Do you agree that Today's US veterans are less educated, less healthy, less wealthy, and less employed than veterans 20 years ago?

2015-11-24T08:37:54-05:00

Do you agree that Today's US veterans are less educated, less healthy, less wealthy, and less employed than veterans 20 years ago?

I don''t agree with the less educated and I don't think surveys cover the whole veteran population we have now - What do you say RP Members?

http://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-are-worse-off-today-2015-11

Congress has been debating changes to the types of retirement benefits that veterans receive, including a switch to a corporate 401(k)-style plan.

According to researchers, however, reforms should consider the economic and health realities of veterans approaching retirement now.

Alan Gustman and Nahid Tabatabai of Dartmouth, along with Thomas Steinmeier of Texas Tech, broke down the economic and health outcomes for veterans age 51 to 56 in 1992, 1998, 2004, and 2010, measuring how the government's services have helped over time.

"Among those 51 to 56 in 1992, veterans were better educated, healthier, wealthier, and more likely to be working than nonveterans," said a new study. "By the 2010 cohort, 51- to 56-year-old veterans had lost their educational advantage over nonveterans, were less healthy, less wealthy and less likely to be working."

Using data from the "Health and Retirement Study," the researchers tracked outcomes, adjusting for rank, years of service, and a variety of other factors. (The findings were limited to male veterans, because female veterans in the data did not have a large enough sample to be reliable.)

In terms of service, the researchers pointed out that only the 2010 cohort had been a part of the All-Volunteer Military, instead of the Korean and Vietnam War drafts of the earlier cohorts.

This meant that a much lower number of the total population served (16% of the total male population in 2010 versus 50% in 1992) and a higher percent serving more than 10 years (13% in 2010 versus 8% in 1992).

In the outcomes for veterans over the age groups, a number of trends appear.

Education and health outcomes have worsened
In terms of education, the mean number of years in school has stayed the same for veterans (13.2 in 1992 to 13.4 in 2010), while the years for nonveterans has caught up (12.2 to 13.5). The percentage of veterans going to some college has also stayed fairly consistent (51% to 57%, with a peak in 2004 at 67%), while nonvets have again caught up (39% to 58%, with a peak in 2004 at 65%).

While nonveterans have caught up in education, they have lapped veterans in many other categories.

The percent of veterans who saw combat is the same between the 1992 and 2010 cohorts (18%), and leaped up for the 1998 and 2004 cohorts (34% and 33%, respectively), but the percentage of veterans on disability or with a health problem that limits work has steadily grown.

"While in the original HRS cohort, veterans were healthier than nonveterans, between the oldest and youngest cohorts, the health status of veterans age 51 to 56 deteriorated sharply relative to nonveterans," said the study.
Veterans are now much less prepared for retirement
Additionally, in light of the recent moves by Congress to address the military's retirement benefits, the researchers looked at wealth and savings for veterans as they approached retirement age.

Not only did the researchers find that younger veterans receive about half the amount in pensions from the military than their older counterparts, but there was also a reversal in veteran household wealth as compared to nonveterans.
Total wealth of veterans and nonveterans by HRS cohort.

So while newer retirement-age veterans have all been volunteers with roughly similar service demographics, they have worse health and wealth outcomes compared to older veteran peers and even nonveterans of their age group.

In the end, the researchers said they could not fully identify the reasons for the decline in positive outcomes for veterans, especially compared to nonveterans, and that these conclusions should factor into future policy decisions.

"Our findings suggest that policies meant to increase the benefits of veterans who are already retired should be designed differently and targeted separately for members of different cohorts," they concluded. "Veterans from the two oldest HRS cohorts are better prepared for retirement than nonveterans from those cohorts, and there is no difference when covariates are included in the regression. The problem arises for the youngest HRS cohort."

Today's US veterans are less educated, less healthy, less wealthy, and less employed than...

From wealth and retirement to health, aging veterans are much worse off than they were just 20 years ago.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Nov 24 at 2015 8:41 AM

2015-11-24T08:41:03-05:00

I submit that whoever wrote this article has no military experience. Coupled with my military retirement, VA disability, and 401(k) that I will receive once I reach retirement age, I will be MORE wealthy than my non-veteran/non-military retirees counterparts.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Nov 24 at 2015 8:44 AM

2015-11-24T08:44:15-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs in my opinion the Veteran is better off now than 20 years ago. Example, when I came in it was 75% tuition to 100 now. The pay is astronomical also compared to past years.
The Veteran just has to seize the opportunity. I left the military with good pay and a Masters Degree. The military served me well.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Nov 24 at 2015 8:48 AM

2015-11-24T08:48:39-05:00

If they are, it is of their own doing. There are more veteran benefits today than at just about any time in recent history. I can assure you veterans getting out 30 years ago (like me) would have loved to have the current GI Bill. The education alone can lead (not a given) to more wealth, health and employment options. It isn't the only way to do it but it is a huge opportunity to improve your lot in life.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Nov 24 at 2015 9:06 AM

