Do you really think this article (Pg. 2) is racist?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 18:58:01 -0500

Just got done reading an article that a public defender wrote about his experience with the various races he has represented throughout his career.

The article (if you take the time to read it) is very interesting. If you take the time, and read it, post your thoughts and comments... Note: This has nothing to do with the military.

Here's the link: http://allenbwest.com/2014/12/quite-possibly-racist-article-will-ever-read/

Quite possibly the most racist article you will ever read - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com

This article will no doubt inflame many, but it must be read.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 8:20 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:20:29 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, this is something of a mine field of a discussion thread. On the one hand, I can understand why many would see the article as racist. On the other hand, it was posted by Allen West, a black man.

If we take the attorney at his word, then I think he's basing his statements and opinions on the interactions he has with people in a courtroom setting. He says it's mostly blacks (90%?), a few Hispanics, a few whites, fewer Asians. And if we do take his statements as what he (the attorney) has experienced, then it kind of rings true to me. He would know. He's dealing with these folks - black white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. - all day every day.

That does not mean that ALL blacks are that way or that ALL whites, ALL Hispanics, etc., are a certain way. He's generalizing about the folks he interacts with day in and day out, and I don't doubt him or his observations. Again, though, I don't see him condemning an entire race (even though it may appear that way) ... Rather, I see him "condemning" (or commenting in a negative way on) the people he works with, and he's identifying them by race.

Bottom line, I can easily see how the article is perceived as racist, but I'm not sure it is.

Response by SFC Josh Jackson made Dec 29 at 2014 8:32 PM

SFC Josh Jackson — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:32:36 -0500

So, according to the author, blacks are stupid sociopaths? Seriously? Is that what he's saying?

This is a very revealing article, but not in the way one might think at a glance. The author does use generalizations that often earn people the label of racist (black are, blacks do, etc. implying all blacks). What's interesting to me is that the author doesn't seem to consider himself racist. He is a self-identified liberal, an ideology that purports to champion minority issues (being conservative/libertarian, I think liberalism is damaging to minorities, but that's a topic for another time). So the author utterly fails to realize or acknowledge that he is making very racist generalizations; I speculate that he considers himself incapable of racism because of his socio-political ideology.

That being said, the issue of black-on-black violence is monumental both in its scope and in its underreporting. The author sees a preponderance of black crime, and draws monstrously absurd conclusions as to the origins. Yes, the author is racist, but there is still an absurdly high crime rate among blacks. It is certainly not a racial characteristic, or the crime rate would be 100%. So it is definitely not a genetic predisposition. All races have poverty, but since crime rates aren't proportionately equal among impoverished populations in this country, what is the cause?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 5:33 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 05:33:02 -0500

I would vote for that guy and not what the Democratic National Committee is telling people who to vote for. It is shameful that people can't see beyond the political rhetoric. Racist? Jim Crowe and institutional racism is a real problem. Just like liberals who bashed Reggie White. You have to be anointed by Rev. Al Sharpton to be validated.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 6:05 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 06:05:25 -0500

Wow. At first I thought this was an attack on Col. West. But I need to sleep. Two hours sleep in 48 or so hours.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 6:22 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 06:22:49 -0500

I would say that this is very inflammatory. He is only dealing with the criminal element of society and should not judge all others by what he is seeing. For the same reason you can't just say that if you are Asian you are smart. We do see a lot of technology come out of the Far East but you just can't make an accusation on everyone. He is making statements on the person he is dealing with. Those are facts for that one person. I was a cop and dealt with the justice system. Criminals will act like criminals. That is why they are criminals. The traits for those in the criminal element are not limited to race.

I understand what he is trying to say. But if you read it for face value he is pretty much racist. All I know is that I wouldn't want him to represent me. Just because you have not master the English language or have an extensive vernacular doesn't equate to being a criminal or a lesser citizen. I think this is a good eye opener. One day he may get a young black male that is innocent and that lawyer will just push him through the system. He will be treated just like everyone else he deals with.

