Do you find the term "butter bar" offensive or demeaning?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:19:18 -0400

As a newly minted O-1 I have no problem with the term, but some of my fellow ENS/LTs have been scolded for using it. I never considered the term a pejorative when I was enlisted and I still don't now that I'm on the officer side. I always thought it was sort of a rite of passage that goes along with being a new Officer. Am I missing something? Do you consider the term disrespectful or demeaning?

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Jun 10 at 2017 12:28 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:28:03 -0400

It seems to fit some... other are more like margarine...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 12:45 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:45:39 -0400

Gold is always Junior and I'm a major so now it's gold again for an entry-level field grade officer

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jun 10 at 2017 12:55 PM

SN Greg Wright — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:55:37 -0400

Seems to me that any ossifer that gets insulted by this needs to lighten up. And certainly is one I wouldn't want to work for. I put this in the same category as Naval officers that don't like being called Sailors. wtf?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 1:03 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:03:12 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I agree with you, that it is a right of passage.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Jun 10 at 2017 2:24 PM

LT Brad McInnis — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 14:24:03 -0400

Frankly, if an officer finds it offensive then there is probably a reason (hint: the officer is the one that is offensive). In all my time, I found that enlisted service members are fair. If you treat them with common decency you will get the same. The officers I found that had problems, had problems because they were the problem.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 3:37 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:37:18 -0400

Butter Bar. Jarhead. Squid. Dogface. POG. REMF. Puddle Jumper. Chair Force. Personally, if any of those names offends anyone in those categories, then their skin is a little too thin for this type of work and should probably seek life elsewhere. We either kills things or support those that kill things. If those names offends people, then how are they going to act/react when the bullets fly and the IEDs go off?

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Jun 10 at 2017 4:08 PM

SPC Todd Hanson — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 16:08:40 -0400

I would say those service members are being over sensitive and need their safe space lol

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 7:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 19:10:00 -0400

I'm Mosquito Wings so I say get over it.
A Captain is a Double Lieutenant, there's nicknames for everything and we jab each other.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jun 10 at 2017 8:00 PM

1LT William Clardy — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 20:00:34 -0400

Q: What has a soldier wearing mosquito wings accomplished that a butter bar hasn't?
A: He's been promoted.
If you can't ridicule yourself every now and then, you will never learn one of the most effective ways to overcome fear and stress.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Jun 10 at 2017 8:08 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 20:08:50 -0400

Not really. I had 27 years of being an NCO behind me. I know what my goal is and it doesn't have much to do with anyone's opinion of me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 9:08 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 21:08:21 -0400

I find myself wondering if we should honor the only other bronze colored rank by calling 0-4s something like "butter pats"

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 10 at 2017 9:10 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 21:10:29 -0400

Butter Bar is Much Better than Enswine. Which is What You would be Called int he Navy!

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Jun 10 at 2017 10:00 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:00:12 -0400

I believe it is mostly giving an inexperienced 2nd Lt. a hard time similar to how young privates are sent to the flight line to get a bucket of rotor wash. The teeth to the phrase is that they are saying the the Lt is inexperienced, but with all ribbing it's funny because there is truth to it.

I believe it is to the Lt's best interest to realize that experience can be more important in the military than rank, take it with good nature and humor, learn from the officer's and NCO's around them and I suspect before long no one will be calling them butter bar anymore.

Response by SGT Michael Smith made Jun 10 at 2017 10:23 PM

SGT Michael Smith — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:23:55 -0400

Haha.. Nope

Response by SGT Michael Smith made Jun 10 at 2017 10:29 PM

SGT Michael Smith — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:29:08 -0400

Yes. I worked for a living.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 10 at 2017 10:39 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:39:37 -0400

Don't worry about what it is. Focus on the implications on what it does. Hint: Gold attracts shit. Happens twice in O'dom. O-1s and O-4s almost universally will relate to this aspect. Go forward and deal with it.

Response by PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson made Jun 11 at 2017 12:42 AM

PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:42:41 -0400

I always saw the term 'butter bar' as being like a nickname, which is very disrespectful UP the chain. The newest Ensign was always called "Bull" for us, though (it was also engraved on their rank insignia), so I guess we just have different nicknames.

Response by SGT Eric Knutson made Jun 11 at 2017 12:46 AM

SGT Eric Knutson — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:46:33 -0400

I think I will have to agree with LT Brad McInnis, and as the poll results here show, I think everyone else (almost) agree with the basis of it as well. The 2LT is very much like a private, you got through class and made it here to the real world, now it is time to show that you actually deserve that rank. Once your guys get to know you, the term will change for better or worse. If the officer who was complaining reads this, (most figure this out if they are not told outright by CoC) it is your MEN who will write your OER through their actions and performance. This applies to NCO's as well, so I am not saying that we got out of it.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Jun 11 at 2017 4:07 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 04:07:08 -0400

Like anything else it depends on who is saying it and the context it's used in.

Response by CPT Nicholas D. made Jun 11 at 2017 6:47 AM

CPT Nicholas D. — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 06:47:34 -0400

There is no reason we can't laugh at ourselves from time to time. At my commissioning ceremony, my twin brother, an E7, shook my hand and said "How's it going Big Butter?" I may have repeated that nickname a few times. It is all in good fun.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Jun 11 at 2017 12:32 PM

MSgt Mark Bucher — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:32:35 -0400

no. 2Lts as a rule need a Sr.NCO to teach and mentor them

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Jun 11 at 2017 7:02 PM

LTC Patrick Turner — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 19:02:42 -0400

Perhaps it might be disrespectful in the CONTEXT that it is used. When used in a lighthearted manner, while not calling out the officer, it would be ok in my estimation. Use a reasoned approach. Don't use it to an officer in front of his/her men, in formation, or in an arrogant matter.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2017 7:11 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 19:11:43 -0400

No more than "lipstick bars" that USMC WO/CWO's were sometimes referred to as. It comes with the territory and usually bears no measure of disrespect. If you were afloat in USN you could look forward to being the senior Ensign. Then you become the Bull Ensign and besides getting to wear the large engraved collar bars that are passed down, you get all the rights and privileges afforded aboard that ship. Like bringing the smoking lamp in to the Mess after a ceremonial meal or whatever traditions the ship has upheld. It could be worse - you could be a Wog and have a day of fun crossing the Equator. Don't sweat it, you'll be a 1stLt before long if you do your job and keep your nose clean. Have fun and good luck.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 12 at 2017 12:54 AM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:54:52 -0400

Yes and no, but it is what it is... CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 12:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 12:44:25 -0400

If that offends someone they are going to have a tough time in the real world.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Jun 12 at 2017 1:07 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:07:59 -0400

Butter Bar remains an entry Level position, a Rookie learning the way of the force. Training wheels for the day, they earn Leadership skills

Response by PO3 John Keas made Jun 12 at 2017 1:11 PM

PO3 John Keas — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:11:03 -0400

I am sure there are O1s that don't fit the moniker 'Butter Bar"...but I never met one personally

Response by Capt Jim McLaurin made Jun 12 at 2017 1:11 PM

Capt Jim McLaurin — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:11:21 -0400

It is what it is.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Jun 12 at 2017 1:12 PM

CW4 Scott Hyde — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:12:05 -0400

If something as trivial as butter bar offends then the offended is going to have a long career full of being offended. When the offended is no longer a butter bar and use the term, then we have moved from offended status to hypocrite. Spend less time worrying about being offended over the smallest things and work on your profession or find a profession where you can focus on being offended without impacting the mission.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 1:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:35:04 -0400

Who gives a shit!

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 12 at 2017 1:54 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:54:18 -0400

In truth, any 2LT that is offended is more of concern to me than I realized before considering reading this question. IF you want to be an officer in our military and you have time to give 'butter bar' a second of thought, you may need to rethink your career paths?

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Jun 12 at 2017 1:54 PM

Sgt Joseph Baker — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:54:28 -0400

When I served in the Corps it referred to the gold insignia and that they were a new officer. Most Marines didn't use it like an insult.

Response by SPC Ricky Lockard made Jun 12 at 2017 1:58 PM

SPC Ricky Lockard — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:58:22 -0400

Not at all disrespectful or demeaning. It is what it is. In fact, as a former enlisted soldier, I have fond memories of literally crossing the street at Fort Sam Houston, just to salute any "Butter Bar" observed carrying books in their right hand. Hahaha

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 2:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:24:33 -0400

I am of the opinion that if you are offended by that term, then perhaps you need to find another line of work. One of my favorites is "Spot" for new warrants. The fact that many of them were former enlisted allows for them to have thicker skin and not get so offended.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jun 12 at 2017 2:29 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:29:14 -0400

"Butter Bar" = Not offensive. If the term offends any 2ndLt/Ensign, might be a good time to review your career choice.

Response by SGT Eric Hawkins made Jun 12 at 2017 2:43 PM

SGT Eric Hawkins — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:43:39 -0400

Well, sirs and ma'ams...I hate to tell y'all it isn't going anywhere. I'm sure that the term "Buck Sergeant" is still used.

Response by CPT Blane Kusterle made Jun 12 at 2017 3:33 PM

CPT Blane Kusterle — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:33:18 -0400

You're in the Army...your feelings are irrelevant.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Jun 12 at 2017 3:36 PM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:36:37 -0400

If the Military starts gettingto a point where they need a safe space, we are all in trouble, the fact is that there are only 2 ranks in the Army that are Gold, that's because both have no real jobs and are just waiting for commands

Response by COL John McClellan made Jun 12 at 2017 3:40 PM

COL John McClellan — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:40:28 -0400

Yup, it's totally pejorative...as are many other military slang terms "of endearment." It's a challenge to the newcomer that sort of says, OK - now earn my respect, new LT!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 4:21 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 16:21:30 -0400

Give them a woobie and them to go suck their thumb in a corner if the term butter bar is offensive to them.

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made Jun 12 at 2017 6:05 PM

CW3 Clayton C. — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:05:45 -0400

I find it pretty close to the terms used for WO1's. Spot, Dot, and Wobbly One are my personal favorites. Do I call anyone these terms? No. Did I take offense when I was called any of these? Of course not. I've been called worse names by better people.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 12 at 2017 6:50 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:50:55 -0400

Those who are so easily offended have chosen the wrong profession. The US Armed Forces exist to defeat our enemies whatever the situation. Sometimes that involved harsh language followed by even more harsh actions. Learn to adapt or get gone.

I've been called Zoomie, Chair Force, FNG, and others. I take them all with a chuckle and move out smartly. What do I care if some Jarhead, POG, or REMF wants to call me names?

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 12 at 2017 7:04 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 19:04:57 -0400

I agree with you. I never saw the term as disrespectful. I always saw it as a play on what the rank looked like. Granted as an enlisted I would never call them a butter bar, but that's not because I find the term disrespectful. It's just because addressing them as Sir or Ma'am would be the respectful thing to do.

Everyone starts at the bottom somewhere. If an O-1 finds the term butterbar offensive or demeaning, then he should take a good look at your average E-1 because aside from Sailors, most E-1s don't even rate to wear a rank on their collars. At least the O-1 gets something to put on his collar every day.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Jun 12 at 2017 10:52 PM

PO1 Jack Howell — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 22:52:19 -0400

Tell them to get a thicker skin and to stopping acting like a bunch of bitches about it.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Jun 12 at 2017 11:07 PM

LTC Russ Smith — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 23:07:00 -0400

To refer to a 2LT as a butter bar in a private conversation is fine. To their face is disrespectful. It's not Article 15 stuff, but it's really derogatory. I was enlisted for six years and demoted from Sergeant to 2LT. My platoon sergeant said I was a margarine bar - not the real thing!

Response by SGT Woodrow Greenfeather made Jun 12 at 2017 11:14 PM

SGT Woodrow Greenfeather — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 23:14:13 -0400

All a butter bar is,is an overpaid private. Unless he was former enlisted and went to the dark side.

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Jun 13 at 2017 12:17 AM

TSgt Denise Moody — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 00:17:57 -0400

If being called a butter bar is offensive to a new officer they better rethink their choice of career. They get to be a butter bar until they get promoted to a looie, and after that they have railroad tracks.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jun 13 at 2017 12:28 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 00:28:15 -0400

No! I ain't one!

Response by PFC Robert Boone made Jun 13 at 2017 11:49 AM

PFC Robert Boone — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 11:49:42 -0400

I thought it was FUBAR or cream puff.

Response by LTC Jess Capel made Jun 13 at 2017 11:57 AM

LTC Jess Capel — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 11:57:08 -0400

No worse than "buck" Sergeant, "light" Colonel

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 13 at 2017 3:17 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:17:06 -0400

Lighten up francis!!!! Not disrespectul or demeaning at all

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jun 13 at 2017 4:44 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:44:03 -0400

Technically it is a mild pejorative the way that it's used for the most part. Like anything in life it depends on its context. Like if I were to say he's just a fucking butterbar, it would be an insult. If on the other hand I were to say, "You're still a butter bar?", it wouldn't be. Much the same way that 1LTs are often called chocolate bars and a CPTs insignia is often called railroad tracks.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2017 8:09 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 20:09:36 -0400

Parkay...

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Jun 13 at 2017 11:39 PM

PO1 Michael G. — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:39:31 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I think it's less about a rite of passage than it is about context, sir. There's any number of slang terms that I wouldn't think twice about using when having a conversation with any my fellow "blue shirts" (a term which originated when E-6 and below in the Navy wore blue chambray shirts and dungarees, while Chiefs and officers wore khaki working uniforms), but that wouldn't be appropriate when speaking to the Chief of the Boat or my department head. From your description that some O-1s have been scolded, it sounds like a senior person overheard the term being used by a junior officer; in that case, the use of slang could be perceived as a little unprofessional or unbecoming, especially if it's overheard by the wrong people.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 10:26 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:26:47 -0400

I'm not in the Military yet but I feel as though if you're in and you let menial things like a name bother you, then maybe you don't have thick enough skin to be in the position you're currently in, but then again, like I said before, I'm not anyone yet so my opinion doesn't really matter

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 1:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:41:52 -0400

Situation dictates. I've used it to describe a cherry 2LT that's still getting wet behind the ears in a loving, joking sense. I've also used it to describe one of those freshly commissioned 2LTs that are charging around everywhere hunting for salutes.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Jun 14 at 2017 11:35 PM

MSgt George Cater — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:35:55 -0400

Yes, it is somewhat disrespectful. So what?

Response by SSgt Dale Wysinger made Jun 17 at 2017 11:12 AM

SSgt Dale Wysinger — Sat, 17 Jun 2017 11:12:32 -0400

Give me a break! What, now we cry about WORDS in the Military?? This term has been used as far back as I can remember! Depending on the INDIVIDUAL, it can be a put down, or just descriptive. If the newly thinks they are "all that" just because they have the "O-" in front of their pay grade, it is definitely a put down. It is the individual who determines the quality of the descriptive!!

Response by 2LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2017 4:59 PM

2LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jun 2017 16:59:00 -0400

I have had numerous people call be a butter bar. If someone is upset by it then thats on them. It is like the term POG. Yeah not the most professional thing to say because we all have a job to do but it should never be given or recieved as a sign of disrepect.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 4:19 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:19:35 -0400

It wasn't offensive or demeaning until I became one, I wouldn't say I find it rude, I just personally do not like it coming from being a SSG to a 2LT. After 13 years of being in and now people call me a butter- bar...not exactly a term I feel I deserve. But do I get mad? No, unless it's coming from someone I already know to be a dirtbag.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 4:37 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:37:14 -0400

Hi Sir,
I would say that the answer depends stringently on what words flank "Butter Bar".