2015-11-24T09:06:52-05:00

OH I dont know...Maybe 20 years ago in some ways. But then think back to the draft and compare those when it comes to education. I believe the education standards are tighter today but I also agree that there is more un-employment among todays Vets.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Nov 24 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-11-24T09:09:15-05:00

NO COL Mikel J. Burroughs I do not agree that today's USA military veterans are less educated, less healthy, less wealthy, and less employed than veterans 20 years ago.
First we need to focus on those who became veterans 20 years ago though this year and exclude those veterans from WWII, the Korean War and most Vietnam War veterans and many Desert Storm veterans because we would be double counting the veterans
In relation to the general population military veterans are proportionally as healthy, wealthy and employed as the general population if not more so.
I submit that military veterans today are more educated than they were 20 years ago.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Nov 24 at 2015 9:20 AM

2015-11-24T09:20:10-05:00

No. Like many headlines today, this one broadens and oversimplifies the results of a study. The Texas Tech study only looked at 51 to 56 year old veterans (at each snapshot of 1992, 98, 04, and 10), and then broadened the headline to "Today's Veterans...". First, their most recent data is nearly 6 years old, so calling it "Today" is really stretching it. Then, by saying "veterans" with no qualifier they imply ALL veterans, not just 51-56 year olds. Finally, the study shows 51-56 yr old veterans' education increased slightly over the period (13.2 years in 1992, 13.4 in 2010, and 51% some college in 92 to 57% in 2010) but then the news article claims the OPPOSITE: veterans are less educated. So the "less educated" claim is debunked by the very study the article cites! Ugh, piss poor journalism.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 24 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-11-24T09:29:59-05:00

No. I actually think today's veteran are better educated but struggle more for employment because of the dwindling veteran pool in middle and upper management. I do see a lot of older programs in state agencies to support veterans ignored, and the Federal government is so bloated and corrupt that I am sure the same exist there as well.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Nov 24 at 2015 10:03 AM

2015-11-24T10:03:16-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs This study only shows that non-veterans are performing better than in the past. I can't really draw any conclusions from this article and it provides no links to the background information. Seems like an author reaching for a conclusion, but a poorly structured set of proofs in the story.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Nov 24 at 2015 10:36 AM

2015-11-24T10:36:38-05:00

I see homeless Veterans once in awhile. Once I saw a Veteran with his prosthetic leg in front of him; on the sidewalk. I told him, rather than sitting on the sidewalk begging for money, he could be working....at a job where he did not need to use that prosthetic leg. I believe he was using his disability; rationalizing that that was his reason not to work.
I certainly cannot count myself among the aging (I am 64.) US Veterans that are: less educated (I have a B.A.), less healthy (I am in good health.), less wealthy (I am very comfortable; financially.), and less employed (I am a freelance photographer.)* than Veterans 20 years ago.
*I also volunteer my time.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Nov 24 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-11-24T10:45:16-05:00

I think vets today have much more education - the number of enlisted personnel with degrees is huge these days. But wealth and health are elusive, especially for the multi tour combat vets...

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Nov 24 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-11-24T11:14:45-05:00

I think they are better prepared, better treated, and have better opportunities available to them than 20 years ago. It's their choice to use what's available to them. 25 years ago there was nothing except a handshake and a certificate. Everything else was done on our own.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Nov 24 at 2015 11:30 AM

2015-11-24T11:30:41-05:00

Disagree, the military today is a technical monster, a "smart" Army. 20 years ago the military didn't have so many advances in technology and war fighting. In order to be promoted to anything higher than E6 a college degree not only looks good, it's almost necessary in order to reach the number of promotion points you need in most MOS's. I don't think the Vets and Soldiers of today are less healthy as much as the military has introduced "political correctness" and NCO's have lost the ability to actually train and condition Soldiers as they have before. Vets today are even more employable because of their technical skills they learned in the military, skills that weren't around 20 years ago...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-11-24T11:34:18-05:00

I agree with SFC Davis. We have so many people/organizations that truly care and have implemented great options!

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 24 at 2015 11:49 AM

2015-11-24T11:49:37-05:00

The biggest problem I have is that the composition of the veterans groups are not equal. The share of males who had served in the military has fallen from almost half in the older cohorts to just 16 percent of those in the 2010 cohort. Thus the authors are assuming ceteris paribus or that all things are remaining equal in their research. However I feel that there are to many independent variables that influence the dependent variables to formulate any real or true understanding of the variances between cohorts. With scientific modeling, simplifying assumptions permit illustration or elucidation of concepts thought relevant within the sphere of inquiry however I think the approach of creating a hypothetical isolation in this case is not valid or possible.

One example of how this is approach is flawed is with determining the risk aversion among the cohorts. They just assume that a kid raised post great depression saves money and invests the same way a kid raised post WWII does. As well they are overlaying a non-veteran element in their study. That is not an apple to apple comparison - more like apple to orange.

