Do you ever feel like your Civilian counterparts don't "Get it"?

Sgt Dave Knight — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:57:13 -0400

Since I have been out, I have had a lot of trouble really connecting with my peers in the Civilian world. I am really working on understanding them, but I feel like there is a disconnect. No matter how hard I try to bridge the chasm, it seems impossible. How do you guys deal with this? Every other part of my transition was easy (i.e. finding a job, settling down, getting out of the military mind-set), I just don't understand why there is such a disconnect and why I can't solve the problem. It really makes me uncomfortable.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 10 at 2015 8:57 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:57:57 -0400

There is a huge divide between those that served and our civilian counterparts. Personally, I think there is a way to bridge the gap but it's different for each issue you may face. There will always be a gap, it is just up to us to figure out the best way to bridge it for that situation.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 10 at 2015 9:01 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:01:56 -0400

I'm in the same boat. I just keep my bearing, relax, and listen and try to learn them without loosing myself. I was told as the years go on, you'll accept (or gain some acceptance), with the civilian mindset.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 10 at 2015 9:10 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:10:08 -0400

It's why the saying "you can never go home" exists. You grew differently than they did. You're experiences are so contextually different, and it makes it harder to connect. The expectations you had placed on you are from one set, while the expectations placed on them were from a different set.

You are essentially a "foreigner" in your own country. The language you speak is "similar" much like English English and American English are similar. The Customs are "similar" but there is just enough difference that you are constantly translating. Like a child who speaks English fluently as a second language. Every now and then something weird will come out, like "roll of inches" instead of "tape measure."

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 9:48 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:48:45 -0400

SGT Knight, I would venture to say you truly haven't gotten out of the military mind set because you have a hard time connecting with your civilian counterparts because they have never had that military mind set

Response by LTC John Shaw made Aug 10 at 2015 9:49 AM

LTC John Shaw — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:49:21 -0400

Sgt Dave Knight Your civilian counterparts will not understand until they have to live it. A son, daughter, close family member or in-law joins or goes through military training and deployments is the closest they will ever get.
We have to adjust the civilian style and language, but you can bring in military concepts and terms and teach them as appropriate. It will take time and effort to bridge the gap, but it is worth it.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 10:04 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:04:17 -0400

Going on seven years off AD, I'm just now starting to "get" the way they think in CivCorp...I think the primary differences are summed up like this:

1) Civilians are used to compromise. From jobs to relationships, everything is about "getting by". They value conflict avoidance over conflict mastery.

2) Military people "peak" early in terms of their self-assessment. I mean c'mon, at 35, you're carrying more responsibility as an NCO or mid-grade officer than most executives in the private sector (at abysmally lower pay). We can't ever really seem to get used to being "demoted" for life.

3) Back in the recesses of their minds, civilians wanted to be us...at least just a little. Why do you think "adventure" tourism is so big? There's always going to be that feeling of "one-ups-manship" that kinda makes you feel like you have to keep "defending" your past exploits from the guy in the cubicle next door whose sporting his latest purchase from Troy Industries or running "Tough Mudder" next month.

I think it gets "easier" as you go along, but only because the realization kicks in that you're not quite what you were at 25 anymore. Since I left, my whole life's changed; I'm married to a woman I love more than life itself, expecting my first-born son this winter, and finally somewhere in my civilian career where I feel I matter. I've gained twenty pounds and lost some skill sets...but I'm at peace with the fact that somewhere, deep inside, is that same kid who did some pretty awesome stuff.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 10 at 2015 1:19 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:19:49 -0400

You have to look at it from an experienced point of view. They lead different lives than you did. I expect them to not get it. I understand that. Doesn't make us any better than them in my opinion. For us, it's now about us living in their world, rather than persuading them to live in ours.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 10 at 2015 1:36 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:36:41 -0400

I tend to look at it this way: The same as we don't seem to connect with them is the same as they don't seem to connect with us. They know you are prior military and the media has done an "awesome job" painting us to the civilian world, and that's probably the only experience and knowledge they have with the military, veterans and you. Just like anything else, its going to take some time before the trust factor kicks is in place. Totally unlike when we PCS to a new duty station, connecting is easy, even though we're the "new guy" because where ever you PCS to, everyone receiving you already know about 60% - 70% about you and who you are, and your rapid integration is important for mission readiness. In the civilian world, this is significantly less, then throw in the fact that you are a veteran, will make them even more wary. Only time will fix this, and again, unlike the military, this could be a while as "mission readiness" as we understand it, is non existent or somewhat different in some aspects of the civilian sector depending on where you are.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 10 at 2015 2:56 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 14:56:50 -0400

We go to war and the civilians go to the mall. I think they believe the wars have been going on for too long, they appreciate military members, the two thoughts conflict with each other.

