Do you need WLC to be appointed to Corporal?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 01:31:31 -0400

I'm window shopping for units right now in the reserves and all the ones I'm interested in are saying that I'll have to wait about a year before they can send me to WLC. I'm tired of the sham shield and I'd like to begin progressing into the NCO ranks. These units are short on NCOs and need capable soldiers to fill those ranks so I was wondering if I could maybe pitch that to the senior NCOs and the commander so I could get some experience before I get my stripes. I've also heard that you can be promoted to E-5 if you will attend and pass WLC within the next 180 days so if that's true would you consider that to be a better route? Thank you for the help.

P.S. I'm looking to reclass to either 37F or 38B so I understand that those two MOSs run things a little differently on a team level but to my knowledge when a NCO reclasses they still retain their rank even though they are fairly new to that MOS.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 1:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 01:32:30 -0400

Have you done any SSD?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 1:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 01:40:24 -0400

Hey im the the training section of a reserve unit right now. It is very hard to get WLC slots at the moment. However WLC is not mandatory for E5. SSD is the only requirement to drop your packet for NCOES. I just got back from WLC at the end of March and go to the board soon. (AGR stand a normal uniform board. Regular reservists do a packet board). Lots of E5s in my class.

If you have ssd and the points for it you can make e5 without WLC, you will just show deficient in ITRS once you promote until you go.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 1:50 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 01:50:24 -0400

In some MOS changes, you lose rank. I had to give up SSG for EOD school. The E-5 if you attend and pass WLC in the next 180 days thing, that's a lie. WLC is a unit leader progression course. It helps you with points when you're approved by the Promotion Board for consideration of the next rank, but it does not give you an automatic promotion.

I got cut off earlier by the internet going out. CPL is an MTOE position. Units are only authorized so many personnel per rank, per MOS. I was the only CPL in a unit of over 140 personnel. If you want to be a CPL, you have to be the cream of the crop. What sets you apart from the rest of the SPC's? Are you performing outside your pay grade? Are you occupying a position two pay grades above your own? As an E-4, I was filling an E-7 position as the Operation SGT.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 1:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 01:49:16 -0400

If you hold the rank prior to reclass you'll be fine. The priority with the two MOS that you are looking at will be DMOSQ and then NCOES. If you aren't an NCO when you join you won't be able to promote into an NCO position prior to having the MOS as its part of your promotion packet that you hold the MOS for the rank you are seeking. Of course as I've been in USACAPOC for so long I've learned that somehow the exception to the rule can always be found in our ranks.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 2:05 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 02:05:22 -0400

WLC is for E-6 that being said it looks good to the board that your unit is confident in you being an NCO and ready for the next step. Now if you get E-6 you have up to one year to attend WLC but this only comes up if your promoted during a deployment.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 2:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 02:06:03 -0400

I went from a PFC directly to a Cpl and never had the sham shield. So no you don't need WLC.

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made May 14 at 2015 2:10 AM

SSG Keven Lahde — Thu, 14 May 2015 02:10:48 -0400

I think you have to wait a year before you go from CPL to SGT if I am not mistaking. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on that one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 2:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 02:22:09 -0400

If you are promotable you can be promoted ANYTIME you make cutoff. WLC is a boost of points that most people need to make cutoff. I recommend you look into those MOSs points for E-5 and choose whatever you think is best for you with your current points.

Response by SSG Lloyd Becker BSBA-HCM, MBA made May 14 at 2015 2:27 AM

SSG Lloyd Becker BSBA-HCM, MBA — Thu, 14 May 2015 02:27:04 -0400

I have no idea if you need WLC to be appointed to Corporal. While I was in Germany, the big push was to catch up everyone in PLDC. All Staffs were being pressed to go, then SGTs and so forth until every NCO had the course completed.

Gotta understand that was many moons for me. I took it in 1983, or 1984. I retired in 1988, so it has been awhile. And, for me to answer that question, somewhere along the line, I would be lying.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 2:26 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 02:26:35 -0400

I just checked last month's cutoff, 37F is 39 points... That is an automatic promotion once you become promotable. 39 points can be achieved by passing just your APFT. 38B on the other hand, has NA FOR E-5 points, which could mean two things; either you can only reclass to it as an E-5, or you automatically become a SGT upon completion of AIT.

