Do you believe that select trained School faculty can carry a concealed weapon to protect the school?

2018-02-23T10:34:09-05:00

Recently at the Florida shooting, we found out that the Broward County Sheriff assigned to the school did not go into the school or try to intervene during the school shooting. Governor Brown of California in 2018 has made it illegal for School faculty having a concealed weapon aside from sworn officers. All I hear on NPR is no no no! PBS NewsHour debated this with NRA students. What do you think?

Response by Maj William W. 'Bill' Price made Feb 23 at 2018 10:45 AM

2018-02-23T10:45:49-05:00

Yes, LTC Private RallyPoint Member. And all schools need an active shooter protocol (that may or may not include active shooter drills). IMHO.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 10:46 AM

2018-02-23T10:46:16-05:00

My geography teacher in middle school was a Major in the military and our Cadet Corps Commander. I'm sure there are many teachers who had military or police experience in the past. I'm sure there are teachers who would not mind training to defend themselves in the case of an active shooter situation. It seems like on TV, the leadership of the teachers union is acting like the sky is falling if they actually have to show responsibility. It sickens me and makes me laugh at the same time! I'm sure there are enough volunteer teachers. I'm not saying to force teachers to be the enforcers on campus. Seems like some of these teachers were raised in Haight-Ashbury(the place where hippies and Beatniks started their druggie flower-power movement in the mid 1960s)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 10:46 AM

2018-02-23T10:46:53-05:00

If I was a credentialed teacher and I also had a CCL then I'd like to have that "Choice". I would want the responsibility to be on me to be first an educator and second a trained marksman. Trained in defense, not in kicking down doors and reducing the threat. I would stick to the known and rehearsed security plan set forth by the school administration. Having individuals that carry concealed to me is not an issue. Having untrained or less than enthusiastic educators form into a rapid response fire team to kick in doors and neturalize a threat is being portrayed by the MSM now and that is an issue.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 10:48 AM

2018-02-23T10:48:16-05:00

One recurring theme is that these shootings very commonly occur in "gun free zones". The deterrence factor that there just might be someone to give a perp immediate reprisals for their actions is profound. I think it is plausible and should be considered that teachers with proper training be allowed to carry.
However, there isn't a chance in hell that teacher unions accept this, for multiple reasons.
If we are to add an armed response presence to schools, it will likely have to come in the form of a contracted police officer or armed security guard - which is really expensive to implement.
Notably, in the case down in Florida, the Deputy who had that job cravenly "took up a position" outside rather than go in and attempt to deal with the shooter. Now he has police protecting his house. This guy is a yellow, craven, useless, coward who deserves all the scorn in the world.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 10:54 AM

2018-02-23T10:54:03-05:00

LTC Private RallyPoint Member Someone trained with a weapon could stop theses scumbags in their tracks. As long as they qualify with the weapon, teachers should be allowed to carry. If I had become a teacher, I am highly confident that I could successful confront and stop one of these scumbags. Allow teachers the choice.

Response by SPC David S. made Feb 23 at 2018 10:58 AM

2018-02-23T10:58:22-05:00

While I like the idea I think this is far outside most teachers skill set. Not saying these individuals don't know how to use firearms but more so securing perimeters and such. I really think this should be left either LEO and or other contractors. I feel there is a large number of vets with the appropriate training and experience to handle school security (this is a good business model). I don't think anyone even in an altered state of mind would try to go up against a squad of fully loaded out individuals.

Things I have observed - part of the problem is that people have figured out schools are "soft" targets as well how these events are sensationalized via the news.

What I fear is that such hardening measures could have possible blow back. If you harden the targets this may result in the unhinged to resort to more drastic kinetic measures like using a car bomb. Very similar to 911 - tried to blow it up using car bombs - that got locked down which resulted in using aircraft as a delivery method.

Response by TSgt Joe C. made Feb 23 at 2018 11:17 AM

2018-02-23T11:17:07-05:00

I do think there needs to be armed teachers/faculty in all schools LTC Private RallyPoint Member! More training for active shooter as well....sad as it is to say that though.

Response by SP5 Peter Hawkins made Feb 23 at 2018 11:19 AM

2018-02-23T11:19:47-05:00

I have thought about this for as long as I have been teaching, and I observe that very few teachers have the right mindset to carry. Being trusted with a weapon in public places requires regular, rigorous training and a personal commitment to use the weapon if and only if needed. I teach weapons handling, and I like to think I can be trusted to carry, but even I can't get as much training as I would like.
My thoughts on this could fill an essay, but I'll spare you. The best classroom defense I have found is a can of wasp spray; a faceful of that will stop any shooter.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 11:27 AM

2018-02-23T11:27:04-05:00

I'm absolutley for it. People are uncomfortable with change, but this is the way society is. As long as the individuals are trained properly, then there should be no issue.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 23 at 2018 11:37 AM

2018-02-23T11:37:43-05:00

Apparently there were 3 trained Police Officers who didn't think they could

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 11:38 AM

2018-02-23T11:38:42-05:00

To be clear - I come from an older generation. I was born in May 1950 - we did not have video games or computerized social media - we had black and white TV - with mostly calm and peaceful shows of amateurish quality on the tube. Long rifles and guns were no big deal - but they were primarily boys toys - and city girls were generally discouraged from learning to shoot. All that changed for me when I joined the Army as a nurse and volunteered to be shipped off to Vietnam. I still work for the government and routinely carry as an part of my job - as well as for self protection and the protection of others. I have also been invited to teach classes at all levels from elementary school to graduate school - and would worry about the potential number of kids killed under circumstances of personal threat that may escalate in the classroom because a less than totally in self control teacher reached for a weapon when things got out of hand but not deadly. Do I believe a teacher could intervene in gang violence or unruly and threatening students with a weapon drawn - I certainly believe so. But, on the other side schools and their owners - mostly cities - would be confronted with massive civil and criminal liability for the armed response of their teachers in any other than active shooter incidents. And I am not merely suggesting teachers are the risk - what about students who either quietly steal a teacher's weapon - or who disarm the teacher - and turn the weapon on other students. My feeling is adding 700,000 loaded weapons to the classroom may create far more risk than risks we have seen in the few absolutely horrible school shooting incidents to date. The shootings we have seen to date are horrible - but the risk of sending 700,000 or any substantial number of weapons into schools other than with armed peace officers - would create a more risky situation than I would be willling to accept for my own children. It is one thing to talk about gun rights - it is something else to pour so many new guns into classrooms. Warmest Regards, Sandy :)

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Feb 23 at 2018 11:42 AM

2018-02-23T11:42:39-05:00

Armed members of faculty and staff would be a situation much different than that of the disgraced LEO "Resource Officer", who did not enter the building to confront Cruz as he was supposed to do.
Those personnel are already in the area where the slaughter is going on, and they are not solely motivated by a duty to protect others by taking action, but have the supreme motivation of self-preservation as well.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 11:55 AM

2018-02-23T11:55:45-05:00

"Do you believe that select trained School faculty can carry a concealed weapon to protect the school?"

Change "can" to "should" in the above title and my answer is ... 'absolutely"

Response by CW5 John M. made Feb 23 at 2018 12:00 PM

2018-02-23T12:00:06-05:00

We have “sworn” soldiers, sworn police and law enforcement, sworn government leaders - what would be the problem with having “sworn” patriot citizens (retirees, teachers, postal workers, medical, businessmen and women) and the like - people who volunteer to live by required rules and standards, receive required training, who strongly believe that the price of freedom is the ability to be able to defend ourselves. This is a “notch or two higher” than the common “concealed carry” requirements with a “notch or two higher” responsibility. Like the Air Marshal Program post 911, It should be unobtrusive, so as not to give your position away and only within reasonable numbers to meet the need - so as not to look like we’re living in a police state (which would not be the intent) and yet be readily identifiable to enforcement agencies as “team members” (ID, etc). There are probably citizens in sufficient numbers that would be willing to volunteer services at minimal cost (yet to be determined). I see it as a win, win, win situation (protection, citizen development, safety, education, civic responsibility). I know it does not solve the root problem, which lies in morality and social structures resulting from secular humanism which predominates our institutions and much of our society.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-02-23T12:13:45-05:00

Absolutely. I believe that would certainly help. Or, at least could possibly help. But armed teachers can't replace trained security/protection professionals. An armed teacher would still be under no obligation to go hunt down a shooter and engage them. What people think they will and will not do in certain situations can change instantly when bullets actually start flying. So while I think it could definitely deter or stop a shooting, I don't think all our eggs can be put in that basket.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 12:15 PM

2018-02-23T12:15:30-05:00

Pretty much every bank, credit union or financial institution in the country has armed guards, the only ones this poses a problem for are criminals. Shouldn't we offer our children at least the same level of protection we give our money?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 1:15 PM

2018-02-23T13:15:18-05:00

Yes

Response by MAJ Don Bigger made Feb 23 at 2018 1:16 PM

2018-02-23T13:16:48-05:00

I am a coach at a local high school and substitute teach math classes regularly. CC holders in our state are permitted to carry while at school. I know many teachers that do. Not one student knows who those teachers are, or even whether any carry at all. The mindset of the teachers that carry is one of doing what they can to simply protect the students in *their* class. They have no intention of ‘going to the sound of the shooting’, or breaking down doors, or clearing rooms, or any other Rambo-like activities. However, they have thought through what actions they *would* take—closing the classroom door (which they keep locked at all times, so it’s simply a matter of closing from the inside), barricading the door, telling students what walls to get against, and taking up a defensive position with gun drawn in the case a shooter still gets in (btw—the windows in the doors are the short narrow ones similar to the ones you may find in detention centers). It certainly could be the case that their room is the first one a shooter goes into. In that case, there’s not much the teacher could do whether they CC’d or not. BUT—only one room is the first room.

I don’t know what the best answer is, but under present circumstances, this seems better than nothing.

Response by SPC David Willis made Feb 23 at 2018 1:24 PM

2018-02-23T13:24:25-05:00

Why not just rig schools to be filled with sleeping gas, knock everyone out and subdue the shooter?

