Do you believe that your PTS (PTSD) symptoms can be found in your family members? It is called secondary PTS.

SFC Mark Merino — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:33:05 -0400

Not contagious in the literal sense, but rather secondary PTS. They have been doing a much better job teaching us to identify the signs and symptoms of PTS in the military, but in my opinion they do not explain the effect that PTS has on our loved ones.

Symptom example: Startle response.

You are doing everything in your power to keep noise to a minimum so you don't find yourself clinging to the ceiling. Suddenly, the kids accidentally drop something and BOOM! That demon rises up and takes control. Even though you calm down and apologize, you plant that seed in those around you. Before long, even if you manage not to react, the kids may. They flinch and panic because they expect your reaction. We have now conditioned others to feel what we feel.

So many arguments happen in the family because of the lack of understanding that our symptoms can effect our loved ones. Don't waste your time pointing fingers. YOU might be Rambo and think you can deal with it on your own. Your family may not have that same iron constitution. If you don't want to get help for yourself, get help for their sake. One Team One Fight applies to family even more than the branch you faithfully serve.

This is an example from my life before I got help from the VA. Please share your opinions for the benefit of the community. God bless. Uncle Mark

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 1:48 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:48:09 -0400

interesting question, no i dont think it is contagious, i guess if you spend enough time around someone who has it, they start to rub off on you and you could very well act different, but no. if you lived your life without a single incident, and then try to act like someone who has it, you are just an asshole... lol

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 1:48 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:48:15 -0400

All I can say is don't be afraid to seek help. Help is available.

Response by SPC James Smith made Oct 23 at 2014 2:09 PM

SPC James Smith — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:09:23 -0400

I don't believe it is contagious, however I do believe that by seeing another struggle you are weakened in your own mind and that momentary lapse of clarity puts you in a position to become more susceptible to instances that can become traumatic to you. Just my thoughts though, which are seemingly (to me anyway) in line with what you used in your example.

Response by PO2 Jonathan Scharff made Oct 23 at 2014 2:11 PM

PO2 Jonathan Scharff — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:11:47 -0400

I don't think it's contagious as in the medical definition of the term, however I think what you are describing is the effect that PTSD and other conditions have on our loved ones. It is not only our service time away from family that they have to deal with, it is also the soldier that returns home and may bring with them some issues that the family has to deal with forever. I applaud you for seeking assistance from the VA and also for sharing that with other vets. We need to support each other and show others the path to help when they are in need.

Response by SrA David Roby made Oct 23 at 2014 2:13 PM

SrA David Roby — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:13:43 -0400

Agree 100%

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Oct 23 at 2014 2:14 PM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:14:53 -0400

I think it would depend on how empathetic you are

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 2:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:23:23 -0400

Only in the sense that everybody and their grandmother is claiming PTSD for no reason whatsoever. It makes it so much harder on those with legitimate cases to get the help they need.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Oct 23 at 2014 2:25 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:25:39 -0400

It is not contagious, however I believe it is transferable.
CH (CPT) Heather Davis and I have discussed this a few few times and I believe its often referred to as trans or inter-generational PTSD. The second hand exposure to the original survivor creates a PTSD of its own. Childhood trauma, sexual violence, domestic abuse, etc.
There have also been studies that PTSD affects people on an epigenetic level (yeah $5 word, look it up) that can cause some residual behavior patterns to be passed on to your children.

If you think you have it, if you find your family walking on eggshells around you, talk to someone, get help.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Oct 23 at 2014 2:31 PM

SSG Maurice P. — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:31:50 -0400

SFC MERINO i never thought of it like that bro..............but your 110% right

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Oct 23 at 2014 2:42 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:42:44 -0400

Contagious, no, better diagnosed yes. Additionally, the greater awareness of the injury has allowed many to seek help where they would not have in the past. How many of our past veterans had the same injury and just lived with it or self-medicated? No one would expect a soldier to not seek aid for gunshot wound, shrapnel, or fractured limb but for some reason we still have people thinking they need to suck it up and soldier on with these types of injuries?

