Do you think foul language helps build warriors?

SSG Merry Metzler — Thu, 05 May 2022 13:42:35 -0400

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 5 at 2022 1:53 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 05 May 2022 13:53:11 -0400

Sounds like a loaded question. Anyway, foul language in itself is not generally good, and not necessary. But just like football, soccer, basketball, coaches have been known to motivate their Team members with colorful language. This often rolls down hill throughout the Team. Admittedly, if foul language is directed toward any group or individual in any way other than for motivational purposes is is not good.

There can be a time and a place, Soldiers can always express their personal feeling on the matter speaking with that leader or individual and could/should bring light to the matter.

In all my years policy has fluctuated based on the theme of the senior leaderships style. Again, used as a form of attack on individuals and groups is unacceptable. Their are also acceptions during corrective conversations when the point is not hitting home. Anyway you get the point, this is a contentious conversation at the very least.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2022 2:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 May 2022 14:16:29 -0400

That's a very vague question...

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made May 5 at 2022 3:36 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 05 May 2022 15:36:29 -0400

No proof that it does and it is not intended to build warriors

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made May 5 at 2022 3:47 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 05 May 2022 15:47:30 -0400

Foul language is the quotation marks emphasizing disappointment, frustration , and excitement and takes the place of physical displays of emotion

Response by Maj John Bell made May 5 at 2022 4:56 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 05 May 2022 16:56:05 -0400

Foul language is like any spice, in moderation, it flavors just right. Overused, it sours the dish.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 5 at 2022 6:44 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 05 May 2022 18:44:52 -0400

I like Maj John Bell's answer. I found over the years that foul language often indicates a limited vocabulary or persuasive skills. I once dropped an F-bomb in the wrong place and time and it probably cost me a promotion. For the next 20 years, I carefully avoided using profanity in my daily life. I haven't missed it at all.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made May 5 at 2022 7:32 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 05 May 2022 19:32:25 -0400

Sometimes the smashed thumb feels better after a few @#%*!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2022 9:02 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 May 2022 21:02:38 -0400

I entered basic training just as the seeds of wokeness were planted.

We had a pow wow session with the Drill SGT's regarding vulgarity, and they asked around if anyone was offended by the over use of it.

I said something to the effect that the over use of it dilutes it's intended impact. If one just throws vulgarity all over the place all the time then we don't know when they are really mad. So it's just another word. I didn't care either way. It was clearly a power trip, because a swearing trainee in the face of a Drill SGT would bring hellfire. So the vulgarity only was ever going to go one direction.

Now, the eye opening experience of this discussion was one PVT spoke up. This is a safe time so he could share his thoughts without push back. Then another spoke up, then another, then another, then another.

It was unreal............... I quietly laughed in my head. The Drill SGTs were beside themselves.

I don't remember how the conversation ended, but it was probably something along the lines of all you privates get your fucking asses back to the barracks and wax the fucking floors so you can see your fucking ugly reflection in the morning.

I jest, but the pow wow didn't change a thing.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2022 10:05 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 May 2022 22:05:04 -0400

You use the tools at hand to build Marines. In June 1968, we were physically manhandled, and all kinds of things were yelled at us. The hard training helped to prepare us for Vietnam. Combat in Vietnam was much harder than Boot Camp. Foul language was expected and it did nothing to stop me from being the best Marine that I could become.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made May 6 at 2022 9:02 AM

Cpl Vic Burk — Fri, 06 May 2022 09:02:18 -0400

Watch this video. The funniest and most entertaining video on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqnvxP0H3lM

History of the word Fuck

History of word fuck very funny

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 6 at 2022 9:22 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 06 May 2022 09:22:42 -0400

Training builds warriors.
Language serves only as an indicator of the quality of the brain transmitting the information.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2022 11:26 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2022 11:26:24 -0400

I don't see how it helps (except maybe weeding out the pansies) but I sure hell don't see how it hurts.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made May 6 at 2022 12:15 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Fri, 06 May 2022 12:15:15 -0400

