Do you believe that the statement, "before leading, one must learn to follow," is true?

2017-09-13T11:00:10-04:00

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Sep 13 at 2017 11:04 AM

2017-09-13T11:04:57-04:00

Absolutely.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2017 11:04 AM

2017-09-13T11:04:58-04:00

Yes, this is true IMHO.

Response by Sarah Zayas made Sep 13 at 2017 11:18 AM

2017-09-13T11:18:57-04:00

I wouldn't say "Follow" I prefer saying a leader should be willing to "Serve" the followers meaning look out for followers well-being. A leader should always have VISION and CLEAR DIRECTIONS on how to accomplish the VISION. A leader should also take the fall when the mission fails. That's called RESPONSIBILITY. A leader can delegate the work but he can not stand around, he should contribute to the grunt work as much as he can because it's his mission too!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2017 11:25 AM

2017-09-13T11:25:00-04:00

This is absolutely true. One must understand what it is like to follow and be able to think from the mindset of those who follow them while leading.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 13 at 2017 11:31 AM

2017-09-13T11:31:15-04:00

It can help, but other things come into play. You take your freshly minted butter bars. They haven't been followers. They can become good leaders by being lucky enough to have a good NCO and CoC community that brings them along. I used to be a follower as a Mustang. If you take a look at the Mustang community, they tend to be mirror images on how they were brought up as a follower. That's why you see "manage by terror" types in the Mustang group because that's how they were raised. You see some Mustangs that won't let go of their NCO role because it's their comfort zone. Then you see outstanding Mustangs who learned a lot, know to let go, and to be something different and better. As we are a reflection of our parenting growing up, we are also a reflection on how leadership is applied or misapplied. So being a follower in itself isn't the determiner. It's how you're brought along and being developed as a future leader regardless of the ENL or OFF path you walk.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2017 11:31 AM

2017-09-13T11:31:30-04:00

I concur with that. Following is about working with others towards a common goal. If you were never about or part of the group, it would be extremely difficult to comprehend the dynamics of a group, and therefore hard to get individuals to all fall in line. I believe experience is the best teacher.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 13 at 2017 12:46 PM

2017-09-13T12:46:14-04:00

yup. and a man who cannot control himself cannot be expected to control others.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2017 1:22 PM

2017-09-13T13:22:55-04:00

My answer is, also, yes.

Response by MSgt John C. made Sep 13 at 2017 1:55 PM

2017-09-13T13:55:00-04:00

My life experience has led me to believe that there are situations and circumstances where leading and the arts, science and methods of leadership differ. It is certainly easier to lead the willing rather than the unwilling. It is in those situations and circumstances when the unwilling outnumber the willing that being able to effectively lead others to do what they reluctant or significantly unwilling to do that establishes the demarcation between leadership and leading.

Being in position of leadership often, if not always, involves being placed in such position by some governing authority which has some policing authority backing up that delegated leadership authority. In this perspective leadership is also strongly connected to being the supervisor, manager, top/chief executive officer, or commander.

Leading others effectively in high-risk perilous conditions or situation involves a bit more trust and confidence of those being led in the leader. In such situations seldom will a suddenly on scene will an inexperienced unknown appointed leader prevail in being successful in leading others unless those being led have trust, confidences in the leader making competent timely decisions.

Although the ability to rally the reluctant and unwilling can be strengthened and improved through education, training and development opportunities by giving experience credibility such accomplishment doesn’t necessarily bring with it the ability to inspire others to be willing to put their lives-on-the-line as being directed to do so by the appointed leader.

A rout (a chaotic and disorderly retreat or withdrawal of troops from a battlefield) or a disastrous leadership mess implies there is presence of abundant numbers of those in appointed leadership positions that are unable to rally others to be an organized effort to get the best or better accomplishing results. In such situations and circumstances the leader inspires the unwilling and reluctant to follow.