E.g.,
"Congrats 2LT Beggs! Well done to our newest Butter Bar!"= Good to go!
"Where is that slacker, Jones? Typical f-n Butter Bar." or "Don't listen to that soup-sandwich. She's just a Butter Bar."= Not so much.
:) :)

Congrats, Sir!! Well done. :)

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jul 10 at 2017 2:32 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 14:32:45 -0400

I have heard the term "Golden Private". Were I a 2nd LT, I'd probably prefer "Butter Bar".

Response by LTJG Edward Bangor Jr made Jul 10 at 2017 4:32 PM

LTJG Edward Bangor Jr — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:32:51 -0400

I think it is tied up in context. I've seen a few 2nd-tour division officers (read: JOs who've been in a grand total of 2 years longer than the most recent college/OCS grads) who loved to talk down to "butter bars" and used the rank disparity as a way of inflating their own egos. At the same time, I enjoyed a few late watches where my balls were busted for being an O-1 by a boatswain who took jokes back at him in total stride and we ended up being a much more efficient watch team for it. If you try to use something as an insult, it is an insult. There is a difference between good-natured ribbing and being a jerk.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 20 at 2017 2:16 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:16:45 -0400

Seriously, are you a Soldier, capable of fighting Americas enemies and protecting her interests, or are you an emotionally stunted child running to a safe space? getting tired of all this politically correct bovine fecal matter going around, Hurt feelings is part of the game, get used to it.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 20 at 2017 2:31 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:31:19 -0400

look at it from this standpoint - a 2LT is the private of the officer corps, yes, you may have a few academic courses in leadership, but your practical experience is almost non existant. Most times, you will need to have your hand held by your PSG, or a 1LT, couple that with the fact that a large majority of new officers have illusions of granduer. Yes, you are the Platoon Leader, but do not ever think you run the platoon. Your Job at this point is to learn how what you learned in classes is applied practically. in a Platoon, your PSG, and Squad Leaders have a combined 40+ years of experience, what do you have compared to that? I am not saying for you to not have input, but when they speak, pay careful heed to what they are saying.

Response by CPL Eric Amsden made Aug 23 at 2017 9:52 PM

CPL Eric Amsden — Wed, 23 Aug 2017 21:52:27 -0400

It is what it is

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 7 at 2017 3:16 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 03:16:41 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, I agree with you completely.

It beats the alternative "Airman Basic with a college degree".

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 7 at 2017 12:49 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 12:49:55 -0400

You should hear what we REALLY call 'em

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Oct 16 at 2017 5:00 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:00:48 -0400

You got the nail on the head - it’s a right of passage... Just like a spot Warrant as I used to joke with my father! At the end of the day, the salute was rendered and the individual is called Sir or Ma’am in a respectful and kind manner... Every rank, badge, tab has its own associated fun within and that’s what makes the comradre in the military Brotherhood standout bar-none!

Response by SPC Alan Richardson made Nov 15 at 2017 6:10 AM

SPC Alan Richardson — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:10:27 -0500

No, when i was active duty i was called a lot worse by my NCOs and peers...we were men, and men pick at each other.

Response by PVT Jay Settell made Nov 15 at 2017 6:35 AM

PVT Jay Settell — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:35:06 -0500

I see it as a right of passage for the 90 day wonders of ocs kinda like tying the new Lt to the guntube of my tank after his first gunnery

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2017 7:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 07:14:55 -0500

Depends on the context. I don't think it's intended to be disrespectful most of the time, though.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Nov 18 at 2017 2:14 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 14:14:17 -0500

And for some reason "wobbly one" didn't make the cut. I look at it from the perspective of being an honor to have been referred to as a wobbly one. Maybe because I had to go through years (actually almost 2 decades to get to be pinned) You have a commission form the President of the United States, and you are griping about a term that has been used for how many generations. Sorry LT it is a temporary thing, would you perhaps refer to some things I Have heard other officers refer to 2LT's as something to the effect of "@$%^@ butter bar?"

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2017 3:43 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 15:43:31 -0500

Its all a part of the process. Take it with a good attitude and it will be just fine. When I became a 2LT I thought I was hot stuff for a few minutes and then realized I wasn't; I was once again the bottom rung. You have a TON to learn and good NCOs and other officers will help you get there.

Response by SPC Michael Williams made Nov 20 at 2017 3:49 AM

SPC Michael Williams — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 03:49:24 -0500

Not really any different than an E1/E2 just out of training being referred to as CHERRY

Response by SPC Nanette Porter made Nov 22 at 2017 1:22 PM

SPC Nanette Porter — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:22:16 -0500

There is all sorts of nicknames for things in the military in all ranks and branches and I don't see what the problem is. you do your job and treat people with respect no matter hew you are everything will work out. Something people have a tendency to forget is that respect is erned not just handed to you or pined on you.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 2:23 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 14:23:59 -0500

It helped me grow a pair. When i was a new 2LT I needed a crusty E7 to keep me in check. You will hate it when it happens, and some 2LTs will become attrition statistics, but the rest of you will become like family with them. Look back and appreciate the guidance they gave you for success. This is not the Coast Guard, Air Force, or Navy; the experiences of NCOs are the backbone of the Army. I stand at the back of the chow line and feel honored to do so~ they are the muscle that storms the machine-gun bunker so they need the best calories. Baseball-sized strawberries, crab legs, and white-gloved Enlisted waiters (in "separate" dining areas) are for officers of THE OTHER branches. AND THEY WERE NEVER called butterbars. Butterbar is an honor. I had the priviledge of a few great ones; they were not egotistical and still managed to lead some great feats. I admit, it is a confusing balance for a new officer, but it matures you as quick as the water from firehose allows.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Nov 24 at 2017 3:12 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 15:12:16 -0500

I would think it to be no more offensive than the term rookie, Everybody had to start somewhere. Its one of the steps Officers pass through on the rise up the ranks and hopefully learn the proper things to become a more effective officer and leader. Its like any job, You learn as You advance and gain experience.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 8:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:46:15 -0500

Fuzzy, buck sergeant,...

Response by CPL Brad Greene made Nov 25 at 2017 4:41 PM

CPL Brad Greene — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:41:09 -0500

Depends upon the context of use. In the line of duty it's disrespectful.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2017 4:42 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:42:51 -0500

I accidentally clicked the disrespectful button....so you can drop one off of that column.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Nov 25 at 2017 5:59 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 17:59:45 -0500

If an Enlisted soldier says it in public, I would say, it is being disrespectful to the Officer and his rank. Besides, you do not want to burn bridges...that "butterbar" might be your next Company Commander!...I've seen it happen!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2017 7:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 19:30:02 -0500

I had it explained to me by a 1SG a few years back so here goes. . .

A Lieutenant is a rank
A 0-1 or 0-2 is also a Lieutenant but refers to there pay grade
A PL is a platoon leader referring to a position not a Lieutenant or an 0-1 or 0-2
An LT is an abbreviation which doesn’t pay proper respect for the bearer of the rank
A butter bar is bought at the grocery store now go find me Lieutenant “insert name” and he is a Lieutenant to anyone he out ranks until he becomes a captain.

Response by Deb Keller made Nov 25 at 2017 8:56 PM

Deb Keller — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 20:56:48 -0500

Just nicknames. No harm, no foul. If you gonna be in a branch of service then you better get used to the names. If they offend you, well then put your big boy/big girl pants on and deal with it.

Response by 1LT David Chase made Nov 25 at 2017 9:53 PM

1LT David Chase — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:53:25 -0500

Response by CPT Joe Drozd made Nov 25 at 2017 11:33 PM

CPT Joe Drozd — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:33:39 -0500

I was enlisted for six years before becoming an officer. I think it's just all part of the territory and tradition...

Response by SPC James Delanoix made Nov 26 at 2017 12:26 AM

SPC James Delanoix — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:26:22 -0500

Response by SGT Derrick Gordon made Nov 26 at 2017 3:19 AM

SGT Derrick Gordon — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 03:19:21 -0500

What the LT can't hear shouldn't bother them.

Response by SFC Frank Cranford made Nov 26 at 2017 5:51 AM

SFC Frank Cranford — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 05:51:25 -0500

We have names for every profession in the military, in my 24 years of active service,I’ve served with many great butter bars as well as some not so great. An effective leader needs to be able to laugh at their self, as another comment said leaders lead by earning respect.

Response by PO1 Riley Greenwood made Nov 26 at 2017 7:38 AM

PO1 Riley Greenwood — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:38:36 -0500

Well said Sir,

In the Navy (At least Submarines because that is what I know), the Senior Ensign is known as the “Bull Ensign” and wears a larger butter bar. The insignia is passed f on to the next “Bull” when he/she makes JG. I have been out for 17 1/2 years, I still work for the Navy with Submarines and recently say an Officer with Bull Bars so the tradition still stands.

Response by SFC Gary Hembree made Nov 26 at 2017 8:26 AM

SFC Gary Hembree — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:26:47 -0500

Its been a tradition for years. Snowflakes need to get over it.

Response by SGM Steven Corey made Nov 26 at 2017 8:43 AM

SGM Steven Corey — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:43:23 -0500

When I Retired as a Sgt. Major I could here Solders, Marine’s ,Sailors and Airmen say HERE COMES THE ( SMAG) and I Loved It When given Names associated with Military Rank it is a Military Thing And has been for Many Many Years . So if You are offended Then Correct Find a New Profession , I am Sure any 4 BANGER Out will Agree With Me .

Response by SP5 H.K. Woody made Nov 26 at 2017 9:35 AM

SP5 H.K. Woody — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:35:24 -0500

It is a descriptive term for a newly minted officer with no field combat experience. If asked, most would admit that the assistance of an experienced NCO was invaluable to their development.

Response by SPC Adam Hamann made Nov 26 at 2017 9:42 AM

SPC Adam Hamann — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:42:29 -0500

No difference in being called a butter bar or a fuzzy private if you get butt hurt over sometime like that than get the hell out of the military we don't need pansy's serving our country

Response by PO3 William Carrien made Nov 26 at 2017 10:27 AM

PO3 William Carrien — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:27:02 -0500

I consider it a term of endearment, a part of a brotherhood.

Response by Ian Good made Nov 26 at 2017 12:44 PM

Ian Good — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:44:28 -0500

I’ve never heard the term butter bar

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2017 12:46 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:46:24 -0500

It was not offensive.

Response by SSgt Francisco Rosario made Nov 26 at 2017 3:13 PM

SSgt Francisco Rosario — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 15:13:45 -0500

Not at all

Response by SSG Arnold Giusseppi-Hernandez made Nov 26 at 2017 4:20 PM

SSG Arnold Giusseppi-Hernandez — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:20:12 -0500

That's what we use to call all does new LTs that came from college or West Point we no field experience. Must didn't mind, the ones that did were mostly in intelligence.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2017 5:37 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:37:59 -0500

Very disrespectful

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Nov 26 at 2017 8:37 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 20:37:17 -0500

There are just certain constants in our universe. Some names just simply stick, permanently, good, bad, or indifferent, there's absolutely zero you can do to change that, zero, zip, nada, goose egg. The term was used occasionaloy while I'd been in Army ROTC, even more when I'd gone USAF OTS instead. Everyone hearing it knew it was just simply harmless tongue in cheek humor, from what I could tell. And besides, when youre trying to get them, or after youge got them, complaining about such minor idiosyncrasies in phraseology tend to be the very last things one tended to worry about, at least where I was, honest. Obviously, those are my own thoughts, of course, for whatever they're worth, I realize not everyone here might agree, I'd be eager for any discussion, hope was of at least some interest, many thanks.

Response by SPC Alaric De Beauvesier Watson made Nov 26 at 2017 9:02 PM

SPC Alaric De Beauvesier Watson — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:02:01 -0500

Relax, Cherry.

Response by CPT Charlie Richmond made Nov 26 at 2017 9:02 PM

CPT Charlie Richmond — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:02:21 -0500

Disrespectful. I have been a NCO, CWO and retired Captain. I always felt that Sir/Ma’am or Lieutenant as appropriate and that the term “LT” was earned once you had gained the trust and respect of the NCO’s and enlisted personnel. I served 1975-1999

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Nov 26 at 2017 9:20 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:20:28 -0500

No, in fact I referred to 1LT's as "moldy butter bars" and Captains at "LTs so dangerous the Army warns you twice."

Response by SPC Timothy Motte made Nov 27 at 2017 4:37 AM

SPC Timothy Motte — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:37:36 -0500

First of ask if your just a butter bar, you pretty much haven't done anything yet to be considered one of the guys, it's the same as being an FNG. Get used to it, the rest of us did.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2017 7:07 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 07:07:59 -0500

Ive mostly known the term to be used amongst the NCO's, and Ive let it slide from some mafia members

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2017 10:59 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:59:33 -0500

I personally do not but I am a Warrant Officer not a 2LT. Although it may be good fun for others, I stick with "Sir" or "ma'am".

Response by PFC Eric Jackson made Nov 27 at 2017 11:39 AM

PFC Eric Jackson — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 11:39:46 -0500

Lol, yeah, this is absurd.... You got through basic, but that offends you...? Give me a break

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2017 12:06 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:06:26 -0500

Not really, as I never thought about it as anything other than descriptive of the gold bar.

Response by PV2 Cedric Brundidge made Nov 27 at 2017 12:38 PM

PV2 Cedric Brundidge — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:38:28 -0500

Accomplishment

Response by SGT Jeremy Andre Richie Barton made Nov 27 at 2017 12:41 PM

SGT Jeremy Andre Richie Barton — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:41:57 -0500

If the shoe fits. However directly to the officer in a disrespectful manner would be a "No Go". Even officers of all ranks use the term. As everyone has stated in various forms is this. "Ruck the hell up betsy because the enemy doesnt care about your feelings!"

Response by SPC Logan Stauffer made Nov 27 at 2017 1:35 PM

SPC Logan Stauffer — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:35:19 -0500

I accidentally voted yes, but I don't see what's offensive about it. It simply describes what the rank looks like (in this case, a gold bar is often called a butter bar.) should we also be arguing the term mosquito wings is offensive for a pv2, or the term Fuzzy being offensive for an e1?

Response by SGT William Perez made Nov 27 at 2017 1:38 PM

SGT William Perez — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:38:04 -0500

I guess I never cared to know the orgin of the name. I can see why FNG would be. Does anyone know what coin the term butter bar besides the obvious that the LT bar looks like a bar of butter?

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Nov 27 at 2017 2:28 PM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:28:33 -0500

I would consider it offensive if an enlisted soldier or NCO made the comment out loud to embarrass or show disrespect towards a commissioned officer, as such behavior could be considered conduct unbecoming. There is banter, and then there is disrespectful behavior. There are limits to everything, but I believe among the junior officer corps a little ribbing about a "Butter Bar" is not pejorative but normal healthy teasing.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Nov 27 at 2017 3:01 PM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:01:45 -0500

I view the term "butter bar" as an affectionate passing moniker that has potential to be turned into an experienced first lieutenant with good sense and decorum. Some of them melt down to being obstinant, unfocused, and inept, but the majority will become hard-case 1LTs holding good sense and knowing when to use it.