Response by SSgt Charlie Keegan made Aug 10 at 2015 6:48 PM

SSgt Charlie Keegan — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:48:27 -0400

I work for the Marine Corps now, and when I teach a class with Marines in it, I let them know, yeah I was in the Chair Force not the Corps, but I will treat you guys with the utmost respect! Period! I don't expect anything back, I have to earn their respect. And usually the Chair Force comment breaks the ice. But as some have mentioned, civilians who never served, usually are the biggest pain in the ass cry babies

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Aug 10 at 2015 11:32 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 23:32:50 -0400

All the time! When I joined back in '79, Vietnam was still fresh in people's heads and most of my peers thought I was a loser for going into the military. In fact, any job in the public sector was viewed with the same amount of contempt: "Well, he couldn't hack it in the real world so he got a job with the government instead." They told me I should have gone to college -- like they did. The difference was, I didn't want to lean on my parents to pay for my college, and I did get my college while in. I didn't see the military as a career when I initially joined, but changed my mind. While my peers were still going to frat parties, I was seeing the world and defending their right to kill brain cells and badmouth the military. AND then, Desert Storm. We dismantled the world's fourth largest Army in a matter of days. All of a sudden it became cool to be in the military. AND the best part -- I have been retired for the last 15 years and most of them will still be working for 10 more years before they will be able to retire! Some folks think it's not right that the military should have such good benefits, but then again, most of them had the same opportunity to join the military and they didn't want to. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 10 at 2015 11:40 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 23:40:29 -0400

Most don't understand the cost of freedom

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Aug 11 at 2015 12:02 AM

MSG Floyd Williams — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 00:02:55 -0400

Sgt Dave Knight ....You probably feel like you're in the twilight zone, most of those who never served won't get it or just don't care.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 12:04 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 00:04:29 -0400

I'm with you. I had a co-worker ask me if I had PTSD the other day after I mentioned I spent some time in Iraq. I wanted to punch him in the throat. Instead I just changed the subject. I've had coworkers assume I'm some sort of cold-blooded killer because I'm Infantry and I've had coworkers assume because I'm ARNG that I've done nothing but sit and drink beer at my armory. It's something that they'll never understand unless they experience it. I'm fortunate that I have several Veterans that I work with, including my supervisor. I'm also a member of several Veterans organizations, which I've found a lot of value in. Most of the Vets at my local post "get it" and will have your back if need be.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Aug 11 at 2015 7:44 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:44:09 -0400

The chasm is real there is no doubt about it. Even my oldest son who just left active duty in the Marines (still in the reserves) says he cannot relate to any of the friends he had growing up or just civilians in general. I tell him to recognize that the gap exists because you have had experiences and have done things they have not and likely will not.

Use the gap to your advantage because it is an advantage. Those gaps are things like discipline, focus, attention to detail, judgment, leadership and a score of others. You have them, they do not. It is an advantage and you cannot undo it nor should you want to.

Response by Sgt Dave Knight made Aug 11 at 2015 8:05 AM

Sgt Dave Knight — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:05:44 -0400

I'd like to thank everyone for their insight on my question. It is good to know that I am not alone in the way I feel. Just to clarify, I never said that I feel the way I do because of self-righteousness or thinking I am better than my civilian counterparts. We just aren't on the same page many times on a lot of things. Again, I'm still green out here in "the World" so maybe it will take some time to become comfortable with civilian thought processes and culture.