Can you imagine anyone allowing a soldier to ignore any other type of injury? “No Specialist, you don’t need to seek medical attention for that gash across your chest, just try to make sure you don’t drip blood all over?” “Sergeant you can keep limping on that fractured leg, your good right?”

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Oct 23 at 2014 3:08 PM

SPC James Mcneil — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:08:24 -0400

This is interesting. I've never thought about the spreading of the startle response. For years, my friends have known to keep me clear of fireworks and other issues. When fireworks occur that nobody knew about, I've seen my response trigger a response in others.

I'm not so sure they feel what I feel, however. When something startles a friend of mine, I jump, but I am not sure that I feel what that friend feels. I'd have to say I think there's a difference there.

This is a very interesting topic, however. Thank you SFC Mark Merino!

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 3:09 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:09:07 -0400

I think depression is contagious in general. If you are down, it will effect others around you in most cases. I don't think PTSD is contagious, but it will still affect how others react when around someone with PTSD. It could be a cause of someone else becoming stressed, but not necessarily PTS.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Oct 23 at 2014 3:17 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:17:18 -0400

I don't know that I agree with contagion. I will say that I once said that my ex-wife (wife at the time) deserved a Vietnam service medal for living with me and reliving it all for over 18 years. She also paid for the nightmares, attitude, aloofness and just plain manic shit. My remoteness was probably a large part of the changes in her that led to the divorce. It does effect everyone that you interact with, family, friends and fellow workers and they all need to be aware of why you are, the way you are, to lesson the impact upon them.

Response by SSG Chris Choate made Oct 23 at 2014 3:19 PM

SSG Chris Choate — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:19:41 -0400

Agree

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 3:29 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:29:18 -0400

I don't think that it's contagious, but I do feel that it affects all parties involved. For example, the children in your scenario above. Families - whether it's a traditional family like the scenario or your military family, can certainly be affected by someone with PTSD. Those same individuals can also be there for support and can also be made to understand or at least be sympathetic. The biggest thing to take away, just as you stated, is that you can't be afraid to get help. Although the military has "hardened" us to a certain degree - it's also taught us to make planned and educated decisions for ourselves and others. Getting help for yourself and by those around you is key.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Oct 23 at 2014 3:54 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:54:29 -0400

Let me try to share something here that may or may not apply.
Back in the early 70s I knew something was wrong, just didn't know quite what. The VA considered it a Nervous disorder (my claim which was denied) at the time and their help was worse than no help at all, almost leading to my death. I spent some time as an out patient and also went to the out reach vet centers that were brand new. I fled the VA for a number of scary reasons and eventually had to get away from the Vet Center also.

The early Vet Centers were run by poorly trained civilian case workers that were usually pissing themselves from the stories they heard and the daily activities going on (suicide by Cop, drug and alcohol use, armed vets, domestic problems)

At the time I went because I thought that I could help others , because the "helpers" were so inept. I myself was probably full tilt crazy at the time but didn't recognize it. I went to many group meetings and despite the fact that almost all of my time in RVN was in the field in combat, met a lot of guys with absolutely horrifying experiences (regaining consciousness stacked in the middle of a boat load of the dead)

I did my best to help the staff and the Vets see some of the problems that the vets were hiding from themselves, but it all became too much and my problems, due to being able to empathize with theirs became worse. I lived near by and when the Center closed for the night they would dump all of these still cranked up vets out on the street. I took them all home to have a beer and decompress a bit.

I had to get away from all of that for the sake of my own sanity and eventually found a good psychologist, and on my own Nickel, worked it out on my own. It was decades before the VA offered me any real help and that came about by my old Tank crewmen badgering me to get back to the VA. The difference then and now is like night and day. If you even think you need help, go get it. They have learned a lot from us RVN vets. If you need to talk, message me, or another old vet, we really have been there and know what it's like.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Oct 23 at 2014 4:01 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:01:57 -0400

Individuals can get what is known as secondary PTSD. This is sometimes found in healthcare workers and care givers who often listen to primary PTSD patients talking about their trauma.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 4:08 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:08:19 -0400