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Feb 23 at 2018 2:07 PM

2018-02-23T14:07:42-05:00

The inherent failure in depending on a "Resource Officer" as the sole defender of a school should be apparent now to everyone.
This one man, who had the entire burden for the safety of all those youngsters, did not measure up. He failed to do his duty, but perhaps we asked too much of him.
It's fine to have an LEO on campus, not only to monitor and control student misbehavior, but to serve as a friend and mentor to the students. It is a very different matter to place the burden of single-handed, unaided, rapid response to an "active shooter" situation on one man, particularly a uniformed, well-known individual, easily identified as a threat by anyone planning a school attack.
From what has been made available about Cruz's history of threats and violence, it is highly likely that he and the "Resource Officer" had interacted often before Cruz was expelled. Cruz no doubt had plenty of opportunity to observe much about school security, and included his knowledge of how that LEO went about his job in his planning of his rampage.
If he considered it necessary to the success of his plan, I don't doubt that Cruz would have eliminated that threat of an armed LEO on campus by killing him first.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 2:07 PM

2018-02-23T14:07:46-05:00

Yes, I believe SELECT trained school faculty should carry concealed weapons at school. I do not believe the average school teacher should "carry", however. Perhaps an administrator, or employee designated for security is a much better choice. That a capable employee should receive firearms training which is updated at regular intervals (lots of practice).

Response by TSgt David L. made Feb 23 at 2018 2:39 PM

2018-02-23T14:39:11-05:00

Yes, if they volunteer and show proficiency, "qualify" periodically, and have school permission I think we should have armed staff as well as uniformed security at each entrance.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 3:14 PM

2018-02-23T15:14:29-05:00

I'll admit that I have my reservations. I'm no expert, but my limited experiences lend me to the opinion that anyone tasked with armed security needs as few distractions from that mission as possible...and running a classroom seems a major distraction. Additionally, as most of us would agree, it isn't about being armed...it's about being able to push through the fear, adrenaline and shock to put a round where it needs to go, and not where it doesn't. On the one hand, I don't see the argument as being any different from that of regular concealed carry; I'm often "distracted", and know no more or less about my potential performance if required to draw my weapon in a real world scenario.

I think Step One is securing the schools physically; barriers to entrance, monitoring systems, locking systems and ensuring the competency of armed SROs. Then perhaps we can assess if certain educators on site should be a "last line of defense". Personally, when I look at the Florida shooting, I can see multiple failures in existing systems that need to be scrutinized before we discuss further measures.

Response by Cpl Bill Fleischauer made Feb 23 at 2018 3:16 PM

2018-02-23T15:16:27-05:00

I attended a parochial school staffed by nuns who'd survived the Hungarian Revolution, having faced Soviet troops. Our Daughters of the Divine Redeemer (DDR) wouldn't shrink from ANY threat and would take a ruler to the Broward Coward
...a Ma Deuce wouldn't print under those habits while Sister Mary Rosanne sometimes demonstrated a bull whip on the playground.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Feb 23 at 2018 3:36 PM

2018-02-23T15:36:52-05:00

A lot of schools have prior service personnel that are teachers, their already trained and have valuable knowledge. They need to be aloud to carry a weapon, if they choose.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Feb 23 at 2018 4:11 PM

2018-02-23T16:11:36-05:00

Hire Veterans instead.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 23 at 2018 6:28 PM

2018-02-23T18:28:33-05:00

Yes

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Feb 23 at 2018 7:03 PM

2018-02-23T19:03:07-05:00

Sure.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Feb 24 at 2018 12:33 AM

2018-02-24T00:33:25-05:00

No. Teachers are there to teach, not be fall-back police. Maybe the school district's need to get a bunch of us vets, let us protect our children.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Feb 24 at 2018 1:33 PM

2018-02-24T13:33:11-05:00

I posted this on another discussion dealing with this topic. It's an account of a real life school district where staff is armed. -

I have the privilege to live in a school district that has had armed staff members for the past four years. There are prominent signs posted at the entrances to the school grounds and at building entrances announcing that fact to one and all. My grandurchin has been a student there for three years. I attend school functions such as six week awards ceremonies, programs, lunch visits and vet visits regularly. We've had a number of sleepovers and parties here for her and her BFF's(Cows and horses and dogs, oh my!) The point is that I know the staff at the school and I know a lot of the kids at the school. I've never seen any evidence of guns in the school. No armed teachers prowling the halls. No suspicious bulges on the ankle, at the waist, in the armpit or any place else on any of the staff. And as for the traumatic impact of guns in school on the kids there, there's no evidence of that either. I've never heard a student mention that her teacher or the vice principal or the maintenance guy had a gun. Kids are not stupid or unaware; if guns were upsetting them they would know who had one, where it was and who had what kind of weapon. And they'd talk about it. They talk about everything. I've never heard a word about guns at school. From staff or students.

The policy of arming school staff here has had none of the negative effects the talking heads have been postulating. In actuality the policy has contributed to a happy, secure and effective school system.

Wouldn't surprise me any that those great big red and white signs announcing the policy may be the most effective part of the policy.

Response by SSgt John Massey made Feb 24 at 2018 1:34 PM

2018-02-24T13:34:30-05:00

NO!!!!!!!!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 24 at 2018 2:50 PM

2018-02-24T14:50:37-05:00

If the teacher is well trained and required to under periodic mandatory training, allowed to carry concealed on the premise and not identified to the school population- then why wouldn't it work? A shooter unless on a suicide mission- knowing that a percentage of his teachers were armed, trained and proficient would certainly think more than once than before shooting up the school. Ditto for freaks- a school with 3000 students most have several hundred teachers- if say 10% of 200 teachers (20) were armed world you want to try to fight them- particularly when they started to isolate your position?

Response by AN Charles Medes made Feb 24 at 2018 8:10 PM

2018-02-24T20:10:03-05:00

Absolutely yes. I think anyone willing to carry should be allowed to qualify on the range and in the classroom. Even if they require recert every 6 months. There are plenty of educators who would feel safer if they were allowed to carry. I even agree with anonymity if the teacher would prefer to not disclose their carry status. Even 1 educator with a gun offers more protection that what they currently have

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Feb 26 at 2018 11:49 PM

2018-02-26T23:49:03-05:00

To begin, Governor Moon Beam Brown of Kalifornia is not my choice for Gov, I did not vote for him and were he to run again, which he is not, I would once again not vote for him. As to this recent most school shooting tragedy, I agree something drastic must be done. School shootings occur with hapless abandon at an alarmingly increasing rate. Must be stopped or at least slowed down. To me, the shooter as pure cowards. It does not require brass balls to enter a gun free school zone and commence to open fire, knowing full well there is in all likelihood just one active shooter for miles around. How much sense does that make? If you answered NONE, bingo, you get the gold star today. So, what do we do? Have to do something, everyone agrees with that. Just listen to all the talking heads, right handed one sand left handed ones. Without exception, they all agree - this shit must cease - like NOW! So, how do we curb the violence and eventually bring it to an end? Tough question, a question to which there is not a clear cut answer appeasing folks on both sides of the firearms question. Tough questions regarding tough issues must be met head-on with tough responses. My idea centers around making provision for having firearms on the campus. There are a few ways in which this can be accomplished. On the most passive side ideas such as enhanced background checks (good idea) have been touted as the sure-fire cure.
Well, no, I think not in totality but certainly a key ingredient in this mix, a very necessary step forward. My next idea is much more difficult to implement but there must be a mental health aspect attached to the right to our right to keep and bear arms. All across this great nation mental health has been neglected at an alarming level. Good ideas, each and every one but inadequate as sole solutions, more must be done. Many folks have suggested more armed security personnel, more school resource officers (why not call a cop a cop) essentially creating a state of martial law around out school campuses, Kindergarten to graduate school and everywhere in between creating an education environment akin to prison camp run by a well armed cadre, a perception but a fact nonetheless. Now we are moving closer to the other end of the debate - arming teachers! How do we do that - not easy but doable. Gun experts need to powwow and devise a protocol by which a limited number of teachers and other school staff would be legally armed while in the classroom or elsewhere on the campus. Don't start with "The cops will end up shooting teachers", sorry I don't buy it. Volunteers would b sought out all across America, they would be trained in a program akin to most CCW requirements. Greater minds that this one would need to gather and hammer out details and create a program of instruction, a very thorough program. Folks who are fearful of firearms are raising a rallying cry proclaiming teachers will be shot by police, teachers will shoot students in error and other products of similar hysterical thinking. Folks, we all need to work together on this issue. This box of Pandora is indeed open and will never again be closed. We have a problem that must be dealt with in a logical nonemotional way. We must do this for the kids - it is our duty as parents, as adults, as leaders in our communities. My final thought, the place this is all taking me: if guns are simply present in unknown numbers by unknown persons at unknown locations the likelihood of a gunslinger coming onto a campus in America with guns blazing suddenly flames out because these potential shooters know, without a doubt, there are firearms turned defensively toward the miscreant himself/herself. My eye envisions a massive deterrent. Men and women, either veterans or active duty personnel can see how much sense this all makes. Only last thing, the teacher would not be forced to arm up.

Response by LCDR Gordon Brown made Feb 27 at 2018 12:37 AM

2018-02-27T00:37:31-05:00

Absolutely select trained school staff can become the security force to protect the children.

Response by Chuck Brown made Mar 4 at 2018 5:28 PM

2018-03-04T17:28:12-05:00

The officer who did not go in should be brought up before the public and charged with cowardice. Should be forced to give up his pension, be required to go and kneel before all the surviving family members of the children and apologize for being a coward.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 4 at 2018 8:25 PM

2018-03-04T20:25:46-05:00

If thing is kept in a lock box that students can't get into, and they will try. I have no issue with it.