The essence of inspires others is the combat leader doesn’t always have the convenience luxury of looking out for the follows well-being as the risks of being and going into harm’s way has high certainty there is strong potential and high probability of loss of life and loss of limbs involved. This is where arts, science and methods of leadership separate from being the leader.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Sep 13 at 2017 2:33 PM

2017-09-13T14:33:17-04:00

Absolutely. When someone is in a position following, they are learning. People who become good leaders should know what a good and bad leader looks and acts. When someone is learning these traits something should conclude in a person "I want to be like this person and not like this person." A good leader should know how to self score themselves in situations and that is learned by scoring the leaders they learned from.

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Sep 13 at 2017 2:39 PM

2017-09-13T14:39:59-04:00

Everybody - regardless of rank and position - is both leader and follower. We all have bosses (and thus we must be good followers) and almost everybody is (or can be, or should be) a leader. Good leadership and good followership go hand in glove.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 13 at 2017 2:46 PM

2017-09-13T14:46:46-04:00

I dont know I would word it that way, but I agree with the concept..
yes you have to understand, be willing to be a follower to be a good leader.
For one thing, no matter your rank, there is always someone you will need to follow at some point. And secondly if you dont consider how the order will be executed (or if it even can be by your followers) than you have not done due diligence as that leader.
"Paint all the tanks RED, White and Blue for Family day, get going now and have it done my COB tomorrow"
Never considering the followers have no paint, literally not enough time, the order would violate policy and TM guidance for painting those pieces of equipment

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Sep 13 at 2017 2:56 PM

2017-09-13T14:56:39-04:00

Yep....pay your dues. If you can't follow leadership, why would anyone follow yours? Besides being a follower gives you "seasoning" time to learn how to motivate as well as avoid pitfalls....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2017 5:56 PM

2017-09-13T17:56:00-04:00

Following and leading are two sides of the same coin.

As well, my description of humility is exercising moderation of pride when you know both where you came from and how much you've gained/given up.

Response by Sgt Tammy Wallace made Sep 13 at 2017 6:51 PM

2017-09-13T18:51:04-04:00

yes.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Sep 13 at 2017 9:56 PM

2017-09-13T21:56:46-04:00

For myself this axiom worked pretty well, I unashamedly copied many of the training methods employed by the men who were my superiors both in training and Vietnam ,lessons learned the hard way are invaluable to those that lead others ,just my grunt take on the subject

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Sep 13 at 2017 11:34 PM

2017-09-13T23:34:50-04:00

A good leader must understand and appreciate the roles and duties of others. A good deck officer (sailor talk) must learn how all parts of a ship operate to handle all that can go wrong.

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Sep 13 at 2017 11:36 PM

2017-09-13T23:36:54-04:00

This is absolutely true and cannot be forgotten no matter how high up in rank you go. There have been several instances in my career that I "followed" the lead of my subordinates because they knew better than I did how to do something. You have to learn from everyone you encounter.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2017 3:32 AM

2017-09-14T03:32:07-04:00

When Jesus left is squad all 12, his disciples learned all the attributes Jesus taught them and they carried out his good works. So yes, if you have a solid leader that will teach, coach and mentor you and care about your prosonal life then you will also do the same someday when you are ready.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 14 at 2017 4:07 AM

2017-09-14T04:07:52-04:00

Yes.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Sep 14 at 2017 7:07 AM

2017-09-14T07:07:46-04:00

one must learn and understand what is right and wrong to lead from the front and mentor as well!

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Sep 14 at 2017 12:50 PM

2017-09-14T12:50:09-04:00

Agreed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2017 3:21 PM

2017-09-14T15:21:56-04:00

Yes. A good leader is someone that not only can give orders but also follow them. I had a senior NCO tell me one time that she would never ask someone to do anything she wouldn't do herself and saw more times than not her jump in and get her hands dirty. You lead by example and if you can follow your higher ups with out issue than that will make it easier for others to follow you.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Sep 14 at 2017 9:56 PM

2017-09-14T21:56:21-04:00

Yes. With few exceptions, most people must learn how to lead. Also, even experienced leaders can still find themselves following, even if it is merely to learn something new

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Sep 15 at 2017 12:15 AM

2017-09-15T00:15:39-04:00

Yes, definitely

Response by SSG David Andrews made Sep 15 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-09-15T13:41:37-04:00

YES!