I have to agree with SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member. I wasn't aware that I had PTSD even though I never deployed. ( Say what you will but it hits LEOs, firefighters/ medics as well) It was attributed to my time working as a firefighter/EMT. Though many of us on crew had nightmares sometimes while on duty. It was not contagious as not all of us were diagnosed (about 3 of us on a 9 person shift have PTSD all from the same event). But even the members who weren't diagnosed have picked up on certain mannerisms that we currently have. Example: more pressured movements when we were dispatched to calls similar in nature (now I believe this is mainly from the rest of us moving quicker and them trying to keep up as they see we are more worried than most times), checking certain areas more than once (under beds, closets etc). I don't know thats my two cents, we spend so much time together that you can't help but become a little bit more like the persons you spend that time with.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Oct 23 at 2014 4:24 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:24:00 -0400

I have PTSD or PTS which ever you like to call it. I would say that in some cases it is contagious to people or family around you. I have found some people around me have been just fine but on the hand I have found that it is the opposite and seems catch some. Nightmares for example seems I have pasted a couple onto my better half. They aren't military related but before hand she really didn't have them at all and she is a RN. I belive that it could be passed to other depending on the state of the other person and what they may have been through or maybe how tough there defenses are.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 4:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:53:18 -0400

PTS is definitely not contagious, it doesn't pass on like the common cold. However, PTS could be pass to others through a learned response, where one person picks up the startle response by seeing the other doing the same- "Lead by Example", so to speak- so many times to where they are then "taught" that they feel that they should react with a Startle response too.

I'm not a Psychology major, but that's my Philippine Peso (equal to 2cents) worth.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 5:05 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:05:22 -0400

SFC Mark Merino, this is an excellent point! I never considered what you describe, that PTS might be "contagious," but now that you say it, I can see that it definitely could be.

I didn't get PTSD from any deployment (my one six-month deployment was relatively stress free; a UN mission in Zagreb with fighting, but we weren't fighting, we were peacekeeping), but I did grow up in a home where my father demanded certain things (quiet was one ... we literally tip-toed around the house). I "caught" that, and I've seen myself demanding quiet of my family members.

So, it's kind of a generational phenomenon for me. Not "typical" PTSD in the deployment/combat sense, but still.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 5:20 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:20:59 -0400

I don't know if it is contagious exactly, but I do know that it is struggle for everyone involved. I have a loved one dealing with it and though he's gotten much better over this past year, we have had some very trying times together to get him through it and some days it affects me more than it does him and as hard as it is, you have to realize that it will get better over time. I'm extremely thankful to those that have been helping my fiance with his PTSD because they have done so much for him and it makes me happy to see that people have a genuine concern for the well being of others even if they are not from the same unit or do not even know each other.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 5:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:22:06 -0400

I luckily have a wife that is pretty understanding when it comes to my mood swings, even though sometimes I will say I do not know how she does it.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Oct 23 at 2014 7:47 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:47:03 -0400

PTSD is not something you can catch, like a cold or an STD. However, the affects that the individual that has it can certainly affect that individuals family, friends and work environment. Let's say that I have PTSD and I run into (literally) someone in the mall or commissary. Well, me touching them will not make them 'catch' it. The affects of PTSD on my family, meaning the symptoms that I have, certainly can have an adverse outcome on my family, in the same way that me being a Michigan Wolverine fan will make my children more likely to cheer for them on a Saturday.

But I get what you are saying...hell, I think that I just said the same thing. :-)

Response by Cpl Joshua Wehrman made Oct 23 at 2014 7:50 PM

Cpl Joshua Wehrman — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:50:31 -0400

I don't think it is contagious but that said my wife has gone through a lot for and with me. I literally would not be alive if it wasn't for her love and compassion. It has had effects on everyone close to me since Afghanistan My eldest daughter had it pretty bad. I am so grateful for the good people in my life that have helped me to where I am now and it is a day to day struggle for a lot of reasons

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 8:58 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:58:21 -0400

I am not a therapist but no it is not contagious here is the definition Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it. Symptoms may include flashbacks, nightmares and severe anxiety, as well as uncontrollable thoughts about the event.
This definition alone makes it non contagious

Response by SPC Fred Lytge made Oct 23 at 2014 10:20 PM

SPC Fred Lytge — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:20:01 -0400

Well said brother...very well said..

