Do you think cops and fire-fighters are Veterans too? Why or why not?

SPC Christopher Simpson — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 13:54:29 -0400

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jul 6 at 2015 1:55 PM

SCPO David Lockwood — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 13:55:34 -0400

This can be a play on words. What I mean by this is that they do protect and save lives as we do how ever they are not veterans in the sense of a military veteran. They are however a veteran of the Police and Firefighters, so yes they are veterans.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jul 6 at 2015 1:58 PM

SGT Richard H. — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 13:58:44 -0400

By definition, they are veterans of what they do. Not of what we do.

Response by SSG Izzy Abbass made Jul 6 at 2015 1:59 PM

SSG Izzy Abbass — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 13:59:15 -0400

Veterans of their services but not Vets. At the end of the day, they get to go home and if something goes really badly, they take time off. Compare that to the kids 8,000 miles from home who goes out day after day. Don't get me wrong, firefighters, police and EMTs do experience a lot but let's not push for a change in terms.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 2:03 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:03:00 -0400

I am a Veteran. Not because I was a civilian police officer. I am a veteran because I served in the United States Air Force. I am a FORMER police officer. A veteran police officer/fire fighter/EMT would be one that has been performing that duty for some time, but is still performing said duty.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 6 at 2015 2:07 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:07:40 -0400

SPC Christopher Simpson I definitely think they are veterans within their own special group of first responders. With that said there are a lot of military veterans that serve as first responders today, as well as those serving in the Army and Air National Guard, Reserves (all service branch reserves), and Coast Guard. The difference I think is that military veterans have a series of benefits and the VA Hospital that they can tap into, versus the benefits that Fire Fighters and Law Enforcement have through their various retirement and health services programs. I don't know if they have benefits like we do through a VA Hospital, unless they are active or retired. That may be the difference between the military veteran and the first responder veterans. I don't really know. I'm not an expert on this subject, so I would like to hear from some of our first responders out there in RP land in reference to their thoughts! Also, they can let me know if I was close in my assumptions.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 6 at 2015 2:08 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:08:22 -0400

When Johnny Cash was alive, I could have said he was a country and western music veteran and in all his success, ups and downs, trials and tribulations he was a veteran of his nitch he had in the market. He just didn't sing; he wrote the songs, did concerts at prisons, and shared his life with the public. I am in aw that he did not die years ago of a drug overdose but he pulled through and died as an old man of natural causes. So can police officers and fire-fighters be veterans? Yes, in their own right and maybe not in a military sense but what they do is serious, sweat and blood shedding business. They should be recognized just as much as SMs and veterans are.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jul 6 at 2015 2:09 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:09:01 -0400

There is a difference in the type of service, but they are selfless servants as well in my eyes.

Our service members are sworn to engage and destroy the enemies of our country which extends well outside the boundaries of our communities.

My thoughts are that the Police Officers and Firemen are our first line of defense which is designed to protect and serve within our communities. By no means does this minimize what these heroes do for us everyday, and I believe it is the only group that relates very closely with our service members.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 6 at 2015 2:13 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:13:03 -0400

While not armed forces veterans they are selfless civil service veterans that put themselves in the line of fire when called to do so. They deserve a similar respect to that paid to armed forces veterans because in the heat of the moment their actions save lives under dangerous circumstances right here on the home front.

Response by SSG John Erny made Jul 6 at 2015 2:15 PM

SSG John Erny — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:15:03 -0400

They have there own club, but a good number of them are one of us also.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 2:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:20:39 -0400

If just of Public Service, yes. But the same could be said about any profession.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Jul 6 at 2015 2:57 PM

SFC Everett Oliver — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:57:27 -0400

While not Veterans in the sense that we think of veterans, I do feel a sort of comradeship with police officers. They do face the unknown every day they put on their uniforms. Most days we simply looked at training. (most of us anyway).

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jul 6 at 2015 3:44 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:44:13 -0400

Not of the military, they're not. Unless they wore the military uniform, they're not a military veteran.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 3:53 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:53:29 -0400

Not unless federalized in some way.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 6 at 2015 4:21 PM

PO1 John Miller — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:21:44 -0400

It depends. Are you calling them "veterans" or "Veterans?" In the case of the uppercase "V," no they are not because they have never served in the military (unless they have of course).

With the lowercase "v," they are veterans of what they do.