Just remember that 60% of all statistics prove nothing -

http://www.nber.org/papers/w21736.pdf

Declining Wealth and Work Among Male Veterans in the Health and Retirement Study

The composition, wealth and employment of male veterans and nonveterans are analyzed for four cohorts from the Health and Retirement Study, ages 51 to 56 in 1992, 1998, 2004 and 2010. Half of the men in the two oldest cohorts served in the military. Only 16 percent of the men in the youngest cohort, the only cohort subject to the All-Volunteer Military, served. One fifth to one third of the members of each cohort who served saw combat, mainly...

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Nov 24 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-11-24T12:00:59-05:00

YES. Can you imagine how large all military forces are now compared to 1967 when I enlisted? More men/woman more issues!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 24 at 2015 12:15 PM

2015-11-24T12:15:20-05:00

I can neither agree nor disagree. I don't have an independent study to compare to it. However, there is a ring of truth (or at least believability) to parts of it. Veterans suffer poorer health? That seems reasonable inasmuch as many have been deployed to lands where poor health is endemic. I, for example, returned with a case of malaria which my contemporaries who never left CONUS are unlikely to suffer. They are poorer educated? Not so believable inasmuch as veterans have education benefits that non-veterans don't enjoy, and after serving, I expect they have more maturity to take better advantage of their educational benefits. More likely to be unemployed? That sounds believable to me, especially in this economy. For example, my contemporaries had a six year head start on their careers while I served and it was a disadvantage that I suffered with when I finally rejoined the civilian job market. Also, surveys that say that veterans are in poorer health and are more poorly educated tend to prejudice employers against them, don't you think?

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Nov 24 at 2015 2:04 PM

2015-11-24T14:04:36-05:00

No way

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-11-24T14:43:11-05:00

No.....but the gap between those with and those without education is much wider, and the difference between the healthy and non-healthy is also much wide......seems sometimes you can tell how many times a guy deployed but looking at their education level and health.....anyway interesting question.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 24 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-11-24T14:46:07-05:00

Statically I think this could be a true statement but on the other hand I know many that have taken advantage of getting an education in and out of the military.

Response by COL Randy Alicea made Nov 24 at 2015 3:39 PM

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We are better now than our past war veterans of WWII, Korea and Vietnam in terms of we are educated, medical treatments are advance, better medications and support. But, it can be better specially for the many veterans out there that lost their mental "souls" and are homeless.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-11-24T16:57:12-05:00

I see it as half true.

Educational opportunities have improved and a lot of soldiers have done a great job taking advantage of that. At the same time there are soldier's who for a variety of reasons, are unable to take advantage of that opportunity and who leave the service skilled only in their military profession. That said, I believe veterans today are (on average) a little better equipped for civilian life than their counterparts in 1995. That part is not true.

Less Healthy on the other hand is true. We have been at war for 14 years and that takes a toll.

Less wealthy is also true, however this applies to the entire country and not just veterans. In 1995 a gallon of milk cost around $2.95 today in costs $3.50 an increase of almost 20%. Meanwhile median household income has only gone up about 5%. It's more difficult for median families to make ends meet than it was in 1995.

Unemployment today is about the same as it was in 1995, more attention is paid to the need to hire veterans... however at the same time some people are more afraid to hire veterans. Which probably means on average it's just as hard for a veteran to get a job.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 7:31 PM

2015-11-24T19:31:50-05:00

Today they're better educated but everything else seems on par sir.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Nov 24 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-11-24T20:04:25-05:00

I suspect it may be true. That was before the Tech Bubble and Housing Bubble Burst and we have yet to fully recover from those affects.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Nov 24 at 2015 9:54 PM

2015-11-24T21:54:26-05:00

I agree. Just look at the economy, the majority of jobs for anyone are minimum wage paying jobs. And a lot of people, still do not like Veterans. This is largely due to the "unpopularity" of the War on Terrorism. This is also due to the fact that several victims of PTSD have unfortunately taken the lives of others in moments captured on the news.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 25 at 2015 8:04 AM

2015-11-25T08:04:39-05:00

As with anything in life, it's about the choices you make. Most veterans are better educated and better off financially and healthwise. However, there are many who have not taking care of themselves financially or in a health situation or have failed to use the resources at their disposal to get an education.

Response by SGT William Howell made Nov 25 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-11-25T09:37:08-05:00

So ol' Bob that wrote this has never served a day in his life in the military. (I checked him out.) I like to refer to this style of reporting as "Talking out your ass." It is where you regurgitate numbers about something you know nothing about and then use them to make an argument without putting any thought into it. Yet, someone who has the least bit of knowledge realizes they are full of BS.