Response by SA D Joseph Ruffin made Oct 23 at 2014 11:13 PM

SA D Joseph Ruffin — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:13:40 -0400

No. Someone can't develop someone's symptoms. They could react to the exhibiting symptoms, but according to the method of diagnosing PTSD, there has to be a certain number of symptoms met to be accurately diagnosed. If you have PTSD, have you heard about EMDR: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing? Ask your service provider about it. Also, PTSD can lessen over time.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Oct 24 at 2014 5:42 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 05:42:39 -0400

Not PTSD itself, however the general mood can be. Like being around a happy or sad person can rub off, the mood one would create with PTSD may be mirrored by people around you for some time.

You listed the startle responce, one being on edge can make others edgy and more prone to startle, but only so much as while they are around him/her.

I think people around each other all with PTSD may enhance the symptoms.
Alas however, I'm not a shrink so its just an opinion.

Response by SSG Brandon Urso made Oct 24 at 2014 9:34 AM

SSG Brandon Urso — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:34:29 -0400

PTSD is not a contagious disease! PTSD is an anxiety disorder in response to a traumatic event. For the sake of your argument, the definition of contagious would be the spread of emotion of attitude in affect to others. In order to be diagnosed with PTSD, a traumatic event must take place and a large magnitude of symptoms must be present. So, no PTSD in NOT contagious. Rather the anticipation and imintation of your reaction by family members is simply a coping mechanism in response and affirmation to your PTSD. Please be proactive and research before posting nonsense.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 24 at 2014 2:53 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:53:12 -0400

Sorry for the late responses, I keep getting locked out from RllyPoint. We were having some delicate conversations last night and I don't want you to think that I just quit responding. It was a technical problem.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Oct 24 at 2014 3:29 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:29:03 -0400

I don't think it is contagious like a cold or chicken pox....or ebola. BUT, PTSD is not a condition that has a single victim. There is a primary victim, the individual that has to live with the nightmares, the startle reflexes, the paranoia....all the symptoms that go along with it. Then there is a HOST of secondary victims: family, friends, co-workers.... They may or may not know or understand why you act/react the way you do, the terrible nightmares that end in screems, sobs, or sweats... not knowingly create a situation that will "set you off".... I would suspect that in some cases, a spouse could develope their own case of PTSD that is a pure reaction to YOUR PTSD. They wake up to your scream in much the same way you do, they react to your sobs, they live with your paranoia and develope some themselves.... PTSD is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. Daily life living with someone that has PTSD could meet this criteria.

Response by MSgt Dennis Dudley made Oct 24 at 2014 5:21 PM

MSgt Dennis Dudley — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:21:23 -0400

No, I don't think PTSD is contagious. The effect of it might be but not the condition itself. Bear with me here.
To the veteran who is going through it, it on going and probably can be helped with treatment, or he/she is just stuck with it for however long it takes to be controlled whether through medication or counselling or just self control. The point is, the vet has it, they are always in the mental environment and it may be there to stay. They can not easily "walk away" from it.

To the family, they may feel the "startle" effect, but once they are away from the environment or know how to deal with it, their reactions can be less impactful.

Obviously I am no authority on PTSD, this is JMHO

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Oct 25 at 2014 3:05 AM

PO3 Shaun Taylor — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 03:05:48 -0400

I agree with you even though I was one of those who was afraid to seek help.

Response by Cpl Thomas Mcdonough made Oct 25 at 2014 12:35 PM

Cpl Thomas Mcdonough — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 12:35:43 -0400

Response by SPC Paul Prevost made Oct 27 at 2014 1:50 AM

SPC Paul Prevost — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 01:50:45 -0400

I get what you are saying but I would ask you to try to use the correct wording when talking about PTSD. The group I volunteer for is working to combat PTS(d) Phobia and sometimes when people who are not educated about the disorder can be easily confused. While individuals may be intelligent the masses are stupid and fall prey to ideas, like an Anxiety disorder being contagious.

