Do you agree that the first amendment protects the right to desecrate the American flag?

2016-05-05T20:21:07-04:00

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made May 5 at 2016 8:24 PM

2016-05-05T20:24:40-04:00

I hate seeing it, but at least it reminds me we live in a free country.

You probably can't burn the North Korean flag in North Korea. That's not something we need to copy from them.

Response by SFC Wade W. made May 5 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-05-05T20:25:43-04:00

No, but yes. Personally, I find it very offensive. Constitutionally I understand why it is legal. Passing a law to make it illegal would never pass through the SCOTUS.

Response by Alan K. made May 5 at 2016 8:35 PM

2016-05-05T20:35:17-04:00

ABSOLUTELY NOT........Whoa be he who i see.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made May 5 at 2016 8:47 PM

2016-05-05T20:47:27-04:00

Sgt Joe LaBranche I agree it protects them,but i do not like it.
How can there be such be so much controversy over the 2nd amendment and this go almost unchallenged?

Response by SGT Kathi Prato made May 5 at 2016 8:52 PM

2016-05-05T20:52:00-04:00

I understand the Supreme Court's ruling on it, but understanding doesn't equal agreeing with it.

The flag is a symbol of our freedom and it is held most dear to those who have volunteered to fight to protect it. Anyone who has done that will cringe at the mere thought of someone desecrating the flag. It's all perspective. I had this conversation with a friend who is also a veteran and she said to me "The flag is a piece of cloth... that's all. Someone burning that doesn't take away the pride I had in defending it".... brought a new perspective for me; but it still makes me sick.

Response by CPO Frank Coluccio made May 5 at 2016 8:52 PM

2016-05-05T20:52:16-04:00

I agree in so much as to their right burn it doesn't affect my right to stop them from doing so!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrV8QPQAhxo

The Greatest Play In Baseball - Rick Monday Saves U.S. Flag

On April 25, 1976 at Dodger Stadium, Rick Monday of the Chicago Cubs, grabbed and secured the American flag from two individuals as they were attempting to b...

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 5 at 2016 9:00 PM

2016-05-05T21:00:17-04:00

Yes...it's been to court and upheld (Texas v Johnson, 1989). People can do what they want to our flag.

NOTE: I do not agree with it, BUT, it's on of the rights we fight for and protect.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made May 5 at 2016 9:04 PM

2016-05-05T21:04:53-04:00

I was born under IT I fought under IT I will be buried under IT. The law may say you can desecrate IT but I will always honor IT my Flag my Country

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2016 9:05 PM

2016-05-05T21:05:05-04:00

I don't like it, and it's not a matter of agreement or disagreement as the issue is settled legally, but yes the right is and should be protected. I understand why people here seem vocal stating that it should be verboten, but consider that once you start putting restrictions on speech you might not like where that path leads you later on down the road.

Response by SSG Dennis Grossmann made May 5 at 2016 9:06 PM

2016-05-05T21:06:36-04:00

Their 1st amendment right to burn it doesn't stop my 1st amendment right to expression by whoopin their candyasses.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 5 at 2016 9:17 PM

2016-05-05T21:17:36-04:00

(Protections of) Freedoms don't cover things we like.

They cover the things others despise. They cover the things that "someone" in society is going to find offensive. That someone is going to hate. That someone is going to want to stop. That someone is going to want to pass a law to keep you from doing.

They are the slippery slope argument.

Of course, no one should desecrate the Flag. The Flag is a living symbol of our Nation. our Nation is great. Probably the greatest that has ever been.

Unfortunately, it is also a symbol of our Government. And our Government is the opposite of that. America is great... The US Government is bureaucracy, and it is inefficient, ineffective, and untrustworthy... and it is represented by the Flag. I can see why people might get a little irate at the confusion. To them, they don't know the NATION. They only know the GOVERNMENT.

And the Government is why we have those (Protections of) Freedoms. The Framers didn't trust it either.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-05-05T21:35:47-04:00

Flag burning doesn't bother me in the least. Because no rights or principles actually reside in that cloth symbol. And the values and rights that are represented are those found in the constituiton. And one of the most important rights in the constitution is the right to openly express political opinion without government reprecussions. So when I see a flag burning, I see someone exercising the rights that make this country great. Maybe they are doing it because they don't believe in the "America- love it or leave it" but rather in the "America-love it and change it" when they feel the country is doing something wrong.

