Do you believe in giving a soldier the option of their corrective action (situation dependent), counseling vs. corrective training?

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:05:51 -0500

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 4:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:24:26 -0500

Good question, however, the reality of it is that you always, at a minimum, need to document the ''screw up.'' Always, always, always, counsel the soldier, then take it from there. It's a lot of paperwork, but you are covering yourself. All depends on what you as the supervisor believes deserves a counseling. As many before me, I always give a verbal on the first violation (of course depends on the severity of the violation), a counseling on the second and most likely a corrective action, however on the third there will be some major ''mentoring'' and corrective action. As NCO's and Officers, you need to understand that minor offenses (sleeping in, etc) do and will happen. We are human beings and in no way, perfect. It all depends on the situation. If a soldier misses muster right before a deployment or field problem, then their butt is in for a kicking. Catch my drift?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 4:32 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:32:38 -0500

Depending on the infraction and the severity of, I may or may not ask the SM for what they feel their corrective training should be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 4:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:51:30 -0500

Oh,, and remember. You are ''setting the tone'' for your section, team, etc. If you are chill and uncaring about certain things, no matter how dumb they may seem, then don't expect your soldiers to be that perfect example of a soldier. Try to see yourself in their boots.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Nov 13 at 2017 6:17 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:17:38 -0500

My $.02- You always counsel on paper 1st. Because it is a protection for all involved. Part of the corrective action should be that within a certain time period if they stay straight- that counseling goes to file 13. Corrective training should match the crime- inspections on weekends, layouts, field training- all done on what would have been their time, not unit time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 6:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:18:29 -0500

Mind you I'm a young NCO, however what the SSG are saying is what I've been taught and what I use. I generally give a warning before the paperwork, depending on the situation. I have also become a fan of essays. I give my soldiers an explanation of what they've done wrong and assign them a short essay regarding that subject and the negative effects it has on not just them but unit cohesion. I normally try to correct the issue a my level, but if the trend continues I will kick it to my FLL, with my paperwork and their essays.

Response by 1LT Kevin Chapman made Nov 14 at 2017 2:15 AM

1LT Kevin Chapman — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:15:24 -0500

I'm sure the words of a PFC won't really mean much, but man I honestly believe corrective training works more efficiently. And I say that eluding to certain circumstances. If the service-member has done something horribly wrong or repeatedly, yes a counseling would be more effective. I remember an accident in AIT where one Saturday morning my roommate and I overslept and did not go to morning chow because we figured we could just go grab lunch while on pass, and we ended up getting written up with a counseling statement. And that same week we were smoked by our Platoon Sergeant and safe to say that squared PFC Chapman away. People mess up and sometimes it takes a hot and sweaty pt session to clear up any confusion. If the individual is a habitual offender then a counseling would definitely be necessary. But don't quote me, I'm just a private that doesn't know anything :).

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Nov 14 at 2017 10:20 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 10:20:58 -0500

Highly dependent on the situation, but I wouldn't say its always a bad way to address an issue. I tried it once--or should say I attempted to--for a minor issue regarding one of my soldiers, but my platoon sergeant thought it better for me to slap a counseling on the matter rather than go old-school and be done with it.

Response by SGT David T. made Nov 14 at 2017 12:50 PM

SGT David T. — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:50:45 -0500

I would put everything on paper. However, I kept two counseling packets. One was for the 1SG that I provided monthly. Usually, that one had just the monthly counseling, promotion board counseling and anything related to UCMJ action I was pushing for. The other packet was the full record. If they behaved, those counseling statements never saw the light of day. If they did not, then I had a sufficient paper trail to back up whatever action needed to be taken.

I have obtained input on what they deemed appropriate corrective training would be. This helped to mentor them for when they became leaders and see what the thought process was behind it.

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 14 at 2017 3:47 PM

SPC David Willis — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:47:03 -0500

It all depends, younger soldiers will probably opt for less painful punishments where as guys who know better would opt for some momentary suck. Not every screw up needs to be documented and follow them around for the rest of their career. I messed up plenty as a private and the smoke sessions I received were way more of a deterrent than paper counseling, it also had the added benefit of making me stronger. Although Im not sure if rolling around on rocks and doing pushups on the hot stones under the Iraqi sun would be acceptable these days haha.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2017 5:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:09:21 -0500

As stated by most everyone else, documentation is a vital part of discipline. You can’t say patterns of misconduct without proof. *BUT* my colleagues are strong proponents of the idea that if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Anybody aware they’re in the wrong should be very unhappy about what they did.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2018 5:38 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 05:38:56 -0500

This is a real life scenario for me. At my current duty assignment, we are 99% seniors, both AD, AGR and TPUs. Until recently, my section had 2 (myself included) senior NCOs and a lot of civilians. We now have 2 jr. NCOs called to AD for a specific mission. Because I'm leaving soon, my battle buddy is there direct line. We have 1 soldier that likes to dip. This was brought to my attention by one if the retired civilians there. When i first saw it for myself, i said something to him about it. Maybe he wasn't aware of the policy for using any type of tobacco products within buildings or maybe he didn't get that email reminder. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. But, after i saw this same action again, i reminded him yet again. Now, if this happens again, i will have a talk with his first line right before i put this in writing, as well as give corrective training. Although he isn't the only person that does this, he has been informed 3 times, and now i see it as utter disrespect, and this needs to be addressed in a formal situation. He won't have a say in either the counseling or corrective training, as he has clearly already made a choice to keep doing what he wants despite me correcting him. So no, no choice for him. I know its a long post, but just my 2 cents.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2018 9:07 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:07:19 -0400

A smoking is far better than getting counseled.