The intent of basic is to build a trainable soldier. Training will encompass stressful situations and standards. The insertion of vulgar language lends to creating a stressful environment. It is not ment to do anything other than burden the emotional limits of the soldier. The fact that a soldier will melt at the sound of a vulgar word is evidence the tactic is working. If a swear word distracts a soldier from initial basic training it could be assumed that soldier is not focused on the task at hand. Does the army need a soldier that is so easily distracted to be responsible for maintaining critical information and communication systems in real world situations? Is this soldier so easily rattled that they become a liability to the mission? The sound of incoming, automatic fire, IEDs, demand for results by leadership are powerful distractions when you are trying to simply program your comms. equipment or plot counter fire. Soldiers are not allowed to bring their parents to basic so they should leave their thin skin at home also and focus on their mission which is to become a trainable soldier.

Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made May 6 at 2022 7:49 PM

CPL Douglas Chrysler — Fri, 06 May 2022 19:49:49 -0400

I really needed to know this.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 7 at 2022 1:00 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sat, 07 May 2022 01:00:12 -0400

I will begin this by saying I try to watch my language and try not to offend people as there are other ways of expression to get one's point across. Also as a DS, I never felt I needed to cuss out a Private to get my point across. My university degree comes from the World University, majoring in the School of hard knocks" With this being said:
What are words? Mostly ways of colourful expression. The video got me to thinking, who voted the word "fuck" a bad word? Watching the video clearly showed the sexual meaning is in the minority of meaning, other meaning are so different. I guess the fact it can be used in anger to humiliate, belittle , demeaner a person to a great degree gives the word its power. Also it takes the loving part of a relationship and can turn it into a violent act of assaulting a person. Words are probably one of the most powerful tools man has ever used. By their usage, you can with the same words either break down a person or build that person up.
So I guess in conclusion, its not always the words we use, but how we use them and the situations we use them in. But hey what do I know, I shoe horses and bang steel.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made May 7 at 2022 11:51 PM

SSgt Dan Montague — Sat, 07 May 2022 23:51:21 -0400

Sometimes it is all that they understand. There was a building I worked in for a while that hosted classes sometimes. One particular day one of the doors wasn't working correctly so the civilian placed a sign on it simply stating "use other door" .I watched as Marines used the busted door completely ignoring the sign. The civilian lady was upset. I told her that you need to be more expressive with her sign. I took a pen and simply wrote in " use the other FUC**NG door" I shit you not, it worked. Less Marines went through the broken door.

Response by SPC Darren Harvey made May 16 at 2022 11:26 AM

SPC Darren Harvey — Mon, 16 May 2022 11:26:26 -0400

You kind of get desensitized with all the foul language. I would get an a$$ chewing and then move on. Then I got a chewing from a staff Sargent, he did not say on foul language. That was the worst chew out I had gotten and will never forget it.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made May 16 at 2022 12:33 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Mon, 16 May 2022 12:33:04 -0400

It’s the exclamation point to a given order, and it means no questions wanted or needed just do it. Sometimes there’s no time and time is often critical so when Gunny said get it fucking done ASAP he meant it and we knew it. He didn’t walk around cussing like a drunken sailor, he was far too professional for that crap. Too much and it loses its effectiveness.

Response by SPC Charles McFate made Jun 8 at 2022 8:27 PM

SPC Charles McFate — Wed, 08 Jun 2022 20:27:32 -0400

I believe that it is the intensity of the situation and not necessarily the words but I think in the sense of military it is used as an exclamation point!

Response by PO2 John Drillock made Jun 11 at 2022 6:27 PM

PO2 John Drillock — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 18:27:54 -0400

Of course not!