Response by SFC William (Wardog) Ragsdale made Mar 6 at 2018 9:41 PM

2018-03-06T21:41:53-05:00

I think they should if trained to do so

Response by Eric Lund made Mar 7 at 2018 9:02 AM

2018-03-07T09:02:30-05:00

Do I think guns have a place in schools? Sure. skeet clubs, small bore Olympic style shooting, ROTC, and IPSC competition shooting were once part of school life and are still part of college life at least at your high-end universities. THESE ARE DISCIPLINES THAT OFFER SCHOLARSHIPS TO THOSE UNIVERSITIES. Also If we had a firearm safety course in school we might eliminate some of the accidental shootings.
Do I think we should have snipers on the rooftops? No! Schools are not prisons but it should be a fortress. Schools should be built with security in mind giving controlled access by design compartmentalized in a monolithic concrete structure to limit the risk of fire, protection storms and from outside aggressors. inside you get rid of the white bare brick and paint with warm earth tones to add a calming effect on the students. you move the teacher from class to class, not the students for your core classes. This puts only children going to and from specialized electives and lunch in the halls at any time.
The rise in mass shootings is certainly a gun control issue but not in the way you think.
The way this is a gun control issue is the fact that we have to keep enemy combatants criminals and the ill people away from guns and their victims. NOT!! Guns away from enemy combatants, criminals and the ill. For those that don't get it. it's about what you are controlling the gun or the people. If you leave a person on the street that intends to do violence they will find a way and a gun in most cases causes less loss of life and severe injury than a well-placed bomb. Control the people you end ALL violence. Control the gun you may only be able to stop gun violence.
If half of what I've read about Cruze's life is true I'm not surprised at all at the outcome. The fact that our system allows a person like Cruz to walk the streets is cruel to them and dangerous for us.
This child was identified by the school and law enforcement as a threat and rather than getting him help they expelled him from school and further degraded his situation pushing him further into psychosis. This is why he attacked the school and not a government office, person's home, or public venue.
Looking at the target of the attack should tell us a lot about why it was committed. He believed the school was the cause of his problems. Honestly, I agree with that assessment for the most part. It was the job of the school to educate and prepare him for adulthood instead it failed to educate him failed to protect him from abuse and then cast him out when he needed mental help and in my opinion cast him out because he needed help. Our teachers simply aren't willing to cope with the challenges of dealing with "damaged goods".
Forget the subcategory of gun violence. let's do that evil thing and generalize for a moment. Let's try to find a solution to stop all violence. from domestic violence and child abuse to the mass shooting.
We have Federal State and Local Criminal Justice systems. we have laws regarding who is allowed to have a gun. Cruz by law shouldn't have been able to buy a gun but the government dropped the ball. the government passed no law that allowed them to evaluate his mental stability and put him on the no gun list when he failed. But where is the Federal Bureau of Mental Health? Above and beyond any need for new laws that people can choose to ignore we need to find and remove those that are unstable and a threat. Because you can take away the guns knives baseball bats and pointy sticks but the insane person will find a way to do harm. The only way to neutralize that threat is by psychotherapy, monitored medications and/or institutionalization. so we need out existing institutions like the military and schools to do due diligence and report soldiers and students that may be suffering from mental illness. then we need to do something about it before he or she harms themselves, their spouse, child, boss, coworker, stranger or group of strangers.
The only problem is; If this system were to be used by the political body to tailor the masses to a political belief system. So there has to be checks and balances.

Response by SSgt Stephen Manwell made Mar 7 at 2018 4:16 PM

2018-03-07T16:16:52-05:00

Yes.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Mar 8 at 2018 1:08 PM

2018-03-08T13:08:32-05:00

Its common sense to have or allow voluntarily, school staff to be armed if properly trained.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Mar 8 at 2018 1:10 PM

2018-03-08T13:10:11-05:00

There is no other recourse in stopping a bad guy with a gun, then a good guy with a gun. If you argue that, then the police should never be called to a school shooting.

Response by SSG Paul Lundquist made Mar 8 at 2018 2:55 PM

2018-03-08T14:55:53-05:00

The short answer is NO. However, when mandatory weapons training becomes a required course in college in order to obtain a teaching certificate, possibly then. It would have to be followed up with required annual refresher training in firing weapons, assault training, building clearing, etc.

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Mar 16 at 2018 4:39 PM

2018-03-16T16:39:12-04:00

No. Have real police officers in the schools. Guys that have worked on the streets. My son is a county police officer in Maryland and is one of two School Resource Officers in the school. They are trained to handle all types of disturbances and including active shooters. Arming teachers is just a bad idea.

Response by Terry M made Mar 24 at 2018 5:40 PM

2018-03-24T17:40:46-04:00

One school district is looking into arming qualified maintenance people instead of teachers. Which I think is a good idea. Maintenance knows those schools inside and out.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 25 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-03-25T11:51:14-04:00

Gee- instantaneous response , instead of waiting while the police cower outside waiting for sWAT.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Mar 25 at 2018 8:18 PM

2018-03-25T20:18:59-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner A good question who dynamics has changed considerably since Parkland school shootings. The behavior of ALL of the local law enforcement agencies was a disgrace. Douglas did have an armed SRO on Campus who has at the scene of the shooting in less the one minute. He ferruled to enter the building while about five minutes and twenty seconds of shooting continued. This is inexcusable COWARDLINESS. If an armed officer engaged the shooter maybe he would have been able to kill fewer people. The question of armed teachers, NO!!!. I have a California lifetime secondary teaching credential and an firmly against this. Teachers operate under a lot of stress and on occasion some lose it, they are not bad teachers only human. Having access to a loaded firearm would only make such instances more of a problem. Schools do need more and BETTER security. Consolidation of smaller HS into a single larger one with thousands of students in effect create a small town six-eight hours a day. The student need the obvious protection form each other and from the outside. Two different problems. Over the centuries of public education the issue of student on student has been dealt with in a way that few students are injured or killed by another student. Vice Principals and Guidance councilors along with help for social services and law enforcement have been effective is handling the "bully". The problem is from the outside and it has many ways to be death with. Video and monitoring of hall and areas where student congregate. Video/audio on command by the teacher in classrooms, the zoning of large schools so that if a shooter enters he/she can be easily isolated. The issue of law enforcement demands that sworn and uniformed armed professional police/sheriff's officers be present on campus. In some large districts the School District has a sworn Uniformed police force just to keep order in Middle and High Schools. Elementary Schools which are much smaller, 300-600 students, daily visited by a patrol officer with the random visits to classrooms, with the teachers permission or invitation if there is a budding problem. The Law enforcement officer (s) as shown in Douglas HS were ill trained in working in a school environment and needed a lot of additional training. In the Maryland you may have had an opposite problem with a come out shooting and take no prisoners Infantry style SRO. He killed the shooter but also may have killed a 16 year old girl also. Aggressive handling of these shooting events is going to cost lives but also save lives the dilemma of an Infantryman on an assault, the golden rule of Infantry leave no living thing behind you. School security needs an attitude and women and men who are capable of making life or death decisions with out falling apart.

Response by Sgt Ronald Paden made Mar 31 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-03-31T23:21:36-04:00

Certainly well qualified willing would be a deterrent as well as an active first responder to help regain control

Response by SFC Freddie Porter made Apr 2 at 2018 10:08 AM

2018-04-02T10:08:24-04:00

Here’s what baffles me about this issue. A couple of three or four points. By definition, a first responder is just that, a responder. That means the fire is burning, the heart attack has occurred, or the shooter is shooting and in every community response time differs from approximately 5-15 minutes (my guesstimate). We know in the military that there is a “golden” period of time to apply life saving measures in order to maximize success. The immediate deployment of assets to neutralize the threat will only decrease the casualty rate.

I often wonder why people so willingly give up the responsibility for their own self defense or defense of others. Does their life mean so little to them that they will not provide for their own defense or the defense of others. To them, it seems to me, they shun responsibility and accountability for themselves and their society in general. Do they know how to administer CPR or pick up a water hose to apply immediate response pending arrival of first responders?

With these points, why would you not want someone trained and screened not be armed in case something like this happens? I’m frequently asked why I have a CCL and my response is usually because it’s there when only you really need it. It’s not a power play, ego enhancing item that proves I’m a real man. My name isn’t John Rambo. But if you open fire on me or those around me with the intent to commit great bodily harm or deprive me, my family or those around me of the right to life or security or safety, I feel it is everyone’s responsibility to come to the aid of everyone else including yourself. When law enforcement arrives, step back and let them take the lead but they still need to respond. Who was the biggest non asset in the Florida shooting? The LE first responder that stayed outside. Who were the biggest assists? The teachers who willingly gave their life’s in defense of their students.

Response by SSG David Andrews made Apr 2 at 2018 11:44 AM

2018-04-02T11:44:07-04:00

Yes, I believe that selected school faculty can successfully carry a concealed weapon to help protect the school, students and faculty. I would qualify my statement to mean or concern ONLY faculty that volunteer and desire to carry to help protect. Not all faculty have the mental attitude or outlook to be able to successful handle weapons as protectors. I do not believe that arrmed faculty means an enhanced danger to students or other faculty. I believe it means an enhanced state of safey for the students and faculty. I have been a licensed concealed carrier for about 30 years (about 4 years while living in Florida and about 26 years while living in North Carolina). I have been through the required training for both states. and I was a Basic Rifle Marksmanship Instructor in the Army and I was on a pistol team and instructed Officers in the handling, maintenance and use of the M-1911 .45 Cal. pistol. I would still want more training and range time for concealed carry and on the State laws covering the lawful use of a firearm for self defense if I were planning to carry in a school. I would certainly advocate that school faculty receive mor training in the laws and in the actual handling of a firearm before allowing them to carry in the schools. Now after saying all of this, I do favor the concealed carry bt school faculty to protect students and other faculty. I believe that warning signs should be posted on and around the school and school grounds.

Response by Capt David Bays made Apr 2 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-04-02T13:23:13-04:00

For the vast majority of the teachers, no. You used two important words in your question..select and trained. Before any teacher is allowed to carry a gun at school, they should be required to go through a section process to figure out whether they can handle the stress of engaging an active shooter without endangering the students and first responders. And the ones who do make it through the selection process would have to pass an initial rigorous training course and the undergo frequent periodic training and drills to become and stay competent.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Apr 3 at 2018 10:49 PM

2018-04-03T22:49:16-04:00

Absolutely! Anyone who is willing, trained, and capable, should be armed in our schools to protect, themselves, AND our children from harm.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Apr 3 at 2018 10:55 PM

2018-04-03T22:55:12-04:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member , that guard was outside the school, ostensibly, teachers, faculty, and administrators would be inside the school in a position, to not necessarily seek out a shooter, but rather to defend their own lives, and the lives of their students should the shooter be encountered. One could hope the defense of one's life could motivate a person to take action given the proper tools. As far as the Unions go, can one has to wonder why they hold the lives on their members, and of our children in so low regard should they come out against such actions.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 5:34 PM

2018-04-10T17:34:21-04:00

Stepping back from the emotional response, ask some questions about the unintended consequences:
1) If a student or other bystander is accidently shot by an armed teacher while defending from a shooter, will the school district cover the medical/legal bills?
2) Are the armed teachers automatically insured against liability in a shooting? How many school districts can afford the increased premiums without asking for higher taxes? My guess is not many.
3) What happens when there is an accidental discharge in the school? Accidental discharges happen even with experienced police officers...it WILL happen with teachers as well.
4) Who covers the medical costs for an armed teacher injured while defending? Police officers do not have "standard" insurance, neither do AD military.
5) Who is liable when an armed teacher loses control of their weapon? A moment's inattention is all that it takes for kids to get into stuff that they should not be in despite your precautions....any of you with kids know what I'm talking about.