I see what he is stating, but it is entirely flawed. We were in an economic boom from 1992 to 2004. Everybody was doing better not just vets. People had money to go to college. The American people were all richer. Again, not just vets. In 2010 we were in a depression, everybody had lost jobs, companies were downsizing.

Now to healthy, America as a whole is unhealthier, not just vets. Our lifestyle has changed as a society . We are fatter and lazier than we have ever been before. In 1992 we did not even have a cell phone. It we wanted to know an answer we went to the library and looked it up. That required actually physically moving. Those days are gone.

If you were to place non-vets right next to vets and looked at all the items the author is trying to compare to you would see a direct collation to America as a whole other than just veterans. The trend would be the same for both. There is not a veteran issue here at all, just piss poor reporting.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Nov 25 at 2015 9:51 AM

2015-11-25T09:51:05-05:00

I don't want to sound bad but private Vigilante might want to change his name to Smith.

Walt

Response by MSG Timothy Smith made Nov 25 at 2015 10:28 AM

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The wealth part of the equation lends itself to employment. With all the White House talk about hiriing Veterans, it seems to me that an abundance of employers are shying away from doing that. My guesstament is that with all the deployments over the past decade and a half, employers are afraid of having a walking time bomb on their hands. I know that with the past three years of searching under my belt, in areas that I more than qualify in, at institutions that claim to be military friendly, I either get a "Dear John" letter, or hear nothing back at all. So yes, I agree on the wealth side of the question. Education-I came out with a Masters in Health Services Administration. So I don't think I am less educated.

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Nov 25 at 2015 8:50 PM

2015-11-25T20:50:10-05:00

In 2009 we had a global economic crisis. The study compares service members from 2010 to 1992 . If you were getting out before 2010, I can buy the study. But, we had been to war a long time by 2010. The study is comparing peace time to war time veterans. I can twist any data to state a fact. Correlation is not causation. I am working on a doctorate. When I went to residencies, I was amazed at how many active duty service members were there. The sad thing is no one will do another study on this because it does not compare apples to apples. I must admit to not seeing the original study. The date of 1992 to 2010 compares pre 9/11 to post 9/11. All I saw was Americans answering the call to serve.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Nov 26 at 2015 12:47 AM

2015-11-26T00:47:24-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - My father served in the Army from 1961 to 1964 and joined before he got drafted. After the military he pumped gas, got married to his first wife, had two kids and seven years later went into law enforcement because he wanted to do it since he was a kid (later saw an article from when he was in the paper at ten years old and was involved with something like police explorers) and this one deputy who kept bugging him when he filled his squad car up.

It was rare for someone to take classes when he joined. In fact when he was law enforcement, many deputies he worked with were former military. Two of his best friends served in the Marines, and Sheriff who appointed my dad a detective was a frogman in the Navy. Nowadays there is still a lot of former military that is in law enforcement but the number is much lower. I want to say a heck of a lot more people were prior military - I'd have to ask my dad.

Fast forwarding many years...I know of someone who joined the Army in the late 70's or 80's (I really want to say mid 80's) and joined under this enlistment program/option to get his GED or High School diploma (forgot) but I know he later retired from the Army and last I knew was doing decently.

Do I think we are better educated, more healthy and wealthy? Yes. I made more $$$ (adjusted for inflation) than my father did at the same rank and was able to go far with that money. Not at the same time mind you, and not anything crazy, but I was able to buy two new cars and paid one of them off two years early (could have done the other car too if I put more $$$ a month a side) and when my father was in, one would struggle to get a VW Bug used a couple of years old. I was able to save about 9 months worth of savings at the same time. I was able to get married. I got married and we had four grand we were able to put in a joint savings account after the fact. I was also able to put money aside, etc. I got an associates and took classes towards a bachelors (12 classes away
), and got good health care when I needed it.

Less employed, YES! I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that less people in business or even government even serve these days who make the big decisions and/or know anything about the military.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Nov 26 at 2015 1:18 AM

2015-11-26T01:18:29-05:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. I don't know about 20 years ago, that was looooong after my time in service. The Post WW II conscripted Army was very different the the Army of today. As far as education I believe if you read the statistics the average draftee had about two years on average more education then todays volunteer Army. Draftees who used a college deferment went into the military after college graduation, for two years. With out a doubt the enlistee of 50 years ago was in far better physical condition the enlisting soldier of today. The cute PT uniforms and the debate of black socks or not is not what the US Army was all about. There was no PT uniform, your wore fatigues and often a steel pot, web gear and M-14 at port arms. Wealth. A Pvt. E-1 made $78.00 a months before they took out the $18.25 for your mandatory savings bond. Specialist 4th. Under two years Class made $121.00 a month before deducts. In the combat arm units of the Army the enlisted had only one mission, to kill the enemy. All of our training and deployment preparation was focused on killing the enemy. The ROE: were if you killed them they were VC, if you wounded them they were VC suspects. needless to say taking POW's unless ordered to so was not of a high priority in the bush.

