that to make them better everyday. They need to feel like you are committed to them and the mission. Some soldiers respond to the old school yelling and smoking while others it simply takes a "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed." There's other styles, then smoking the balls off soldiers.

This is turning into a rant I'll cut it off here. But I think I have the tools and backing to have my soldiers perform well.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 6:53 AM

2016-03-31T06:53:24-04:00

I dont think so because, i think senior leaders for got about us

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 31 at 2016 7:21 AM

2016-03-31T07:21:01-04:00

I do not know that starts with those of your grade and higher, and the training and education provided by the military. Do you as a MSG provide the guidance and backing required. Implementation of good order and discipline is a Top Down Bottom up process.