Response by SSG Ivor Alcorn made Oct 30 at 2014 4:56 PM

SSG Ivor Alcorn — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:56:41 -0400

Sorry to say but it's plan and simple its our own faults.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Oct 31 at 2014 8:31 PM

SGT Richard H. — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:31:12 -0400

I don't know that contagious would really be the right terminology. PTSD is experience based, so I'd have to say that the "contagious" reaction is merely a case of sympathetic/empathetic reaction.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 25 at 2014 3:31 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:31:34 -0500

For those of you who are familiar with the Christian Bible, this is a great thread from one of my favorite Chaplains.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/for-my-bible-scholars-i-would-like-to-engage-you-with-a-discussion-on-who-had-ptsd-in-the-bible

For my Bible scholars, I would like to engage you with a discussion on who had PTSD in the Bible....

Saul and David as traumatized warrior kings. Saul committed atrocities, flew into violent rages, turned against David and other friends, murdered priests and holy women. We are told, “The spirit of God left him, and an evil spirit sent by the Lord tormented him.” (Samuel 16:14). Traditional cultures have always known of this wound. They understood that the wound was also spiritual, moral and holistic in its essence. For example, the Sioux...

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Nov 26 at 2014 12:30 AM

SP5 Michael Rathbun — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:30:01 -0500

How many have been amused by a bunch of vets coming into a convention hotel meeting room and a large fraction try to get a chair where their backs are not to the door?

(I'm amused because I always arrive at the AO early enough to stake out a good position.)

To get to the topic of secondary PTS: that sort of behavior can actually be stressful to friends and relatives in its more extreme forms. Getting really edgy when there are fireworks going off a couple miles away also rubs off.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 26 at 2014 11:38 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:38:56 -0500

I do not have PTSD, but I care about those who do and wish to educate myself so that I can help them. Like most responders to this topic, I have never heard of it being contagious and, at first blush, wonder if secondary PTS is merely another way of describing the deleterious effects that others suffer living with someone suffering from PTSD. Then again...

Panic is contagious. The instinct of the herd or flock to follow the lead of a member that begins to flee is well known and unquestioned. Such instincts exist in humans as well. Thus, wouldn't it be possible for a child to learn a PTSD-like response to sudden noises through conditioning by seeing a parent's reaction? Even adults might be susceptible if repeatedly exposed to the reactions of someone suffering from PTSD? Interesting.

Thank you for raising this issue. It bears more discussion and investigation.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Nov 27 at 2014 7:13 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Thu, 27 Nov 2014 19:13:26 -0500

I'm not sure how this fits with the subject, perhaps a wiser mind than my own can make something of it. The other day I went to a facility to have an MRI done. Being a relatively beautiful day, I decided to ride my dresser to the clinic, complete with my Patriot Guard Riders flag and windshield banner. Entering the lobby, my attention immediately centered at the back of the room. A young man with a service dog and sand pattern camo pants sitting with his back to the wall and a thousand yard stare. I nodded hello and went to the window to sign in. While I was finishing up, the service dog began to get a bit restless. He was fidgeting and nudging his masters hand but not getting much response. As a PGR rider, I carry a pocket full of cards thanking Vets for their service from East Texas PGR. They're enclosed in a small glassine envelope with an embroidered star which is salvaged from American flags set to be retired. As I walked up to the man, I held one out to him. I told him quietly, "I don't want to intrude, I'll sit a few chairs over. I just want you to know you aren't alone." He nodded as he took the packet and I moved over and sat down. After a few moments he looked down and read the card, then seemed to notice the dog's unease and began petting him. The dog calmed down and settled at his feet. We sat in silence for about ten minutes when I was called in. As I got up to leave he spoke to me; "Thanks, brother. That's just what I needed, to know that someone cared without demanding stories and explanations." I told him "It was my privilege. There's lots of us who care, but sometimes you have to let us know what you need." We shook hands and parted. He was gone when I came back out, but the nurse told me he went in to his physical therapy with a smile on his face. I'm not claiming any credit for anything. I do hope I helped even if it's just a little. I would like to tell those who are dealing with this problem one thing; There's a lot of us who care. We want to help any way we can. How much we can help is determined by you. Just remember, you are not alone......"