Take this website as an example. Even though it is full of active duty military and veterans, there are many many posts that say the country is fucked up, the president is fucked up,the government is fucked up, etc etc and it needs to change. Well why is it OK for those people to express that disdain for the government by publically saying those things, but not by burning a flag? Maybe they are burning it because they believe that the government is violating the principles that the flag represents and want to call attention to it.

So count me as the cynical one. I am not impressed by all the military and former military who say they want to kick someones ass for burning the flag. Unless we are also going to kick everyones ass who talks negatively about our government as well. If it ever becomes "antiAmerican" to criticize the government, we are in a world of hurt. And it would mean we have an awful lot of antiAmerican people posting on this site.

Isn't it odd that so many people shake their heads and wag their fingers and say they just can't understand why certain muslims get upset if someone burns a Koran or depicts Mohammed in political cartoons ? They say it's only freedom of speech and they shouldn't get upset about it. Yet they say they will attack and do bodily harm to someone burning the US flag and want the government to throw them in jail for it. Hmmmm...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2016 10:12 PM

2016-05-05T22:12:45-04:00

I would have to agree with this statement. I think those who don't have any idea of what it means to have the freedoms they have because of those who have some and all should be made to serve at least some time in the service.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 5 at 2016 10:14 PM

2016-05-05T22:14:13-04:00

There wouldn't be a need to desecrate the flag if it were respected. Not respecting something is protected speech according to the courts. So yes we can feel bad about it but consider how proud you are and how much you respect the flag. You're in a much better place than those oxygen thieves.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 5 at 2016 10:23 PM

2016-05-05T22:23:53-04:00

No!

Response by Capt Michael Greene made May 5 at 2016 10:42 PM

2016-05-05T22:42:20-04:00

It's the law. I agree with it. Desecrating the flag is free speech.

I don't like it, but it is more important to defend the constitution than to defend the flag.

Response by SPC David S. made May 5 at 2016 11:03 PM

2016-05-05T23:03:08-04:00

I think anywhere this takes place it should be challenged. Such people that want to make a point move out of the country and stop paying taxes. If I see it I'm likely to cause a stink like this guy. I will make my voice heard as well - freedom of speech is a two way street.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxVf0YsGFZ8

Stepping on the American flag at UCLA

Protesters step on the American flag at UCLA while a student who was walking by forces them off.

Response by SSG William Jones made May 5 at 2016 11:29 PM

2016-05-05T23:29:41-04:00

I believe that it's controversial even to regard flag burning as an example of free speech. For starters, the law can't label and protect a limitless variety of conduct as "speech" whenever the person engaged in such conduct intends to express an idea. Only reckless or accidental acts are not intended by that person to have a certain effect. Second, the purpose of free speech protection is the advancement of knowledge or truth. Free speech allows the value and credibility of different ideas to be publicly discussed, rejected, accepted or further developed, but flag burning doesn't contribute to any dialogue or exchange of ideas. It's the opposite of rationality and cogent debate.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 12:23 AM

2016-05-06T00:23:14-04:00

I do not agree with folks that want to burn the flag, even though they might have the right to do so. I also will never associate with fools.

Response by SGT David Emme made May 6 at 2016 2:00 AM

2016-05-06T02:00:22-04:00

No I do not agree the 1st amendment protects this right or ever should. The flag represents the foundation of our constitutional rights. You destroy the foundation, you destroy the rights it claims to give. When I went to school, I was taught the red in the stripes represent the blood shed to found our country, the white the rightness or purity of our cause. I do not believe you will find this in many other countries-where the desecration of our national symbol that purchased our freedom is a protected form of expression...but only in America. If there was ever a cause for a constitutional amendment-restoring the sacredness to our flag would be one reason to amend the constitution!

Response by MSgt Mayo Sifford made May 6 at 2016 2:10 AM

2016-05-06T02:10:02-04:00

Unfortunately, yes. Doing so is hateful and wrongheaded but it us protected by our Constitution. At least according to SCOTUS. So until the freedom of speech clause in the Constitution is amended I will continue to defend it as I swore to do.