This is a sad piece to read. Stuff like this makes me lose faith in the justice system.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 9:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 09:46:12 -0500

No this is not a racist article. It is a statement of fact and reality for many (most) that live the life of the lower income, inner city, across the tracks world. This violent, drug ridden, weapons everywhere, fatherless and often motherless world they live in is real. Part of the blame for this environment has to be owned by those who live there by choice and unfortunately even for those who have no choice. Also part of the blame lies with the political environment that our society has adopted and allowed to continue to where it has become an "I'm entitled and the government is responsible to provide it Society."

Is there a solution, yes, however, the solution is looked at by many (like the liberal Public Defender) as too hard, will take to long, and will become worse before it can begin to get better. Without implementing a solution, this part of our society (and it is part of our society whether we care to admit it or not), it will only get worse, and our government will continue to feed money to it hoping it will go away when enough has been given year after year after year. Yet, the facts are, even with the increase in welfare programs, extending unemployment, paying monthly to those for irresponsible behavior, poverty, inner city crime, children born without fathers has only increased over the years.

The Public Defender talks that Blacks are not capable of comprehending, reasonable deduction, emotion and care. We all know this is not true, even though our prison system indicates otherwise with the increase in the number of Blacks incarcerated. 12% of the population and 40% of criminal actions. We all know better, however, there are those who profit, make big money off the backs of those who live in this intolerable society. The Drug pushers, illegal arms sales/distribution, sex trafficking and also by government officials as well. How has this become tolerable for the masses, US, the people?

The solution will not be solved by politicians promising to provide more; this has been proven time and time again. Their solution is "I got you more spending passed, problem solved!" The solution begins with the liberal thoughts of the Public Defender, however, not necessarily in the manner that he believes.

It begins with the Black Community cleaning up after itself. But it can not and should not be done by them alone. However, it has to begin with affluent Blacks stepping up and first coming together themselves. Progress will not come as long as the Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, Steve Harveys, Opra Winfreys, Allen Wests, Charlie Rangels and so many others walking on different sides of this issue....COME together and present a united Black Front.

It's past time blaming White Society for the hardships of the entire Black Race in this country. It's time for Al Sharpton to stop blaming me for the Slavery of 150 yrs ago. Sorry Charlie, I wasn't born until 1955, and oh by the way, your old ass wasn't there either. I do not owe any repriations to anyone today, besides I already pay with my tax dollars going to the welfare programs already in place. Monetary wise, I've alrady paid and paid in full! It's time to stop using slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc as an excuse for a Black teenager under 20 yrs old being a mother of 3 children from 3 different men; for a black youth who chooses to NOT do what a law enforcement officer tells him/her anytime and then when that youth becomes aggressive and challenges and/or physically assaults a police officer. It's time to stop blaming White Society for the 5 killings a day that take place in the Chicago inner city neighborhoods. BLAME solves nothing; Ferguson, MO is an example of that. Instead of Al Sharpton pouring gas on an already unfortunate situation and being responsible for more damages; inciting more racial conflict and baiting "it's the White Mans (cops) fault; he (and others) could have took the higher road to bring calm and helped to prevent the destruction of Black owned businesses in these black neighborhoods and stroking the flames of the Police is your enemy. The angry shout by the step-father "Let's burn this mutha down" did nothing to fix and solve perceived problems and issues in that community! Al Sharpton talks of marching with Dr. M.L. King, but he damn sure either forgot Dr. King's message or he just wanted what he seems to want today and that is to be in front of the camera and appear to be relevant. Well if you want to be "relevant", be relevant for the accomplishment of "Good", not a history of wrongfully inciting unrest by false claims of White abusing Black!

Our Society is filled with "bad" people, Black, White, Yellow, every damn color; We have bad cops, bad lawyers, even bad leaders in our military.....but they are of all colors. So instead of targeting one race (White) it's time to target "ALL" those that represent the bad aspects of our society. Their current actions have only made it worse and then they step back as if they had no responsibility for anything that happens.

Black Leaders coming together is not going to solve it ALL. WE "ALL" have to come together, bury the BS blaming the past and attack the problem of the present. This has to be a collective effort, a liberal effort, an effort to teach accountability, to teach responsibility, an effort to hold all accountable; a collective goal to responsibly help the poor to step up and become achievers in their life and not allowed to sit back and get my entitlement check in the mail.