Response by SFC Bill Payson made Nov 27 at 2017 3:44 PM

SFC Bill Payson — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:44:22 -0500

We used to call all the new 0-1s butter bar as a way to welcome them to the platoon or section it was never used to disrespect anyone, just like buck private

Response by SFC David Hendrickson made Nov 27 at 2017 4:43 PM

SFC David Hendrickson — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:43:40 -0500

Who gives a shit about the name butter bar? We need to talk about how vets can be treated better, or about streamlining the medical system, or retirement pay, ect. Who cares if your offended over being called a butter bar... let-er tatter- chip .... ask real questions

Response by SCPO William E. Palmer made Nov 27 at 2017 5:19 PM

SCPO William E. Palmer — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:19:10 -0500

I do not, but that said, the tone of your voice will either be degrading the term, or making the individual wearing it feel proud

Response by PV2 Michael Price made Nov 27 at 2017 6:28 PM

PV2 Michael Price — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:28:25 -0500

No, it's not. I accidentally hit vote on yes.

Response by SPC Stony Heinz made Nov 27 at 2017 7:56 PM

SPC Stony Heinz — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:56:00 -0500

Not to his face

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2017 8:23 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:23:30 -0500

It’s all in the context in which it is used same as all the names we use.

Response by PV2 Joseph Prudhomme made Nov 27 at 2017 8:56 PM

PV2 Joseph Prudhomme — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:56:23 -0500

Our society has become soft. That extends also to our new military. It is what it is. We want all our people to EARN there status.

Response by SGM Gerald Fife made Nov 27 at 2017 9:47 PM

SGM Gerald Fife — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:47:02 -0500

Whether I find the term offensive or not is not mine to answer. I think the question should only be answered by those that would be affected by it. Namely officers. I see a lot of enlisted answering the question. When you walk in the other man's shoes.............then answer the question. That being said, now you can jump on me.

Response by SPC Evan Elkins made Nov 27 at 2017 9:54 PM

SPC Evan Elkins — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:54:06 -0500

Response by SSG Eli Rowe made Nov 27 at 2017 11:25 PM

SSG Eli Rowe — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 23:25:55 -0500

I find it funny as hell

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 12:29 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 00:29:10 -0500

disrespectful in the sense it singles out a particular rank where as Jarhead squid dog refer to whole group

Response by SGT Wayne Munoz made Nov 28 at 2017 3:15 AM

SGT Wayne Munoz — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 03:15:15 -0500

Nope

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Nov 28 at 2017 6:09 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 06:09:37 -0500

Response by SFC Jerry Humphries made Nov 28 at 2017 8:19 AM

SFC Jerry Humphries — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:19:26 -0500

No, the term has been around for ages, it’s now part of military tradition. Like it or not.

Response by Sgt Keith Trolinger made Nov 28 at 2017 9:14 AM

Sgt Keith Trolinger — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:14:16 -0500

It is more like

Response by 1st Lt Mike Napolitano made Nov 28 at 2017 10:00 AM

1st Lt Mike Napolitano — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:00:38 -0500

Just like being called a "Rookie" in athletics. You earn respect.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 10:53 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:53:38 -0500

We all have nicknames for ranks

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Nov 28 at 2017 11:11 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:11:33 -0500

Nope, doesn't offend me one bit. If you're too thin skinned then maybe you need to re-look your decision to be in the military.

Response by MSgt Wendall Lund made Nov 28 at 2017 12:29 PM

MSgt Wendall Lund — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:29:59 -0500

I am a retired AF Msgt, but I got to commission my daughter to 2Lt. She started out as enlisted and the got her commission. She is now a LTC, she thought it was a term of endearment being called a butter bar. A right of passage so to speak.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 1:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:23:27 -0500

I don't find it disrespectful. But...that also might be due to the fact that I'm enlisted and never had to serve as a 2LT. For the young LT who doesn't get trusted by anyone and has to have an NCO watch over there back, hearing the term butter bar might be a term that gets under their skin. But for me...NOPE, I'm good!

Response by SSG James Feagins made Nov 28 at 2017 4:28 PM

SSG James Feagins — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:28:01 -0500

Butter Bar is no more disrespectful than Full Bull/Bird.

Response by MSgt Larry Clucas made Nov 28 at 2017 5:17 PM

MSgt Larry Clucas — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:17:28 -0500

My butter bars were some of the best officers I have ever known. To me, it was a term of acceptance

Response by A1C Curtis Christie made Nov 28 at 2017 5:51 PM

A1C Curtis Christie — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:51:04 -0500

Suck it up

Response by SPC David Cogswell made Nov 28 at 2017 6:50 PM

SPC David Cogswell — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:50:28 -0500

Sorry I meant to say I’m NOT offended

Response by SPC Steven Ogle II made Nov 28 at 2017 7:46 PM

SPC Steven Ogle II — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:46:30 -0500

My grandfathers both veterans one of WWII the other Korea and Vietnam used that term all the time I believe it's the quality or lack of quality of service members that are serving today. I watched a lot of changes come with the change of uniform standards dropped so did the newbies or FNGs!

Response by SSG Ronnie Bowen made Nov 28 at 2017 8:37 PM

SSG Ronnie Bowen — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:37:57 -0500

Most of the time it is like the term " FNG" for enlisted personal. If we're are war fighters why do the new military members have such thing skin? My best advice, grow up, toughen up, and drive on.

Response by Cpl Don Scharer made Nov 28 at 2017 9:26 PM

Cpl Don Scharer — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:26:45 -0500

Nope

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 9:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:49:41 -0500

Baby Eltee, ya need to just chill out, roll with it, grow into your boots cause it don't start getting easy until you retire.

Response by SrA Steven Brown made Nov 28 at 2017 9:55 PM

SrA Steven Brown — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:55:31 -0500

When I was in, we called them “butter ball”!

Response by SPC Elvis Heredia II made Nov 28 at 2017 11:30 PM

SPC Elvis Heredia II — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 23:30:31 -0500

I tried to push "nope what's the big deal not yes...

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Nov 29 at 2017 1:05 AM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:05:00 -0500

While I was in ROTC, my dad, a WW2 veteran (10th Mt.Inf.Div.), would say, "When you're a butter bar you need to ..." So, I was raised with it and never offended by it. Probably because he also said that you have to earn their respect.

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Nov 29 at 2017 1:35 AM

PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:35:30 -0500

Well, yeah, it's kind of disrespectful, but no, it's not a big deal.

Here's what I mean by that. Yes, we all have to respect the rank but, respect from one man(or woman) to another is earned, not given. Regardless of the situation. So, yes, it is slightly disrespectful to the person until that person has earned the respect of their troops. But, at that point, they cease to be a "butter bar" and become a Lieutenant.

On the enlisted side it's kind of like saying are your a (Chief, Gunny, SFC, or Msgt) who takes care of his troops, or are you just an E-7 collecting a check.

Response by MSG Lonnie Averkamp made Nov 29 at 2017 1:41 AM

MSG Lonnie Averkamp — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:41:54 -0500

If a person gets offended by some tongue-in-cheek humor, he/she will REALLY have a problem with getting shot at............. Sincerely, "Snake-eater".

Response by Sgt Martin Querin made Nov 29 at 2017 2:20 AM

Sgt Martin Querin — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:20:09 -0500

Never found a need to call anyone in the military by anything other than their name, rank, last name, or title. Never called Army a dogface or Navy a squid...wouldn’t know what to call Air Force other than Airman. Butter bars is perjorative but don’t think anyone used the term on anyone that didn’t do something to garner a little derision. Definitely never minded being called a “Jarhead”...kinda wore the nicknames with pride. Semper Fi

Response by CPT Marsia Jager made Nov 29 at 2017 6:58 AM

CPT Marsia Jager — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 06:58:36 -0500

I didn’t mind in the slightest, being referred to as a “butter bar”. I, too, was enlisted before being commissioned.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2017 7:38 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:38:05 -0500

It's 1 luey and 2 luey and captian in my time in service.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2017 8:50 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:50:13 -0500

Rank Hath Its Privileges (RHIP). If someoen is calling you a "butter bar" it is mostly them having rank over you and just poking a little fun at you. At the end of the day. Being an O-1, we are here to learn from those around us. If you dont personally like the term, then take that and dont call other O-1s "butter bar" when you get into the higher ranks. Personally, I have no problems with it because at the end of the day I am a "butter bar". Being prior enlisted doesnt make any difference. My current rank is ENS and therefore "butter bar". You are only a "butter bar" for two years and then you rank up (most likely). It is a "tradition" more or less.

Response by SSG Dan Nelson made Nov 29 at 2017 10:01 AM

SSG Dan Nelson — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:01:53 -0500

Us flag patch

Response by 1LT Sarah Swab made Nov 29 at 2017 11:31 AM

1LT Sarah Swab — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:31:43 -0500

Response by PO2 Kirby Robertson made Nov 29 at 2017 1:40 PM

PO2 Kirby Robertson — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:40:39 -0500

Typical "butter bar" = Whiney Baby. Don't they have something better to worry about, like Land Nav?

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 29 at 2017 2:27 PM

SGT Christopher Lachcik — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:27:45 -0500

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Response by FN David Ames made Nov 29 at 2017 3:46 PM

FN David Ames — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:46:24 -0500

I've always seen terms like this like you would call freshmen "freshmeat". If you take offence then you need to lighten up.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Nov 29 at 2017 4:26 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:26:17 -0500

For those who think Butter Bar is disrespectful, would they prefer Shave-tail instead? I rarely used Butter Bar to designate an Ensign It was always Shave tail when identifying an Ensign or 2nt Lt in MarDet aboard Ship. 3rd person only of course. Would never do it to their face, as that would be disrespectful and against the UCMJ. The Military has tons of names for the different ranks and rates and it's what it is. If you cannot hack a little jabbing for fun then you need to get the hell out because you will become the brunt of every joke. Being able to roll with the punches and come u laughing is what makes us BROTHERS and SISTERS. Every rank has its nick names Call a Full Bird or a 4 striper, Bird Boy in a relaxed setting and see how quick they laugh, you will know if you have a good officer or not, unless he is the Skipper. and then it does not make any difference if he is a Full Bird, Light Bird, Lt or whatever The Skipper is the Skipper and rank never plays into the conversation unless you are making introductions.

Response by LTC Thomas Helsel made Nov 29 at 2017 6:26 PM

LTC Thomas Helsel — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:26:26 -0500

Must we now become politically correct to that level? Will our next work uniform be a snowflake camo? Does that question even bear discussion?

Response by LCpl William Dougherty made Nov 29 at 2017 6:56 PM

LCpl William Dougherty — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:56:56 -0500

Here is where civilians will never be. Name calling begins in bootcamp and progresses as we climb the ladder. Some are a way of encouragement, others a way to let you know you need to do more. And if you can't handle the name, you need to join a group meeting about how your feelings got hurt. There are plenty of those.

Response by Sgt R Zan made Nov 29 at 2017 7:19 PM

Sgt R Zan — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:19:07 -0500

It can be useful to have an extensive vocabulary of informal appellatives; however, using them whenever the opportunity presents is childish and unprofessional.

Response by SFC Jerry Burchfield made Nov 29 at 2017 8:26 PM

SFC Jerry Burchfield — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:26:27 -0500

Response by Sgt Russ Brayton made Nov 29 at 2017 9:45 PM

Sgt Russ Brayton — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:45:53 -0500

Compared to some of the other things we’ve been called? Buck up buttercup!

Response by SGT Dennis Selvage made Nov 29 at 2017 10:07 PM

SGT Dennis Selvage — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:07:43 -0500

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2017 11:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:15:29 -0500

If you get offended with just words leave your service. There is a line between respect and disrespect. But if someone is going to get hurt and cry about it, it better be because of a bullet not a bully. I had butter bars that do bad because they worry about what others think of them and I see butter bars that gets statement of charges because he feels that he is responsible that his lack of leadership made the private get involved in negligence ( that good officer that cares more about his men then what others think of him).. this allows him to grow as a leader so he will say in the future " i had a great time as a butter bar with my plt"

Response by HN Caroline Holsapple made Nov 29 at 2017 11:35 PM

HN Caroline Holsapple — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:35:06 -0500

I think it's disrespectful for enlisted to use it...not so much other officers...they've earned the right.

Response by SPC Dominic Sprivey made Nov 30 at 2017 1:42 AM

SPC Dominic Sprivey — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:42:37 -0500

I was called a mosquito wing when I was a pv2. What's the difference?

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2017 3:06 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 03:06:06 -0500

No, I feel it is just slang as is calling a pvt a fuzzy

Response by Susan Lantz made Nov 30 at 2017 6:59 AM

Susan Lantz — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:59:58 -0500

Never heard it.

Response by TSgt Daniel Reeve made Nov 30 at 2017 8:16 AM

TSgt Daniel Reeve — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:16:24 -0500

It is called that because of the gold color. OMG worrying about this petty shi7 is how wars are lost.

Response by 1SG Joseph Limata made Nov 30 at 2017 9:00 AM

1SG Joseph Limata — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:00:58 -0500

"He/She is just a Butter Bar" is the same as "He/She is just a Private". You are saying "he/she doesn't know anything". These are statements made by NCOs that are meant to be derogative.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 1:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:45:01 -0500

Butter bar seems a lot better than rectangular golden dildo...

Response by SPC Chuckie Arlah made Dec 4 at 2017 2:40 PM

SPC Chuckie Arlah — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:40:32 -0500

Simply descriptive of a novice officer, yet untested.

Response by SPC Erwin Julien made Dec 4 at 2017 2:59 PM

SPC Erwin Julien — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:59:46 -0500

Sir, you are exceptional, because you don’t allow rank to determine who you are and what you stand for. You are a true OFFICER.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Dec 5 at 2017 10:41 AM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:41:43 -0500

I find the question offensive becasue it is based on ego only.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Dec 6 at 2017 2:41 PM

SFC William Farrell — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 14:41:56 -0500

Thanks CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2017 7:17 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 19:17:58 -0500

I think it's all in good fun and with tradition which our Armed Forces should never go away from because it keeps us all family. During my flying days most of were given Call Signs which most of are still called by today no matter our Rank...especially during our missions as a family! If you didn't receive a Call Sign well you know what that meant. But don't get me wrong respect for rank and position was always followed.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2017 4:31 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 16:31:15 -0500

Now that I'm not one, it's a great term. As a 13 year enlisted Airman, I was not excited to be called LT, but knew it was well earned. I'll never forget the SGT who was basically like, "I have night guard with this LT". I told him I was in for 16 and he was like yes sir the rest of the night. We had a call about 2am and he was saying that the soldier was not in our org... Needless to say I got on the phone and a guy (soldiers father/non military) was shot in head. It was a red cross family contact and the soldier was in the unit. Proved to me that no matter what, when your in charge in the military it's important.