Response by Sgt Michael Johnson made Aug 11 at 2015 1:39 PM

Sgt Michael Johnson — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:39:03 -0400

Do you ever think to yourself, "Who the hell do you think you're talking to?"? I was told by a psychiatrist that I shouldn't tell people about my life. Civilians don't get it and I tend to flip when I'm called a liar. My first wife knows, but my current wife doesn't even know who I am. Find some vet friends you can talk to.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 2:32 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:32:29 -0400

When I got out in 75, it was a lot easier simply becuse there were more veterans around in jobs and in general. Nowadays, its hard to find someone who has served or has a relative that was in the service. Civilins just can't understand the service nor do they even try anymore. Back then you coujld wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, lunch, work and maybe a drink or shopping after work. Working on your house or doing the lawn you could have run into 3-5 veterans in the corse of just living and working. NOW, you can go do the same things I mentioned in the course and maybe you might run into a veteran. I wear a hat these days, it says Marines. It rarely gets noticed by anyone. I get noticed more with a tshirt or polo shirt but still not as much. It makes a difference with how veterans are treated and recognized.

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made Aug 11 at 2015 2:41 PM

MAJ Bill Maynard — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:41:29 -0400

Either they were in, or their father, mother, brother, sister, spouse, son, daughter, or other relative or loved one was in and they understand because they were close to those who served. There are some whose daily work brings them in contact with verterans, such as the folks at VAs. We, as SMs and Vets, must continually inform and educate those who have no clue what it is like to serve...

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Aug 11 at 2015 3:16 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 15:16:18 -0400

It's not for them to totally "get". They won't every truly understand the sacrifice you went through. The best we can do is try to become the best informal leaders and teammates we can be in a civilian organization. It's what we do best....take care of those to our left and our right. Through this act of selfless teamwork and setting the example, you'll be surprised how connected you might soon feel in a civilian company.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 4:16 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:16:39 -0400

I've only been out for 1 1/2 months but I feel it too. The people at my new place of work are very friendly but there's still something in-between us. I think it goes both ways. The other day someone asked how long I'd been out. I replied with "only about a month" and he said, "oh wow, no wonder you still have a fire in your eyes." I was taken aback because I don't know what that means. Also, I recently had a BBQ with my neighbor across the street, the first time we'd really talked in two years though we lived so close. He said I sometimes appeared stand-offish so always just left it at a wave. I was thrown off with that response too. I've always put on a smile, waved, said hello, and even joked with my neighbors. I've even played basketball with his kids and have always tried to be approachable to everyone. But maybe there's something in our stride that says we've been to darker places than you and handled it. Vice versa, I don't know why some of the guys I work with now, who've been in the industry and are senior executives, can't make a decision to save their lives; why it takes weeks to do something that could be done in hours; and how when the CEO clearly has a reasonable stance on a decision backed by data, that some will argue (sometimes with clear disgust on their face) well over the line. Yet I simply smile and nod. I'm just trying to accept the divide and embrace it. They are who they are and if I know a better way, I'll share if they're willing to listen. But I'm not sure what to do about the "fire in my eyes."

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 11 at 2015 4:22 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:22:01 -0400

You ARE different... most civilians (at least in America) have never had to live for months on end without Air Conditioning... they've never seen the real poverty of a third world country... they've never been in fear for their lives and had to "suck it up" and do their jobs anyway.

Those experiences alone give you a different perspective on EVERYTHING. It's hard to experience them and then be gracious to someone who is complaining that they didn't get to go on vacation this year.

I learned to deal with it by just smiling and realize that I'm glad they never have to experience it... like when I look at my kids, and hope they never have to experience some of those things.

Gratitude and satisfaction for what we DO have are concepts hard to develop in a society that is constantly bombarded with advertisements for "things" that "will make you happy"...

It's possible to learn that satisfaction, but much more difficult if you've never seen how bad things really CAN be... mentoring people to see how good things really ARE has helped me.