Response by Robert Leviton made Apr 11 at 2018 8:56 PM

2018-04-11T20:56:01-04:00

The first issue is States passing gun laws! There is no asterisk after Shall Not Be Infringed. The 10th amendment and 14th amendment also are in play!

Response by CPL Stephen Patterson made Apr 13 at 2018 7:19 PM

2018-04-13T19:19:42-04:00

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Apr 15 at 2018 8:50 AM

2018-04-15T08:50:36-04:00

Said it many times regarding this subject. We have thousands of young vets out there, already trained up, in shape, with actual weapon/combat experience, who would be better qualified to become school security. There would, (obviously), have to be a rigid screening/vetting process for applicants. but in my humble opinion, that would be a better, safer option than trying to train up teachers. That, and there wouldn't be firearms physically in the classroom. 3-6 of these qualified vets, dressed in civvies, carrying concealed, (with long guns close at hand), would be a better deterrent.

Response by MAJ Luis Fernando Hernandez made Apr 16 at 2018 12:04 AM

2018-04-16T00:04:17-04:00

To honestly debate this topic, we must first accept the simple fact that our society has changed fundamentally in terms of respect for human life and empathy towards our fellow man. Having said that, I must let you all know of my background and experience so you will better understand what I say and why I say it. I am a music educator (band director) with over 21 years of experience. I am also a Veteran ( Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom) and retired (Major) with over 21 years of service in the Army and Army Reserve. I am also a Life Member of the NRA and have been for the past 15 years. While in the military, I took the safety and welfare of my troops very seriously. I do the same for my kids in our band program. While they are under my care and supervision, I am directly responsible for their safety and welfare. I believe in this so strongly that I am willing to take a bullet for my kids, if that's what it comes down to. I say this as a husband and father of two sons.
I have consistently trained with firearms in the military and in civilian life. I have taught friends how to handle firearms and how to shoot responsibly and safely. I am comfortable with firearms and strongly believe that QUALIFIED teachers (those with state-issued conceal-carry licenses) should be allowed to carry concealed on their respective campuses. Those same teachers should also participate in regular training with local Law Enforcement agencies in the areas of marksmanship, active shooter reactive training, crisis scenario training and First Aid Trauma training (similar to Combat Medic training). Not every teacher should be armed-some teachers are barely able to handle a classroom. To throw a firearm into that situation would be a recipe for disaster.
Carrying concealed on campus is a great responsibility that a lot of us are willing to shoulder because it is way past time to continue to debate this. Kids and teachers are dying because of school administrators' and politicians' unwillingness to act decisively and implement policies that will work, as opposed to "gun-free zones". As an experienced teacher who loves going to work everyday and loves his kids, I want EVERY available tool at my disposal to keep my kids safe. Like I said earlier, I am willing to take a bullet for my kids, but it would make a lot more sense if I were able to project a strong defense and be able to fight back with equal force.

Response by SFC Tony Bennett made Apr 18 at 2018 2:19 PM

2018-04-18T14:19:40-04:00

It's an exceptionally BAD IDEA, Just imagine the veteran cops that are shooting unarmed people for little or no reason. Now take an EDUCATOR attempting to engage a shooter. Here's the kicker, who's name goes on the blame line when one of these teachers shoots and kills an innocent student? DEEPER STILL, it's an established fact that black students are dealt with differently than their white counterparts. Show of hands,,,,who can guarantee that these armed teachers will not have racial bias and view all of their charges equally?

Response by SFC James Lahtonen made Apr 21 at 2018 8:34 AM

2018-04-21T08:34:55-04:00

YES!!! I believe that staff members who volunteer, and pass a rigorous training program should be allowed to carry. I have read about other locations that the “volunteers” are trained, must demonstrate their marksmanship abilities, and must carry frangible ammunition to carry. These staff members must attend training and “qualify” every six months, and are awarded a stipend, and ammo to train with. This gives the ability to react at the lowest level. With more people able to address the threat, it may have been the catalyst to make the resource officer in Florida take the action that he was supposed to. My personal opinion is that he should be charged with dereliction. He had a duty to those kids, and the more I read about the Sheriff, he should be voted out!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 8:40 PM

2018-04-22T20:40:53-04:00

You seldom to never see these shooters attack a Police Station or Military Installation. Why? Perceived threat. I remember visiting an Air Force Base when I was younger and the Airmen at the gate had weapons and it was visible that they did. At my current installation there are Armed Guards hired by the State to curb any threat. Of course we're also the National Guard and our Governor ordered that we are allowed to be armed with approval of our Commander so many Soldiers and Airmen are armed in addition to the Gate Guards.

Entrance to Fort Benning, armed Solders. Entrance to Fort Lee, armed Soldiers. As I'm sure it's the same with many military installations.

So what's the difference?

Teachers occupy a space called a Gun Free Zone. It's perceived as a soft target. The staff are unarmed and sometimes they don't even have a School Resource Officer who would be armed with a pistol. Maybe if they were near their vehicle a rifle or shotgun.

If we changed the perception that schools have as a soft target to a hard target we could see a reduction in these events.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Apr 22 at 2018 10:02 PM

2018-04-22T22:02:43-04:00

LTC Private RallyPoint Member Does everyone need to know every thing?

Would Gov. Moonbeam cause charges to be filed aainst a CCW licensed teacher who saved his/her kids/school from a mass shooting?

Response by SSG Lee Kujawa made Apr 23 at 2018 2:35 PM

2018-04-23T14:35:34-04:00

Teachers are there to teach, not play cop or security guard. If my kid ended up in a classroom where a teacher was armed, I would demand he/she be transferred to a class without an armed teacher.

Response by SSgt James Holt made Apr 30 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-04-30T17:26:50-04:00

Absolutely. Anyone who has been trained and drilled in the use of a firearm and taught the proper maintenance or their weapon and both how to use it and maybe even more importantly went to use it and when not to use it and there many times when a firearm should not be employed, can and I think should be allowed to defend the children in a school setting for for that matter defend anyone from being murdered or gravely injured by a gunman or someone brandishing any sort of potentially lethal weapon.

Response by SSgt James Holt made Apr 30 at 2018 5:29 PM

2018-04-30T17:29:42-04:00

What do you create anytime you have a weapon-free environment? A target rich environment.

Response by SFC Kevin Quinn made May 1 at 2018 5:09 PM

2018-05-01T17:09:27-04:00

As someone who owns guns and has lived by the gun (11B and other MOS's for 15 yrs) I have no fear of carrying it myself nor around others that I have served with. Nowadays I regularly work in schools and many many many school district all over the country and just about every one of them fits the same mold. 1) the teachers that would 'volunteer' for this program, I frankly don't want to see armed.... most are BS artists (think arm chair 'Special Forces' ) that I wouldn't trust with just holding bullets much less a concealed weapon, there are some exceptions yes but overall not. 2) I may be wrong in my numbers but 99% of the kids/people involved in these school shootings are people who attend or have attended the same school. The kids would take a week and know who is armed, they spend day in and day out with these people. They would then be the first targeted. (and teachers know this, I hear it all the time whenever this subject comes up).

Response by Sgt Tom O'Brien made May 2 at 2018 10:55 AM

2018-05-02T10:55:29-04:00

thinking back to when I was in school(way back in the last century) it was common practice for us to bring our rifles to school.....we had a shooting program at not only the YMCA, but also at the Local VFW post....also the nuns at Cathedral of Christ the King Junior High School were big shooting fans

Response by PO2 Tara Drennen made May 6 at 2018 2:31 PM

2018-05-06T14:31:41-04:00

During the '70s, there was little to no encouragement from the Navy for "technical" personal (ETN) to qualify on firearms or participate in armed programs.

I qualified on the 1911 on my own and volunteered for all the QRTs in my various commands. I was fortunate to get FBI 'crowd response' trading at NavCommSta PR during the 1976 election cycle when there was concern that the various leftist agitation groups might stage some kind of violent incident at our isolated Ft. Allen (Ponce) location.

Baton and shield training, and qualification on the M14 with add'l bayonet practice, was included.

Shipboard QRT assigned me a Model 12 shotgun, with little training but I was familiar from hunting as a kid.

Point was that though my primary job was crypto and radio systems maintenance, I was able and willing to 'go toward the sound of the guns' and protect my shipmates and command of the need arose.

My relatives who ARE public school teachers are divided on armed teachers, but those who HAVE the skills and training with firearms are fully prepared to protect their students and schools if needed. Unfortunately, they are publicly non-communal as that is not the Party Line.

Response by A1C John Reese made May 6 at 2018 7:05 PM

2018-05-06T19:05:35-04:00

I got out of the AF in 1980, and at this time am back in school to become an educator. A valid second career after thirty years of manufacturing! As I look at my fellow students, I have to think that there are so few who even know what a gun is, let alone how to use one. With competition shooting practice, I would still hesitate to bring a concealed weapon into school. Among the many reasons, the students there would be forced to think which teachers have a gun, who would protect me, who would harm me. The very concept of a "good guy with a gun" that is proposed becomes counter-productive to teaching.
Another major difficulty faced is identifying who is a valid target during the high stress of a school shooting. Is it the "problem kid" that is always mouthing off? The fellow teacher who happens to be of another ethnicity? How about a first responder who pops into sight while we're under stress? There is no reliable method of guessing, a shooter only announces their intent when it's too late.
When the dust settles, I'm pretty sure no matter which decision a school implements the media will have much to say, the politicians will condemn everyone who didn't "help", and there will be blame enough for everyone. As a future teacher, I do not have an easy answer. I'll find out in two more years if anyone else does. I'm pretty sure you don't want me carrying a concealed weapon on campus, my job is teaching, not security. I want to do my best in this new field, and provide a safe environment for my students.

