Do you think a former enlisted person who claims to have been an officer is a case of Stolen Valor, or is it something else?

CAPT Patrick Mulcahy — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:57:36 -0500

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 9:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 21:00:24 -0500

Sir, I want you to repeat the question to yourself and think, if somebody asked me this question, what would my answer be.

My answer would be yes if you can prove the individual in question was never commissioned.

Response by TSgt Joe C. made Nov 18 at 2019 9:06 PM

TSgt Joe C. — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 21:06:53 -0500

Misrepresentation at the very least.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 18 at 2019 9:26 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 21:26:26 -0500

Depending on what they are doing, impersonating an officer

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 18 at 2019 10:05 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 22:05:02 -0500

Not moving my needle much Pat. Braggarts come in all sizes. The Supremes say it's free speech unless it's used to fraudulently obtain a benefit. Then it's a crime. That said, braggarts in general are not welcome on my spread.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Nov 19 at 2019 7:07 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 07:07:04 -0500

Are you asking if it's possible? absolutely yes. I know a couple of officers that got passed over that resigned and enlisted to finish out their twenty and at least one that just didn't like the lifestyle and went back to being enlisted. I know two that resigned their commission and took warrant positions, which certainly has it's advantages. If it's actually true in this case, no clue without seeing a DD214.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Nov 19 at 2019 8:43 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:43:09 -0500

From my perspective, If he says it he needs to prove it other wise I think it would effect the trust factor that I hold very valuable. On the other hand if you ask me when I enlisted I would say I don't some where around the early 70's then I would have to look a my DD-214 that's been like 40 some years ago. My point if questioned I would have to look it up but I would be able to back up what I said. I see no reason to not be honest.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Nov 19 at 2019 9:41 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:41:16 -0500

If he is knowingly telling a lie, it's, if not "stolen valor" as we have come to understand it, certainly within sight of it!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 10:06 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:06:20 -0500

Why would any former enlisted claim to have been an officer?!?

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Nov 19 at 2019 10:33 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:33:58 -0500

"Former Enlisted Person" = civilian. "Valor" = great courage in the face of danger, especially in battle. "Officer" = A member of an armed forces or uniformed service who holds a position of authority. In the case of a commissioned officer, that authority is derived from an elected President. I see nowhere in any of these definitions an indicator for Officer equating to valor, stolen or otherwise. This "Former Enlisted Person" is a liar, but he/she is not stealing any valor.

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made Nov 19 at 2019 1:34 PM

CPT Jeff Reichardt — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:34:17 -0500

Hard to say without a DD214. I spent 30 in the US Military. 24 as enlisted. 6 as an officer. I have 2 DD2144’s. As well as an Army and Airforce Honorable Discharge certificate.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Nov 19 at 2019 3:25 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 15:25:08 -0500

It is something else. Maybe mental illness. Maybe just douche baggery. I've known a few veterans that told the same lies so many times they started to believe them.
An enlisted guy claiming to have been an officer certainly does not qualify as Stolen Valor. The other way around might be.

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Nov 19 at 2019 4:59 PM

SPC Roger Giffen — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:59:14 -0500

RIFTED. We had a CWO that was rifted down to SSG

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 5:21 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:21:26 -0500

UCMJ and civil law cites Stolen Valor as a Civilian impersonating a Service member, to gain status, position or favor.
Impersonation of Ranking Officer or Warrent Officer is under UCMJ Article 134.
Which cites
offense does not depend upon the accused deriving a benefit from the deception or upon some third party being misled, but rather upon whether the acts and conduct would adversely influence the good order and discipline of the armed forces..

Response by SSG Stuart Zion made Nov 19 at 2019 7:22 PM

SSG Stuart Zion — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 19:22:46 -0500

I have seen many cases in the National Guard where officers can’t get promoted and will revert back to an NCO to finish there time to retirement
Some make good NCOs

Response by SP5 John Fitzgerald made Nov 19 at 2019 7:35 PM

SP5 John Fitzgerald — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 19:35:01 -0500

There are many types of stolen valor, one of which is the inflation of medals awarded to officers who seen to have a quid pro quo deal among themselves, i.e., you recommend me for this and I'll recommend you for that. We saw this a lot in Vietnam. Example: a base camp Captain (REMF) flew out to an after action site, jumped out of the chopper, and sprained his ankle. His fellow (REMF) First Shirt was with him, helped him immediately back onto the Huey, and they flew off. A few weeks after that, the Captain received a Purple Heart for the "injury" and the First Sgt. a Bronze Star for assisting the "wounded" Captain (non infantry). There is a lot of yaddy-yah around who did what. It reminds me that fish always grow out of water.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 8:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:32:17 -0500

Sometimes commissioned officers inflate their former enlisted careers. I remember a Colonel who liked to brag about having been First Sergeant in Vietnam, to imply he held the grade of E8. Come to find out, he was a Sergeant (E5) prior to attending OCS. I suppose he might have briefly held the First Shirt position for a day or two, but but the only MSG he ever had was in the top ramen he ate in college.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 8:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:46:10 -0500

A non commissioned officer is, well, an officer, just not commissioned :) I suppose it is okay for one to reference having been an officer during a "cocktail conversation." To make this claim is to imply having had responsibility and being a leader. In a social conversation, this is fine. Non commissioned officers, like commissioned officers, certainly have a scope of responsibility and are leaders. If a former Sergeant specifically claimed to have been a Captain, then it might be a case of misrepresentation, perhaps even stolen valor, unless they were a prior enlisted officer or an officer who elected to enlist after a force reduction.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Nov 19 at 2019 8:47 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:47:06 -0500

Not stolen valor, just a dumb ass wannabe! With distinct facts, he deserves to be ridiculed in public!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2019 11:41 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 11:41:56 -0500

If this is the case we better ban acohol from most veterans as their stories grow bigger every year, like fisherman tales. Just because one might get caught up in a pissing contest doesn't make it stolen valor. Another thing I am sick of seeing these videos of cocky vets quizzing people to prove themself. You are not the Vet Police. I have been waiting for one of these punks to approach me when I am wearing my Army T or Cap. I will tell you what you can do with your questions, and if you need help I will assist you putting them there! HOOAH

Response by SSG Steven Pike made Nov 23 at 2019 8:57 PM

SSG Steven Pike — Sat, 23 Nov 2019 20:57:38 -0500

Not stolen valor,. A soldier, sailor, airman, marine who served is not stealing valor by such a mendacious claim. He or she is dishonest. Whether enlisted or an officer, all face the same peril by their oaths.

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made Dec 6 at 2019 6:07 AM

MAJ Raymond Haynes — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 06:07:59 -0500

There is really no valor attached to being an officer per se. There are, however, regulations that prohibit impersonating an officer. If you impersonate an officer who has a significant valor event attached to their name, I guess you would be guilty on both counts.