Response by SFC Patricia Tucker made Aug 11 at 2015 4:27 PM

SFC Patricia Tucker — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:27:11 -0400

Been out almost 10 and still don't get it. I usually just carry on with the standards I learned in the military and sooner or later they learn that there are certain things I won't compromise on (honor, integrity, etc). It only affected me once: at a VA Remember the Vet event when civilians were given items that should have gone to VETS (T-shirts, etc). When I pushed a disabled vet to the front because the line was long and he was overheating, I had to tell the civilian volunteer what she was there for. After I moved him to the front, other Vets took their rightful place to the front. Several civilians started complaining because they had stood out in the sun for a long time. I spoke to a few who were complaining within earshot and they still didn't get it. So basically, I continued on my mission of moving the HEROES to the front. I could handle their nonsense. I am an American Solder. There is none even close to my status. So like little fruit flies, I ignored them and carried on with the mission.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Aug 11 at 2015 4:29 PM

SGT Robert Andrews — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:29:55 -0400

CIVILIANS Dont get it... I dont connect with civilians. I went into emergency services simply because they kind of get it. Murphy's laws of Combat can be applied to an extent but they dont get it. I have been told I am unqualified for a position simply because I have MILITARY not civilian experience. My college helps but breaking into the civilian job market is slow

Response by PO1 Scott Cottrell made Aug 11 at 2015 5:30 PM

PO1 Scott Cottrell — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:30:46 -0400

Well as a Military Contractor, I deal with the military every day. So, I guess I'm not yet out of the life. But, right away you can tell the contractors who are prior military from those who are not. My biggest challenge had been dealing with the Army, I though the Navy did some screwed up things, they have nothing on the Army.

Response by MSgt Jim Wolverton made Aug 11 at 2015 5:34 PM

MSgt Jim Wolverton — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:34:40 -0400

I'm lucky in the fact that in my particular job, vets are the majority not the minority. However, retirees like myself aren't very common and many of the vets I run into in my job have nothing good to say about their time in the military. My experience was completely different and there is a bit of a divide between us, but not the same as with civilians.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Aug 11 at 2015 5:35 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:35:41 -0400

Yes, I know why. They CAN'T relate. Service is a brotherhood. Brother and sister warriors alike I know my 6 is covered. With civilians I KNOW my 6 is MY responsibility. And that's fine as long as I know.

I had 6 years and 6 PCS. It was the same everywhere, maybe stronger overseas. The tougher the objective, the stronger the team. On a five person team even one absence for leave or Sick Bay that's a 20% RIF!

It gets better with time but it's a painfully long time. I read that 1% serve but at my church on Memorial Day all veterans, Active Duty, Guard or Reserve are called onstage. The 10 of us comprise 5% of the congregation of 250. Of course that spans 5 generations from the Korean Conflict, WWII, Viet Nam then Iraq and Afghanistan. That pretty much covers the 1% of US warriors who enter into active duty.

If you have served or, are going to soon, Thank You for your service!.

Response by A1C Chris Green made Aug 11 at 2015 6:55 PM

A1C Chris Green — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:55:18 -0400

Yeah, I've been out since '81, there is a disconnect and always has been. You chose to stand up and serve with a very elite group of people. The only folks I ever did connect with were other vets. We are an exclusive club, not just anybody gets in.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 7:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:38:38 -0400

The trick is to let them in to your world. Introduce them to the customs and courtesies that made you Loyal and Courageous. Remind them that there is such a thing as just "jobbing it" in the military. We do live a day to day life when we aren't downrange. One thing I did last year was gather all of the veterans in my department on Veterans Day and invited the rest of the department to recognize their service by having some fellowship time during a pot-luck lunch. We laughed and carried on with everyone and I think it cleared some questions as to what makes us tick. Remember that you are the one that is going to need to change. No one is going to stand at parade rest for you, they aren't going to give you a "three bags full" answer to questions you ask. Remember that as an Army NCO you upheld a creed which called you a consummate professional.

Response by SGT Tom Kelly made Aug 11 at 2015 8:50 PM

SGT Tom Kelly — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 20:50:50 -0400

What do you feel is the disconnect?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 11 at 2015 9:21 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:21:34 -0400

Are you in a good ole boy network now?

Response by SSG Leslie Hobgood made Aug 11 at 2015 11:41 PM

SSG Leslie Hobgood — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 23:41:32 -0400

Sad thing is, they'll never understand until they'll stood in your combat boots.....just plain and simple fact. I've stopped trying to understand them and trying to get them to understand me....like trying to teach a zombie to be human again.....

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 11 at 2015 11:47 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 23:47:32 -0400

Well, I have a 100% service-connected disability: mental illness. A friend in church told me that he was afraid of me. That Really HURT. I felt totally abnormal; and Totally disconnected from him.