The media, Congress, Politicians, talking heads and even Middle Class Americans portray poor America as Black America. This is far far from the truth and reality. But a poor Black America is what has "sold", has become the "Poster of the unfortunate" in this country. Poor America is not only a Black Issue, but it is if you listen to all those I just mentioned.

It is time for Those (of all Colors) who have lived in and got out of the inner city slums, ghettos, across the track communities have to come together and march back in there with the message, "it's time we clean this shit up once and for all; those who are against it, we're running you out of our communities and you will be held accountable for your actions. If you want a help up, you'll get it!" If you want to continue to live in fear in a drug infested, crime ridden, slum, you will have to do it somewhere else! We are taking charge of our communities, of our lives and join the rest of society that wants to live in peace, safety, and not fear for ourselves, our children as well as your children too!" It does not have to be in one community at a time, if "WE" all come together to make it happen. Why hasn't Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, Winfrey, West, Rangel, Politicians (etc) and those like them gone to those inner city neighborhoods in Chicago and other communities across the country. Fear is one reason, fear of failure, their "NEW" message not selling, not being relevant in those communities. Not will to stay the course to see change begin to take place; the effort is to tough for them to tackle on their own. So why not come together collectively? What can it hurt....what we're doing today in NOT accomplishing a damn thing.

Am I dreaming, yeah I may be! But until we stop blasting each other and blaming each other for the unacceptable fate that so many poor live in today...it's only going to get worse. And until we (Black/White/Brown, Tan, Yellow, Red, Green, Blue) decide collectively enough is enough, the view point of the the Liberal Public Defender will continue to be REALITY......not Racial.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 10:58 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 10:58:28 -0500

The author makes very broad generalizations about "blacks" based on his limited observations as a public defender. He only has the small segment of society that 1) lives in a southern metropolitan area 2) has been charged with a crime and 3) cannot provide their own defense in court. That is a very limited sample pool to make generalized statements about a race. Based on those factors the only way it could have been more racist is if he brought up yard bird and watermelon. As an educated lawyer he should know better than to use generalizations about race in his arguments. He should also consider a new line of work if his best defense is "they didn't have a dad."

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 12:42 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 12:42:28 -0500

Not surprised at the results. Surprised someone had the cohonas and audacity to share the data. I don't see it as racist at all, actually he did a great job voicing his intent, his passion for his work and the day to day frustration that he endures. I think this article will never make the front page of the NY Times....but I wish it would. What is the answer? I do know that the 2nd American Revolution will result if our government ever fails, and the needy community stops getting paid...that part is the scariest part. Education, parental involvement, and stopping teen pregnancy, somehow, some way, some day.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 31 at 2014 1:38 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:38:48 -0500

Truth is not racist. Never has been. Never will be. Truth allows us to identify problems and fix them.

The irony of this issue lies in the fact that true racists have no fear of being called "racist". In fact, they bask in the shadow of that appellation while those who are not racist keep silent, fearing that saying words such as those found in this article will make them the target of the feared label. This is the power of "political correctness", to stifle free speech, speech needed to address society's problems.

Sad...

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 31 at 2014 11:29 PM

CMC Robert Young — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 23:29:58 -0500

From somebody who has spent an entire lifetime working in the criminal justice system, I’ll offer a simple opinion. The author is reporting what he sees within the context of his own situation. He is reporting behaviors and social norms of people in a small environment. Reporting that in and of itself isn’t racist. It’s simply his observation. He doesn’t appear to ascribe to the belief that EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE exhibits those behaviors; just the people in his limited circle. Given the limits imposed by that narrow specific set of circumstances, he probably does justice to the issue at hand. If the author reports the situation accurately, then we as observers from outside his world must conclude that in the limited context his observations reflect the reality of his environment. It may well be that things are as bad as he says they are where he is, but that doesn't necessarily mean that things are that bad everywhere.

Let's take the author at his word that these things are the cultural norm where he is, but let us be wise enough to place the author’s report in its proper context. It's one place, and one place only. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's like that everywhere, or that these observations of behavior & social status accurately reflect the bigger picture. IF, AND ONLY IF, his observations are applied unfairly in a broader context and extrapolated across a wider arena without supporting evidence, Then AND ONLY THEN should it be construed as racist.