Response by PO3 James Staley made May 6 at 2016 4:04 AM

2016-05-06T04:04:43-04:00

I am a big supporter of the first amendment. While I don't agree with desecrating the flag. I believe that if people want to do that they have every right to do so. That also means that I don't have to stand by and watch you do it. Just because you can do something that doesn't mean that you should.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made May 6 at 2016 4:13 AM

2016-05-06T04:13:49-04:00

No. It's not 'freedom of speech'. That flag represents our entire country, good or bad. I love my country in all it's greatness and it's faults. It's not perfect and wasn't mean to be. We have Amendments to our Constitution. Intelligent people can show disdain for the government, similar body, or issue without doing this.
There are countless soldiers who have spent parts of their life, even entire lives, or losing it to protect our way of life. So people can peacefully and violently protest. To protect the people who love and hate us. We do so much even though there is often a negative stigma attached to military and Veterans. They insult the countless family and loved ones of our soldiers when they do this.
I can guarantee without our military, another country will take us over. In some countries we are hated and I'm sure they'd like nothing more to end our country and take it over. True enemies may seem like friends b/c they will never tell you their true intentions. It's very sad b/c the people on this planet are not united.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made May 6 at 2016 6:14 AM

2016-05-06T06:14:51-04:00

Obligatory "American President" speech response.....

Response by SGT Callen Pool made May 6 at 2016 9:09 AM

2016-05-06T09:09:07-04:00

I personally don't think its right. I'm glad nobody tries that kind of bs around me. but if I'm correct there's laws in place about the destruction of the American flag. and stomping on it does not fall under the description of destruction

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 9:56 AM

2016-05-06T09:56:47-04:00

Hi, Sgt LaBranche.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of them press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The First Amendment protects those that would desecrate my flag from government interference that would prohibit the from doing so, not from me liberating it as soon as possible.

Go, Rick Monday.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 10:18 AM

2016-05-06T10:18:49-04:00

I do agree that it is. I teach my children that it is terrible and shouldn't be done; I also teach them that part of serving your country is protecting others rights. Freedom of Speech may be the most important right that we all have. It is unfortunate that some people use it to burn flags or protest funerals, but I rest easy because it is part of what make this country so great. No man, no symbol, and no idea is above the individual right.
I also believe that freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequence. Just because the government doesn't ban something doesn't mean somebody who exercises their freedom in a negative way doesn't mean they may face some sort of consequence.
When it comes down to it is freedom of speech and I served my country to protect that right.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made May 6 at 2016 11:18 AM

2016-05-06T11:18:36-04:00

Burning the American Flag is offensive to me and it appears to a lot of fellow Americans also. But, the first Amendment does not protect us from being offended. We have no right to not be offended.

On a personnel note Sgt., if I see someone burning the American flag in protest, there are not to many witnesses and it is low light, I might consider utilizing the garden hose on the situation. Sometimes, a garden hose can accidentally hit folks in the legs several times while putting out a fire.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 11:24 AM

2016-05-06T11:24:53-04:00

Such a powerful and appropriate message!!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 11:49 AM

2016-05-06T11:49:20-04:00

There are a lot of things that are brought to bear on this these types of questions, i.e. can't go into a movie house and yell "fire". There are laws on the books that address "fighting words" or actions that "shock the conscience" that provide of what would otherwise be considered assault. And by the way, there are federal statues against desecration of the flag, just never enforced...

Response by LTC Tom Jones made May 6 at 2016 11:57 AM

2016-05-06T11:57:43-04:00

My understanding is that the Constitution was created, purposely, as a flexible document. It is the law of the land and open for interpretation. The most binding interpretations, of course, are those made by the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court has upheld the right of a citizen to express him or herself in this fashion. Pussies.

Response by PFC Alexander Oliveira made May 6 at 2016 1:25 PM

2016-05-06T13:25:02-04:00

ya you can. but I can also drive my fist into your nose multiple times in quick succession for doing so.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 6 at 2016 1:41 PM

2016-05-06T13:41:32-04:00

I try to see the positive side of flag burning. I feel the same way about Neo-Nazis parading in the streets. Actually, I see two positives. First, it is a reminder of the liberties that we all enjoy as Americans. Second, it makes it easier to pick out my enemies.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made May 6 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-05-06T14:01:03-04:00

Yes. This is a good catch by SCOTUS. Freedom of expression is something that needs to be respected.

If you think outside the box you will see that.