Response by SGT Robert R. made Nov 26 at 2015 9:14 AM

2015-11-26T09:14:45-05:00

In my opinion, our newest veterans have more aid offered to them. Unfortunately, I think a lot of veterans today do NOT know where to turn for assistance. I think the non-profits do a poor job of working with the different branches of service to let those who are leaving service know where they can turn.

As far as employment, the last statistics show that the current vet may be the most unemployed, followed by the WWII and Vietnam era vet. The vet from 20 years ago (which is my era) is the most employed and driving the overall veteran unemployment rate down. However, doesn't that seem logical that my generation is the most employed? We are in our late 30s to late 50s. We were in the military when the economy was strong, the country loved the military (after they learned who horrible they treated our Vietnam brothers and sisters), and that gave us some opportunities that the former and latter veteran haven't been able to "take advantage of".

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/veteran-unemployment-decreases-in-2014.htm

Veteran unemployment rate decreases to 5.3 percent in 2014 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of...

The unemployment rate for veterans who served on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces at any time declined by 1.3 percentagepoints from 2013 to 2014. In 2013 the rate was 6.6 percent, in 2014, 5.3 percent.

Response by SGM Ray Whitaker made Nov 26 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-11-26T10:01:29-05:00

Agree with SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL regarding education. Lots of opportunities and as long as leaders and pushing their soldiers to develop themselves, they are not less educated. I would go so far to say from a leadership/making decisions type education most will be defined as over educated.

Healthy is an interesting question. Not being healthy is a national problem but one the military does a good job of trying to combat. Not saying the military is perfect, but service members have a reason to stay lean and mean.

Unemployment is an issue and would have to argue it will continue to be. I think last time I looked it was 17% of veterans are unemployed (don't quote me). Everyone wants that percentage to be zero but that is probably a bit difficult to obtain. It is only a problem if the veterans allow it. All veterans bring something to the table but they have to take initiative to get employment.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Nov 26 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-11-26T12:00:07-05:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Sir, I cannot pretend to have any empirical data to support my hypothesis; however, I believe the education benefits are better, but with extended deployments many younger Soldiers (now Veterans) have not had the time or taken the time during deployments to obtain the education that they could have. The shrink in the economy seems to have lowered entry level salaries, median incomes, and career and or status bonuses. With more combat veterans comes more injury, illness, and a decline in overall health. Consequently, I must agree with the assertion made in the article presented. As we transition to a peace time military again or sustain the smaller deployed Global War on Terrorism, more troops should be in a garrison environment and the education and health piece should trend in a more positive direction.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 26 at 2015 1:24 PM

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I'm a graduate systems person who hasn't seen much valid statistical surveys or studies, especially political and social. That's because the assumptions made up front are faulty, and are known to be faulty, but they go ahead with it anyways. The big thing that's missed is the demographics of the veteran pool at any given time and what creates it. We have some similarities today to post 'Nam where you have a higher percentage of lower ENLs who have high school, got banged up, and then discarded back in the states. So the "starting point" is all over the board as well as the handicaps. Yes the programs to help out are better now but to a large extent the Vet needs to take advantage of them. Some don't, hence part of the higher suicide rate vs. the norm. So conflicts means we discharge a higher percentage of lower grades vs. resignations and FTS releases in times of less conflicts.
Just looking at the numbers, there isn't enough statistical difference with education to bounce against the different demographics, hence invalid conclusions. They are taking snapshots and trying to make something of them.
I always wonder if this type of "analysis" might have been backed into. You decide an answer and then look for data sets that would support it, discarding everything else or stopping if you hit one you like. That's what the political/social types do.
So the other thing missing is the "so what?" piece. That would be what should be the next drill downs to see if there's anything really valid as all you have now are possible indicators. So that points to the up front faulty assumption. They assumed the data sets they surveyed would tell them something concrete. It didn't.

Response by CPT David Bock made Nov 26 at 2015 6:05 PM

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I am not sure if they are looking at the same slice of the population I am. I am a Vietnam veteran who got a couple of degrees (Engineering and Management) with the VA education benefits. Most of my friends from the 'Nam got BA or BS degrees with a good number getting MA and MS degrees and a several of my buddies from over there getting PHD degrees from Harvard, MIT, and UCLA. I left as a young Captain with the BSM and MSM. The VA takes full care of me and my wife as well. I do see some of the more recent soldiers I know having problems integrating into the education system, however. I was a mustang and did push hard to get where I am but understand that often enough a helping hand from other older veterans helps a lot. Reach out to them like the WWII and Korean War veterans did with me. The younger ones still need our guidance and leadership. Perhaps we, as veterans ourselves, are not doing what I consider our life long duty to our fellow brothers and sisters of war. Just my nickel's worth. Captain David Bock, RVN 1969-1970.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-11-26T18:30:08-05:00