I too have seen and experienced much of what he discusses. His observations are common place in SOME of the environments where I have practiced my profession. Were I to limit my perspective to a single inner city opportunity, I might espouse the same viewpoint, and for us as readers that is the point here. We tend to be myopic and think that the world we see up close is the only world.

I might also offer that the author needs to develop some association with people that isn’t related to his work. When you spend all day every day dealing with the worst of society, it may color (no pun intended) your judgment if you don’t work to remember that it’s just a job.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 2:50 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 02:50:04 -0500

I don't believe the intent was to convey content in an offensive or racist way, but it definitely reads that way in my opinion. This individual make broad generalizations of an entire group of people based upon a sample size that only contains the people that have been accused of a crime.

There are a lot of issues in those communities that contribute to the situation, but at the end of the day each individual had to choose to do the right thing or turn to crime. The solution lies in accountability, not blame or feeling sorry for one's circumstances.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 11:22 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 11:22:51 -0500

While I can see how it can be viewed as racist, one must really take into account the authors perspective. I was a Police Officer for several years in both Detroit MI and Savannah GA, and I did notice that in both locations in the primarily black neighborhoods that I worked in there were very few reported sexual crimes against children, not saying they didn't occur, but they appeared to be very un-common and in frequent. This parallels what the author noted as well.

Again it is about perspective, the blacks that the author deals with on a daily basis are largely uneducated and from the inner-city and chose to commit crimes. There are many from the same community that do not choose to commit crimes and he therefore never meets unless they are a victim or witness. And some who do educate themselves and escape the inner-city.

When I was a Police Officer at times I thought there was no hope for our society as I was surrounded by crime and other problems. I had to 'pull-out' and gain perspective from time to time in order to see that there are plenty of functioning areas of our society.

I visited family in Santa Fe, NM while I was a cop in Savannah, GA and was talking to a friend who was a cop in Santa Fe and was working off-duty in the mall there and he was watching a video bank. As a black woman walked in with her children he said off-handedly "Don't need to worry about her" and focused his attention elsewhere. I thought maybe he knew her and asked him if he did. He said "No, she's black she won't commit any crime." matter of factly...well where I worked the neighborhood was 99% black and unless you ruled out purchasing drugs, prostitution or traffic arrests the crime was almost exclusively black on black crime. I asked him how he knew this, and he said something along the lines of "Well about 8-10% of the population here is black and I've been a cop for 19 years and have never known a black person to commit a crime or be arrested unless it was DUI or domestic and that's pretty rare even." So, the black community in Santa Fe is known by the cop's there to be a healthy responsible law-abiding community. So I'll that if the Public Defender worked there he'd rarely have to defend a black criminal and even if he did he'd probably have a different perspective.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 11:57 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 11:57:51 -0500

I didn't think it was racist...

Response by Maj John Bell made May 13 at 2016 4:10 PM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 13 May 2016 16:10:37 -0400

I was unable to complete the link to read the original article. Nor can I find the text of the original article on the internet, only excerpts and analysis. If someone does find it, please post the link.

In the absence of the original article, please watch me jump off the high dive into the middle of the minefield.

__I am unaware of any responsible scientific studies that claim any genetic link to criminal conduct.
__I am aware that many geneticist feel that the concept of race is a scientifically invalid concept that has been used to quantify and explain species adaptation to regional environmental conditions. Given the relatively new global mobility of human beings. The physical adaptations will cease to visibly manifest over sufficient breeding cycles.
__If one wants to apply the scientific method to crime statistics, isolating and quantifying the variables, when collecting the data and interpreting their negative and positive impacts will be tremendously difficult (impossible...?). An incomplete list of variables...National Culture/Bias, Regional Culture/Bias, Ethnic Culture/Bias, Family Culture/Bias, Income Status, Economic Environment, Judicial Bias, Educational Culture/Bias, Religious Culture/Bias etc. etc.

In terms of the span of human existence, drawing conclusions, based on the personal experience of a single individual's legal career is silly. I step outside in Northern Michigan, on February 1st, from 14:00 to 14:01 and then use that data collected within my eyesight to explain global weather patterns. Are you interested in my report on Ski conditions in Cairo, Egypt on August 1st?