Response by SPC EOTrees Myles made Jun 12 at 2022 10:46 PM

SPC EOTrees Myles — Sun, 12 Jun 2022 22:46:42 -0400

It could in some instances, but as for me, I always got in trouble doing push-ups because I laughed so much. I was still a loyal soldier and very valuable to my unit. Whenever we were in formation and the drill Sgt. would get on me or another fellow soldier, they would say something foul and very funny, I would burst out laughing and then, the drill Sgt. would say, "private Myles " give me 20 push-ups and there I was doing these push-ups for laughing, it had gotten to the point that, the drill Sgt, would expect to hear me laughing and said, " private Myles" you'll goin to push your way to china. I would still laugh and do 20 to 30 push-ups.

Response by SGT Walter Drumm made Jun 15 at 2022 11:59 AM

SGT Walter Drumm — Wed, 15 Jun 2022 11:59:24 -0400

Training involves the immediate and undivided attention of those for whom you're responsible. Their respect and attention is what an instructor needs, not their unharmed feelings and sensibilities. If a trainee can't handle a modicum of profanity, how can they handle the brutality of combat?
This IMO is another symptom of the whole "equality of outcome" sickness, where the leadership lacks the moral courage to accept that life in uniformed service isn't for everyone, nor should it be. Softening the experience of initial/entry level training softens the end product, which is supposed to be a basically trained soldier with the courage, discipline and mental and emotional resilience to perform their duty. That doesn't mean every other word out of a drill's mouth has to be a 4 letter one, but if a trainee can't handle a bit of spicy talk they're in the wrong place, because if they report to unit and f*** up they're definitely going to hear it.

Response by CPL Richard Hughes made Jun 18 at 2022 2:52 AM

CPL Richard Hughes — Sat, 18 Jun 2022 02:52:07 -0400

Absolutely, as part of the process of breaking down the old. To remove the unneeded and, rebuild the now gelatinous goo into a Warrior.
I am positive this way runs countercurrent. To the current doctrines of TRADOC or, other branches training commands. I don’t even want to get into that conversation. It would hijack this thread.
JMHO

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made Jun 18 at 2022 4:22 PM

SSG Wayne Wood — Sat, 18 Jun 2022 16:22:22 -0400

When I was in profanity was used by our Drill Sergeants as an attention getter. This was NOT your Mama talking to you anymore (at least most of our Mamas); as a troop leader I could be as profane as the next guy, but when I was hot enough to let one loose at the troops when they weren't being motivated enough to suit me - it got their attention. For me a little went a long way.

When I became a Christian my profanity started to bug me and occasionally I'd let one slip and say, Lord forgive me." The troops thought that was funny until I'd look at them - "WHAT are YOU laughing at?"

"Nothing, Sergeant Wood!"
"I didn't think so!"
A couple of my troops and I have gotten up with each other on FB and one mentioned that. We both had a good laugh about it.

Response by SFC Larry Bennett made Jun 19 at 2022 3:14 PM

SFC Larry Bennett — Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:14:30 -0400

No, it's just an excuse to condone piss-poor Leadership and breeds un-professionalism.

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Jun 19 at 2022 4:12 PM

1SG Michael Farrell — Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:12:43 -0400

No. I was one of the old school fools as a First Sergeant and before that of course. It never occurred to me that this was a problem until three of my direct reports came to see me privately, and told me how much my language bothered them. They then put a cuss jar on my desk. I immediately put $20 in it. They laughed, but I listened to them. It's a harder thing to drop than most of us admit to ourselves. With hindsight, I see it as a fatal flaw in my character and one that haunts me even today. A lot of the the time, it was a verbal sound track that I played to cover up having nothing of merit or help to say. Now I accept that rather than being colorful, I was acting like some ignorant buffoon.

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Jun 19 at 2022 5:44 PM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Sun, 19 Jun 2022 17:44:46 -0400

Enemy interrogators will be sensitive to use only gentle language! Can't have their guests be upset!

Response by SP5 Christopher Brock made Jun 19 at 2022 10:03 PM

SP5 Christopher Brock — Sun, 19 Jun 2022 22:03:48 -0400

As my Truck Master use to say I’m not Cussin at you I’m Cussin at the Situation

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Jun 20 at 2022 6:14 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Mon, 20 Jun 2022 18:14:41 -0400

No, but you can't be one without qualifying expert.