Response by Odell Harwell made May 9 at 2018 10:55 PM

2018-05-09T22:55:08-04:00

I think that teachers who are trained and certified in the use of firearms will be effective in deterring gun violence in schools.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-05-09T23:21:06-04:00

A person with a handgun could stop a mass murderer in a building, complex of buildings, or other setting in which one might find a school activity happening. A teacher is a person, so yeah, a teacher could stop a mass murderer with a handgun.

Right after the Parkland shooting, there was AR-15 hysteria along the lines of "a handgun is no good against someone with an AR-15" and that's not really true, as many vets, especially most Army and Marine vets, are probably aware. Once you close the distances into the confined space of a building or complex of buildings, then the advantages of a rifle are diminished and the disadvantages of a handgun are diminished so that, depending on the specifics of the situation, yes, a competent person with a handgun should have a very reasonable chance of hitting and incapacitating (at least) a mass murderer armed with an AR-15 or similar weapon.

For all that, I think the biggest problem in recent history with regard to mass murders (and also some terrorism incidents that have happened here) is the failure to recognize and deal with dangerous people before the murders happen - talking about the various reports to police and the FBI, and interactions with police regarding the Parkland shooter, and similar examples of authorities having been made aware of dangerous people before those people committed their attacks (Orlando, Boston, and so forth).

Response by SSgt Jeffrey Andrews made May 11 at 2018 8:58 PM

2018-05-11T20:58:16-04:00

According to the Constitution All Citizens should have the right to Carry. Of course they don't and not everyone wants too, but it is Constitutional to carry.

Response by LTC Andrew Addison made May 12 at 2018 7:29 PM

2018-05-12T19:29:49-04:00

Well, I teach JROTC and I wonder if we are prohibited from ever carrying due to some rule/regulation from the military...I already have a ccw here in Nevada yet I do not carry at school.

Response by CPT Don Kemp made May 12 at 2018 8:05 PM

2018-05-12T20:05:04-04:00

This is not a recent requirement for school teachers. In the past 150 years, teachers have had to clean, chop wood, and protect from predators both human and animal.
Much of this recent predatory activity is from students who were not appropriately disciplined in the school or protected from bullying at school or a combination of the two. These school shooters are bullies and thugs.
School thinking has gotten them into this mess. School thinking will not get them out of it. Of course select trained school faculty should have concealed carry licenses and weapons. The shooters are bullies & thugs....and cowards. They won’t attack hard targets.

Response by Cpl Thomas Wiklanski made May 13 at 2018 10:45 AM

2018-05-13T10:45:03-04:00

I would give the faculty the option to carry, but a better solution would be to arm the school maintenance and janitorial personnel. Maintenance and janitorial personnel have the run of the school building, know the "hiding spots", and if they were Marines or other military, would not hesitate to run toward the sound of gunfire, unlike our so-called police and school resource officers, whose primary goal is to "protect and serve" themselves. Am I painting police and school resource officers with a broad brush? Damn straight.

Response by Cpl Thomas Wiklanski made May 13 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-05-13T11:01:23-04:00

Human nature dictates that the person with all of the bragging about what they would do in a school shooting this (especially) includes “law enforcement”) actually would cower in fear, while a 90 lb. armed teacher or maintenance worker (veteran) would reluctantly, but successfully “take out” the shooter. Being “forced” into a situation also forces one to act. There are many examples of persons, who one would normally think, would not be capable of acting in an extremely high-stress situation, but DO come out on top–stopping the threat, and saving lives.
All one has to do is look at the Medal of Honor recipients, who are almost always mild-mannered, initially reluctant to act, but DO act, and perform feats who most would think are normally beyond their capacity and capabilities–TRUE bravery in the heat of battle. The same applies to those civilians who act during school shootings.
Human nature has a habit of propelling (actually forcing) the normal, average person into a true “hero” and life saver, while showing the true (cowardly behavior) nature of those we assign to protect us. A good example of our “protectors” cowering in fear is the deputies who FAILED TO ACT despite having all of the equipment necessary and the preferential laws on their side (that protect them from lawsuits and liability).
TRUE heroes ACT, while our “protectors” (failed to) REACT.

Response by LCpl Paul Holland made May 15 at 2018 3:45 PM

2018-05-15T15:45:29-04:00

I want it done carefully, and I am so sorry to see us reduced to this (I openly miss the innocence of my youth) but, that being said, if an armed intruder comes in the elementary school where my grandchildren are, someone lock and load and take him out!

Response by SSgt Kenneth Richmond made May 16 at 2018 12:01 PM

2018-05-16T12:01:42-04:00

As my Dad use to say better to know who then what. I think that if you gave a insentive to teachers it would cost less then hiring an armed security and would deter shooter because they wouldn't know who would be coming against them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2018 7:46 PM

2018-05-20T19:46:50-04:00

Proper and professional security should be set up in layers like an Onion. Each layer is independent of the others but all function to create the Onion. The center of that Onion is the thing to be protected. The numbers of layers depend on the threat, the environment, need of access, and the target. There are several more elements that could increase or decrease the number of layers. Let's look at a typical school and see what measures are needed.

HARDENING OUR SCHOOLS;
Proactive action and planning would, most of the time, prevent and/or greatly reduce School Campus Crime. School Resource Officers should be trained in specific Campus Crime Prevention Programs for each grade level that would keep students aware of potentially dangerous situations and current scams. It would also develop CP attitudes and techniques that would become habitual. ALL VISITORS must enter and sign in through ONE entrance into an area that has controlled access to the rest of the facility. Classroom Doors should be steel reinforced and have steel reinforced integrated frames and deadbolt locks. Each Classroom should have a “Panic Button” that alerts the main office and automatically switches CCTV of that classroom and surrounding hallways to a large “Split-Screen” monitor in the admin offices. All entryways should be strictly controlled or locked. All Students must be issued a Photo ID with an electronic strip that will record their arrival time. Teachers could have a portable reader to enhance roll taking and reduce paperwork. Also, Administrators and Faculty could initiate programs and Code Words within the classrooms to maintain a physical security level that would offer students protection during crisis situations. Covert CCTV cameras should be placed in both inside and outside public areas, entryways and hallways, and in each classroom. The system should be overlapping and able to be monitored from both the school's Intranet and the standard Internet using existing secure and passworded software. This would allow selected Faculty and Administrative personnel, and most importantly, Campus Police to routinely check the School and public/classroom areas within the facility's buildings 24/7 from their homes or any other computer with the correct passworded software and connected to the Internet. (Most police departments now have computers in their vehicles that would have that monitoring capability) This is a common and proven technique at a reasonable cost. By utilizing all the above layers of protection, this system, would provide a substantial increase in both a psychological and physical Barrier/Deterrent for any criminal acts, and drastically reduce Police response time. We are now living in an era of our lives that requires high vigilance and quick response to all types of violent and sometimes deadly acts. Proactive action may soon include armed police patrol of school hallways and other public areas and the concealed arming of selected faculty and staff. These actions may seem excessive to some, but they will prevent loss of life and destruction of our way of life in case of both man made and natural disaster situations.

Response by CW5 John M. made May 20 at 2018 10:23 PM

2018-05-20T22:23:49-04:00

This secular society and moral "sickness" continues to worsen every decade. Those who would prefer to destroy the Constitution in favor of chaos and eventual world government grow bold in power, manipulation, corruption, "spin", and delusion. IMHO. We harden schools, or ban guns - the bad people will smuggle guns or choose another venue - then another, then another - until the entire society panics, we see economic collapse, or becomes a police state on marshal law / lockdown. There are those radical revolutionaries doing everything in their power to include breaking laws, spending millions through planting false flags - to "spark" chaos and anarchy. If you don't think it could happen in the good ole' USA - you may be a big part of the problem. IMHO

Response by Cpl Scott McCarroll made Jun 4 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-06-04T11:01:29-04:00

Absolutely, when the choices are between a few and many I will choose the few 100% of the time. However I believe that it's only a stopgap to hardening the schools themselves.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Jun 5 at 2018 11:43 AM

2018-06-05T11:43:59-04:00

Unfortunately, yes.

Response by CPO Joe Jester made Jun 7 at 2018 9:02 AM

2018-06-07T09:02:25-04:00

This is one of 110 school districts in Texas ...

Response by PO1 Daniel Nordling made Jun 7 at 2018 9:52 PM

2018-06-07T21:52:00-04:00

I think it doesn't matter because it does nothing to address the actual problem. The toxic environments of schools boosted by the internet, and people literally ignoring others in trouble are the problem. In everyone of theses cases so many people knew the kids had issues and needed help. In most people actually said they were not surprised or were pretty sure something was going to happen. Parkland was the most blatant failure of the community at every level. I mean I personally would not care if trained people had guns in school but that would be just a cosmetic band-aid to the issues just like more gun laws would be.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Jun 12 at 2018 11:17 AM

2018-06-12T11:17:27-04:00

I do.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Jun 12 at 2018 9:07 PM

2018-06-12T21:07:08-04:00

Trained personnel, be they Veterans or former law enforcement, or civilians who have a strong desire to learn to protect others... all should go through an enhanced background check, demonstrate their proficiency with a weapon in a close quarters environment, complete a training course every summer before school and go through training scenarios once a month with certified instructors, become a reserve deputy or reserve police officer (for lawful detention purposes), complete an annual psychological assessment and a bi-annual background check to remain in the program and to be able to carry a weapon on campus, while also being indemnified by the state. These are just a few things that should and could be implemented in order to better protect our schools.

Response by CPT Duane Caswell made Jun 18 at 2018 12:32 PM

2018-06-18T12:32:37-04:00

I am a retired LEO and I coach riflery (its a sport just like football in Georgia) at the local high school. I am legally authorized to carry at school and I always do with the blessing of the administration. We protect our celebrities with guns and our children with signs. What is screwed up about this.

Response by MSG David King made Jun 20 at 2018 5:53 AM

2018-06-20T05:53:18-04:00

What these places need is people willing to engage someone with a gun and that trait is not common. It requires training similar to police to fully understand the laws. In a place like New Jersey, where they have a gun law for every minute of the day, the person engaging the shooter would be arrested and may be given the same sentence. Essentially in New Jersey they're saying let them die.

Response by Col James Fetterman made Jun 20 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-06-20T17:26:12-04:00

I think it is a good idea when the teachers are volunteers, and have had prior training, such as retired military. This is in addition to sheriff/city police school officers.