Response by PO1 Jim May made Aug 12 at 2015 6:32 AM

PO1 Jim May — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 06:32:28 -0400

I have been retired for almost 16 years and I still have a hard time connecting with my counterparts. This me me me mentality just kills me. Everything is a competition and no one seems to have or want a TEAM mentality!

Response by PO3 David Fries made Aug 12 at 2015 6:40 AM

PO3 David Fries — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 06:40:49 -0400

I have been out for 16 years as of this month, and I still don't fully understand civilians. I don't understand the work ethic (or more specifically, the lack there of). I still miss having Brothers/Sisters versus coworkers/employees.

Response by MAJ Charles Ray made Aug 12 at 2015 7:20 AM

MAJ Charles Ray — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:20:54 -0400

This is nothing new. When I retired in 1982 and joined the Foreign Service, my colleagues, although all of them had extensive overseas experience, didn't have a clue what life in the military was like. I found that patiently explaining things helped (sometimes), and ignoring their ignorance at others, was the only way to deal with it. Even 33 years later, I find myself having to explain the military to some of my civilian friends. It's worse these days because so few people have any contact or experience with the military beyond what they see on TV.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 8:26 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:26:46 -0400

I feel the same way. I got out of the service to be home more with my family, have my "dream career" and I don't regret it one bit, but I feel like I am missing that almost instant connection that I have always experienced in the military. Every time I think I am on the right track, something goes awry. I am a female engineer and I was a Seabee, I never had trouble proving my equality to the male Seabees, but in the civilian world I definitely feel the glass ceiling. I don't know how to get the civilian world to view me as equal...to "get it/me"

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Aug 12 at 2015 11:24 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:24:14 -0400

I went back to college just a few days after separating from the Marines & was so busy working part time and going to classes that I didn't really have much time to worry about adjusting to civilian life.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Aug 12 at 2015 11:46 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:46:14 -0400

Sgt Dave Knight I have always worked in a para-military environment since getting out (with the exception of the year it took to get there), so the transition for me was not that bad from Active Marines to Civilian. I have encountered plenty of folks who have never been around the military, who are a little put off, and you can sense it. Especially, when you have been in for a lifetime, it shows on how you carry yourself, how you act, things you say, etc. That is always disconcerting, because the difference between a Veteran and a non-Veteran is that one was willing to write that blank check for something he/she believed in, and the other was not. My experience is that folks who have served, make better employees, because they know what it really means for things to "suck", so they appreciate things more.
One of the difficulties in transitioning for employment is that military has chain of command ingrained, where civilian does not. We understand the hierarchy and assimilate into it, strive to excel, it is how you were programmed.
Most of my non-military associates appreciate the service, even though sometimes it makes things difficult because of deployments and activations and training requirements, but they recognize the necessity of it, and I have not had any major issues, with the exception of one boss, who believe it or not was a Ranger-he just did not like dealing with Guard/Reserve needs, and had to be educated.

As far as dealing with the lack of understanding, I just try and educate them on how things work, and where I am coming from, and try to be patient. I tend to be very direct, type-A, and deal with issues rather than avoid, which is common in the civilian world where conflict resolution is typically done by avoidance. Because I am still in the Guard, I keep my bosses fully involved in what I have going on, and communicate with them as soon as I am able, and I think that helps.

Response by SPC LaNita Herlem made Aug 12 at 2015 1:58 PM

SPC LaNita Herlem — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:58:08 -0400

This wasn't a big issue with me when i got out because, as a military spouse, I remained in the military community. I saw it with my husband when he got out though. He made friends only to find out they talked about him behind his back, saying he bragged to much about all the things he has done... my husband was a very humble man and never bragged. He just talked about what he knew, which was the military. They were jealous. My husband became very unhappy and started closing up. It took him 5 years in the NG and Reserves, but he eventually made it back to active duty. Everything about him changed. He loved it more the 2nd time around because he had something to compare it to. This was back in the 90s prior to 9/11 and all the deployments. I can't imagine the disconnect now...