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Dec 10 at 2017 11:27 AM

PO2 Michael Henry — Sun, 10 Dec 2017 11:27:24 -0500

For those who may find it insulting, think of it this way. Butter usually sits on a tray made for it in restaurants, they are usually a silver color. After the butter is heated by the room temperature, it melts. After much use and exposure to heat all that is left is the silver tray it came with. After a "butter bar" has had some exposure to environment and trial by fire, it slowly becomes that silver bar that is more respected by the command.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2017 8:56 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:56:09 -0500

No I don't consider it demeaning but their is a time and place for it. It never bothered me because I know my own self-worth and work ethic. I'd be more worried about my troops not trying to joke with me and the actual LT who gets bothered by it. I think the Officers who get scolded for using it are perhaps held to a different standard and should be mindful of the type of command climate they are in. Superiors will all foster different command climates within their unit so it's more about environmental awareness in that matter.

Response by SSgt Mark Lines made Dec 12 at 2017 2:01 PM

SSgt Mark Lines — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:01:27 -0500

Those who find it offensive need to grow up. They are no longer going to get "participation" trophies for just showing up.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2017 3:45 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:45:11 -0500

I cannot speak from a point of view of an officer, but all ranks, billets, services, etc. have one or more uniquely identifying tags/names, and I don't think it's a big deal. I think it's endearing, not necessarily disrespectful... I was called worse, and didn't think about it twice, after all, if name calling affects us, what kind of killing machines are we? :D Obviously, being tactful and respectful still stands, I'm not saying be an asshole all the time to everyone, but there is a time and place for everything.

I hate PoG boot fucks.... ;)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2017 5:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:16:24 -0500

Really? If you think this is offensive, you should have join the navy or air force

Response by AN Donald Miller made Dec 19 at 2017 10:00 PM

AN Donald Miller — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 22:00:37 -0500

Depends on context.

Response by SPC Andrew Ross made Dec 23 at 2017 9:30 PM

SPC Andrew Ross — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 21:30:32 -0500

Personally, I find the term "butter bar" neither offensive nor demeaning. On the contrary, I find it amusing!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2017 3:59 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 03:59:56 -0500

No, not in the slightest. I still remember quite clearly saying "Butter Bar" in the context of me *becoming one* and a SFC within earshot began screaming at me to never say such a thing again. He really lost it.

I am now the butteriest of butter bars and proud of it.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 24 at 2017 7:50 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:50:37 -0500

it's a term of endearment and if that offends an Officer, then i have to question their intestinal fortitude and ability to lead.

Response by PO3 David Greeley made Dec 25 at 2017 1:48 PM

PO3 David Greeley — Mon, 25 Dec 2017 13:48:23 -0500

Back in the day as an enlisted person, I referred to ensigns and 2nd lieutenants as "butter bars" (behind their backs with other enlisted sailors and Marines) primarily to officers who were "over the top" disrespectful, disregarded me in my capacity of my duties and MOS or incompetent until such time they proved themselves otherwise. The exception were prior enlisted. Generally it was considered a derogatory term.

Response by SSgt Thomas Hirschey made Dec 30 at 2017 4:34 PM

SSgt Thomas Hirschey — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 16:34:47 -0500

Only the sensitive will.

Response by LTC Jack Regan made Jan 12 at 2018 1:41 PM

LTC Jack Regan — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 13:41:29 -0500

Just depends on how the comment is stated.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Jan 12 at 2018 3:17 PM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 15:17:38 -0500

No more than a three striper is called a buck sergeant. Those taking offense choose to do so and that's another topic.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2018 4:05 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 16:05:51 -0500

As long as soldiers aren't being deliberately disrespectful or crossing the line, it really doesn't matter. There are names for other ranks like "Mosquito Wings" for PV2, "Fuzzy" for PVT, and an entire list of others. It is also not hard fulfilling someone's requests when they don't want to be addressed by these names like calling a First Sergeant, "Top". However, if they start making a huge deal out of it, then perhaps they should have thought about a different career choice. Out of the realm of getting easily offended, it is basic military culture that dates back to way before many of us were even born.

Response by CPT Ray Gilmore made Jan 12 at 2018 9:33 PM

CPT Ray Gilmore — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 21:33:21 -0500

Get over it, if you want to be a snowflake take off the salad suit, and go find a drum circle; otherwise, take a motrin, drink some water and drive on.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 14 at 2018 12:40 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 00:40:50 -0500

No, I do not. CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Jan 14 at 2018 12:41 PM

SGM Harvey Boone — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:41:42 -0500

NO more so than Shake and bake it's all part of the process and if you get offended then you have a problem get your feelings off your shirt sleeves and suck it up butter cup drive on.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2018 10:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:08:04 -0500

I’m a UAS Operator. I “fobbit” so hard...

Grow some skin...

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 15 at 2018 6:20 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 18:20:26 -0500

Way back when I joined AF Ready Reserve, I was all of 17. I went through a lot of waiver getting.. For one I was still in
My Senior year of H.S. I persuaded .. we’ll I showed them right in the Recruiting material that Reserves is like doing a part time job. School didn’t see it like that..
I had them talking to the Reserve hierarchy.. the school wanted guarantees..
they wanted a lot of stuff, it didn’t mean they’d get it.. (well kind of... they did .. due to the fact I was a minor, No clubroom activity after 9 pm(gee, seriously, it’d Be Sat night) No overseas deploys, the Col. said not in his first year unless an actual war breaks out ..! I did go to Labrador
and Cold Lake and went to Germany over Christmas vacay.. anyway in basic I took a bypass test for Cook(so easy.. I had worked for my Great Aunt at her Restaurant since I was knee high doing stuff like peel carrots.. snap pole beans
, scour burnt pans out on back dock.. as time went on I moved up to harder more intense cooking jobs.. cooking on the grill.
Prepping roasts.. making meat loafs.. Salisbury steaks .. ) So when I got to the
Reserves I already was a proficient Cook.
Some of my ffellow Airmen thought they’d stick me in the clipper or the scullery.. Sarge made sure that didn’t
Happen.. he had me assigned on the Cook sheet with him.. One time, Us and the Air Guard were sharing the kitchen..
Sarge had me on the mashed taters.. I got that bowl over to the big kettle and scooped in the potatoes. And got them over to the Mixer machine and got them
Going.. There was a civilian supervisor in
The kitchen.. I seen one of the civil service kitchen workers go over and say s’thing to her.. She comes over and reaches to shut off the machine.. I asked what’d she think she’s doing.. Sarge asked the same thing.. “how old is this Airman?” Sne asked.. “He’s an A1C and one of my best Cooks, his age is of no concern,” Sarge said.. I just kept on
Making taters.. let him handle the discussion.. She says he needs to be at least 18 to hsndle the mixer, buffalo chopper, meat slicer.. tenderizer.. ..”heck he may as well go home !” Sarge exclaimed .. I vouch for A1C Herrst, hd’s A proficient Young Airman and knows what he’s doing.. so back off, ok? So she backed off and stood in the corner and simmered.. and simmered.. by end of the day we got e’thing cleaned and shined up
Up.. I got my cover and jacket and headed to our bks.. Time for a hot shower and get ready and go to the Airmen’s club.. We already figgered how to work this game.. They ordered the biggest pitcher they could. I ordered a fountain cola.. (good, it was kind of rich, syrupy..)
I got back to the table I drank half the cola and poured the beer in,in Germany
The delivery guys call it a diesel.. keeps the inspectors off their backside, they think they’re drinking cola.. I dran 3 50-50s that’s What I called them .. As I was
Leaving I seen a familiar face.. she had a
Club manager tag on.. she was right by the exit.. I headed to the billiards room .. and hung for a short bit.. I seen her go behind the bar and bend downtown look at s’thing.. I took my cue and got out of that club.. We had one more day of drill..
She wasn’t there to glower and hang over
Us like a vulture awaiting her next meal..
We didn’t do a drill there again.. Another Supervisor gave the MSGT an envelope to be forwarded to the Cmdr... marked Confidental.. I think I knew, but Didn’t
Venture to guess.. We went to the bus all our gear was loaded on below us... we flew to Grissom but were bussing back..
It was going to be a long ride .... K got me some Zs.. I didn’t wake until we got back to Mich. (FF to next month)>... I was work’g on one of the entrees.. The Cmdr and 1SGT were there in the door.. The pointed in my direction and Sarge came and got me.. We went out to the D.R. And got a table..”Do you have any idea why we’re here ,Airman Herrst?” “No I do not”
I responded.. (here it comes..). Here, read for yourself... I’ll skip to the juicy part...
The following Airman; A1C Boyd T. Herrst conducted himself like I would of expected one of his NCOs to Act.. very professional, getting his job assignment completed , Clean-up.. Assisting others when/where needed. His culinary skill
Echoes that of a Professional Chef not an
Reserve Airman on once a month drill.. All the Food selections were top shelf.. They went on... you can only butter a person up so much... We at Grissom Airman’s Dining Facility look forward to
another joint Drill session with A1C Herrst.. (geez I thought my goose was cooked!).. Everything is a team effort..
Between us and the Guard and we busted butt pulling it off and having e’thing where it’s supposed to be.. st the right time..
They told me it would be read atCmdr’s call and a article in the Base paper.. I asked if I could preview it just. Before printing. To make sure everybody that participated gets their due credit.. that’s all I ask, Sir ! I asked to be excused so I could get back to work..

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 16 at 2018 8:57 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 08:57:25 -0500

There are some that say it with contempt. and those that mean no harm.. in the faces of those that are contemptuous,, laugh a good laugh and give them a smile and a nod and they’ll see the Lt has their number(maybe.. just doing that will have their heads spinning different sit-reps around inside).. And to those that say it out of affection and would bend over backwards almost to get done what the Lt Needs done or would like done and give that 125%! ... give them that smile and nod and return of their salute and move on..
He knows they got his ‘6’..

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 1:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:12:00 -0500

CPT Private RallyPoint Member it is describing your rank. Yes it can be said in such a way to be disrespectful just like someone can do to any rank or name. Just like LT. The term in itself is not disrespectful it is how they use it.

Response by SGT Charles H. Hawes made Jan 19 at 2018 2:15 PM

SGT Charles H. Hawes — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 14:15:49 -0500

That term has been around since day one. If I would have gone back into the military after college i would've been proud to be a butter bar.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jan 21 at 2018 8:19 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 20:19:43 -0500

If you find this disrespectful you chose the wrong occupation when you got out of college.

Response by CSM John Pepper made Jan 21 at 2018 8:30 PM

CSM John Pepper — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 20:30:06 -0500

No. It's actually a term of endearment, sort of. We - the enlisted - realize you might be a) on a power trip and b) definitely ignorant (don't take that wrong, just ignorant, not stupid). Listen to your crew (I'm a tanker) or your platoon . . . . and DAMN sure listen to your Platoon Sergeant. Two things about that. They can make you or break you. It's your call Lieutenant. Guarantee most of them want you to succeed . . . . . CSM Out

Response by PO3 Phyllis Maynard made Jan 24 at 2018 2:41 AM

PO3 Phyllis Maynard — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 02:41:09 -0500

No I don't think it is disrespectful because it does not point a finger at the institution or the individual. It is called Living in the culture. We can't take ourselves too seriously CPT Private RallyPoint Member right.

Response by SSG Floyd Shrum made Jan 26 at 2018 9:18 PM

SSG Floyd Shrum — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 21:18:08 -0500

New to service still trying to learn

Response by LT Fred West made Jan 27 at 2018 11:04 AM

LT Fred West — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:04:52 -0500

No. I am proud to be a Squid and was happy to be a "butter bar" Mustang.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2018 11:44 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:44:39 -0500

Compared to what I was called as a PVT, butter bar is nothing. I think a 2LT who gets offended by it probably thinks way too much of themself and needs to remember that they are literally a private with a degree and a signature that means something. Much to learn they have. Now a humble 2LT who embraces being "Butters" and listens to their NCOs to provide the best leadership for the platoon and learn what's necessary to be a successful XO and CO. Damn right, that's goodness

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2018 8:02 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:02:05 -0500

If you find some of these terms that offensive maybe you should not be in the military. I used to introduce myself as butterbar or Lt. I had a grandfather that retired a MSgt and made sure to tell me not to be like any of the (many deragotory terms) Lt’s that he served with. So as a 22-23 yr old female, I had no issues because it meant I belonged.

Response by Capt Mike Snellgrove made Jan 31 at 2018 10:49 PM

Capt Mike Snellgrove — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 22:49:17 -0500

Nope wore it with pride

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2018 4:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 16:15:43 -0500

Comes with the territory, better then being called "Cherry" when new to the 82nd. ABN Division, or "FNG" in country for the first time. All is Good, Salute!

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Feb 4 at 2018 10:52 AM

LTC Ronald Stephens — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:52:58 -0500

No more than nugget, or debutant. Being a mustang, I was familiar with both sides of the officer/enlisted coin. I made it a point to cultivate certain NCOs in the organization that demonstrated a very high degree of knowledge and understanding of what being a field artilleryman is and does. NCOs are truly the backbone of any military service.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Feb 4 at 2018 11:11 AM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:11:44 -0500

I never called a Lieutenant a butter bar or even referred to one as a butter bar. It takes NCO's to make an officer and once you call a Lieutenant a butter bar then you lose a little respect from him.

Response by LCDR Michael L. made Feb 4 at 2018 12:12 PM

LCDR Michael L. — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 12:12:25 -0500

I was once a butter bar NFO and was told by a seasoned 1st Class, “You’ve been in the Navy since breakfast.” I’ll never forget that. He taught me a lot about being a leader.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Feb 7 at 2018 5:05 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 17:05:53 -0500

To me, the term is informative shorthand. It tells me to keep a close eye on this Gentleman since they are relatively new and therefor are prone to errors. Nothing more.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 12 at 2018 7:02 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 07:02:27 -0500

It's only used in fun.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Feb 14 at 2018 2:29 PM

PO2 Louis Fattrusso — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 14:29:23 -0500

When I was in the Navy these were terms of respect. We would always have this competitive comradary.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Feb 16 at 2018 3:26 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 15:26:33 -0500

Inevitable.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Feb 16 at 2018 3:55 PM

PO1 Don Gulizia — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 15:55:34 -0500

I find it offensive that so many things are now offensive.

Response by SSgt Lana Coon made Feb 26 at 2018 9:05 PM

SSgt Lana Coon — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:05:31 -0500

When my huband commissioned his previous commander made me promise to find him an old military butter knife and do something cool with it for his OTS graduation. I made him a small shadow box with his basic training picture, map and dates. He very much appreciated the gesture. He was not the least bit offended and if he wasn’t, how could I be or anyone else for that matter?

Response by Shane Powell made Mar 24 at 2018 8:32 PM

Shane Powell — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 20:32:54 -0400

folks in the military face death and destruction routinely in their job. horrible nicknames and things of that nature act as a kind of fitness test. If Jody Butterbar has a fit he probably does not need to be in charge of men in combat. but if he can embrace the "insult", turn it to his advantage and own it, he has gone a long way towards gaining respect and also show, in small way, that he has a good chance of withstanding combat stress.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 9:03 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 21:03:14 -0400

A term of endearment.

Response by SSG John Morgan made Mar 27 at 2018 12:41 PM

SSG John Morgan — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:41:22 -0400

No,they earned thier commission and I would'nt demean that UNLESS they were beyond hope.

Response by Capt Robert Weller made Apr 19 at 2018 8:34 AM

Capt Robert Weller — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 08:34:37 -0400

I fail to see what is derogatory about it at all. If you find this term offensive, then your skin is way to thin to be in the military. There are many worse terms in common use across the military that will continue to be used because it gets the point across. Get over it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 24 at 2018 5:35 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 17:35:32 -0400

I find it funny, when they are making my cry for their antics.