Response by SPC Christopher Salustro made May 14 at 2015 3:02 AM

SPC Christopher Salustro — Thu, 14 May 2015 03:02:09 -0400

I don't believe you need WLC to be promoted to CPL, the regulation for Promotions is AR 600-8-19 and it states in regards to your situation this:

-All lateral appointments will be issued on a DA Form 4187.-
-A SPC will be appointed to CPL when the Soldier is assigned and works in a SGT position. The position must be the Soldier’s PMOS or CPMOS. This includes SPC who cannot otherwise be promoted when they do not meet the TIS requirement, or were not considered for promotion.
-Soldiers will normally retain the rank of CPL and perform the duties of an NCO; however, the appointment authority may laterally appoint CPL to SPC without the individual’s consent for:
(1) Demonstrated inefficiency in technical, supervisory, or other requirements of the MOS.
(2) Significant loss of qualifications, including medical inability to perform the duties of CPL in that MOS as required in DA Pam 611–21.
(3) Disciplinary action under UCMJ or criminal convictions that adversely affects the Soldier’s ability to perform the duties of a CPL

The above is coming from section 7-11 Lateral Promotions pg 82.

This is from about 3 minutes of google searching. Check it out it may help a tad.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 4:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 04:08:28 -0400

I don't know how things work in the reserves, so I am not answering that part. What I am going to suggest is, since you say that you want to progress into the NCO ranks, start asking for more responsibility, ask to be a team leader if there are more Soldiers where you work, maybe do their counselings. You don't need to have corporal in your chest to start doing those things.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made May 14 at 2015 4:47 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Thu, 14 May 2015 04:47:53 -0400

Sweet!

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 14 at 2015 5:42 AM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Thu, 14 May 2015 05:42:50 -0400

No.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made May 14 at 2015 6:46 AM

MSG Scott McBride — Thu, 14 May 2015 06:46:54 -0400

Don't get wrapped around the "stripes". Just because you wear the shield does not mean you can't lead. However, as a new arrival you still have to prove your worth. It's critical that your NCOs develop you with the tools you need to be successful as a squad/team leader. WLC does not give you those tools; it reinforces and crash courses the basics. The real experience comes from doing the job. It's a painful process to wait, but if you lead with determination vice procrastination, your leaders will see that and push you forward. You don't need stripes to lead Soldiers. You need candor, courage care and commitment. Good luck.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 14 at 2015 7:01 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Thu, 14 May 2015 07:01:38 -0400

If you're looking to 'progress through the ranks', may want to consider a more professional approach to the rank of specialist...it's only a 'sham shield' if leaders let it be.

I'm not familiar with Army Reserve promotions, but would think that you'd need to be assigned in a leadership position (usually a SGT position) to be laterally appointed to CPL.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 7:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 07:51:55 -0400

To answer the post's question, no, you do not need WLC to be a CPL.

It is great that you have the ambition to move up in the ranks, but to me it seems like you are looking at the rank progression all wrong. I once knew a CSM who, when hearing NCO ranks referred to as pay grade, would freak out. A pay grade is just that, but the rank is a badge of honor; something to be respected. Being a Specialist isn't anything to sneeze at. I wore the rank of SPC for 3 years before I even went to the promotion board. We all want to progress, the only thing I ask is that it is for the right reasons.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 8:19 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 08:19:09 -0400

I think that it would be helpful

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made May 14 at 2015 9:06 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Thu, 14 May 2015 09:06:31 -0400

For appointment to CPL, no WLC is not required.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made May 14 at 2015 10:21 AM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Thu, 14 May 2015 10:21:38 -0400

Don't worry about Corporal. Just take charge and demonstrate the ability to lead. Always strive for the higher promotion!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 10:35 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 10:35:23 -0400

Ssd1 is a requirement for promotion, as of now wlc is not. Come 1 Oct 2015 it will be for sgt. Your commander signs a 4187 to laterally promote from Specialist to corp. So what ever his requirements are.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 12:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 12:56:27 -0400

Definitely yes.

Response by CPL(P) Nathaniel Burke made May 14 at 2015 12:57 PM

CPL(P) Nathaniel Burke — Thu, 14 May 2015 12:57:02 -0400

I just got laterally promoted to CPL without WLC. I will tell you this, I was put in for CPL because I am in an E6 billet and regardless of my SPC rank, I executed my duties loke an NCO would. I stood up for my guys, I brought them down when they messed up. I led training and made pt plans. I showed that, regardless of points, I was ready for the shot so they put me at CPL and now I'm waiting on points for SGT. Don't think of CPL as a way to get the experience to lead. Every day you have the chance for experience, CPL just gives you a couple more tools at your disposal.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 14 at 2015 1:43 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 14 May 2015 13:43:13 -0400

'Need' is always going to be dead end street when you are talking almost anything in the Army. You are going to want and it will probably extremely hard to do without but the Army will always find a way to get what it actually needs without you having the course, time, rank, ETC. The problem for you right now is that the Army is in low ebb of needing corporal...or anyone for that matter...so you will really WANT this.