Response by SSG Steve Van Erden made Jul 6 at 2015 9:43 PM

SSG Steve Van Erden — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:43:54 -0400

Ian a vet and a cop. I remember a day when to be a cop or firefighter you HAD to come from military. As a field training officer I can tell the difference between vets and non-vets. Vets show the knowledge & empathy need for law enforcement. Especially on my department we have Police Aides (or as I like to say 'Police Aide Corps Veterans). This coppers are hired at 18yo and work admin jobs. At 21yo they are promoted to Officer. Most go to local tech college, of which a significant portion is paid by the city, and they just achieve the 60 mandated credit hours required by the state, never finishing either an Associates or Bachelors degree. Some got hired then joined either Active or Reserves which I commend them. They understand what a paramilitary organization such as law enforcement is. Then there are the 'I did HS, then 4-years of college '. These know how to party not not a true understanding of life. Promotions are something else. They reward for book knowledge not an understanding of the 'job'. I have even been told 'we have problems with vets'. I may not know all about every aspect of the job, but I am a quick scribe. Show me once and you'll be amazed. But I digress, do I feel all public servants should be vets, YES!!!!!

Response by SPC Joseph Bagonis made Jul 7 at 2015 9:00 AM

SPC Joseph Bagonis — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 09:00:48 -0400

I am a veteran and a retired police officer. No they are not veterans, however in NJ police and firefighters have to take a civilservice test to be hired and NJ has veteran preference , therefore many of the polce officers and firefighters you meet in NJ are military veterans. With Police officers you will notice this by the red hash mark on their sleeve.

Response by SFC Aaron G. made Jul 8 at 2015 3:40 AM

SFC Aaron G. — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 03:40:47 -0400

I would have to agree with the consensus of the group that, in one respect, they are a veteran of their service to the community they represent. But, generally, a Veteran is associated with those who have volunteered, or committed, a portion of their adult lives in service to their country defending the freedoms afforded to the citizens of the United States of America at home and abroad. As a Army Reserve Soldier, I am a police officer in the civilian world. I would not consider myself to be a veteran even though I have been in that career field since 2007...

Law Enforcement Code of Ethics
As a law enforcement officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation and the peaceful against violence or disorder, and to respect the Constitutional rights of all men to liberty, equality and justice.

I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all and maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn or ridicule; develop self-restraint; and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Honest in thought and deed both in my personal and official life, I will be exemplary in obeying the law and the regulations of my department. Whatever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided to me in my official capacity will be kept ever-secret unless revelation is necessary in the performance of my duty.

I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings, prejudices, animosities or friendships influence my decisions. With no compromise for crime and with relentless prosecution of criminals, I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear or favor, malice or ill will, never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting gratuities.

I recognize the bade of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service. I will constantly strive to achieve the objectives and ideals, dedicating myself before God to my chosen profession ... Law Enforcement.

Response by CW3 Amel Smith made Jul 8 at 2015 3:26 PM

CW3 Amel Smith — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 15:26:01 -0400

If they have not served in the military then they are not veterans in the same way we define veterans, but they are civil servants. I am not sure I would quantify that all of them are selfless, no more than we can say that all military personenel are selfless. I have seen my share of dirtbags both in the military and the police or FD.

Response by Sgt Matt Koeneman made Jul 9 at 2015 4:56 AM

Sgt Matt Koeneman — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 04:56:48 -0400

Yes and no. Difference being we in the military write a check up to and including our lives for the American people. Theirs are written as more of a possibility.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2015 7:23 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 07:23:54 -0400

They are professionals in their own right. Many are military vets. That said the jobs of police, fire fighters, and the military differ.

Each have earned respect.

Response by Cpl Daniel Sampson made Jul 18 at 2015 7:30 AM

Cpl Daniel Sampson — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 07:30:13 -0400

No. They are not. Only way to become a veteran is to graduate boot camp period

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 25 at 2015 2:57 PM

SSG John Erny — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 14:57:13 -0400

Those who serve are cut from the same cloth, be it Military or Civil Service. Each serves in their own way, and all are worth of respect and admiration. Most people can not do any of the jobs in question, they do not have what it takes, be it firing a weapon and taking a life of pulling the body of child from a fire. The rewards of serving in any capacity can be great as well as hell on earth for the things seen and done.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Oct 5 at 2015 6:07 AM

SSgt David Tedrow — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 06:07:02 -0400

They are veterans in their particular jobs but not "military" veterans. They should be given the same respect for volunteering to do the jobs just as any veteran should though.