Response by SGT Andrew Van Donselaar made May 3 at 2018 4:51 PM

SGT Andrew Van Donselaar — Thu, 03 May 2018 16:51:20 -0400

As an NCO, I have worked on some excellent butter bars and some that well they should have gone enlisted first to learn things. Well, most of the nicknames that we used in the military were used as terms of love and not terms of demeanor. Lts or Ens GET OVER IT.

Response by TSgt David Whitmore made May 3 at 2018 8:59 PM

TSgt David Whitmore — Thu, 03 May 2018 20:59:16 -0400

Each of the various ranks in the military have their own private 'put-down'; just as each of the branches of the service do. Plus, each branch pretends to believe that most members of each of the branches are there to support their own branch.
For people to be offended by such teasing is ridiculous as every member of any of the branches would stand up and fight alongside any and all the other members of our military. No matter what their rank.

Response by PO1 Steven Bridge made May 5 at 2018 9:06 PM

PO1 Steven Bridge — Sat, 05 May 2018 21:06:52 -0400

Just another attempt by the 'Politically Correct' to police one more area of our lives. IF you're THAT sensitive... You DO NOT belong in the military. And to those who were 'correcting' those who used those terms.... You make my point for me - thank you!

Response by 2LT Heidi Hansing made May 7 at 2018 10:42 AM

2LT Heidi Hansing — Mon, 07 May 2018 10:42:35 -0400

I was prior enlisted when I was commissioned. I didn’t then (waaaaaay back then) or now that my son is an O-2, consider it an insult. In my family where almost everyone has served, good-natured ribbing comes with the territory, especially interservice rivalry. I know that my son doesn’t consider it an insult either. Some people are looking too hard and working too hard to be offended.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2018 4:40 PM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 May 2018 16:40:37 -0400

Everyone say it with me "two tears in a bucket, f#$! It!", if your offended there is a new cry room installed at the university of Utah.

Response by CW3 David Covey made May 10 at 2018 1:36 PM

CW3 David Covey — Thu, 10 May 2018 13:36:53 -0400

Nope,, 2lt's have been called that for as long as there has been 2lt's. I was once chastised by my Bn XO for calling a 1lt. El Tee. The Major and I had a short discussion about it and I agreed not to use that disparaging term again (taking it as an order)...at least not in his presence. The El Tee just rolled his eyes. Funny thing though, he had no issues calling me Chief...lol

Response by CPT Don Williams made May 10 at 2018 6:31 PM

CPT Don Williams — Thu, 10 May 2018 18:31:56 -0400

Only when used with an insulting tone of voice.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2018 10:11 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 May 2018 22:11:07 -0400

I am currently a cadet right now and I am suppose to commission in December. I basically tell people I am about to be a butter bar. It depends on how you use the term in a sentence. I don't find this term offensive. I really don't think it matters. If I am in a professional setting, I would say ma'am or sir.

Response by SPC Wes Barnes made May 12 at 2018 9:35 AM

SPC Wes Barnes — Sat, 12 May 2018 09:35:39 -0400

I'm thinking anyone offended by the term Butter bar is probably a snowflake.
I was not offended by the "PV-nothing" for E-1, or "mosquito wings" for E-2....made me feel part of the group....if you are not being picked on in the open in the Army, you are being made fun behind your back because you have no sense of humor

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made May 13 at 2018 11:13 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Sun, 13 May 2018 23:13:19 -0400

No in fact a lot of butter bars were proud of the fact they got that promotion.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 11:50 AM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 May 2018 11:50:19 -0400

"Butter Bar" refers to the appearance of the gold rank insignia. It is in no way a derogatory statement of the individual.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2018 1:07 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 01:07:21 -0400

Meh, not really a problem.... I think it comes down to tone. My chief calls one Ens 'butteriest bars in the land', a second Ens 'butters', myself 'i can't believe it's not butter' and the other LTJG (who is a aalty LDO) 'crisco'. Three of us know he does it in jest, the other ens it is said in a joking manner but it is geared toward an slight to him.
I think it's tame teasing more often than not, for me (at least the way our chief does it) keeps it harmless but I could see how it could get degrading of done the wrong way in the wrong situation

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2018 8:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 20:58:30 -0400

I'll explain it the same way I explained it to my parents when they asked me about it. We call each other names because we think of each other as part of a big dysfunctional family, and a 1LT is the 18yr that believes he knows everything because daddy/mommy left him/her in charge for the first time. S/he forgets that the siblings will only respect him/her when it is earned, not demanded. That is why you have the SSG or SFC there to break up fights and keep a cool head

Response by SGT Brent Scott made May 20 at 2018 2:45 PM

SGT Brent Scott — Sun, 20 May 2018 14:45:20 -0400

It’s amaz how when the officers come from school with the gold bars attached to their collars that they think their crap doesn’t stink. Men and women who decided to go officer but have no idea what it’s like unlisted. I received an article 15 from a new officer when he asked my opinion of him, I said I have no opinion about you sir but do believe that commo group doesn’t need a butter bar in the ranks

Response by Lt Col Louis Botta made May 21 at 2018 8:15 AM

Lt Col Louis Botta — Mon, 21 May 2018 08:15:43 -0400

Not offensive at all. On my first assignment in IL, I was as green and wet behind the ears a second lieutenant as it could be. Our First Sergeant was (and is) one of the people whom I have admired most in my life. I didn't learn any dose of good leadership from my commander (as a matter of fact, he was incredibly unethical), but from that First Sergeant, whom I still recall as one of the most ethical, honest, and leadership-full people I can remember. He referred to me as "his butter bar" and it was a term of endearment. We both had to surmount problems emanating from the commander's ethical flaws.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made May 24 at 2018 11:13 AM

SPC Steven Depuy — Thu, 24 May 2018 11:13:39 -0400

Respect is something you earn over time. Its not granted. In my time in, I had a couple of good LT's, and I have a few more than calling them "butter bar" would have been an undeserved compliment. If your called that to your face, its wrong. But your going to be called it until you prove your worth, just like anyone else starting out.

Response by SSG Efrain Rosadovelazquez made May 24 at 2018 12:45 PM

SSG Efrain Rosadovelazquez — Thu, 24 May 2018 12:45:41 -0400

If you find THAT offensive...I wonder how you will feel about being shot at by an individual that wants to kill you...?... Develop a sense of humor, get some prospective and grow thicker skin.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made May 24 at 2018 3:27 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Thu, 24 May 2018 15:27:02 -0400

Butter bar, mosquito wing, buck sgt, ground pounder,fly boy. Slang yes but if you do your job and recognize that others are doing the same to keep each other alive, Does it matter? Respect is earned no matter what your rank is. Keeping everyone safe, doing your job is all that you can do, the rest is gravy. Been there done that, got all my people home and did our job. That's all that counted. To those who have or are serving THAK YOU

Response by CPL James Barnstead made May 24 at 2018 5:16 PM

CPL James Barnstead — Thu, 24 May 2018 17:16:56 -0400

In my old units new leaders knew they had our respect when we started calling them L.T., same was true for 1stSGT becoming “Top” or Plt Sgt becoming “platoon daddy”

Response by CPO Donald Crisp made May 24 at 2018 7:46 PM

CPO Donald Crisp — Thu, 24 May 2018 19:46:16 -0400

Sorry, but to quote Sgt. Hulka in the movie Stripes, "lighten up Francis!" Our nation has become to worried about offensive terms. If it is cultural, I agree, do away with it, but this is military wide. If these terms hurt you, deal with it! Sorry, this one struck a nerve!

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made May 24 at 2018 8:28 PM

PFC Elijah Rose — Thu, 24 May 2018 20:28:31 -0400

In my experience bosses only get offended because they want to. Frankly, no one cares if you call them by their first name, but they all think that people will get mad if they don't use the correct term.

Response by SSG Jlmthec Norman made May 24 at 2018 10:21 PM

SSG Jlmthec Norman — Thu, 24 May 2018 22:21:45 -0400

Like most things it depends who is saying it, and why. If it is good natured and in an appropriate situation it is fine. If it is said in a way and situation that undermines his/her authority then it is inappropriate!

Response by HN Roger Kluthe made May 25 at 2018 12:17 AM

HN Roger Kluthe — Fri, 25 May 2018 00:17:56 -0400

Butter bar is better than being called a pecker checker all the time. Seriously though, if names offend you then you're in the wrong business.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2018 11:50 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 May 2018 23:50:58 -0400

I'm an O-1 with just over a year, and I've heard other O-1s to O-6s say it. I've never heard anyone actually get offended by it.

Response by Sgt Anthony Maske made May 29 at 2018 11:16 PM

Sgt Anthony Maske — Tue, 29 May 2018 23:16:06 -0400

I find it fitting.

Response by SrA Shawn Nelson made Jun 3 at 2018 1:32 PM

SrA Shawn Nelson — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 13:32:58 -0400

Why should you be offended by it. Proves you worked your ass off to earn it. Also proves you're going to continue to learn because you have gone from the top of the barrel to the bottom. All great officers at once time were butter bars.

Response by MAJ Robert Kissel made Jun 10 at 2018 1:23 PM

MAJ Robert Kissel — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 13:23:19 -0400

Is “RailroadTracks” disrespectful to a CPT? How about “2 Star” to a MG?

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Jun 10 at 2018 4:35 PM

Capt Christian D. Orr — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:35:08 -0400

Hell, I myself used the term "butter bar" for myself and my fellow 2nd Lts back when I held the rank. Big frickin' deal.

Response by SSG Gerald King made Jun 11 at 2018 10:36 AM

SSG Gerald King — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 10:36:23 -0400

for someone who worked in an MOS (05G) where we were called Buddy Fkrs, I don't think such a term should be offensive. Take pride in the fact that you are a butter bar and better things are in the future.

Response by CDR William Kempner made Jun 11 at 2018 5:52 PM

CDR William Kempner — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:52:19 -0400

When was in USAF, I used to hear it thrown around, usually by jr.EM, derisively. I let it roll off. When, I was in USN, the sailors knew better to disrespect you to your face. (What they said out of earshot was probably similar, if not worse!!!) (smile)

Response by LCDR Mike Stapleton made Jun 16 at 2018 10:43 AM

LCDR Mike Stapleton — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 10:43:22 -0400

As with all “terms of endearment” the context and speaker’s intent are key to determining appropriate oreaction. If you use it with derision and intend to slight those to whom you refer, it should be offensive. We are a culture that give good-natured shit as a tradition. We also are populated with over-inflated egos about who is better than who. If u are a squared-away sailor, marine or soldier and u actively seek to train and season your junior officers and newbie shipmate , then you will likely not use those terms with insult as a context. if one has a chip on yer shoulder because someone else’s military rank/assignment/seniority/MOS/etc. is different than yours, you will be likely to show that unprofessional side in your vocabulary. Tease but don’t disrespect. Rib but don’t hate. Honor service but don’t presume to judge the intent or value of other’s service. It’s all honorable til proven otherwise. would you let the 17-yr old commissary bagger insult your platoon leader as a “Butterbar?” Hope not. Would you call the Bethesda orpsman who is changing your buddy’s IV a POG or a REMF? Hope not. Yes as a Marine (whatever MOS) can call his Coast Guard brother a “shallow water sailor.” But he better not believe he’s better person or servicemember. Context and respect determine meaning. Insult (like money) should not be taken when none is offered.

Response by LTC Charles Patchin made Jun 22 at 2018 11:18 PM

LTC Charles Patchin — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 23:18:42 -0400

How offensive. I am so triggered by this vulgar term. I am going to take my pacifier and hide with my safety pin until everyone in the whole world apologizes to every person who has ever worn a butter bar...uh, O-1 insignia of rank. Today's wusses that believe they are entitled to unearned respect should seek instant gratification in another line of work, like asking if fries are wanted with that order.

Response by Sgt John R. Clarke made Jul 1 at 2018 8:55 PM

Sgt John R. Clarke — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 20:55:32 -0400

Only Marines can call another Marine a warhead. As for butter bar that is an army term. We just called them shavetails.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Jul 4 at 2018 8:01 PM

LCpl Steve Smith — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 20:01:12 -0400

No Tell them to stop being Snowflakes they are in the military and Officers not Antifa. I'm a Lance Corporal a non NCO also know as a Non-Rate Meaning someone of a rank that does not rate an opinion, and other amenities NCO's and above do. It is not Offensive it is just the way life in the Suck is and anyone that cried about it when I was in got ragged on about Their Pussy hurting because they got Sand in it and needing to go to BAS to get it washed out.

Response by Sgt Jackie. ( POLCAT ) Polvadore made Jul 5 at 2018 4:21 AM

Sgt Jackie. ( POLCAT ) Polvadore — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 04:21:51 -0400

Being Combat promoted my Platoon had trouble pronouncing my last name so I became Sgt. P . Some jarheads in different platoons called me Sgt Pisshead because of the first letter of my last name was P . I was on split tour 6 months ground pounder 6 months airwing. I was on a BMV5 equal LOCH IN A HARNESS STANDING ON THE RAIL WITH A POD MOUNTED 60 and 2 90 mm gun fed mounts behind me which was my job to clip the belts on the twin 90’s before they fired out. At the end of the Vietnam war we were losing a lot of med-evacs do to ground fire so our job was to go in before the Huey’s and clear the way for them staying inbeteeen the ground fire and the Huey’s the whole time they were loading and after they were out of range then we pulled out. The jarheads calling me pisshead changed their tune when they found out I was the gunner on the BMV5 I had my mail at headquarters so I would drive down and pick up my mail in the Jeep from the wing and they asked me what I was doing so when they learned it sorta changed their name calling. One even told me he regretted ever calling me pisshead because his buddy was medivac out while we were keeping the ground fire off his bird. How bad was the BMV5 ? The name on the loch was tinker bell and two weeks into the job the Gunny Sgt. Changed our birds name to patches and told me to quit marking ever bullet hole with his orange paint and just spray a x on it and quit wasting his paint. Hellfire (Captain Wallace) played for the San Francisco 49’s and blew out his knee and joined the Corps as a helicopter pilot. After six months of fly medivac assist he said he was ready to go blow out his other knee. He had a round go through both calves and still flew two more assists before going in low on gel. He spent the night in 1st Med and was back on the flight line the next afternoon. Myself I had a flesh wound but nothing to stop for 1st med and take a chance of having another pilot. If you couldn’t fly they assigned another man to your bird and when you came back you filled in the open slot not going back to your original bird. So myself and Hellfire stayed together for the whole six months. I used bandages for flesh wounds. SEMPER FIDELIS

Response by Sgt Jackie. ( POLCAT ) Polvadore made Jul 5 at 2018 4:44 AM

Sgt Jackie. ( POLCAT ) Polvadore — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 04:44:57 -0400