Response by SGT Jason Yago made Jun 28 at 2018 10:56 PM

2018-06-28T22:56:29-04:00

Training should dictate however even the untrained at point blank
Range can stop the threat. Which is better than the alternative, one wolf all sheep no sheep dog

Response by CPT Jim Kotva made Jul 1 at 2018 8:42 AM

2018-07-01T08:42:13-04:00

Tough call having over 20 years in the military being around and shooting weapons which I always enjoyed doing and still do this is a tough call. Now if a soldier went into teaching after leaving the Army I would have no problem. This soldier has been trained in handling and firing a weapon understands mass body shooting. Now you have a lets say 32 year old teacher that is a gun nut also thinks they are Mr. Badass wants to conceal and carry in class I am rather leery. I listen to PBS a lot I feel there are a lot of intellectual debates that can be heard from this station. I hear the NRA's side and I am rather hesitant siding with them mainly because the NRA started out as a gun safety hunter safety organization and to me it has evolved into a money making machine for weapons manufactures.

Response by SPC Peter Essig made Jul 2 at 2018 12:19 PM

2018-07-02T12:19:49-04:00

No.
Don’t be stupid.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Jul 16 at 2018 12:36 AM

2018-07-16T00:36:29-04:00

Yes, any, I say again any, well trained school staff can protect students and staff from an armed person

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 6:28 AM

2018-07-17T06:28:53-04:00

I don’t think it’s a great idea. Not because I’m anti gun, but I recognize the problems guns bring. Look, most of us on Rally Point have military service. So what? The last time I was in Afghanistan my battalion had 4 negligent discharges. One Soldier shot their M4 into the floor of a DFAC. Their statement said “I was checking to see if the weapon was on safe.” Not only was it supposed to be in weapon status yellow, but they rotated a selector switch and pullled the trigger to see if it was on safe! In Iraq, the wall next to my cot was shot by a guy clearing his weapon when he failed to remember that his magazine was in the chamber and when he cleared the weapon another round, of course, was fed into the chamber. We have this idea that because you went to BRM in Basic you have sufficient training in firearms. I had a 11B shoot himself in the hand playing with a new Glock he bought just 3 years ago. Lots of people participating in this forum aren’t combat arms folks, and if you were, never touched a handgun, and even if you qualified with a M9, you’ve never trained even once in an active shooter or any senerio drills. I’m a cop, and we’ve got our annual active shooter retraining in another week. It’s just an 8 hour class. Full time
Law enforcement “hit” rates are only at 30 percent. That’s a lot of stray bullets. I carry a handgun (and a long gun) occupationaly full time, I’ve never negligently discharged a weapon, and I’ve participated in several dozen “shoot House, and reflexive fire” exercises over the years...and I wouldn’t call myself an expert, nor would I delude myself into thinking that a ND or worse couldn’t happen to me when I go on duty in 3 hours. Proficiency and aptitude take regular practice. Like playing an instrument. Are teachers going to securely carry firearms by the thousands to school? Nope. There will be dozens of NDs in classrooms every year with various outcomes. Police forces and the military have them constantly. There’s an enduring video of an ATF agent shooting himself in a classroom that everyone has seen. I understand the emotion and ideology of why it seems like a good idea, but I’ll bet more kids or teachers are hurt or killed every year by accidental discharges, misplaced/stolen weapons, inappropriate use of force etc, than the 30-40 people killed in school shootings each year.

Response by LTJG Joe Nichols made Jul 19 at 2018 5:33 PM

2018-07-19T17:33:42-04:00

Governor Brown does not have a clue!

Response by CSM Clifford Fargason made Jul 21 at 2018 10:32 PM

2018-07-21T22:32:56-04:00

If you were a teacher and you hear shots being fired in the hallway outside your classroom would you rather be in a school that:
a. has two school resource officers that are armed
b. has a very select small group of teachers (not including you) that are armed
c. allows any of the staff and faculty that are legally allowed to carry to be armed
d. has a policy that allows no one to legally have a weapon on campus
In my own personal opinion, only a fool would choose anything besides c.

Response by Sgt Scott Sullivan, CCNP, CCNA, Security+ made Jul 29 at 2018 10:55 AM

2018-07-29T10:55:44-04:00

I believe that many of the bill of rights applies to restrictions applied by the government, and should not supersede rules that people want to apply on personal property. I think I have the right to bear arms, freedom of speech and expression, and right to privacy while in public places. That being said, public schools to me are just that, public. That being said, the all rights have limitations as ruled by the Supreme Court. So, it's not an easy discussion, and the discussion overlooks the real problem, which the shift in society where kids are either growing up with a single parent, or both parent working, either trying to get by, or simply trying to "keep up with the Jones". This mean that many kids are being raised by someone who doesn't the same best interest as parents should. Add to the constant negative "doom and gloom" news and TV programing we are presented with is a recipe for making the children to think that violence is normal and that they are always victims. People cannot mentally detach themselves between events they see and TV or social media happening far away, from the reality of the somewhat otherwise normal world we live in. I acknowledge the issues in the world, but they are exaggerated by the media and politicians for personal gain. Think about it, 7.6 billion people in the world. There is going to be crime, there is going to be differences of opinion. If you focus too much on the social injustices of the world, you will drive yourself crazy

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2018 11:22 PM

2018-07-29T23:22:00-04:00

I can't believe this is been the most successful posting I've ever done on rallypoint! I couldn't believe it I just did this in 5 minutes at a McDonald's before I started work over 5 months ago. Thank you all for your support! It was also dumb luck that I happen to see the night before the PBS NewsHour debate. The reporters didn't have a clue but the NRA young adults knew their subject matter and made these reporters almost speechless. LOL

Response by CPO Todd Talbot made Aug 4 at 2018 6:28 AM

2018-08-04T06:28:49-04:00

I am a high school science teacherv and I think I should have that option.

While I'm certainly not going to leave my students and go "hunting" during an active shooter situation I would like the opportunity to defend them if the shipper comes to me.

Run. Hide. Fight. It only works if you have the third option.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 9:41 AM

2018-08-04T09:41:22-04:00

In my experience it depends on the area. I have been in a school where at anytime the county sheriff's would be a 20min call away. Now take into account speeding and such we can cut it down. In this situation armed, trained, tested teachers would make sense. By tested I do not mean prior service military gets front of the line, but teachers who go through many many hours and situations of shoot dont shoot, breach, and so on. YET on the flip side in a school I worked in, we had 3 armed police and 3 security personnel. this situation I would see that armed teachers may not be necessary. sort of like too many hands not enough work to warrent supplemental assests.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Aug 5 at 2018 9:33 PM

2018-08-05T21:33:26-04:00

I think it’s a good idea and make sure they are trained and educated

Response by LTC James McElreath made Aug 6 at 2018 1:04 PM

2018-08-06T13:04:14-04:00

I do not believe teachers should carry guns to school. A significant number of teachers do not have the presence of mind to have guns in their school. It is my belief that the only thing to come out of this is a whole bunch of friendly fire incidence. The next thing would be more guns for the bad guys to arm themselves with. It takes a special kind of person to carry guns and know when to use the gun (knowledge of deadly force consequences). Just because you get a CCW doesn't mean you have the presents of mind to use them properly. I think the school system would be much better off hiring either off duty police or retired ones. I can't imagine how costly it would be for the school to pay for malpractice insurance for the teachers carrying.
We pay big money to protect our money in a bank, alarm companies to protect our homes etc why not protect the schools by hardening them.

Response by SP5 Tim Moore made Aug 8 at 2018 7:40 PM

2018-08-08T19:40:53-04:00

A relative of mine carried (6th grade teacher). One of the men on the faculty told her one day that if the SHTF, he was going to make a beeline for her classroom. Anyone carrying in a school needs extensive training, whether that is a hired guard, a local police officer, or a teacher/administrator. School shootings are far more rare than the media would have you think, but they tend to be high numbers of wounded and killed. In addition to arming some school personnel, schools need to be hardened up; minimal and always supervised entrances and exits; and it wouldn't hurt to have metal detectors at those entrances. I went to an outdoor concert and everyone passed through a metal detector after bypassing their purses/backpacks etc.

Response by Robert Leviton made Aug 9 at 2018 9:07 AM

2018-08-09T09:07:02-04:00

At some point governor moonbeam's unconstitutional law needs to be overturned. There is no asterisk after Shall Not Be Infringed. This is not something that democrats understand. The government whether Federal, State, or Local doesn't have the Constitutional power to arbitrarily strip an individual from your Constitutional Rights.

Response by Lt Col Bill Bateman made Aug 10 at 2018 9:12 AM

2018-08-10T09:12:44-04:00

Brown, once again, may have proven he’s an idiot but this can be a federalized program. Using resource officers is great but expensive. Having a well trained all volunteer force of teachers is the perfect answer. We did it with airplane pilots after 911. The Airlines, and u ions, had no choice. It’s totally volunteer. I believe there would be enough retired military, etc., to volunteer. Training is done at a Federal facility by trained Federal law enforcement officers. Look, schools are target rich environments for nut jobs seeking their 15 minutes of fame. They know they won’t be confronted. Take that option out of the equation and it will make a difference. We can’t just look the other way and pretend it won’t happen again or try and blame the NRA and the millions of law abiding citizens that own firearms legally. That’s just scapegoating and total BS. It’s not the answer. The answer is facing the problem directly

Response by LTC James McElreath made Aug 11 at 2018 9:48 PM

2018-08-11T21:48:12-04:00

Looking back at my police career, I had been in one incident which was a Vietnam veteran whom lost it after a family problem. I did not realize the internal demands I had suppressed from that shooting. I was in an explosion when in Iraq many years later on and all that mess came back like it was yesterday. Now I have new problems but at least I am no longer a police officer or military.
I can not imagine one of those teachers with little training coping with , a child or co worker being shot and coping with it later. Most of them don't know what they are asking for. Then can the school afford the after math of a shooting! One wrong move from their armed teachers and the law suits are on.. The teachers will want additional pay for the privilege to carry.

PS my veteran lived, Thank God.

Response by Capt Robert Lee made Aug 16 at 2018 7:00 PM

2018-08-16T19:00:17-04:00

A certain number, to be debated, of trained teachers, retired military or police officers (any would qualify) should be hired to protect our schools. If it is ok for government buildings and other facilities, wouldn't it be just as important, or even more so, to protect our most prized children? Only gun confiscators would object to this.

