Do you surround yourself with people who challenge you?

2020-05-11T13:13:46-04:00

This is a big question, with a narrowed context - I have reached chapter 5 of "Dereliction of Duty", a great piece of literature on the events leading up to the Vietnam War. I had some thoughts today about where I am at in the narrative, specifically regarding the disjointed efforts of the White House staff in '63-'64:

In leadership, counsel ought not come from people who only appeal to your desires and opinions. Graciously welcome opposing views and you need not fear the adversity it creates. This sacrifices expediency, but bolsters quality of action. Consider that restrictions on free speech inhibit leadership as everyone involved will lack accurate information and perspective; efforts will be weakened because they are isolated. Resting a decision on your capabilities alone can violate the expectations of many who work for you. Leadership should be situationally aware - communication begets teamwork begets effectiveness.

I chose my words carefully and packed a lot of thought into a few sentences, hope my ideas come across well. What are your thoughts on this?

Response by PFC Nicholas Efstathiou made May 11 at 2020 1:27 PM

2020-05-11T13:27:07-04:00

I would agree with you. Leadership should have those who challenge them, not in a confrontational way, but most certainly in a manner which encourages intelligent discourse. Building a cult of personality -- such as Gen. MacArthur did -- is detrimental to the organization and, subsequently, those who are tasked with carrying out the commands.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 11 at 2020 1:27 PM

2020-05-11T13:27:30-04:00

It's more the other way around.

Response by SPC(P) Timeo Williams made May 11 at 2020 1:48 PM

2020-05-11T13:48:12-04:00

I couldn't agree more. In the corporate world, an example of this can be found in Ray Dalio's Bridgewater. The company embraces differing ideas as a battle if ideas allows for high quality ideas to prevail.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 11 at 2020 1:54 PM

2020-05-11T13:54:31-04:00

There have been several times in training meetings that an NCO proposed a different COA with the same or better results. I would listen to their analysis and passion. I often conceded in order to promote participation and buy in.

What is happening in the administration is a travesty of leadership and discourages initiative or simply doing ones job.

Response by SFC James Cameron made May 11 at 2020 1:54 PM

2020-05-11T13:54:45-04:00

Sir, I was the rock thrown into still waters when it came to collaborative thinking. If something in my Squad or Platoon was off I would say it; oftentimes without tact or regard for feelings. Sometimes you have to say things like they are plainly. Other times a more delicate approach is necessary. I didn’t want to work with people that agreed all the time, but I didn’t want to work with people that were unreasonable and unable to come to a consensus for problem solving.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 2:21 PM

2020-05-11T14:21:19-04:00

Interesting discussion, as in most things moderation is the key. Not enough challenge and one becomes a dictator, too much challenge and you paralyze your unit. I lead a section of engineering and environmental professionals for a state DEP. If you ask me I encourage too much discussion as it takes up too much of our time. If you ask my section, they would probably tell you I rule with an iron fist. The truth is usually always In the middle. I encourage robust peer review of our environmental evaluations, that then needs to pass my QA, with more discussion, to ensure only honest evaluations according to our standards gets out of our office.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 2:38 PM

2020-05-11T14:38:45-04:00

Not intentionally. Haha

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 2:42 PM

2020-05-11T14:42:56-04:00

"Do you surround yourself with people who challenge you?" By definition you are in that position. Your NCOs and Staff NCOs all the way to your Company CO. Give your input, listen attentively to your juniors and seniors. Many things that will be said will challenge your understanding of how things work. That is how we all grow!

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made May 11 at 2020 2:45 PM

2020-05-11T14:45:55-04:00

I have the pleasure of having people around who don't always agree with me. The great thing is that they have helped my mind mature. You, sir, I think are well on your way in becoming a great leader.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 2:47 PM

2020-05-11T14:47:40-04:00

I've had people challenge me from pretty much all avenues....from my drive to my patience.