If someone says something stupid I would just say at ease and go on but if I heard any rank below myself saying something to or about an officer Yellow Bar or Silver I would reprimand them on the spot. While at Camp Lejune I had two Second Lt. walk passed a Medal of Honor Sgt. Without saluting and I saluted them and sked if a medal Of Honor didn’t rate a salute any more and they said they didn’t notice it on his pocket tab. They turned and asked the Sgt. To hold up and saluted him and shook his hand. Later the one Lt. thanked me for calling it to their attention. Sgt. Man. Craig and I was with Col. Millie when a Maj. walked by the Col. and just said how you doing. Before Col. Millie could turn and say anything Sgt.Maj. Craig asked the Maj. Why his Col. didn’t rate a salute? The Col. Turned around and the Maj. said I am sorry Sir I had the sun in my eyes and thought you were another Maj. Col. Millie excepted the oversight and saluted the Maj. back telling the Maj. he owed him a drink at the officers club the next time they run into each other. They laughed and passed on as friendly as nothing had happened. Sgt. Maj. Craig reminded the Col. Who it was that stopped the Maj. . Col. Millie told the Sgt. Maj. he had one on him anytime he came into the officer’s club. SEMPER FIDELIS

Response by Sgt Jackie. ( POLCAT ) Polvadore made Jul 5 at 2018 5:24 AM

Sgt Jackie. ( POLCAT ) Polvadore — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 05:24:23 -0400

When we came back the last Marine unit out of Vietnam our duffel bags were ruined due to the roof leaking water on our bags and black mold took over. My orders were to Okinawa not Vietnam. I had most of my money in my duffel bag and my dress blues with gold plated buttons. All lost. Never to see anything again that was black molded. No uniforms to fly military stand by so President Nixon signed a one sentence note signing His name to it so back then we had the blue inked machines don’t recall the name but messy to make printed copies of that one sentence ok to fly standby in civilian clothing paper. Had a number to the White House to a answering machine stating by President Nixon it was legal. All we had was Marine Corps ditty bags that they give out to boot camp rejects. So on the plane having new hair cuts as soon as we returned to the states I would understand someone not believing I was who I said I was. There was a Staff Sgt. Across the isle from me and when the airline Stewart asked what I wanted to drink I told her a rum and ice. She asked for my ID card and I handed her the card she started laughing saying I was way to young to be a Sgt in the Marine Corps. The Staff Sgt. agreed with her calling me a boootcamp reject on my way home. Lucky for me I had my slip of paper and my new ID card to prove I wasn’t a reject and I told them both I was just back from Indonesia after a eighteen month tour. But I wasn’t old enough to drink is what the lady said and the Staff Sgt. ordered a rum on ice and a jack Daniels on the rocks and paid for them giving me one and bought me two more before we landed in Dallas Texas. He was from Iowa Park Texas and I from Wichita Falls. He was going to get a taxi to the bus station and head home. My buddy that got out two months before me was picking me up so I told the Staff Sgt to ride with us and Iowa Park was only thirteen miles from where I lived nd we stayed friends with each other throughout our lives he stated in and retired out and I got out when my extended tour was up . I met his wife and two year old son and made sure if they ever needed anything I was their helping them. I with my buddy went into trucking and ended up owning a trucking company. The stafff Sgt. Got out a Master Sgt. Died young from agent orange. Parkinson’s and at that time it wasn’t added to the list but when it was I took his wife down to the Air Base in Wichita Falls and got her 100% disablement pay from the VA. SEMPER FIDELIS

Response by SGT Mary G. made Jul 16 at 2018 11:01 AM

SGT Mary G. — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 11:01:11 -0400

As has been noted any words can be used disrespectfully. Intent and tone of voice, together, have a lot to do with it.
During WWII and Korea when my Dad was enlisted, "dumb insubordinance" was a thing.
I heard it enough growing up understand what it meant and while very young learned to avoid the accusation and troubles it caused!
However - I always thought it was odd that I never heard that term used by anyone or about anyone while I was serving during the 80s - - not even once.

Response by PO2 Brian Gee made Jul 18 at 2018 1:04 PM

PO2 Brian Gee — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 13:04:20 -0400

One of the scariest things is to hear a new Ensign, or 2nd Lt, say "Based on my experience..."

Response by Cpl Eric Young made Jul 21 at 2018 9:27 PM

Cpl Eric Young — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 21:27:33 -0400

Well.... 7% of people find this term disrespectful and offensive.....

Stay out of the infantry you homos!

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Jul 26 at 2018 11:50 AM

Sgt Charles Welling — Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:50:28 -0400

Getouttahere!! No, but what does offend me is these sissy assed liberal questions about being offended on a military web site. If you are truly offended easily, stay out of the Marines, we need strong men and women and your getting offended will result in your really being offended.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 6:20 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 06:20:06 -0400

I don't find it offensive at all. I have called 2LTs butter bar as an NCO so it's fair that I suffer the same jokes as a newly minted officer.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 7:49 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 07:49:44 -0400

Unless you are prior enlisted.. you need to learn before you lead.. only fair that you get remotely treated the same as a enlisted soldier.. still a private when it comes to the military

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Aug 4 at 2018 11:01 AM

1SG Dale Cantrell — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:01:56 -0400

Those terms are used by same rank or above, otherwise it is disrespectful

Response by CPL Perry Trowbridge made Aug 4 at 2018 11:53 AM

CPL Perry Trowbridge — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:53:24 -0400

No I don’t find it offensive, although it depends on the person.

Response by PO3 Eric Sapp made Aug 6 at 2018 4:41 PM

PO3 Eric Sapp — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 16:41:56 -0400

Nope

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2018 3:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 15:42:27 -0400

More often than not, I hear the term coming from more senior officers than I ever do from enlisted. As I was once told, as I was making O4, the reason they aare called 'butter bars' is because they are firm until a little heat and pressure are applied. As with other names; high speed, slack ass.. applied to an individual, there is little wrong with it. Where the problem begins is when it becomes a personal attack or an attack using inappropriate slang. Other than that, I agree, build a thicker skin for this type of work.

Response by CPT Jeffrey Curtiss made Aug 14 at 2018 8:05 PM

CPT Jeffrey Curtiss — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 20:05:34 -0400

I had been Enlisted (E-5) finished college and sold my soul. Some of the other LTs hated it. I reminded them they were called Butter Bars because they didn't know shit.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2018 6:37 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:37:55 -0400

Butter bar for lieutenants, spot for new warrants, slick sleeve for new enlisted recruits, FNG for all of the above, etc. I have never heard anyone scolded for any of these terms, except maybe that last one. I could see it happening with the way the services have been going. Everyone is offended by something, even something so trivial. Military culture has gone through a huge shift as of late and I don't see it slowing down. In some ways, a change is needed. In others, people need to learn to grow some thicker skin. If these things offend folks, they probably shouldn't be in the service, especially when they start to deal with other cultures.

Response by SrA Neil Carroll made Aug 18 at 2018 3:55 AM

SrA Neil Carroll — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 03:55:21 -0400

Full bird isn’t offensive, except when used in a formal sense, at which the offender gets his or her ass reamed by a Colonel...lol

Response by PO3 Tyler Siers made Aug 24 at 2018 5:56 AM

PO3 Tyler Siers — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 05:56:13 -0400

what is the. Big deal only an O-1 non mustang would worry about this. Squid jarhead ...etc it's all part of the deal if you can't handle it and see the true meaning behind it get out go to college get your liberal arts degree in being an she haha

Response by SrA John Monette made Aug 27 at 2018 3:23 PM

SrA John Monette — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:23:31 -0400

having never been an officer, I can only speak from the enlisted point of view. I only used "butter bar" for 2LTs that I didn't have much respect for. there were plenty of 2LTs that I did respect. for them, it was always LT when talking about them. of course, in their presence, all of them were either Lieutenant or, if they allowed it, LT.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Sep 2 at 2018 6:00 PM

Jerry Rivas — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:00:30 -0400

I think it should just motivate a young Lt. into making his 0-2 as fast as can be.

Response by SPC Shawn Fay made Sep 3 at 2018 11:38 AM

SPC Shawn Fay — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 11:38:18 -0400

Call the waaaaambulance for the buttter bar. Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen.

Response by CPT Phil Bronner made Sep 3 at 2018 1:38 PM

CPT Phil Bronner — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 13:38:29 -0400

I never thought it demeaning as an NCO, nor did I when I was commissioned. I always took it as defining the rank "INSIGNIA"...not the officer WEARING it! In my mind, it's the same as calling the Captain rank insignia "Railroad Tracks".

Response by CAPT Michael Toleno made Sep 11 at 2018 4:36 PM

CAPT Michael Toleno — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:36:20 -0400

It may be used in order to be disparaging. Or, it may be used in a friendly, collegial, jocular manner, encouraging friendship, teamwork, and unit cohesion. Whether the hearer is offended or not is not the main issue. I ask, what is the intent of the user of the term? Is he or she encouraging collegiality and esprit de corps? Or is he or she trying to get under someone's skin, under the guise of "tradition" or some such, and then hiding behind the idea that the hearer should not be offended? Junior high school mentalities (name calling, cliques, bullying, attacking the new person simply for being new, etc.) are not the marks of professionals.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Sep 12 at 2018 12:03 AM

LTC Stephan Porter — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:03:19 -0400

No!

Response by PO2 Terry Mesenbrink made Sep 12 at 2018 12:26 AM

PO2 Terry Mesenbrink — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:26:45 -0400

If anyone I ever served with had an issue with my use of the term it would've been Ensign Tijiri aboard IKE CVN69. I threatened to break his fingers with a 2' long 1-1/2" Allen wrench if he ever touched the valves on the machinery on my watch station again!

Response by PO2 Edward DeVennsh made Sep 12 at 2018 5:46 AM

PO2 Edward DeVennsh — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 05:46:59 -0400

It all depends on the tone and circumstances. My father was a WWII dogface. His brother and cousins were flyboys. Following my squid/bubblehead days, I became a cop. I have numerous jarhead and airdale relatives. All of those terms could be complimentary, affectionate, or pejorative depending on tone and circumstances.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Sep 13 at 2018 7:52 AM

SPC Greg Campbell — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 07:52:18 -0400

IMO, from some of these responses, sounds like a few never got a spanking as a child

Response by SSG George Holtje made Sep 23 at 2018 4:37 PM

SSG George Holtje — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:37:33 -0400

Under no circumstance should an O1 be addressed as butterbar by anyone. Sir is the way to address any officer and O2 and above address an O1 by rank or other traditional term.(I understand the first name thing)
Butterbar is Mil slang, I would look at is similar to calling an NCO Sarge.

Response by SSG Thomas Werstlein made Oct 4 at 2018 11:40 AM

SSG Thomas Werstlein — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:40:22 -0400

Snowflakes need not apply! The profession of arms doesn't have time for people that get offended by every little f'ing thing. It's a hard life which requires hard people. You don't need to be rock hard but you should be able to accept that members of other branches have nick names for your branch. That's life in the service. Deal with it.

Response by LTC Jack Regan made Oct 4 at 2018 11:50 PM

LTC Jack Regan — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:50:40 -0400

As I've stated before - it all depends on the circumstance and delivery of the remark.

Response by CPT Philip Bailey made Oct 6 at 2018 8:07 AM

CPT Philip Bailey — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 08:07:38 -0400

Tell a context where the term is used in a non demeaning form.

Response by SP5 Arthur Ben Ephraim made Oct 7 at 2018 6:53 PM

SP5 Arthur Ben Ephraim — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 18:53:39 -0400

The Rite of Passage is having the honor, fidelity, an demonstrated patriotism to stop retelling the U.S. military Heliocentric Model 4th Reich neo Nazi Sonnenkinder (Children of Sol) treason and violation of legitimate Nuremberg Trial verdicts. The Black Sun, Vrile, VT-SS, SA original Nazi's were bad enough without neo-Nazi U.S. help.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Oct 14 at 2018 9:31 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:31:46 -0400

It’s how it is used. Negative or positive attitude..

Response by LTC David Tuttle made Oct 17 at 2018 11:27 AM

LTC David Tuttle — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:27:36 -0400

As an aside, when I was in Kenya as a soldier (2011-2012) the Kenyans called me a MZUNGU. It's a perjorative. (It's mostly directed at the British.) My response was: "And my President is your Cousin"... Which tended to cause the Kenyans to apologise. So, own the term. Eventually, you'll move on from being a Chairforce butterbar, or anything else that one throws on you.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Oct 22 at 2018 9:56 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:56:50 -0400

Yes, it is a bit bit disrespectful, but at the same time, it's something that has been earned over the years. I have yet to meet a senior noncom who has not had the "joy" of breaking in at least one Butter Bar who deserved the term and worse.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2018 9:22 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 21:22:46 -0400

Hell no, are you serious?

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Oct 27 at 2018 6:49 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:49:20 -0400

Can you show me on the doll where "butterbar" hurt you

Response by SFC Richard Bensen made Oct 28 at 2018 7:35 PM

SFC Richard Bensen — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 19:35:18 -0400

As an old school "Grunt" it's somewhat unbelievable how some troops are offended by the slightest perceived comments or words..I served with several butterbars throughout my service..Some were bright and down to earth who strived to learn from their"NCO's,and of course some who made Beetle Bailey look smart. In my opinion it seems the West Pointers were the most entitled and the ROTC grads were down to earth.but alas all officers were butter bars before moving on...those offended just remember why you're in the military and pull up your panties and drive on.....

Response by LTC G. R. Thompson made Nov 1 at 2018 3:29 PM

LTC G. R. Thompson — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:29:43 -0400

I am also a fan of the term, “First Lieutenant-Second Award” for newly minted Captains...

Response by SSG Steve Finlan made Nov 2 at 2018 1:31 PM

SSG Steve Finlan — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 13:31:24 -0400

The most effective use of "butterbar" I saw was at 2ID Korea when I was a SPC at 102nd MI. We got a new el-tee, and over the weekend we had a company bbq; beer, horseshoes, cards, etc. The 1LT shows up and the platoon sergeants sized him up real good. One of the NCOs said to Cpt. Chris, "this our new butterbar, sir? Kinda skinny, isn't he?..." - visibly rattling the new guy who clearly wasn't sure what to do. The captain laughed, another NCO brought the guy a beer, and he was welcomed into the unit. It was more about establishing the ever-important informal chain of command than it was belittling the 1LT. Anyone who takes offense at that stuff needs a different career. Take that social experiment garbage elsewhere. The Army isn't here to validate your feelings.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2018 7:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 19:35:42 -0500

I don't find it offensive. Plenty of ranks in the army have nicknames, not just the 2LT rank. For instance, the SPC rank is called the "sham shield" and the SGT rank is called "buck sergeant."

Response by PO3 Lynn Spalding made Nov 5 at 2018 7:57 PM

PO3 Lynn Spalding — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 19:57:00 -0500

Saw many an Enswine in 8 years most of them were okay to mess with, but OCS students was even more fun.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Nov 15 at 2018 3:55 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:55:28 -0500

Actually, it's funny you ask that...the first time I ever heard that, was when I was going through USAF OTS the first time...my first flight CO had never heard it either, and was, to say the least, rather dumbfounded by the expression when he overheard it...actually, it never bothered me, of course, I always found it rather amusing, you know?

Response by LTC John Griscom made Nov 16 at 2018 8:13 AM

LTC John Griscom — Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:13:19 -0500

In 1851, a second lieutenant had no grade insignia, but the presence of an epaulette or shoulder strap identified him as a commissioned officer. By 1917 and the time of World War I, the olive drab service uniform had gradually become used more frequently and the blue uniform was worn only on formal dress occasions. As a result, metal insignia was authorized for wear on the service uniform on the shoulder loop and on the collar of the shirt when worn without a jacket. Shortly after the United States entered the war, only the service olive drab uniform was being worn. The need for an insignia for the second lieutenant became urgent. Among the proposals was one to authorize for that grade a single bar, the first lieutenant two bars, and the captain three bars. However, the policy of making as little change as possible prevailed, and a gold bar was adopted in 1917.
Another term used was "shavetail" referring to a Second Lieutenant who is not very experienced in Army matters.