Response by COL John Hudson made Aug 18 at 2018 6:28 AM

2018-08-18T06:28:28-04:00

Lots of water boiling on this issue. After retirement, I taught school (K-12). Been through a number of 'lock-downs' due to perceived threats. Never felt that we were in any actual danger. The school district's policies and procedures on lock-downs were thorough and I won't waste time debating "what if." Hard to shoot at someone if you can't get at them. My combat experience? Boots on the ground 2x Vietnam, 1x Balkan Conflict, almost 4 years in Iraq (68 months of my life in full combat during three conflicts). At 71 years of age I don't expect to slap leather, but the greatest aspect of my experience is to be level-headed and decisive in protecting the children under my care. I do that by ensuring they fully understand the procedures put into place to protect them, quickly move to the safest place in the room, remain quiet (doors locked / blinds closed) and let first responders do their jobs. I have a CCL, but obtained it more for novelty rather than need (never felt that I needed one to do my job at school). I personally believe that background checks must be accomplished on all weapon purchases. This causes me no harm and has NEVER acted to place a bar or curtail my ownership or use in any way. The most difficult aspect to deal with throughout the universe of this problem is 'mental illness;' a very slippery slop and one I'm not qualified to address. I have no belief that we will ever be rid of those who, for a myriad of reasons known only to themselves, turn to senseless violence. The best defense is to be ever vigilant and on guard to recognize such individuals as quickly as possible and let armed/trained first responders deal with them. My two cents. JCH

Response by A1C Isa Kocher made Aug 21 at 2018 3:43 PM

2018-08-21T15:43:32-04:00

1.
1st of all, virtually all mass murderers know their chances, and expect to be killed, and if not, they mostly commit suicide - as often as not... so, arming people is categorically not a deterrent. it's not going to deter, and it may reduce, possibly, and only possibly, the kill count.

even if there are armed people with the training and experience and know how to stop mass murder in progress, the mass murderer has achieved their goal of mass murder. there is very little if any probability of shooting a mass murderer before they've started killing - of course, one can imagine a scenario of a citizen hero preventing any killing from occurring, but that kind of speculation is no basis for policy.
2.
"gun free zones" simply do not stand up to the facts: there are no gun free zones. and mass murderers don't avoid places where they know armed trained weapons will be aimed at them. - i don't have all the statistics at my fingers - so know there are people who'll quibble about it. but the fact is, most mass murders occur in public places where there are police, security guards, armed citizens, veterans, military personnel.

3.
all the studies made show that training people to kill intruders in a public place has virtually no effect. after training, and these were serious committed trainers and learners, people who've never had to kill before in a life and death situation were unable to prevent a mass murderer scenario. no such training has shown any effectiveness in stopping a mass murderer before they start mass murdering the masses.

4.
in places where there were well trained security personnel capable of killing or disabling, either they were unable to stop the mass murderer or other factors made their weapons more a liability

5.
mass murderers are angry. they all have histories of spouse abuse or family violence - they virtually all have no psychiatric records and people with psychiatric records are the least likely to be mass murderers: no trained professional can reasonably predict someone's being a public danger. for many reasons. people do things in anger that no one can predict.

the only way not to have mass murders is to prevent it from happening in the first place: given the psychodynamics of mass murder, arming teachers only makes schools a more likely, more challenging target.

one possible route is dealing more effectively with spousal abuse and family violence - which means greater involvement of primary health care - people with anger and status issues beat up on their wives, their kids, their parents and they feel betrayed themselves, dissed. - not a psychiatric problem, family medicine and a culture where violence is seen as an answer - educational problem - violence never solves anything

giving teachers guns tells kids that shooting people will fix it. it doesn't

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 11:15 AM

2018-08-22T11:15:31-04:00

Allow teachers to make the choice. I would also prefer a school-setting focused training course and an annual qualification- but that is up to the states to decide.
The fact is now- in most locations- it is highly likely there is no armed person inside the school, making it a target-rich low-risk opportunity. Introduce some possibility that there are any unknown number of armed persons inside- it increases the risk to the attacker, likely influencing their decision making process to choose a different target.

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Aug 23 at 2018 4:37 PM

2018-08-23T16:37:01-04:00

Yes - I believe that a trained faculty member that does not have a fear of weapons and a strong sense of protection to their children would be a great asset to the school. That is a win/win and helps the police get a head start in controlling the threat before it gets way out of hand and the loss of lives skyrockets.

Response by SGT Jim Harris made Aug 23 at 2018 7:18 PM

2018-08-23T19:18:10-04:00

A volunteer, well trained, and deputised as a special officer and unknown to the student population, would be a deterrent.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Aug 24 at 2018 12:03 PM

2018-08-24T12:03:07-04:00

Anyone with a valid Concealed Carry permit should have the ability to do so regardless of where they are physically. That permit I carry doesn't say valid...except when you cross certain property lines where your life has less value. It absolutely shouldn't on school property either. Criminals get all kinds of excited when they see soft targets. They understand they have a plethora of victims to choose from and nothing in the world to get in their way. Until we make them understand if you harm or attempt to harm our kids, you will be shot, perhaps shot multiple times, school shootings will continue. On a second note, the school shootings I've read about were not cause by a gun. They WERE caused by some of the claimed victims torturing, and bullying, and ostracizing the shooter in some cases for YEARS before the event. If anyone really wants to stop that variety of violence then the answer is to teach people to act in a manner that is conducive to being kind to each other. You can't screw with someone for years, then later claim victim status when you had a big hand in shaping how they saw others.

Response by CWO5 Roberto Fernandez made Aug 31 at 2018 9:48 AM

2018-08-31T09:48:24-04:00

Absolutely, especially veterans. You would need to validate experience as not all branches of service require annual qualifications or weapons handling and FAM fire prior to a deployment. Obviously, a refresher course and constant weapons handling is a must. Have to train how to react so it becomes muscle memory. .

Response by CDR Raymond Schenk made Sep 10 at 2018 6:27 PM

2018-09-10T18:27:17-04:00

I am a ccl and a teacher. It could be done correctly, and I would volunteer. Military background teachers are idea for this, and there are a lot of is in schools. Lots of politics. But it could be done correctly. Texas does it.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Sep 11 at 2018 2:17 AM

2018-09-11T02:17:31-04:00

If the police officers won't go into a school to intervene with a shooter, why not train teachers to shoot a gun to protect our children? If not teachers, hire veterans.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2018 6:39 PM

2018-09-17T18:39:57-04:00

I work as a school resource officer, I received extensive training in this specialty and achieved the highest level of certification which required years of experience, required training, travel, and over 200 hours of additional training that I had to do in addition to the mandatory coursework. This all gave me an excellent ability to operate as a cop in the school. Educate, mentor, protect. We work with staff to make sure they are able to react to emergency situations, we help plan responses by staff and protocols to follow should something happen. We educate parents on safety, help them understand laws regarding their child such as booster seats, safety belts, new driver guidelines, modern threats and issues their children may have to deal with. We teach the students about making good choices and what to do if they need help. We listen when they need a friendly ear. And we try to prevent crime at the school, and react when crime happens. I have arrested drunk parents who drove their kids to school, registered sex offenders who came into the school, and various drug investigations, etc. I've also given away numerous child safety seats, helped parents understand how to install them, bought lunches, school supplies, clothes and toys for kids who never knew who it came from.

That said, a teacher with a firearm will not replace those things. That armed teacher will only have the opportunity to face the active shooter at the door and stop the threat, period. Even with me in the building, running from one end to the other, that is precious seconds and lives lost by the time I can get there. The armed teacher is the best chance to prevent loss of life, period. That is the single reason they would have that tool. Law enforcement will still be done by cops, teachers will not be doing anything differently with the exception of having the ability to effectively fight back. Not every teacher wants to do it, not every teacher should do it. The ones who want to should have an opportunity to defend themselves.

Response by MSgt James Wickman made Sep 22 at 2018 12:26 PM

2018-09-22T12:26:20-04:00

It should be an option for each school district to consider.

Response by MSgt James Wickman made Sep 22 at 2018 12:27 PM

2018-09-22T12:27:42-04:00

It should be an option for each school/school district to consider. The teacher's need to be identified and trained.

Response by MAJ Bruce Carriker made Sep 22 at 2018 5:29 PM

2018-09-22T17:29:45-04:00

Arming teachers is a ridiculous idea. If a trained Broward County Sherrif's officer failed, what makes you think a teacher is going to do any better? This is just more mindless blather from the NRA.

Response by SPC Stephan Baker made Sep 23 at 2018 1:02 AM

2018-09-23T01:02:33-04:00

"can" "should" "could"? regardless.... I think the step up of LEO and the communities supporting that should and can be a sufficient response. With that being said... teachers are people too and can act in similar ways as we've seen in the last few days. I'd rather have 2-3 LEO in a school or schools than trust some jackwagon teacher with a glock. The fact of the matter is, we have been complacent up until a few years ago with the protection of the kids that are in our care in the system. We weren't proactive... instead we were reactive.... we all know that's a bad scenario... scenarios never played out or simulated.

Response by SFC Domingo M. made Sep 24 at 2018 9:07 AM

2018-09-24T09:07:59-04:00

I think liberals want the massacres to continue so they can have fodder for their anti-gun agenda. Simple as that. Prime examples. Chicago, New York,... and just about any other major city you can name with a Democrat Mayor. One more population control measure just as important to them as abortions.

Properly trained school administrators and or teachers should be the first line of defense for our school kids. Many who have military experience most definitely should be allowed to carry under school supervision and should be required to demonstrate their proficiency once annually.

My two cents.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Sep 24 at 2018 12:29 PM

2018-09-24T12:29:10-04:00

Florida is on a huge hiring spree right now to hire school resource officers (RSO). I do understand that the lone school RSO didn't appear to have done his job. So why hire more? Although what most people don't know is before that shooting it was common practice from many departments including my own here in Indianapolis and SOP that not one single officer can enter an active shooter alone. Bare minimum of officers is two. We have now changed that rule which was to cater the media and political blow back. Which I find ridiculous in the sense of officer safety. We in the Military even teach from day one, "the buddy system".

I have mentioned this a time or two in the past and have gotten a lot of grief about it. Mainly the fact that these kids are being shot up while an armed officer could be combating the shooter. My only argument is, I can't save lives if I'm dead. Who has my back? Who has my 6? If there is multiple shooters then I could be a sitting duck myself. Even the Infantry accesses the situation and fights with a 3-1 odd or breaks contact. It is a moment of WTF should I do. I guess that's why the Military designed a Medal of Honor award. Who is brave enough to go above and way beyond?