Not sure what to make of this. If anyone has less education it is his or her own fault. I've known men who entered with only GED and eventually retired with Masters. And given that so many civilian young adults today graduate with increasingly WORTHLESS undergrad degrees, perhaps we should re-evaluate the value of the traditional baccalaureat degree unless it also carries some type of certifying exam/licensure requiremt. I've lost count of the E4 troops who've entered with dubious degrees in philosophy or other liberal arts who bemoaned their inability to land a job and thus had to join up. Lotsa businesses will provide franchisees all the training needed to successfully launch into a variety of good jobs but certainly not all of us are destined to be entrepreneurs even though small businesses continue to create most of the new jobs in our economy.
There was recently a clip on social media of an alleged 8yr USMC veteran. He was working as a fast food fry cook at KFC and demanding $15/hr. He likely chose a bad MOS. For instance in the US navy sailors who study nuclear reactors can generally get work with the power utility companies. Navy trained electricians also do well. USAF civil engineering squadron airmen could easily parlay that MOS experience into lotsa good jobs. The real problem is dearth of journeyman trades for married with kids recently discharged veterans.
Entry level food service jobs are never going to offer as much in pay and benefits as an 8yr E6 takes home. The men who've done HR work in the S1 shop are always shocked at how low HR pay is in civilian organizations. Off duty troops should start googling and learning what they can do, where they wish to do it and how much the pay will be. This is even more urgent a leadership priority in the upcoming time of drawdowns, RIF etc. But good luck ordering anyone to plan for his future if his longrange planning doesnt extend beyond Fri night or next pay day.

Response by SGT Rob Davidson made Nov 26 at 2015 8:30 PM

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No we just have those who never served in charge of employment..we're more and better trained then they ever could be..

Response by MSgt Chad Bunch made Nov 26 at 2015 9:02 PM

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I would agree less healthy, but not less educated!! Since Vetnam to current we have been exposed to more chemicals and vaccines that has deteriorated our health! My grandfather lived till 94 and my dad a Nam vet lived till 52 and I have seen vets my age die of crap that no body knows the cause!

Response by PFC Juyius Jackson made Nov 26 at 2015 10:26 PM

2015-11-26T22:26:23-05:00

Twenty years ago how many of those vets careers were totally focused on war. Different Military different era. Unemployment is an affect of the economy and stigma of the many combat vets of today. Plus their are more of us post 9/11 vets than gulf war or Grenada or Panama. Not a fair comparison.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2015 2:17 AM

2015-11-27T02:17:40-05:00

My answer is depends on who you are. Cohorts of the past did not need an education to be an officer. I recall my BN XO had an AA degree. For at least the last 20 years, You had to have 90 units of college to get into OCS and a BA degree if you were ROTC. You did not make past 1LT with the Degree. We have the APFT 2 times a year. Those who score highly get on the Order of Merit list to get the schools etc.. Most of you know this already. I know NCOs who have degrees and they did not want to be officers. So as far as education in the USAR and the ARNG I see today's reserve component being more educated and after the long war we all should have at least 2 deployments.

The ravages of war have taken toll on many of us with PTSD and being injured by our service in the military and the mental health issues that some face from Combat. It is sad that some reports have veterans having a 16 percent unemployment. This is where the less wealthy come in. If they have mental issues, they often are too messed up or afraid to get help. Some resort to addictions wether it be drugs, alcohol and often wind up on the street or in jail. Some even kill themselves and/or get killed by others.
Today, Thansgiving, we need to keep an eye on our buddy who all of a sudden gives away his belongings and who talks about wishing he were dead. The ACE http://www.army.mil/article/44579/ace-suicide-prevention-program-wins-national-recognition/
stands for Ask, Care and Escort. When in doubt help your buddy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2015 7:38 AM

2015-11-27T07:38:27-05:00

There are way too many resources for Soldiers theses days which leaves no excuse as to why they can not or have not received an education. I am near the end of my first college degree and plan to use every dollar the Army gives me to further my education. As for money, it is still rough raising a family in the economy today, but this gives the Soldier the step they need to do the right things and get themselves promoted. The incentive is there, they just have to want it and be willing to work for it. And who doesn't want a free education?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2015 9:59 AM

2015-11-27T09:59:06-05:00

I don't agree. I think Soldiers are facing a uniquely different set of circumstances than soldiers faced in the past. Each timeframe has it's own political and economic differences and each individual has his or her own special circumstances to deal with.