Response by Cadet 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 2:56 PM

2020-05-11T14:56:52-04:00

I agree sir. I look at it like working out, if you want the biggest growth and improvement you need resistance. Maintaining only one level will do just that. But it also requires different exercises or you'll plateau, like required different input from other experienced leaders and even subordinates.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made May 11 at 2020 3:02 PM

2020-05-11T15:02:04-04:00

Sir True leadership seeks information from every available source in order to make an informed choice. IMHO I would seek to have good mix of those who support your choice (With solid reasons to) others who pick apart you choice with clinical precision and not emotional drivel and those who can look at the choice impartially and balance the merits of that choice. In the end, all should understand that once your choice/decision is made thats it, move on and that they will do everything in their power to make it succeed. While its nice to have consensus in the end leaders listen then move out. It would be great if everyone could all come to a perfect alignment but in real life that never happens and in combat folks can get dead real fast. Doing the right thing should be the guiding light for a leader, even in the end if that turns out to be wrong, you own it and the troops will see that.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made May 11 at 2020 3:28 PM

2020-05-11T15:28:56-04:00

Are you kidding. I am in charge of 50 employees. The saying that you spend 90% of your time with 10% of your people is true. If not for my time in the military I would not be able to manage as effectively as I do. Some people show up everyday on time work hard no problems, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the workforce takes plenty of these people. Then there is the other 10%. Like the guy that drives his forklift through the roll up door and causes $2,550 in damages, then 2 weeks later asks when he is getting his next raise.

Response by GySgt Gary Cordeiro made May 11 at 2020 7:16 PM

2020-05-11T19:16:03-04:00

Sun Tzu chose his staff from those with opposing viewpoints. I support this viewpoint. If everyone in your staff agrees with your ideas, you end up like Saddam Hussein. If they disagreed, they were chastised or worse. Eventually everyone agreed and said that their military is top notch and they have a weapon of mass destruction. You know how that played out.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 10:20 PM

2020-05-11T22:20:54-04:00

Great book/retrospective (and post). Path to War = an excellent video addendum to the H.R. McMaster text.

The folks that "I choose" to surround myself add value by pushing/challenging me and I do my best to return serve (i.e., win win). Will add some corporate-world flipside (sic) where one's *surrounding* and *challenging* cast of co-workers (not unlike the Army) is often pre-assigned/*chosen* for you. Stealer's Wheel provides a pretty accurate heads-up as to what to expect on the left and right. As for the rest of the surrounding perimeter that usually = the good, the bad and the ugly. The upside for me in all this was learning (in Spike-speak) that to do the right thing doesn't necessarily mean having to get along w/everyone but for sure being "situationally aware* (i.e., knowing who's on first). And if you communicate with/treat/respect the lowest paid hourly as well and the same as you do an Exec, the ROI = bank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMAIsqvTh7g

Stuck in the Middle with you - Stealers Wheel

Great song, strange video, but great song.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made May 11 at 2020 10:39 PM

2020-05-11T22:39:59-04:00

I had the "privilege" of being on the staff of six different General Officers, five who I considered brilliant. The common denominator of those five were their insistence on honesty from the members of their staff and the desire that the staff have any proposal or plan reviewed by as many of their people as possible. The Generals usually spoke little at planning meetings except to challenge and demand explanations of details.
Of course there is the old legend of the General's Corporal who was tasked with reviewing all orders and plans with the explanation that if the Corporal couldn't understand the document it was not written well enough.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made May 11 at 2020 10:40 PM

2020-05-11T22:40:31-04:00

A leader has a course of action in his mind but opens up to others for modifications without actually sharing his opinion. Diversity of opinion is important to developing an effective plan. A good leader listens quietly taking into account all things he had not considered and modifies his original plan based on pertinent input. There are times when feedback cannot be sought and a course of action is implemented. This occurs when the people who direct you give no time for such discussion and want something done immediately. At that point you utilize the most reliable, experienced individual you have to determine how it is to be done or if time is too constraining to do it

Response by SPC Michael Brink made Jun 24 at 2020 10:01 PM

2020-06-24T22:01:16-04:00

This whole thread has been very enlightening. I'm constantly searching for ideas on how to be a better leader at my job.

Response by CMSgt Gary Fichman made Jun 28 at 2020 12:38 PM

2020-06-28T12:38:32-04:00

I always listen to my contarians in the military and as a hospital CEO-saved my butt more than once. Blue sky advice strokes the ego, but you have answer the question "I am I that smart"?