The civilian-military disconnect did not hit me until 2009 when I left Ft. Hood to move closer to my family. I lost my husband in an IED attack in 2006 in Baghdad, Iraq. I have to go online to social media and connect with other military widows and my military friends, because civilians don't get it. I simply cannot understand why the Kardashians are more important than ISIS. I have come to see the civilian world as a fragile bubble that the military protects... like a parent who protects its child from everything bad in the world. The disconnect is real and you can see it very clearly on social media. Like the shooting in Chattanooga. Every single one of my military connected friends were commenting on it, posting about it. My civilian friends went on with their lives... I have often wondered if I need to move back to a military community in order to really feel like I belong.

Response by CPT Jason Mitchell, MBA made Aug 12 at 2015 6:29 PM

CPT Jason Mitchell, MBA — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:29:59 -0400

I know exactly how you feel. I've been a civilian for 3 years and the biggest eye opener was the lack of true teamwork. While I know that my three bosses are all good people, excel at their individual role, and understand how the industry works, I just can't get over how little they know about actually leading, mentoring, and communicating. As far as peers go, I've had a few that were happy people with no backstabbing intent and who just want to stay put in their little cubicle and be left alone. The worst was my eye opening 20 something coworker who was a MESS. I didn't grow up with sisters or brothers, and was always combat arms. So, being around 20 something men/women that didn't call me sir or rely on me to have their back was a transition. This person, though, couldn't have found her way out of a wet paper bag. My point is, you don't know what you are getting in to until you already have stepped out the door into the situation. It will become apparent to you, quite quickly, that there is a TON of information you must assimilate into your brain when you begin working in a new industry. However, the ingrained leadership, managing, and task accomplishment abilities become even more apparent as you see how your peers and managers operate. If you look at it as a low paying internship, then your entire purpose is to learn as much about how the civilian business world operates, compare your leadership and work style to others, and make sure to never let them remove your sense of accomplishment that you've earned. Oh, and if you have a young client see your awards on your desk and ask if you've ever killed anyone; just do as I did...and tell him, "only the last person who asked me that".

Response by SPC Trinity Downing made Aug 12 at 2015 9:12 PM

SPC Trinity Downing — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:12:59 -0400

I have been out 23 years, I was in for 7. I still feel the disconnect between me and the civilians. Always remember that even after 7 years I did more then the 50 -60 year old employees. I do also work at a company that has a very large veteran group. You will be good just be yourself and you will make it.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 13 at 2015 4:37 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:37:48 -0400

Every. Single. Day.

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Aug 13 at 2015 8:13 AM

Sgt Ken Prescott — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:13:07 -0400

They don't get it, and they never will get it.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 11:11 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:11:45 -0400

I would say "Don't care about it". The shit they stress out on is actually trivial. My favorite sayings are "No one is shooting at us, relax" and "the sun will still come tomorrow".

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Aug 13 at 2015 2:39 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:39:24 -0400

no.

Response by Sgt Donald W Zech made Aug 13 at 2015 4:45 PM

Sgt Donald W Zech — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:45:00 -0400

after I became a former marine pride was all I had.then tried to talk to civilians and they asked things I realy did not want to answer,that was 1958.i still get the same bs questions and still cant answer,marine sgt zech

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2015 3:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 15:16:17 -0400

I have a hard time also and my friends try to compare me with other military families and the only similarity we really have is that we were both military. Not the same family circumstance, not the same branch, MOS, or time in. The whole they can do it so you should be able to also doesn't make any real sense, I'm not them. It takes some creative positivity and a lot of time outs. Everything has to be well thought out, well planned, and always have easy access to a support channel.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 2:09 AM

LtCol Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 02:09:47 -0400

A Marine has no civilian counterparts.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jun 12 at 2017 4:31 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 04:31:27 -0400

Some civilians don't get it and others do. I think even some still don't get it but say they do hoping that will keep me from elaborating on it too much..

Response by SPC Tino Valentine made Feb 2 at 2020 11:09 PM

SPC Tino Valentine — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 23:09:36 -0500

There’s a presence, an aura that doesn’t go away. It’s what makes people say “you were in the military, weren’t you” just by looking at how you move, how you carry yourself.
There’s a darkness that the uninitiated find unsettling. I was reminded of that recently after making a joke, and someone jumped down my throat because what I said was, to a civvie, kind of offensive.
There’s a sense of security in being around others that have served, and it transcends era and disposition: that if we’re together and things go sideways, we’ll know what to do to push our way through to the other side.