Do we segregate ourselves?

2013-11-30T00:52:45-05:00

This is perhaps the most uncomfortable issue the military avoids discussing; why does there appear to be more minority representation in sustainment units than in "Combat Arms"?  This isn't a criticism.  It's an observation.  I'm not a minority.  So for me to answer why would be presumptuous.  I'm confident that many of us in the Army have observed that SOF units and the Infantry, especially light, are predominantly Caucasian.  But sustainment units have a higher percentage of minorities.  This is especially so in the commissioned officer corps.<br><br>This is a tough question.  I'm uncomfortable asking it.  But if we don't ask tough questions, what good is this forum?  This isn't intended to demean or criticize anyone's service or career choices.  I'm just curious as to why our Army is like this.  I hope this difficult question inspires some frank and mature responses.<br>

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2013 9:37 AM

2013-11-30T09:37:12-05:00

The answer is personal choice. I have got this same story from several of my former leaders who were members of black fraternities.

The first part of the military to be integrated were the sustainment branches so even when the rest of the military was open to all races, the sustainment branches had more minority senior leaders to mentor young minority Soldiers. Also the majority of minority veterans come from these branches and encourage family members to join a field they can use after the military as they did.

I've seen the numbers, this isn't just a perception.

Response by TSgt Abe Bowman made Nov 30 at 2013 10:21 AM

2013-11-30T10:21:10-05:00

When I was in the Air Force, I would look for folks who were from/or were long time residents of Hawaii. I did so because I could relate and reminisce with folks from home. But when it came to work, I was like any other person in the work place.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2013 1:37 PM

2013-11-30T13:37:18-05:00

https://data.govloop.com/Government/Minority-Representation-in-Federal-Employment/et5d-4f6a - just to start but there's a lot of research out there.<br><br>It's tied into broader trends in federal employment as a whole; there's statistics by department that show greater black employment in HUD, DHHS, and the Postal Service, compared to other departments.  So, no it's not just perception, and it's not just within the military.<br><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="/stylesheets/images/common/socrata_logo_square.png"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="https://data.govloop.com/Government/Minority-Representation-in-Federal-Employment/et5d-4f6a">Minority Representation in Federal Employment | GovLoop | Social Data Network for Government</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">Number and percentage of minorities that work in federal government. Black, hispanic, asian, and white</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by Capt Ed Yong made Nov 30 at 2013 2:05 PM

2013-11-30T14:05:26-05:00

It's only uncomfortable when people inject "racism" into everything. From my personal perspective, people identify with those who are similar be it culture, part of the country, city, state, looks, school, etc. That isn't racism nor segregation. Visually, it may look like it to those looking for racism or segregation. It's really identifying with familiarity.

I did it myself identifying with all types of people but from the Air Force Academy, people from Chicago, other service academies etc. I was more comfortable talking to people from service academies than to people not from service academies. I am more comfortable talking to military members than I am with industry professionals. I gravitate to people that I can relate to and we all do it. Go to any social gathering and see who breaks off into their small groups - people who have something in common.

Forcing diversity has its negative effect of constantly putting "racism" in our faces. As for types of jobs that appear predominantly one type or another, I haven't seen where the jobs are closed off to certain people. The jobs are open. The Marines recently had some females complete one of their job types.

It's not a bad thing to ask people to mingle to get to know people outside of our own familiarities or even to vie for job types.

Anyway, my two cents.

Response by SGT Jurvis Lasalle made Nov 30 at 2013 2:26 PM

2013-11-30T14:26:24-05:00

all one have to do is look at the prison population and see this same result, all kinds stick to each other to survive. growing up in the south I use to think the north was different but now that I live here in conn. I can tell you for a fact it is just as bad up here too. when you got a pro ball ball club that is the last to segregate in the big league that speaks loudly. (boston red flops) when white's are in a group and they think it is safe to truly express themselves that is when the true colors let go and the vile and racist stuff comes out. have seen this many many times and I know what I'm talking about is true. and the same goes for the other race of people too. now I cant infiltrate the latin or black world to prove my point but the blacks who know me will talk freely and the same goes there vile and racist stuff there too. so how do we fix this = that is a good question.

Response by CPT Robert Darby made Nov 30 at 2013 2:30 PM

2013-11-30T14:30:39-05:00

When it comes to racial and social issues, the Military isn't that different than the general society. While service members maybe required to work together, they still enter the Service with whatever bias and prejudice that existed as a civilian. From a sociological point of view, people tend to naturally gravitate towards those of similar backgrounds.<div>It appears, the Combat Arms seems to draw more Caucasians, than any other branch. This could simply be a recruiting issue. Most some called Minorities join the  Service for educational  benefits or skills training. Sustainments units have more career fields with direct civilian application.  Combat Arms offer few civilian opportunities outside security contractor or law enforcement. </div><div>Similarly with the Officer Corp, most Black Officers choose career fields directly related to their major. Of my graduation ROTC class of 18 Officers, only 4 of us chose Combat Arms. </div>

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Nov 30 at 2013 2:48 PM

2013-11-30T14:48:41-05:00

<p>When I was in active duty, I would segregate myself from any one who only could speak Spanish.</p><p>I'm Puerto Rican and could talk Spanish, but since English was what I knew very well, hanging around with my culture and people from my birthplace kind of made me a bit uncomfortable, because the way they would joke was different then what I grew and accustom to. </p><p>It was rather reversed for me, I would prefer anyone who knew English no matter what race or culture.</p><p>At the present time I out grew all that, and I can speak with both Spanish and English speaking very well and comfortably. </p><p>It never bothered me considering that one of those who spoke Spanish all the time was actually my cousin by blood. I kind of regret it a bit that he had so much that I wanted to know and couldn't even ask him at the time. concerning my father whom I never meet, and he knew very well because his father was my fathers brother.</p>

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2013 4:11 PM

2013-11-30T16:11:34-05:00

It's pretty simple.  There's a cultural bias in minority communities toward MOS choices that are percieved as being readilly translatable to civilian employment.  That bias exits among all cultural communities, it's just stronger in some than others.

Response by SSG Abraham Quintanilla made May 31 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-05-31T11:40:39-04:00

We segregate ourselves starting from birth pretty much. The only neighborhood that I've ever seen not segregated by ethnicity were the housing on post. But those were segregated by rank. So even though the military tries to prevent segregation we tend to migrate towards jobs with the most amount of people who we are comfortable being with. Tend to spend our time we like minded individuals. The military tends to break some barriers but it can only go so far because we're taught that somethings are a certain way and somethings should be a certain way. Its not something we can pinpoint but some of what happens is that we refuse to leave our comfort zone for long periods of time.