Response by SSG Robert Blair made May 14 at 2015 1:44 PM

SSG Robert Blair — Thu, 14 May 2015 13:44:59 -0400

CPL was originally intended for combat deployment. The lateral promotion of a SPC with leadership (i.e. Team Leader) recognition, but didn't meet all requirements to be promoted to SGT.
WLC is NOT Needed to be promoted to or retain the rank of CPL because it is a lateral promotion (no change in grade).

FYI: Many units do not have slots for CPL. They're usually only available (on paper) among combat MOS's. Also, completing SSD-1 will be of help in either your pursuit of CPL or SGT.
Good Luck!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 2:08 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 14:08:13 -0400

I don't know if you need to go to WLC for going to Cpl from Spc because both ranks are E-4. Myself I went to WLC to go from Spc to Sgt.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 2:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 14:28:16 -0400

I'm on deployment in the national guard and was promoted corporal before sergeant without wlc.

Granted corporal slots in my mos are rare. Probably depends on the unit you slot into and their situation.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 11:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 23:42:47 -0400

if you are wanting to reclass.... reclass infantry ;)

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made May 19 at 2015 9:52 AM

SSG Carlos Madden — Tue, 19 May 2015 09:52:13 -0400

Don't worry about becoming a CPL. If you've had the SPC rank for long enough, you should be looking at E-5 stripes anyhow. Remember, you don't need to be a CPL before becoming a SGT and most MOS's and Units don't even authorize CPL's in their ranks.

You're real question should be "I've been an E-4 for x months. How do I get my SGT stripes?"

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 10:16 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 22:16:47 -0400

no you dont have to go to WLC to get CPL if there is an open slot and if you are needed in that slot its up to your chain of command if you get CPL or not.

Response by SFC James Massey made May 21 at 2015 8:51 AM

SFC James Massey — Thu, 21 May 2015 08:51:53 -0400

In answer to your question. The National Guard and Reserves are back logged on schools. This is due mainly because of the limited number of slots given to reserve components. With that said; Here in the Tennessee National Guard is stage 1. WLC, BNCOC, ANCOC all come with a distant learning course first ( stage 1 ) the you go to stage 2 when there is a slot available. Due to the fact that there are very few slots and many reservist (and NG) you can be promoted all the way up to SGT. before having to take stage 2. Your best bet is find a shortage critical MOS, get into it to insure faster promotion times, take stage 1 make CPL and then SGT and then go to stage 2. This is what my son did (he is NG) (I am retired E-7 AD).

Response by SGT Chad Freeman made May 21 at 2015 11:56 AM

SGT Chad Freeman — Thu, 21 May 2015 11:56:05 -0400

I believe that is true, SGM Quick. The best thing I can recommend, SPC Mullins, is to work your ass off and make yourself into the leader you want to be. Your unit should recognize this, and your name would be more likely to come up to get your stripes, be it two or three. CPL is usually a spot that has to open up and there has to be a need for it. If there is no slot available, chances are not that good of getting it. I would also recommend start doing everything to get your points up either way. Work towards your SGT...it's worth it.

Response by SFC Joseph James made May 22 at 2015 12:49 PM

SFC Joseph James — Fri, 22 May 2015 12:49:30 -0400

Nope it's a Lateral Promotion and I got it before WLC/PLDC. It sucks. Don't get it! Lol

Response by 1SG Kenneth Talkington Sr made May 22 at 2015 2:46 PM

1SG Kenneth Talkington Sr — Fri, 22 May 2015 14:46:59 -0400

Once again we fall back to rules and regulations. There is a time frame and prerequisite list for promotion. Primary Leader Ship Course is a major one of them. I know how you feel. You are doing the job but can't be promoted into it. When I was a Sp4 I acted as a Squad Leader. I wanted to be promoted so bad it hurt but because of time in rank I could not be. When I approached the First Sergeant about it he explained this to me and handed me the regulation dealing with promotion to Sergeant. The First Sergeant and Company Commander, with the approval of the Platoon Leader and Platoon Sergeant, did make me an Acting Sergeant. I therefore was given the authority and recognition that come with that rank. I was also expected to lead. It was a great training experience and morale booster. The only problem I had with it was when a new NCO came to the platoon I lost my stripes. But the experience was very rewarding.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 10:03 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 10:03:51 -0400

When I was offered E-7, it came with an assignment to a USARF school, where I was an instructor teaching PLDC (what WLC used to be.) That's the way life goes - promotions go to those who will take on jobs no one else wants. And that's the story of my career. I made E-5 by taking on a job only the PSG could do (Fire Direction Computer for a mortar platoon, and that was back in the days when you did it on a plotting board with a pencil - no computers.) I made E-6 by taking on a section with a ton of old, broken hardware, and then spent the next 6 months filling out requisitions (which were never filled) so we could pass inspection.