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Nov 28 at 2015 8:44 AM

2015-11-28T08:44:49-05:00

While I would tend to agree with SFC Joe S. Davis Jr, I believe this is pretty subjective. I consider myself to be very fortunate when compared with what I see many other veterans are having to endure these days. Maybe I just managed to get in and out at the right time or something...who knows. I don't believe the opportunities for self-improvement have waned at all, I think it is quite the opposite, really. However, many of those opportunities I was able to take advantage of have probably become more difficult to attain with the number of deployments modern day servicemen and women are faced with in this modern military. When I was a Detachment Commander in Germany, one of my E-4's was able to apply himself for the duration of his assignment to going to college at night and over the course of his 3 years left our unit with a Bachelor's Degree through the University of Maryland...most all of his credits were earned during this assignment. We were not on a rotating deployment schedule, either, which facilitated this. I think much of it also boils down to individual determination in spite of everything else. One very important factor is determining which career field to try to get into. The one I chose proved to be very beneficial for me after my service was completed because there was a demand for my skills on the outside. Not that any one career field is any more or less important than the rest, but there ARE certain considerations which have to be weighed in order to decide which path would be most beneficial to you after you take off the uniform. If you are only in it for the educational benefits, then that is no big issue, but clearly you benefit most when you choose a career field in which you can not only obtain some very valuable training and experience, but you can also become better educated along those lines, and hopefully your skill set will be in demand when all is said and done. And you have to convince yourself that NOTHING comes easy, and nothing comes free, and you have to be willing to bust your hump to arrive at your goal.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Nov 28 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-11-28T11:11:18-05:00

I believe it's opposite. I think more vets are more educated now then long ago. There is much more educational opportunities for VETS these days than just 20 years ago.....they pay for active duty is much better now then it was 20 years ago and I think Vets have much more opportunities than they used to.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2015 11:16 AM

2015-11-28T11:16:36-05:00

Disagree! One thing I notice is recruiters need to do a better job to get good prospects to the military not to fill a quota there is a lot of young and cool soldiers in the military these days. Some do not take the Armed Forces mission seriously. Others just live in the moment not thinking about the future and what they should be doing to accomplish the most or to reach the highest they can go. They do not considering much of what they sign in for , but what they can get from it. In reality there is a lot of changes among the FORCES. I think The Armed Forces need to change the recruitment rules the other thing is since we are the 1% that makes it sound as if it is not that of importance to serve our country. New generations looking to join and do bigger things...in other Corporations...and not much interest to be part of the 1%. I just saying...Need more pride! Like our past generations. Another thing they are cutting, so much on retirement and other benefits for our military.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Nov 28 at 2015 11:23 AM

2015-11-28T11:23:42-05:00

I don't think vets are less educated, maybe a bit less healthy and definitely have a hard job situation. I think there are more groups now to help vets then there were 20 years ago, more of a safety net, but its hard there are alot of vets who need help.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 28 at 2015 11:26 PM

2015-11-28T23:26:57-05:00

The people in the military represent changing demographics and they are a cross section of our society. People in our society today tend not to work as hard, score lower and achieve less. Consequently they find themselves more unemployed. It should therefore come as no surprise to see the same happening in our military.

Response by SSG David Dickson made Nov 29 at 2015 2:10 AM

2015-11-29T02:10:18-05:00

If so, I think it is more a reflection of society in general as opposed to exclusively a Veterans' issue. As our force today, almost without exception has a high school diploma upon initial entry, that is a difficult point to prove. General standard of living, unemployment as it is, it's sad that it happens to 1 of our men and women who served, but it is by no means exclusive to them.

Response by SFC Robert Wheeler made Dec 15 at 2015 8:52 PM

2015-12-15T20:52:21-05:00

"Veterans from the two oldest HRS cohorts are better prepared for retirement than nonveterans from those cohorts, and there is no difference when covariates are included in the regression. The problem arises for the youngest HRS cohort." An interesting study but I would need to see the original source and accompanying data. My gut tells me the study is flawed and not representative of older veterans facing retirement. I would guess based on casual observation, that most of the older cohort would strongly disagree with the idea they are better prepared for retirement. Especially following the last 8 years of economic down turns and mass job losses especially among the older cohort whose ability to be reemployed at the same level they were at disappeared and many have not returned to the job market.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-12-24T21:23:12-05:00

Service in the armed forces for today's military offers thing such as the Post 9/11 GI Bill, Vocational Rehab and VA home loans. It is up the service member/retiree/Veteran to seize those opportunities.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 22 at 2016 2:43 PM

2016-01-22T14:43:57-05:00

Education? wait ...what the Kardashians are on... wait what was the question? SIGH

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 22 at 2016 2:47 PM

2016-01-22T14:47:44-05:00

No!

Response by SGT Christopher Premore made Jan 22 at 2016 4:29 PM

2016-01-22T16:29:28-05:00

I don't know about the educated part since there are a lot of education paths open to today's Veterans. I do think it is harder to find good employment options for today's vets.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jan 22 at 2016 5:18 PM

2016-01-22T17:18:21-05:00

Unfortunate, but I suspect it is quite true. The Programs that were put in Place after WWII are not there anymore to get them to the same point. Veterans as a Percentage of the Population is much smaller and we have become "Disposable" like to much of things anymore and few people are willing to give us anymore than Lip Service. Put a Magnet on the Bumper. Put a little money in the Buddy Poppy Can and Hope and Pray that it makes a dent in the Problem. It took Massive Gov't Intervention and Investment with those WWII Vets to make them successful following the War and it will probably take it again.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 22 at 2016 5:52 PM

2016-01-22T17:52:38-05:00

This is more to my liking than a couple of dweebs that may or may no have our best interest in mind.