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Nov 27 at 2014 8:27 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:27:58 -0500

Yes i do believe in Secondary PTS. You live in a environment enough you will start to take some of the responses. The best thing to do though is have your spouse take part in Therapy for herself. I know it helped in our house. Great post by the way this is what i like about rally point there are so many post that need to be discussed and you can bring it up here to the RP public and know just about everyone has experience when a issue comes up.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Dec 6 at 2014 4:30 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 16:30:24 -0500

Secondary PTSD in Children

Thirty-nine percent of those who live with a veteran who is struggling with post-traumatic
stress disorder will develop Secondary PTSD (also known as STS or Secondary
Traumatic Stress). Be on the look out for symptoms of STS in your child and if you notice
any of these behaviors, seek help as soon as possible. Unfortunately, if left untreated,
Secondary PTSD can negatively impact the rest of your child’s life!

Signs & Symptoms of Secondary PTSD to Watch for in Children:

Extreme mood changes, irritability;
Depression and anxiety;
Losing creativity and interest in activities they would typically enjoy;
Loneliness, withdrawal and pulling away;
Acting out more than a child should at their age;
Fighting and trying to harm siblings;
Self-destruction or destruction in property;
Stating or acting as they are to blame for a parent’s PTSD outburst;
Stating or feeling as though a parent no longer cares for or loves them;
Becoming numb towards family, friends, and things they use to take pleasure in;
Copying a parent’s attitude and actions in an attempt to reconnect with their parent;
Attempting to take on more than they should at their age;
Trying to fill the void in the family or a take a parent’s place;
A drop in grades, or failing in school when they use to have strong grades;
Hard time making new friends and keeping old friends;
Suddenly getting into an unusual amount of trouble and taking place in violent acts.
- See more at: http://www.familyofavet.com/secondary_ptsd_children.html#sthash.QQTIBRwq.dpuf

Secondary PTSD (STS) in Children - Signs, Symptoms, and Red Flags

39% of all children who live with a veteran who has PTSD will develop secondary PTSD or secondary traumatic stress (STS). If left untreated, STS can have lifelong consequences. Find out what signs and symptoms of secondary PTSD to watch for in your child.

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Jan 5 at 2015 3:06 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 15:06:24 -0500

This so much like what I have been going through the last year or so with my family. The damn trouble for me, it hard to get help, because the people who are seeing what happen refuse to go in with me. Largely due to the fact, that everyone labels it due to Depression, and no one wants to look or believe differently. Sad thing when sister-in-law suffers from Depression, and she is freaking expert in diagnosing all types of mental illnesses, of course so are both of sisters (including my wife). I get blamed for 90% of failing relationship with my daughter who just 13, wife refuses, to see that lot of is goes to how she been treating me to in the last year too.

I have always thought it was more in this lines than it was in general Depression. I had father who was verbally abusive, and both of my parents believe in hitting for distant discipline, or at least it felt like it while they were practicing it. It drives me crazy when my wife can sit there tell me I am exactly like my father, when she knows how much I never wanted to be like him.

No I am not trying to be Rambo, I just had bad taste left in my mouth after week or two in the Mental Ward of Womack Hospital at Fort Bragg, thanks to my Company Commander. When I got diagnosed with Depression and Anxiety. Even with this he refused to believed these were legit issues, or understand that he set up the conditions within the Company that led up to these symptoms showing, due to him believing that I had been sandbagging. Just tired of fighting over stuff, and want to find why I have so few friends....

Response by SGT Charles Vernier made Jan 5 at 2015 5:38 PM

SGT Charles Vernier — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 17:38:18 -0500

LTC Paul Labrador is correct about the secondary PTSD. There is actually clinical evidence that shows that those who deal with the victims of trauma can start show similar symptoms and behaviors of those they deal with on a regular basis. It can also be hard for friends and loved ones to understand your reactions to things that don't seem like a big deal to them.

Response by LTJG Daniel Bouysou made Jan 5 at 2015 7:11 PM

LTJG Daniel Bouysou — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 19:11:35 -0500

Contagious is the wrong word and is misleading.

Response by LTJG Daniel Bouysou made Jan 5 at 2015 7:22 PM

LTJG Daniel Bouysou — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 19:22:49 -0500

Let me say this about any mental illness. It affects everyone close to that person. Do not be an enabler but face the reality of the situation and believing things can get better with proper treatment. Start proper treatment by understanding you are not alone in your recovery, that is true also for family members, you are not alone.