Wlat

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made May 6 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-05-06T14:04:34-04:00

OK here we go. That flag represents us all, black, white, red, male, female or in between. It has seen the good and the bad we have endured but it still does what it has done since it first flew over the amber waves of grain. It inspires us to be better, to carry through with the task before us. What is he first nation to show up when disaster strikes in any part of the world to offer help? Yup, it's us and that flag is right there with us. My four MITT brothers who lost their lives in Iraq went home wrapped in flags. So it means a lot to me. I hate to see it used for political speech but that is the part of freedom we have to accept. I think that when anyone destroys or disrespects the flag they feel bad about it. You may not show it, but you are not really proud as an American to destroy that which has inspired many millions of Americans and millions of others across this planet.

Response by SGT David T. made May 6 at 2016 3:08 PM

2016-05-06T15:08:14-04:00

As much as I hate the behavior, it is protected "speech". Just as much as mine is when I express my dissatisfaction with said behavior.

Response by COL John McClellan made May 7 at 2016 4:59 PM

2016-05-07T16:59:53-04:00

Yes, it must. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but our system depends on these freedoms, even when taken to the extreme expression of flag burning,. Ironically, burning is also the proper way to retire and dispose of a flag out of service.

Response by MSgt Neil Greenfield made Feb 15 at 2017 9:11 AM

2017-02-15T09:11:52-05:00

There is only one legal rule regarding the burning of the U.S. flag, 4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag, specifically section(k):
"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."
Our local scouts collect flags all the time to perform this duty. I suspect most people just throw old flags away.
There is a law that was passed, 18 U.S. Code § 700 - Desecration of the flag of the United States. section (d) of this law effectively gives SCOTUS jurisdiction over this law, as many others have stated.
(1) An appeal may be taken directly to the Supreme Court of the United States from any interlocutory or final judgment, decree, or order issued by a United States district court ruling upon the constitutionality of subsection (a).
(2) The Supreme Court shall, if it has not previously ruled on the question, accept jurisdiction over the appeal and advance on the docket and expedite to the greatest extent possible.

As a rule, burning of the flag under other circumstances from what is stated in 4 U.S. Code § 8, can be considered as "symbolic expression", which is legal, according to SCOTUS.

See http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does for more information.

For the U.S. flag code, see

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

What Does Free Speech Mean?

Among other cherished values, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech. Learn about what this means.

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Apr 20 at 2017 1:08 PM

2017-04-20T13:08:42-04:00

Yes.

Response by Sgt Mike Jacobi made Jun 19 at 2017 8:08 PM

2017-06-19T20:08:32-04:00

Sad to say that as angry as I am to see it, this is a right guaranteed by the first amendment. That's the legal part. The cultural reaction is that disrespecting my nations flag will result in my infliction of serious damage to the guilty sob that does it.

Response by MSgt Brian Potvin made Jun 20 at 2017 4:28 AM

2017-06-20T04:28:55-04:00

Yes...the First Amendment does protect that right. It's disgusting that someone would want to burn our Flag. However, people are free to do things that we think are disgusting. I am also free to let them know that I disagree with what they are doing.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Dec 31 at 2017 7:42 PM

2017-12-31T19:42:15-05:00

Those people may have the right to defilw, desecrate her but I have the duty and right to protect her.... and have done it..
I also served on burial details.. heve presented The Flag tofamily members
and passed to the Sr Noncom or offficer
Presenting to a family memvber..

Response by SSG Anthony Balkas made Jan 4 at 2018 6:22 PM

2018-01-04T18:22:57-05:00

Unfortunately the Supreme Court says it does so whatever your personal opinion is the point is mute.

Response by SrA Dan Heitschmidt made Sep 5 at 2018 2:10 AM

2018-09-05T02:10:46-04:00

They ought to be deported along with illegals.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 5 at 2018 8:11 AM

2018-09-05T08:11:54-04:00

You are missing the point here Joe. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree. That's why we have the first Amendment! It protects my right to free expression, and yours. Free speech is just that -a right to agree or disagree. Flag burning pisses me off. Knelling for the anthem pisses lots of people off --but the 1st Amendment guarantees those freedoms and ensures those people's rights just like mine.
The answer to your question is absolutely yes -the Supreme Court has resoundingly said so - burning the flag is protected political speech. But my point is that it's perfectly fine to say it's wrong and disagree. Just recognize their right to do that as well.

Response by Tom Robertson made Nov 20 at 2018 4:47 AM

2018-11-20T04:47:31-05:00

The flag is only a symbol
Never worship an idol
If it's your flag then do what you want
But you'll die if you come on to my property to defile my flag .
After all, it's my symbol