My partner here on the Sheriffs dept just left us and moved to Collier County to originally be a resource officer. He ended up taking a road patrol position instead. He said they are still in dire need of RSO's there, FYI for anyone looking. Either way, good luck to him and you all as well.

Response by MSgt Jason Burger made Sep 24 at 2018 12:50 PM

2018-09-24T12:50:17-04:00

I work at a charter school in a state where it is legal to carry on school grounds. Staff as well as students(at the college level of course). There has been a total of zero school shootings statewide. In our facility there is more than 10 staff members carrying on any given day, most with Military experience and weapons qualifications. I can assure you that anyone attempting to use a weapon anywhere on our grounds would not make it very far. Because of this, unlike most schools in our area, we do not require a resource officer like most schools use. Of course this is a good idea. As long as they are properly trained and carrying legally, this is an excellent option to protect our children.

Response by Cpl David Bientz made Oct 1 at 2018 7:28 PM

2018-10-01T19:28:56-04:00

Absolutely, properly trained staff should be permitted to offer that level of safety for the students. I'm not talking about a concealed carry license, I'm talking stringent weapons and tactics. Not many will accept this responsibility, but many will, I'd assume most would be veterans.
What parent wouldn't want that protection for their children? Kids will always be there, police may not be given the footprint of today's schools. I sure would like to see it!

Response by SPC Bernard Palmer made Oct 10 at 2018 10:08 AM

2018-10-10T10:08:42-04:00

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
Any questions?

Response by Sgt Michael Betts made Oct 10 at 2018 4:56 PM

2018-10-10T16:56:15-04:00

The current tactic for engaging "active shooters" is to do so as quickly as possible, regardless of the risk involved. Teachers are at just as much risk as the students or anyone else in the vicinity should one of these atrocities occur and not only do they deserve to have the ability to engage an active shooter, it should be incumbent upon them to do so to protect their students and themselves by "removing the threat" as expeditiously as possible.

Response by MSgt Wesley Christiansen made Oct 25 at 2018 10:15 AM

2018-10-25T10:15:51-04:00

After active duty I became a teacher and carry every day. Many of my fellow teachers carry. I feel very safe at school. It is common knowledge in our community that teachers and staff carry, that also helps with a sense of security.

Response by SPC Jay Crawford made Oct 30 at 2018 11:41 PM

2018-10-30T23:41:37-04:00

I have been a police officer and I'm now retired. I have also been a high school teacher. (Still am.) Having known many teachers in many schools I have come to the conclusion that it is rare to find a teacher that I would trust brining a gun to school. There is, additionally, no safe direction to point a gun in school and, when the adrenalin is flowing it is damn hard to hit what you are aiming at. Teachers should not be carrying guns in school.

Response by 1st Lt Meghan Anderson made Oct 31 at 2018 1:14 PM

2018-10-31T13:14:41-04:00

It baffles me the way the culture has become “oooo scary evil guns”, instead of them being seen as just another tool. A tool with which great care and responsibilities must be taken but a tool none-the-less. Growing up in a small farming community guns were (and are) prevalent and in most cases maybe even too easily accessible (most people I knew had a .22 leaned behind the front door, my home included). None of kids were particularly interested in them any more than we were the knives that peeled our dinner potatoes. We knew however how to use it, how to be safe with it, and occasionally got to shoot them. We also had parents and teachers and other adults who took an interest in what we were feeling, or watching or listening to. That, I feel is the difference. And since our culture has become less personal, and more judgmental of each other I believe it is critical we not only try to help prevent these events by connecting humanly to on another, but also by being prepared for that one we miss. Forewarned is forearmed... imho.

Response by SGT Larry Braswell made Oct 31 at 2018 3:37 PM

2018-10-31T15:37:07-04:00

The idea of an armed teacher should not be to track down and eliminate the armed threat, but to gather their charges(students) into a defensive posture/exfil them and respond to the bad actor that is posing an immediate threat to their health and safety.

Response by PV2 Terry Hughes made Nov 3 at 2018 4:01 PM

2018-11-03T16:01:19-04:00

Considering the gravity of subject matter, it is imperative individuals desiring concealed carry at schools, teachers, administrators, custodians or others. Each should be required to pass basic firearm profieciancey in addition to active shooter intervention advanced courses. Each applicant should be placed in stress induced scenarios using simunitions. Included training: Single head shot hostage fire stages. And Complete Combat first aide as a minimum. With this basis covered, confidence is developed. If the need to respond happens a trained individual can and will prevail. I'm all for it if the person is well trained.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Dec 2 at 2018 12:15 PM

2018-12-02T12:15:58-05:00

Yes I do and it will deter assaults on our schools

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Dec 2 at 2018 2:43 PM

2018-12-02T14:43:59-05:00

It is not whether we arm teachers or have paid professional security. The question is how are and why are the kids getting weapons into school and why are they shooting up each other. It is my belief that the family environment and the school faculty is partly to blame for one not responding to bullying and not having the family unit for support is a big issue. With all this said we need to consider the fact that an armed teacher is no better shot then most police officers and are we willing to accept the collaratell damage?

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Dec 2 at 2018 3:27 PM

2018-12-02T15:27:22-05:00

I was in law enforcement 15 years never met a victim with a gun! Churches in Ohio are now encouraging people to carry!

Response by SFC Domingo M. made Dec 4 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-12-04T21:59:20-05:00

I am going to my local Sheriff's Department to look into a CCL for myself. I read that all that is required now is a copy of my DD-214. Depending on what I find out, Point Blank shooting range and gunshop will be gaining a new customer and member. Since I am retired now, I need a new hobby besides fishing.

Response by SFC Domingo M. made Dec 4 at 2018 10:00 PM

2018-12-04T22:00:00-05:00

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Dec 14 at 2018 7:01 PM

2018-12-14T19:01:22-05:00

All outstanding comments!! Just a little federal program could make this happen.

Military installations around the world use private security forms. Time to harden access points, have posted vehicles with trained security specialists and put it all in the Federal Education portion of each years budget.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Dec 16 at 2018 8:47 AM

2018-12-16T08:47:58-05:00

I see no reason why not if trained and the biggest reason for school shootings is lousy parenting and lib indoctrination in our schools.

Response by MSgt Darren VanDerwilt made Dec 20 at 2018 11:03 AM

2018-12-20T11:03:14-05:00

It's been previously discussed on other threads regarding this subject, but I'll reiterate. 1) It's an established fact, that not having a lethal force response available, is close to 100% ineffective at preventing mass killings. 2) When discussing costs of having either contracted security or local law enforcement perform the task, officials fail to understand the cost involved after the incident (medical treatment, investigation, etcetera). 3) They think, making a rule, ordinance, regulation, and/or posting signs, is good enough. What hubris! But don't follow it up with physical security measures (metal detectors, X-ray machines) as seen in airports and courthouses. That would be too expensive.
So, what's the most cost effective measure? Allowing CCW permit holders, both school officials and parents, to be armed on school property. Also, there are school districts that have police officers at the schools, called "School Resource Officers," they've been pretty effective when objectively utilized.
The Broward County Sheriff Department, based on evidence, had a systemic problem of turning a blind eye on criminal youth. This was part of a larger scheme with the school district to falsify student crime statistics in order to garner federal funding. Another federal program initiated by Obama that incentivized statistical manipulation.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Dec 20 at 2018 11:34 PM

2018-12-20T23:34:15-05:00

First of all, what part of the Second Amendment are you not clear about? Second, why should armed miscreants be allowed to go armed, but law abiding, responsible, TRAINED individuals be unarmed? Would you have a problem with police or military guarding our children? Perhaps you think a big sign prohibiting violent criminal acts will protect them?

Response by Christopher Oates made Dec 23 at 2018 5:02 AM

2018-12-23T05:02:13-05:00

Whole heartedly, the answer is yes. Not everyone should be armed, some folks aren’t cut out for it but it should be an option.

Even if the teachers don’t go all “Jack Bauer” clearing hallways etc, they could just hunker down in their classrooms and wait with their sidearm aimed at door until police arrive. I have my CCP and train religiously. No I’ve never been LEO or in military, I’m not suited for those careers due to personal beliefs. However I take advanced training from John Lovell of the 75th Ranger regiment, a marine sniper and several other professionally dangerous men. I go thru enough cartridges I just got set up to buy at dealer prices.

But as it sits now, in my state of NC, if you are not a LEO you can forget carrying on campus. It’s asinine. Meanwhile the lefts views on school massacres are to racially profile white people... no, I’m not making that up.

This nut named Byron Gladden of the Guilford county school board, who I refer to as Farrakhan jr for his anti-white diatribes, says is white guys are the trouble... despite the fact that the Virginia Tech killer was Asian, the DC snipers were black, etc. Evil is not limited to one ethnicity.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2019 2:36 AM

2019-02-13T02:36:36-05:00

Why not. "Gun free" zones are stupid. They might as well be called "criminal free fire zone"!

Response by D Taylor made Feb 13 at 2019 7:41 AM

2019-02-13T07:41:51-05:00

In SW VA we have 2 state and 1 federal prisons. The COs are already trained...would love the extra pay and would be aware as to potential issues as part of their job. Perfect fit. But our school super has already drawn the line and wants teachers armed. Sad.

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 29 at 2019 11:33 PM

2019-06-29T23:33:04-04:00

I know many teachers that have way more range time hours than most LEO as well some have taken some pretty advanced firearms classes. I think however it gets tricky when LEO shows up on the scene. A protocol in working with local LEO needs to be worked. Personally I think local LEO and teachers need to be on the same page as well work together in active shooter drills. Maybe the teachers wear a "unique vest" that's identifiable them to LEO so when they so up the teacher doesn't get mistaken for the active shooter(s). This stuff could be worked out as well an armed teacher is an immediate response on the the scene. Time is everything in these situations. So yes if things are done in a coordinated effort.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Nov 19 at 2020 1:18 PM

2020-11-19T13:18:53-05:00

Any faculty should exercise their conceal-carry privileges. Identifying those who carry is no one’s business. That keeps everyone guessing on where the COUNTER-THREAT to an active shooter exist.

Even human miscreants that conspire to commit mass murder in “so-called” weapons free schools have their own internal requirements for success.