Response by SFC Keith Frain made Jan 6 at 2015 11:40 AM

SFC Keith Frain — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:40:46 -0500

without sounding too critical or expressing my disdain for this topic, I will give a short synopsis of my story; and you can be the judge and jury. When I came back from Afghanistan I openly admitted that I suffered so badly and that I was shrouded in what was then PTSD, and now its just PTS.
My ex wife didn't know how to handle any of my symptoms, compiled on top of all of the surgeries that I was going through. I did the opposite when it came to being on top of my game, I chose to dive into alcohol head first... One thing that sticks out, which bothered her the most is that I literally banned all barbecuing, indoor meats being cooked, just anything that smelled like searing flesh. Long story short, whatever demons I faced on a daily basis... my ex added fuel to the

Response by SFC Keith Frain made Jan 6 at 2015 11:56 AM

SFC Keith Frain — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:56:06 -0500

Continued on with my reply. .. accidentally hit send.
After a year of living like this, I asked her to leave, I knew that counseling wasn't helping, and our Therapists agreed that my wife was toxic and getting through this wasn't going to be possible with her negatives. Now here is the kicker, in every treatment, every session, my wife stated that the fault lie on ME alone. What was the first thing she did. ... Took her ass to the battered womens shelter and claimed secondary PTSD. They even asked her to provide my paperwork, and this gave her free legal services, court filings, documentation preparation, and as it stands.. .2 years of lawyer representation. (legal counsel). Her claims of secondary PTS only flew for a short time because she only went to my appointments, and did not continue anything further. But she was locked in the system and the program allows their services to the end. so do I think that PTSD is transferable to somebody else, it very well could be, but not to the extent of a war veteran or somebody who has been through horrific traumas or witnessed such things. There's two words but I mean what is apathy and empathy... Its certainly not empathy I have for my ex....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 5:36 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 17:36:34 -0500

I do not believe PTSD it "contagious". I do believe we over diagnose it.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jan 6 at 2015 6:49 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 18:49:24 -0500

I think you bring up some great points. My personal example is a little different. Those I hang out with understand my issues and how I deal with them. They have learned how to act around me. They know if we go out that I am picky of where we sit and things like that. I spent a lot of time explaining to my 2 children as well. I would not say they are picking up things but they understand that sometimes Daddy needs to move tables and whatnot.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 10:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 22:41:45 -0500

I don't think that the disorder itself is necessarily contagious. For one thing PTSD is far more than just a simple Pavlovian response. It happens to be a full on hormonal reaction to a trigger. Even a song or smell can cause one to go into the response reaction. When this occurs then one's brain and body begin to pump the hormones that were being used when the event that caused the disorder occurred. For example a person smells cinnamon and for some reason his or her subconscious correlates that with their traumatic event then they start having a large amount of adrenaline pumping through their body. Needless to say this makes it very difficult to control due to it being a physiological response and not just a psychological one.
As for one's family, I don't believe that it is likely to cause trauma (though it is definitely possible) that will cause a loved one to get PTSD.
Let me add though, I am not a doctor or psychologist. I am posting this information from my own recollection of idle reading.

Response by LTJG Daniel Bouysou made Jan 8 at 2015 4:33 AM

LTJG Daniel Bouysou — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 04:33:46 -0500

Yep, nothing in the psychological world is cut and dried. That is why there are individual treatment plans and no quick fixes and no magic pills. Come complaint, "Doc, you do not understand what I am going through." There are a few things that are common in all treatment plans and one is "hope."

Response by LTJG Daniel Bouysou made Jan 12 at 2015 5:48 AM

LTJG Daniel Bouysou — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 05:48:52 -0500

We need to stop using the word contagious like we are dealing with the chicken pox.

Response by SGM Ed Mounts made Jan 12 at 2015 12:12 PM

SGM Ed Mounts — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 12:12:43 -0500

I do not believe it is contagious but I do believe PTSD is used as a catch all by some doctors. Instead of finding the true problem they can diagnose PTSD and send the Soldier on their way.