Response by David Larson made Jun 21 at 2022 2:39 PM

David Larson — Tue, 21 Jun 2022 14:39:13 -0400

If youre not cussing while being shot at there is something wrong with you

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Jun 21 at 2022 4:25 PM

SSG Gregg Mourizen — Tue, 21 Jun 2022 16:25:47 -0400

Where certain types of language might help build Espirit de Corps, foul language creates a bad image of soldiers in general.
Where I may be guilty of the crime myself, there are those who tend to over-compensate.
Certain types of language are not appropriate in certain environments.

Being an infantryman. who transferred to a medical MOS, I had to seriously focus on my language, considering the more public environment I was in. Yes, every once in a while I would slip, and even got wrote up once. At the same time, I was surrounded by many soldiers who freely dropped foul language left and right (mostly females).
While in the training environment I also would occasionally slip, and would apologize to those trainees I had been addressing. They would often tell me, it was OK. "We all use that kind of language...", but then I would remind them of how such language effects public image in the real world, and also I have kids, and did not want to be responsible for them picking up my bad habits.
Civilian World.
Eventually we all transition to the civilian market. Foul language creates a huge negative image. Not only are people far to easily offended, but it also puts your intelligence and professionalism into question.
Bad language is habit forming. I, at one point, would put on the uniform and the swear words would instantly start flowing. It would often take weeks to clean up my language. It doesn't matter what environment you are in, eventually you will be moving on to greener pastures. The less aware you are of how you say things, the harder it will be to fix those problems later on.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jun 21 at 2022 9:18 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:18:13 -0400

Nope. But it doesn't hurt, either. The specific words are not important; the intent is.

*Foul language warning*

A SGT who simply cusses wiithout even realizing it: "It's too goddamn early for this fucked up shit; I need some mother fucking coffee," is FAR less problematic, in my book, than a Squad Leader who never cussed, but is a general dickhead: " Let's go, you worthless scum. Those are the most pathetic push-ups I have every seen. Those push-ups are so gay, I swear you must anally ream each other every night and blow each other right after."

First one had 4 curse words out of 14 (counting mother fucker as a single compound curse word). Second one had not a single cuss in 36 words. Which is more detrimental to morale and cohesion? And even less professional?

In my personal experience, the best use of curse words is rare, for emphasis. If your troops know you cuss, but only rarely, and they elicit one of those F bombs, they know shit just got real.

It can also, as you might be able to tell here, lend a certain colloquial feeling to the written word.

"Stuff just got real" just isn't the same as "shit just got real."

Oh, and for all those "cutuesy" cussers with their "darns" and their "shoots" and their "fudges": You're not fooling anyone. A cuss is a cuss. It is the intent that is unprofessional, not the word.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 1 at 2022 12:14 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 01 Jul 2022 12:14:54 -0400

Obviously no. The only place I ever heard cussing with gusto was from the Sr Ncos at Paris Island. And the time someone tied down the flap on the 10 ton and tossed in a smoke grenade on Viegas PR, the 1st Sgt happened to be in that truck and our hero didn’t know that. In unit out Sr NCOs were professional Marines they carried themselves like a man , they didn’t need to holler. It’s the Lower enlisted that cussed like hell, I big difference between being 18 and 26.

Good training and discipline and leading by example builds warriors. Do the work, it’ll be noticed and respected especially if it’s a shitty job and your there shoveling shit with them.

Response by PO2 John Drillock made Jul 1 at 2022 2:53 PM

PO2 John Drillock — Fri, 01 Jul 2022 14:53:17 -0400

Well would brass balls count instead??

Response by PO1 Rexford Dundon made Jul 7 at 2022 12:51 PM

PO1 Rexford Dundon — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 12:51:25 -0400

It builds camaraderie between military members.

Response by Daniel McEleney made Aug 11 at 2022 6:44 PM

Daniel McEleney — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 18:44:28 -0400

No. You can use strong words without swearing and get the message understood