Response by CW3 Lysle Seelig made Nov 19 at 2018 2:57 PM

CW3 Lysle Seelig — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:57:25 -0500

No better or worst than "Spot."

Response by SSG James Gordon made Nov 24 at 2018 7:35 PM

SSG James Gordon — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 19:35:12 -0500

Just 1 small example of military jargon that has been used for years.No more offensive than Bird Col.

Response by CWO3 Bryan Luciani made Nov 26 at 2018 10:14 AM

CWO3 Bryan Luciani — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:14:29 -0500

In today's pc society that raised many of our O1s, I can see how someone may take it out of context. I trained so many butter bars in my career that I've lost track, and my own son is currently a deployed butter bar. I could not be prouder of him. Like everything in the military, it's a temporary thing and most importantly it's part of your development. Enjoy being an officer and remember that there are way more junior enlisted being crapped on every day than you'll ever know. Show the troops that Ensigns and 2nd LTs are a very important part of our system. I think they are regardless of whatever silly term they get pegged with.

Response by Maj Neal Jackman made Dec 13 at 2018 11:30 AM

Maj Neal Jackman — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:30:43 -0500

I guess it is kind of like being a "full bird" or "half a chicken". I certainly wouldn't say it to someone I didn't know very well, but what is the big deal? I have great respect for those who got their bird or their silver oak leaf. If you use it in private and they correct you, hopefully in private, now you know. Don't do it again. I've also heard is say there are only two ranks who have no common sense and both of them are gold. Move on.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Jan 27 at 2019 7:46 PM

CDR Tom Davy — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:46:40 -0500

As a former butter bar, myself, it was no big deal, even if it was mildly negative. Unlike some insults, butter bar is a temporary status and most of us graduate from it. Kind of like being a physician intern.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Jan 28 at 2019 12:36 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:36:07 -0500

If any LT is offended by being called a butter bar or Lefttennet, they need to take a serious look at their chosen career path. The military is one of the few areas where you being offended, doesn't change much.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Jan 28 at 2019 1:15 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:15:54 -0500

No. When I made 1LT, I was amazed at the respect I got. :-)

Response by Abe Dean made Jan 28 at 2019 4:19 PM

Abe Dean — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:19:04 -0500

Honestly, I'd be trying to come up and top it with new ones that play on that particular foodstuff. Like some Fabio meme that says I Can't Believe It You Made It Through OCS, or something in that particular idiom.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 5:21 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:21:47 -0500

No. It never offended me. I went to college and completed training for that "rank". I was proud of it. Granted generally I was called L..T or LT by my enlisted and that never bothered me. I really only had one issue with an enlisted having an issue with my rank and it was a reserve SSgt when I was active duty...I said the rank does not denote experience but responsibility. If we fuck up you get an article 15 and I get prison...different expectations different rank.

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Feb 10 at 2019 12:27 AM

1SG Michael Farrell — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 00:27:30 -0500

I agree completely with SSG Tom Livingston. I knew a lot of buddies who were convinced that being called Top was a dreadful insult...Oh, come on. It comes from "Top Soldier..." which goes back in history to the Roman "Primus Pilum" or First Spear for the number 1 Centurion in a Legion. Given what I know of soldiers, and history, and Latin, the Spear part of that would have resulted in an infinite number of sexually degrading insults and nicknames. Which would have been responded to by the Primus Pilum with the same response as probably that I gave to Top. Which was usually, "Having fun yet? You're leading PT tomorrow...I feel like a road march, what do you feel like?" It's part of a game, a bonding exercise, a leveling exercise and an affirmation of camaraderie and family. Post Army, I have had a number of Marine and Navy friends who make a point of the Doggie-Squid- Jarhead thing, and I found it heart wrenching when my dad died to get a sympathy card from a Jarhead-Squid couple who hoped my own Squid Dad was finally reconciled to his son being a doggie. I guess he was. Never told me to go be a submarine sailor or a frogman. I'm just grateful that other people do that so I didn't have to...

Response by SPC James Lunn made Feb 23 at 2019 2:20 PM

SPC James Lunn — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 14:20:28 -0500

Lol. In my Guard years we would also refer to the R.O.T.C. Cadets as " spot".

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Feb 26 at 2019 4:26 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 16:26:47 -0500

YES! If you go calling me a butter bar I will be deeply offended. After all, my parents were married to each other and I worked for a living.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Mar 3 at 2019 9:50 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 21:50:58 -0500

If you use that term to an officer's face it can lead you to either a sever ass munching or Article 15 for disrespecting an officer.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Mar 25 at 2019 8:29 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:29:51 -0400

"Disrespectful", "demeaning"? I don't know who was doing the scolding, but my first thoughts are that whomever it was may simply have felt these JO's hadn't quite earned the right to call themselves "butterbars" yet :)

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made Mar 31 at 2019 6:21 PM

SGT Thomas Seward — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 18:21:26 -0400

With the exception of Mustangs, I never met a butter bar who’s opinion really mattered. They just need to pay attention and keep their head down.

Response by CPT Don Kemp made Apr 5 at 2019 2:07 PM

CPT Don Kemp — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:07:57 -0400

If that's the worst you get called as a 2nd LT, I'd say you are doing pretty well.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Apr 8 at 2019 9:51 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:51:39 -0400

Much like most Soldiers that ever served I Do not find much offensive if used in the right context however is someone is just trying to disrespect another Soldier then although not offensive to me personally. I think I would have to take steps to correct the situation.

I was told by a Soldier once he punched a BG. in the face for having a broken boot lace. I pulled the Soldier to the side and ask for the BG's Name and unit. SM inquired why? I told him I was going to talk to the BG and ask why your still not in Confinement?
Disrespect if allowed can ruin a unit.
I often call most LT's by Lt and there name. No one complained except a Butter Bar who liked to address me as Sarge guess you can understand that a conversation ensued on Respect and disrespect.

Response by CMDCM Tom Vinson made Apr 12 at 2019 7:16 PM

CMDCM Tom Vinson — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:16:30 -0400

If being called a butter bar hurts their feelings they better get over it quick or their new career will be relatively short. A sense of humor at the bottom of the totem pole is a necessary thing and a little humility goe a long way in the military.

Response by MSG Richard Boucher made Apr 13 at 2019 1:04 PM

MSG Richard Boucher — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 13:04:02 -0400

Too many today have become offended over the slightest things. STOP THE MADNESS! The stupid has gone on long enough. If you are easily offended, you are in the wrong profession.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Apr 13 at 2019 8:18 PM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 20:18:05 -0400

Who cares? Grow up. Get over it.

Response by CPL Gary Syme made Apr 14 at 2019 9:17 AM

CPL Gary Syme — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 09:17:50 -0400

In this day of chair-borne rangers trying to make us all safe from the evil, hateful words. They weaken us as a fighting force and as a nation. If you can't handle slang and tradition, how are supposed to handle lead, steal, and explosives flying around.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Apr 14 at 2019 3:01 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 15:01:28 -0400

Butter Bars(0-1, Second LT), have to start somewhere as well. However, they are Still Commissioned Officers, so you obviously would NOT say that to the Person's face.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Apr 14 at 2019 8:29 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:29:48 -0400

It's not ment to be a complement. Its reflective of the implied inexperience. Is a o-1e really a butter bar? All the LT's i ever knew grew into their bars quickly. The smart ones shut up an listened. Then had something to say

Response by SPC Jimmy Rooks I made Apr 14 at 2019 8:34 PM

SPC Jimmy Rooks I — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:34:19 -0400

As a "proud" Irish-American I REVEL in pejoratives!(I am NOT "vertically challenged"! I am SHORT!)

Response by PO3 Rod Arnold made Apr 14 at 2019 11:40 PM

PO3 Rod Arnold — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 23:40:44 -0400

Sticks and Stones.........
If those words you mentioned cause some to have hurt butt feelings than I agree with you, they are in the wrong profession!! They would be more suited as a DemoRat Politician!!!

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Apr 15 at 2019 1:05 AM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 01:05:24 -0400

Being called a “Shaved Tail” by my Uncle, who served in the Army, always bugged me.

I was in training for three years and never really heard derogatory things about being a 2ndLt/O-1. We had 5 months of The Basic School (TBS) where you embarrass yourself in front of peers. Then Naval Flight School from DEC 1980 to AUG 1982. Then F-4 Phantom School from SEP 1982 to JUN 1983.

Response by MAJ Alan Montgomery made Apr 15 at 2019 1:09 AM

MAJ Alan Montgomery — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 01:09:59 -0400

As a newly minted officer, I never gave it a thought. Personally, I never thought of it as offensive or complimentary, but my time we had other, more important, issues on our minds than to be offended by being called a "butter bar". But like I said my time was 50 years ago and today there are more important issues like worrying about what bathroom to use or what box to check when the form asks for our gender taking up our time.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2019 8:35 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 08:35:55 -0400

Not a big deal.
However, I have been called a “pecker-checker” and “penis-machinist” on a few occasions. Mostly by fleet sailors or former fleet sailors. BUT never by a Marine.
“Doc Stu” HM2/FMF 1986-1998

Response by SSG Bill Cooke made Apr 17 at 2019 7:30 PM

SSG Bill Cooke — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 19:30:45 -0400

Butter bar ONLY refers to the yellow color of the bar of the range of a 2nd LT or sometimes called LT. I never met a 2nd LT that hated that term. Not even West Point Graduates. All 2nd LTs know that in the real Army they are at the bottom of the Commissioned ranks and every NCO knows it. Yes the 2nd LT will get promoted to 1st LT as long as they do their assigned jobs well. The LT ranks are the lowest Commissioned rank there is and they are still learning. If they get offended that is on them. I spoke to a Medical Admin office the other day at a pizza place and found that she (the officer) being a Major if she had been a LT or a CPT after med school. She said 2nd LT. i then asked if the term 2nd LT or butter bar had been offensive to her and she told me no. That back then she was still in the learning mode. LTs are learning.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2019 11:03 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 11:03:13 -0400

Earn it butter bar

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2019 2:27 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 14:27:46 -0400

I never took offense to it and I thought it was a “right of passage” type thing as you knew you were guaranteed promotion and have yet to “pay your dues.” Then again I was in the aviation community where everyone is laid back and JO’s weren’t even required to salute one another. (I personally saluted Salty O-3’s just out of respect) The only thing I personally had a problem with were some of the Academy Grad’s (I was OCS) who would lock up and chew the ass of young Fresh Out of Boot enlisted members who would get so scared seeing us that they would react out of instinct and pop to attention and render the greeting of the day (uniform squared away and looking sharp) at which point I would render a salute, a compliment, and tell them to carry on. And at least 3 different times/Academy Grads would light them up with the whole “Oh! So I guess we don’t salute officers” bullshit and I’d stand there and let them rant as I’m not going to correct him in front of the enlisted member, but the moment they were done I would tear them a new asshole and make sure they KNEW they weren’t shit but a 22 year old entitled SOB who is only helping to perpetuate the disdain of Officers amongst Enlisted. I hated that shit. My father was a CW2 Helo Pilot from the Vietnam Era who engrained in my soul that you treat E-1’s and O-6’s the same as respect is earned and not demanded. And sadly it was only Academy Graduates that did that BS in my experience. That type/their behavior created a sometimes very serious disconnect in the O-1/O-2 community while I was in flight training. Just my experience of course but, that was the only thing I was ever offended by.

Response by Sgt Anthony Leverington made Apr 20 at 2019 1:41 PM

Sgt Anthony Leverington — Sat, 20 Apr 2019 13:41:29 -0400

Butter Bar is a bit demeaning but, nobody in my unit (that I'm aware of) ever used the term and I'll tell you why. We had a 2nd Lt in our unit that was 20 years prior enlisted. Being former enlisted, he understood us better than any officer we had and didn't even want us to salute him unless there were other officers around. On the flip side, we had a freshly minted 1st Lt who was awarded his rank upon graduation because of his college ROTC. He showed up with a big head and immediately started barking orders to the enlisted folks. He also referred to our 2nd Lt as a butter bar. I think that offended us more than it did the Lt. It wasn't long though, before the 2 Lt had "Mr. Big Head" calmed down and treating us with respect and we in turn, treated him respectfully.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Apr 20 at 2019 6:19 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Sat, 20 Apr 2019 18:19:09 -0400

If 'butter bar" is disrespectful then so is "slick sleeve", "chief", "top" "full bird", etc. No offense is ever meant and none should be taken...it's a way of telling someone that they have a lot to learn or just might have achieved something significant in a life or career. More could be said, but, nah.

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Apr 21 at 2019 8:01 PM

MAJ Norm Michaels — Sun, 21 Apr 2019 20:01:12 -0400

It is a thoroughly disrespectful term that should only be used between peers or first and second lieutenants. If it is used by a subordinate, it is disrespectful. If it is used by a superior, it is disrespectful. I spent my time as a butter bar, and only once did an subordinate call me butter bar when I first came into the platoon. I verbally jacked him up one side and down the other.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2019 8:06 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 20:06:58 -0400

Tell them to suck it the fuck up Butter-bar-cup

Response by LTC Orlando Illi made May 4 at 2019 9:12 AM

LTC Orlando Illi — Sat, 04 May 2019 09:12:58 -0400

When I was a 2LT I was informed by my 1st Brigade CSM to listen and learn how to be an effective Officer. He told me that "... if you have to tell someone you are an Officer - you're not..." Accordingly, I never thought butter bar was a pejorative term.

Response by PO1 Gregg Mundy made May 10 at 2019 10:54 AM

PO1 Gregg Mundy — Fri, 10 May 2019 10:54:38 -0400

I was always taught to go with the flow, but I really have know problem with certain terms used in the Military. Suck it up Butter Cup!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2019 8:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:57:45 -0400

Nope. From an enlisted perspective, it’s acterm of endearment. There will come a day when you’ll look back at those memories with fondness.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2019 3:12 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:12:01 -0400

Sounds like some overpaid private got their feelings hurt

Response by SFC Don Ward made Jun 8 at 2019 4:00 PM

SFC Don Ward — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 16:00:02 -0400

What I find extremely funny - taking offense at being called Lieutenant.

Response by SSG Edward Yava made Jun 20 at 2019 1:56 AM

SSG Edward Yava — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 01:56:48 -0400

Butter bar, shave tail, L.T., not really disrespectful nor demeaning. It's common most NCO's do have pet names for 1st and 2nd LT's. Most is earned.

Response by SSgt Ron Hazel made Jun 20 at 2019 10:34 AM

SSgt Ron Hazel — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:34:29 -0400

In the Army they often refer to a newly minted 2LT as a “Shave Tail” and the term harkens back to the days when the army used miles for transport. A new mule had its tail cut off so that anyone around it could see that it was new and thus more likely to do something unexpected. 2LT’s being new, more by reputation than actions also tend to do things unexpected and may need. Little more guidance and patience. Not any more wrong than calling someone a boot private.