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/tanks-and-humvees-caps-and-gowns

Today’s military: A well-educated force

It's Memorial Day, when Americans take the day to honor the sacrifices of the military. The US military is often thought of as the "best and the brightest" - and the numbers definitely hold up on "brightest."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 4:55 PM

2016-01-23T16:55:35-05:00

On average I believe more veterans are better educated, and have a better chance at landing a good job in their field. They have more access to the GI Bill if they choose to go back to school. Veterans are first in line to get a job than others because of their time in service serving our country.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jan 24 at 2016 2:20 PM

2016-01-24T14:20:16-05:00

I agree with what most everyone said. My only point is on the education . . . are they less educated today? I guess that depends on what measure you are using. A high school diploma does not mean the same thing it once did. As a retired teacher, I spent the past 20 years fighting against the lowering of the standards just to increase the number of graduates. It is no wonder so many do not make it past their first year in college. In my area, the State mandated "end-of-course exam" only required a 30% as a passing grade for "mastery." I personally think that it is a shame we have done this.

On the other hand, if any of you have the stats for the average GT/ASVAB tests over the years, it might prove to be a better measurement.

I also would like to respond briefly to educational benefits. I received my college education under the old GI Bill. Not only did it pay for my tuition and books, but it also was enough to pay for my rent and gas for my car. Educational costs have soured since the early 1980s and it seems that the educational benefits have not kept pace with inflation.

I am not sure how to respond to the health issues. I remember reading back in 70s that the average military retiree collected only for a brief 7 years. I found that hard to believe, but military life does take a toll on its members. Those that make a career out of the military may be sacrificing their health, but I am very satisfied with my health benefits. I now have TriCare for Life as a suppliment to my Medicare, very low cost medications from Express Scripts and the VA, a VA doctor and a civilian doctor, and I am having all my needs met by both. I even get vision care from my local VA clinic (get free exams, but I buy my glasses on the civilian market). I ended up with problems with my feet and the VA now gives me a free set on inserts for my arches and a free pair of shoes every year. I have to be careful about what I say. If I mention any small ache or pain, I am given another appointment at the VA hospital for exams, x-rays, sonograms, etc. I hear a lot about the problems with the VA, but my experience has been absolutely outstanding.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-01-25T13:20:50-05:00

I don't think they're less educated but I do think there are more educational benefits today then there were 20 years ago. I also feel veterans from 20 years ago learned more through experience than they did from formal education.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-01-27T17:04:14-05:00

No, Yes, Yes, Yes. Vets are usually better educated and prepared, however things have also gotten a whole heck of a lot harder than they were 20 years ago... which means that despite being better educated and prepared, we are still less wealthy and less employed than we were 20 years ago. The wars have also taken a toll and on average I believe US veterans are dealing with more health issues than we did 20 years ago.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 9:25 PM

2016-01-27T21:25:15-05:00

The Veteran today is better off than those of "yesteryears". The problem is the American society of today that believes more in receiving than giving. Is the sample used in this research a true representation of today's veteran population? Is it targeting a specific group of veterans and then generalizing to the rest of the post "9-11" veteran population?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 3:28 PM

2016-02-10T15:28:38-05:00

With todays benefits for the military I highly doubt it. If that is the case then I think its of no one's fault but their own. I take advantage of all I can. You gotta ask questions.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2017 1:54 AM

2017-09-01T01:54:30-04:00

I think that today's veterans are more educated than twenty years ago. I also think that they are doing better financially (as a whole) than that peer group. As far as employment and health are concerned, I honestly can't say. Some of my family left the military in the 70s, 80s and 90s... I think that the employment opportunities today are just fewer in general though that seems to be coming around.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2020 10:06 AM

2020-05-16T10:06:44-04:00

The disgruntled, maladjusted veteran has been a myth since the 60s. Mostly Hollywood and posers. Our Vietnam era brothers and sisters came back and took advantage of the GI Bill at a much higher rate then the WWII /Korean War era guys. The studies are out there.
I have been doing criminal defense for 20yrs. You would not believe the number of “veterans“ that I see in the courts coming in with thrift store uniforms and stories. Until I mention a DD214 or a few details and the story changes.
Once saw a guy missing an eye with a high and tight, USMC tshirt etc. and a very good story about his service, boot camp, combat injuries, etc. he had been scamming the system for years, pan handling and telling stories. The judge released him based on his service and injuries. A month later he came in with his cousin’s DD214 with same name , different birthday. And this time, it said Air Force.
Most veterans are doing very well.
I did my bit, stayed in the reserves and got out while in law school. Most of us are doing very well.