OK, let's look at your situation, and let's look at it from the perspective of the unit 1SG. And further let's say everything you said is correct - the unit is short on NCOs. Here I am, the 1SG, and you walk in. I don't know you from Adam, but you want a WLC slot an CPL stripes. And if I give you the slot, I won't see you for 8 months while you attend Phase I of WLC. And you won't make Annual Training either, because you'll be taking Phase II. I have a lot of paperwork to do in my 39 days a year of duty, and it all has to be done. Adding the paperwork to justify promoting you to CPL? It would be easier for me to type a DF declaring you an acting E-5 (what we used to call Acting Jack) but you wouldn't get to wear your E-5 stripes to WLC course, and that seems to be what you want. So even if you are a leader worth having, I won't get any benefit for more than a year. Tell me again, why I should agree to this?

Promotion in the National Guard is rough. You MUST have the MOS, and any other qualifications, and you must be in the slot (no double slotting for promotion purposes.) Meanwhile I have other people in the unit, and I don't want to lose them because I give you the slot they are waiting for. I have been in units with SPCs who had 20 years of service.

On the other hand, I also was a 37F, or 96F as it was back then. (Psychological Operations Specialist) My E-6 rank came after taking on the Audio-Visual team, a 3 man team (E-6, E-5, and E-4) with a 5/4 ton truck, and a ton of hardware in it. PSYOP units are rank heavy. I made E-8 there as a Senior PSYOP Sergeant, mostly because the only other candidate said he didn't want to leave the tactical teams, and work at Division HQ. But there are NO CPL slots in a PSYOP unit, and requesting them to do a lot of extra paperwork to attempt to justify it makes you look like someone who's going to be a problem, not a problem-solver.

My main point is, if you have looked at the unit and the slots are there, take a chance on it. SHOW me what you can do before you ask me for rank. One thing I (as the 1SG) did NOT need was an overpaid private wearing SGT stripes. I need problem-solvers, people whose first thought is for the good of the unit. There's a job in the unit which isn't being done well, perhaps an extra-duty assignment like reenlistment NCO. Volunteer for it. WHEN you get noticed, you'll get the rank.

One last piece of advice. You do have it right, that enlistment/reenlistment is the ONE time you have the power to get something you want. Perhaps not everything, or exactly what you want, but you can get SOMETHING. But of the two, reenlistment is the more powerful. I know by then whether you are worth keeping and how much it's worth to the unit to keep you. Obvious advice - sign up for a short term.

Response by MSG Anthony Foster made May 26 at 2015 12:42 PM

MSG Anthony Foster — Tue, 26 May 2015 12:42:29 -0400

Find out the unit's that you are interested in and put a promotion package in for the duty position. Your current admin sgt can find this out for you also find a unit with a shortage or simply change your duty mos as a SSG you should have a secondary mos so look for unit with a shortage also will you be willing to travel to a unit. When I lived in Colorado I traveled to CA
then transferred to Fla so do not be afraid to travel for a promotion or really you could apply for a active duty position with Airborne Rangers or a S.F. unit

Response by CPL Brian Moseley made May 28 at 2015 9:22 AM

CPL Brian Moseley — Thu, 28 May 2015 09:22:48 -0400

WLC is not required for Corporal, but I went to WLC as a Corporal so I could show initiative to get Sergeant.
If it's still the way it was when I was in you don't technically need WLC to get E5, but to be promotable to E6 it has to be completed.
Cpl. is a tricky rank to attain, you have to be a. E4 already (or at least promotable to one) and you have to fill an E5 slot. Also, most units don't use corporal rank anyways. I've only seen them in 11-series units but I could be wrong there.
Show initiative and show that you're a good leader. Grab a team leader position as a Specialist. Max your promotion points.
If you have good leadership they will notice.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2016 11:38 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 23:38:12 -0400

i can see your frustration about the sham shield E-4's. I just PCSed to a new unit and the E-4s here sham hardcore. Either they are always on appointments, med board, ACAP the list goes on and on. I took control of the situation and in 1 months time I have been to HET Drivers Training, ACP Guard, and 3 more schools and BLC on the way. In my first month I have been to board and got my (P) status. Just waiting on getting CPL to fill the NCO slot before heading to BLC. Im an 88M