Response by SFC Terri Lee made Jun 20 at 2019 11:11 PM

SFC Terri Lee — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 23:11:44 -0400

That's what they are. They are to learn from Sr. NCO's,and develop their own leadership style.

Response by SSgt Bob Vassallo made Jun 21 at 2019 4:00 PM

SSgt Bob Vassallo — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 16:00:14 -0400

Railroad tracks for Captains?!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 7:32 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:32:56 -0400

Isn't that the same as calling a new private a fuzzy? Shit always happened to me. It only motivated me to get my mosquito wings asap. People may make fun of butter bars but I think privates get the worst of it, since they don't get the respect that an officer does. If you can't handle being fucked with because of your rank then you chose the wrong job.

Response by LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. made Jun 22 at 2019 9:00 PM

LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 21:00:28 -0400

My first Platoon Leader (God rest his sole) had a sense of humor! He was a Graduate if the Naval Academy and he would laugh when ever I called it CANOE U! I asked him if he knew the difference between a Butter Bar and a PFC? No Farley what’s the difference? A PFC has already been promoted once Sir!!!
That started a friendship from November1983 till he passed away New Years Day 2018. I even stood up at his wedding in 1985. Professional, but saw the humor and didn’t get offended over names!

Response by CWO3 Bryan Luciani made Jun 23 at 2019 1:40 PM

CWO3 Bryan Luciani — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 13:40:57 -0400

Nothing offensive about it. It's temporary and you'll soon go silver and laugh about it. We all go through the bottom of the chain of command and get it one way or the other. Remember that people that mess with you, like you. If they don't like you, they'll ignore you.

Response by PO1 Chuck Lankford made Jun 23 at 2019 8:12 PM

PO1 Chuck Lankford — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:12:44 -0400

Respect is earned and not given!! If an officer or senior enlisted believes every person respects them because of their position they are delusional!! A good leader gets respect by the way they lead not how they push. Ever tried to push a chain??

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Jun 23 at 2019 9:42 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:42:31 -0400

Butter Bar, railroad tracks for captain, full bird for senior colonel, it’s mainly a reference to what the insignia resembles-tell me that doesn’t look like a stick of butter on your cap!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 3:49 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:49:58 -0400

Build a bridge and get over it. It’s the military, not the Boy Scouts! Sorry, was that offensive? When did we go from being professional warriors to professional sissies? We name call in the Army. That’s the nature of the business. We sit around for long periods of time and think up stupid crap, say it, and then move on. I get it. One has earned their golden bar. Now move on. There’s no disrespect in butter bar. It just means you’re part of the team and that’s your current role. Just wait till the bar turns moldy and you’re a 1st LT.

Response by Capt Donald Menich made Jun 24 at 2019 7:14 PM

Capt Donald Menich — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:14:02 -0400

Being called Butterbar or Shavetail is a right of passage all newly minted 2It's have to put up with. How you react will be the basis for your reputation, and what kind of support you will get from your NCOs and enlisted. As a newbie, the only thing you should take seriously is learning your job and your people. What you learned about respecting the rank isn't quite true - you defer to rank, you obey rank, you may even fear it, but respect - that must be earned. And remember, that respect goes both ways.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2019 8:15 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:15:30 -0400

Of course it’s offensive. It’s meant to be offensive. They don’t give you a butter bar because you are so enlightened by the commissioning process, it’s because you demonstrated potential to lead as an officer. You pin on your butter bar, attach yourself to a knowledgeable NCO, and go to work. If you can manage to keep your head and learn while counting mess hall silverware and doing a multitude of additional duties, you might just earn enough respect to turn that butter bar silver. Otherwise, it will melt like a little snowflake.

Response by 1SG Cj Grisham made Jun 25 at 2019 9:59 AM

1SG Cj Grisham — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:59:45 -0400

If anyone has a problem with it, I tell them to suck it up, buttercup. This is a profession of arms, not a profession of feelings. I don't hear privates complaining about "mosquito wings."

Response by LTC John Badtone made Jun 25 at 2019 1:58 PM

LTC John Badtone — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:58:04 -0400

Depends on circumstances. I found most enlisted men treat 2LTs with respect. I found that it is often senior officers who make pejorative comments about 2LTs. LTC (Ret), USA

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jul 7 at 2019 12:39 AM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 00:39:38 -0400

damn butter bars... again, if you're offended by the stupid shit in this world, you're the reason why we can't get shit done in Iraq or Afghanistan... because you're too worried about what tribal leaders are going to call you instead of beating their ass into submission and telling the tally-wackers where to fuck off.SF guys work hard to change shit, you go in and fuck it all up...

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2019 5:35 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 17:35:16 -0400

Too much damn sensitive is all I can say...I am concerned for the military future...

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Aug 5 at 2019 9:23 AM

MAJ Lee Goehl — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 09:23:01 -0400

Being prior enlisted I hated FNG alot more. lol

Response by SFC Cj Thompson made Aug 5 at 2019 1:55 PM

SFC Cj Thompson — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:46 -0400

If you are in the military, and are triggered by the term "butter bar", you need to find a new line of work. This whole new generation of people being offended by everything that they don't agree with has gotten completely out of control.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Aug 15 at 2019 4:59 PM

SPC Nancy Greene — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:59:12 -0400

I NEVER meant the reference to be disrespectful. I was on active duty from 1983 to 1987 and Even my Senior Enlisted referred to 2LT’s as ‘Butter Bars’. That’s just the way it was then and no one seemed disrespected.

Response by LTC Donald Dean made Aug 18 at 2019 7:28 PM

LTC Donald Dean — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 19:28:33 -0400

No it is a military tradition and if today's youngsters cant take then I feel they may not hack it in combat!

Response by Sgt Leonard Lamb made Sep 26 at 2019 12:25 PM

Sgt Leonard Lamb — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:25:39 -0400

So childish.... titty babies...

Response by CPT Stanley Reed made Oct 6 at 2019 10:59 PM

CPT Stanley Reed — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:59:09 -0400

When I graduated from Infantry OCS, I was a 19 year old, high school dropout. I did not give a crap what nick names you called me behind my back. SIR, worked just fine.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2019 8:39 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 20:39:54 -0400

No, I don’t.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Nov 9 at 2019 5:38 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Sat, 09 Nov 2019 17:38:21 -0500

Having been a "butter bar" at one time, I consider the term merely for a right of passage. When I became an OCS drill officer, I tore butter bar cowboys up and spit them out like tobacco. Had one butter bar lieutenant pay officer blow a hole through my mess hall wall, playing cowboy during break. Two, upon field training, when mess call was sounded, my four butter bars were found at front of serving line. This, now, combat officer commander ordered them to serve chow and get to know their men. It's a right of passage.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Nov 11 at 2019 1:20 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:20:17 -0500

If something as simple as words are hurtful,you are in the WRONG business.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Nov 12 at 2019 6:01 AM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 06:01:51 -0500

It is a right of passage, but should not be made in a manner meant to embarrass or humiliate the officer. If you think about it, "butter bar" has a literal and a subtle meaning. It should remind the lieutenant to be careful not to SLIP UP, and that at times, being the first officer rank can be SLIPPERY! Hooah!

Response by SPC Andrew Phillips made Dec 13 at 2019 10:51 PM

SPC Andrew Phillips — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 22:51:49 -0500

Oh my gosh, what thin skinned Millenial is offended by this? Yeah, sure, everything is offensive. Maybe when you go to combat, you can sit down with the enemy and your university guidance counselor, maybe your mom too, and tell him how offended you are by his actions.

Response by MSgt Patrick Jackson made Dec 14 at 2019 2:26 PM

MSgt Patrick Jackson — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 14:26:27 -0500

I couldn’t care less if butter bar was offended. The difference between O1 and an E1 is that the E1 knows he doesn’t know anything.

Response by SCPO Frank Carson made Dec 14 at 2019 2:55 PM

SCPO Frank Carson — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 14:55:39 -0500

Not here

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2019 3:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 15:17:53 -0500

Get over it. Lower than wale shot at the bottom of the ocean.

Response by MAJ John Eckholm made Dec 14 at 2019 4:01 PM

MAJ John Eckholm — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:01:07 -0500

What’s the big deal? It’s just a saying. People need to get thicker skins.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2019 4:38 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:38:28 -0500

Who gives a shit.

Response by SPC Rob White made Dec 14 at 2019 4:48 PM

SPC Rob White — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:48:06 -0500

Even the military is getting to be a bunch of snowflakes

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Dec 14 at 2019 5:24 PM

CPT Robert Holden — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:24:40 -0500

It’s not a negative thing . It’s part of a learning experience. I went from e-5 to an O1 so I had a different perspective on things . So long as you learn and gain experience and wisdom

Response by PO1 Ralph Yant made Dec 14 at 2019 11:05 PM

PO1 Ralph Yant — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:05:41 -0500

Alot of people are too sensitive. Cowboy up.....!!!!

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Dec 14 at 2019 11:49 PM

CW4 Jim Shelburn — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:49:45 -0500

It depends on how it is used, when it is used and by whom. In asocial setting with contemporaries it will probably happen.

Response by SGT Chris Nichols made Dec 15 at 2019 7:31 AM

SGT Chris Nichols — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:31:38 -0500

You never said it to their face.
That would be disrespecting the rank.
But, when referring to an order from then or just casual conversation it was part of it.
Right of passage.
For instance, The Butterbar wants us to do this, or asked if we where doing, So on..

Response by 1LT Jonathan Cowan made Dec 15 at 2019 10:13 AM

1LT Jonathan Cowan — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 10:13:52 -0500

In the Army 8 years, 2-12 month deployments, and then a successful civilian career for 6 years in project management before coming in as a 2LT at the age of 36. Cpt xx or Maj xx calls me a butter bar? all good... Fresh face 2LT, private, specialist call me a butter bar?... get out of my face... also the way the term is delivered matters...
I once had a 1LT say “your just a bunch of stupid buttter bars who don’t know anything”... let me stop you right there sonny...
as is everything in the Army, context and delivery letter a lot

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 1:56 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:56:06 -0500

I just got my butter bar yesterday lol.

Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Dec 15 at 2019 2:20 PM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:20:52 -0500

I had a new butter-bar come into my company straight out of USMA. He said they learned at West Point that if anyone called them "butter-bar" and even "El Tee" they should lick them up and deliver an ass chewing. Luckily for him, I let him know that if he did that, the next thing he'd be called would be far worse than either of those terms. And deserve it.

Response by PO2 Patrick Dwyer made Dec 15 at 2019 3:57 PM

PO2 Patrick Dwyer — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:57:33 -0500

If Butter bar is offensive your not the person to be leading troops. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

Response by Capt Bob B made Dec 15 at 2019 4:54 PM

Capt Bob B — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 16:54:35 -0500

From a former “Butter bar”, political correctness like this has no place in the military. This is a right of passage. If you feel insulted by a comment like this, fill out a “My Feelings Got Hurt - Form 100”, file it with the First Sergeant and move on.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 5:51 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:51:02 -0500

IMO the 2LT needs to relax. Self-depreciating humor is everywhere in this organization, from E-4 Mafia to Mosquito Wings. It helps take the edge off things. Besides we all have all encountered someone in our inner circle with a name; it’s just in-house jabs that amount to nothing serious. Your part of the family. Wear it with pride and be the best damn Butter Bar you can be! See? That wasn’t so bad now was it?

Response by SFC Don Ward made Dec 15 at 2019 7:17 PM

SFC Don Ward — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 19:17:53 -0500

I had a 1LT tell me and my dispatcher that the address "Lieutenant" was disrespectful, and we were to refer to him as "Sir" in all conversations. I was a senior SFC at the time, and asked politely if I could speak to his Commander. I addressed the conversation with his Commander, and never had a problem out of that particular LT again.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 9:29 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:29:32 -0500

Of course it is offensive, it is supposed to be. It is a Derogatory Stereotype used to motivate young LTs to do well. It is also used to anesthetize young officer, give them thicker skins. The humor is dark and so the world turns. If you can't take "survive" a simple negative statement then what are you going to do when somebody starts shooting at you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 9:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:57:44 -0500

LTs are high ranking privates typically and even though we give them grief many times they become truly inspirational leaders. Terms of endearment come in many forms and if you don’t see through them you’re in the wrong profession.

Response by LCpl Christopher Jensen made Dec 15 at 2019 10:25 PM

LCpl Christopher Jensen — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:25:59 -0500

As with all potentially offensive terms, or its not the word itself that is the problem but the intent behind it. If you are using the word in a derogatory manner, then it is disrespectful and offensive. Otherwise, no.

Response by SSG Patrick Williams made Dec 15 at 2019 10:30 PM

SSG Patrick Williams — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:30:03 -0500

When I was a E5 it didn't move me to be called buck SGT. I was a young buck, learning to lead. Suck it up butter bar.

Response by MSgt John Millaway made Dec 15 at 2019 11:17 PM

MSgt John Millaway — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:17:52 -0500

In my prior life ...In 1987, I arrived to my first Army duty station (I was Infantry then). I was processes in along with with my new platoon leader , a Butter Bar. We walked into the platoon CP, and the LT put his manuals, and bag on the first empty desk he saw. The platoon sergeant Stood up and threw the manuals out of the window. He introduced himself, and his squad leaders. The SFC then told the the LT that he would be following the squad leaders in the bush for a week, and if at the end of the week, he was proficient, he could claim a desk...and the platoon. When the LT protested, the 1SG appeared in the doorway, and that was that. The LT learned to lead, then he was no longer called “Butter Bar”. Different Army back then, but to me it is the natural way of things.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2019 12:35 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:35:12 -0500

Next thing ya know the E4 Mafia will be outlawed because it sounds to menacing...A lot of butter bars come in with an over inflated ego. My personal favorite was a butter bar that tried to have an E6 fill out his leave papers for him and tried to have the E6 carry the butter bars luggage from the truck to the room.

Response by LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. made Dec 16 at 2019 6:55 AM

LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:55:01 -0500

What’s the difference between a 2nd Lt. and a PFC??? The PFC has been promoted once!!!

Response by PO1 Cassiopeia Goldenstein made Dec 16 at 2019 9:38 AM

PO1 Cassiopeia Goldenstein — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:38:33 -0500

In 1997 I was a Lance Corporal with one deployment under my belt (I thought I was salty, LOL), I was in my early 20s, and stationed at Twentynine Palms, standing in line at the ATM on base.
I saw that the Marine ahead of me was a 2nd Lt, so I saluted, and when he turned around to return the salute, he grinned at me. Here was a freckle faced ginger kid with BRACES. I realized I was saluting a young adult barely out of school. I was saluting a kid.

Later on when I joined the Navy,
My division officer was usually an Ensign, but thankfully they weren't ring knockers (academy graduates), so they knew enough to know they don't know anything. That's where SNCOs come in. Your O1 needs an E6 or E7 to teach her the ropes.
"Butter-bar" may indeed have been meant as a derogatory term, but it's innocuous enough, even the O-1s are using it. But for military discipline to work, there has to be respect for the rank.
No, I don't think O-1 grade officers should refer to themselves as "butter-bar", that encourages subordinates to use it to refer to them as such in their presence, and THAT is DISRESPECT.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2020 9:53 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 21:53:04 -0500

I'd rather be a butterbar than a leg! Jk naa I don't care. I care about getting the mission done.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2022 6:36 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:36:51 -0400

Nope...not at all. Take it with a grain.