I do think that unfortunately there are too many veterans out there that are also trying to abuse the PTSD diagnosis for a higher VA rating. If we are looking at anything being contagious I think it is greed and the almighty dollar. This pisses me off because it detracts from those that really do suffer and need help.

I do believe that PTSD has an effect on not only the individual but for those around them from unit moral to family life which causes other problems for those around them. This is not the fault of the person with PTSD but is a result of it. I believe with proper care it is treatable and the benefits for all the individual suffering and those that are in their life are invaluable.

Just my thoughts

Response by SGT Timothy Byrd made Jan 13 at 2015 11:47 PM

SGT Timothy Byrd — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 23:47:34 -0500

Been down this road & yes I agree. Our problem becomes our family & loved ones problem because of the triggers we have.

Response by PO1 Theresa Aldrich made Jan 15 at 2015 1:25 PM

PO1 Theresa Aldrich — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 13:25:41 -0500

I've heard this from spouses mostly. It does affect our family members if someone comes up behind me and I jump they jump to, which rattles them a bit. Sometimes we are so safety aware it rubs off on our loved ones and that causes them some anxiety. Sometimes it's just annoying for loved ones. For example if someone says I'll stop by in the afternoon that does not work for me, I need to know specifically you will be here between such and such time. When my sister is coming to visit she calls to let me know she is leaving and I set a timer if she doesn't get here by the time the timer goes off I call her, no answer I start driving and looking for her. It use to annoy her more but now that she is 73 she thinks it's a good idea :-)

The thing that I try to guard against is convincing my family that the world is so unsafe that they should never leave their house, which is where I am most of the time.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 19 at 2015 4:54 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 16:54:41 -0400

The spouse and the kids are mirrors and may crack if they don't get help as the one with PTSD has turned the world upside down.

Response by CPT Tamara Brewer made Apr 20 at 2015 1:23 PM

CPT Tamara Brewer — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:23:03 -0400

My son has Secondary PTS. After reading this, it is so apparent!!

Response by SGT John Wesley made Apr 20 at 2015 4:52 PM

SGT John Wesley — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:52:49 -0400

Psychologically, it affects everyone in your family. My Dad came back from 2 tours in Vietnam and was not the same person. For a long time it was like we were walking on broken glass, noises would aggravate him and he began drinking a lot. It affected our entire family and arguments became the norm. Finally, he got some help and things got better. Now, he's been just a good man, no drinking and his temperament is pretty good. I think he realized how much it was hurting everyone, to include himself and decided he wanted to get himself back. So, yeah! Definitely secondary exists.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 7:20 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 19:20:27 -0400

I do believe that it happens. I went through a very tough time in my life. My partner had it tough also when she didn't know how to help me get better. I got the help that I needed and thanks to her for sticking with me through those tough trenches.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jun 19 at 2015 1:48 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:48:27 -0400

PTSD clearly impacts the families in many ways. I urge anyone dealing with combat PTSD (I really don't like the feel good PTS name - it leaves something out, if it's just stress, that doesn't imply problems) to read "Once a Warrior Always a Warrior" by Col MC (RET) Hoge. http://amzn.to/1QGM0YU

Once a Warrior--Always a Warrior: Navigating The Transition From Combat To Home--Including Combat...

Once a Warrior--Always a Warrior: Navigating The Transition From Combat To Home--Including Combat Stress, Ptsd, And Mtbi [Charles Hoge] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The essential handbook for anyone who has ever returned from a war zone

Response by PFC John Henry Parker made Feb 10 at 2018 8:55 AM

PFC John Henry Parker — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 08:55:01 -0500

https://vimeo.com/253862435

Part 2 Managing Triggers and Emotional Responses (Closed Captioned)

This is "Part 2 Managing Triggers and Emotional Responses (Closed Captioned)" by John Henry on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who…

Response by PFC John Henry Parker made Feb 10 at 2018 8:55 AM

PFC John Henry Parker — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 08:55:18 -0500

https://vimeo.com/253898431

Part 1: Transitioning Veterans Audiobook Explainer Video (Closed Caption)

This is "Part 1: Transitioning Veterans Audiobook Explainer Video (Closed Caption)" by John Henry on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people…