Do you think new officers who come from ROTC still need to go through basic training?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 16:49:36 -0500

I understand that the ROTC program is their basic, but I want to know what everyone’s thinks

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Nov 15 at 2019 5:04 PM

Maj Kim Patterson — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 17:04:10 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member no, officers don’t need to go through basic training, however us smart ones will take the advice of our enlisted.

Response by SGT Kenneth Partyka made Nov 15 at 2019 8:50 PM

SGT Kenneth Partyka — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 20:50:34 -0500

I absolutely think they need to go through BCT. We had a Butter Bar ROTC Platoon Leader who thought he was Rambo (We were OPSEC) and he pissed off our CW4 by being a prick to the platoon. The LT had no concept of what the Army was but had all the answers from his time as a college boy. Chief ate him for lunch and the LT was very quickly moved out of the PLT and the CO.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 9:26 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 21:26:01 -0500

It depends. Some ROTC programs are better at teaching the basics than others. And the seven Senior Military Colleges (essentially one step below the service academies) and seven-day-a-week ROTC programs are better than the once-a-week ROTC programs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2019 2:13 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Nov 2019 02:13:01 -0500

I've done both - I dont think officers should go to basic training.
They do have to participate in a similar style camp experience, which is modeled after ranger school, before they can commission.
I know that their cadet advanced camp is currently expanding to increase the tactical proficiency of young officers as well, but I think integrating them to basic training undermines the differences between the officer and enlisted world and jeaprodizes the way enlisted soldiers could view or respect officers.
I do recognize that many enlisted folk look down on young officers because they feel they dont even have a comparable foundation to basic training, but I think that is pretty untrue and is based in misunderstanding what training officers in ROTC programs actually undergo.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Nov 16 at 2019 9:13 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sat, 16 Nov 2019 09:13:24 -0500

Personaly YES It builds character. Professionally No they can learn what they need from good NCO's They already spend more time in training then the average Soldier. If they appear to be week in an area train them in a respectful way that's what good NCO's do is train Soldiers. I know Yeah there are some out there who are a leadership challenge but what good NCO isn't up for a challenge?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Nov 16 at 2019 1:50 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 16 Nov 2019 13:50:31 -0500

What? Officers go thru Basic Officers Leadership Course (BOLC) after commissioning. ROTC is not basic for anyone.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 8:17 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 08:17:44 -0500

I believe they do, too many officers I've come across seem like they don't know basic soldiering stuff, especially when it comes to leveling with their subordinates. They should have all the skills we do and more.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Nov 17 at 2019 5:36 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:36:13 -0500

Bottom line up front (BLUF), it's up to the cadet & the school he/she is from. The expertise of soldier skills and leadership skills that a new lieutenant has can vary greatly and is dependent on several factors, but two of the major factors are the specific university ROTC program he/she attends, and the individual's drive to learn those skills. Depending on the university, The ROTC program can have a wide range soldier skills training, from zero, to got it all. When I went to ROTC advanced camp in 1978 I was amazed to find that some cadets had never fired a weapon or had done any kind of patrolling or practice of troop leading procedures, or other soldier skills. ROTC Basic Training (optional depending on 2 year or 4 year program), ROTC Advanced Camp (required), and the branch Officer Basic Course should bring everyone to the required and same level, but, unfortunately, it does not. (It's like expecting a kid who never played Pop Warner football to be on the same level in high school as the kid who did.) Then, the rest depends on the cadet. When I was a cadet I participated in the Ranger Platoon and the Honor Guard, both voluntary activities, but activities from which I learned a lot. By the time I went to advanced camp I knew the Ranger Handbook well, I could do a 5 paragraph order in my sleep, I knew the TLP/TCC etc.

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Nov 17 at 2019 6:09 PM

CPT Andrew Wright — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 18:09:56 -0500

No. ROTC cadets have an Advanced Camp that puts them almost even with Basic Training soldiers. Many of them are prior service anyway with three or four years active duty. However, I have met some direct commissioned medical and legal officers who could have used the extra training!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 17 at 2019 10:10 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:10:49 -0500

Yes. Make them suffer and learn.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Nov 17 at 2019 10:57 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:57:32 -0500

Unless things have changed I believe they do go to a camp on a Military Installation as a specific part of their ROTC training. I don't see any valid point in also making them go through basic training. By the time they are done, not even counting that camp they have Four years of ROTC training. Like anyone new as a Commissioned Officer there is still much to learn and listening to those with more experience, both Officers and NCOs can only help them advance. The same can be said for Junior enlisted however they aren't going to have the same level of responsibility or decisions to make that a Junior Officer will. Once Commissioned, there is no short cut to learning, You learn by doing and of course career/specialty training to upgrade and become more qualified.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 11:11 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 23:11:22 -0500

I like the Marine Corps model in that all ROTC Midshipmen with a Marine Option must complete a 6 week Bulldog course at OCS in Quantico. This is normally done the summer before commissioning. Traditional OCS is 10 weeks. Then all new officers must complete an intense 6 month TBS course before they bark one order and go on to other schools.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Nov 18 at 2019 8:37 AM

LTC John Griscom — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:37:59 -0500

I was part of a program in 1964 where I was sent directly to my unit without a basic officers course. The program only lasted one year.
Think I only survived thanks to the senior NCOs in the unit being my mentors, because I got very little from my commander.
Had six days active duty when I placed in charge of 200+ enlisted.
Did have a fair background having graduated from North Georgia College (now the University of North Georgia), a senior military college.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 18 at 2019 12:49 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:49:35 -0500

It has been my experience as a young officer that I was taught the macro level of leadership. I am adamant we start at the platoon or micro level. How are small unit leaders successful? How do they create the down and up loyalty?

Response by SrA Daniel Ludwig made Nov 18 at 2019 2:42 PM

SrA Daniel Ludwig — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 14:42:36 -0500

As far as I know from when I was in ROTC, they do go through a version of bootcamp between their sophomore and junior years of college. It’s on a military installation, run by active duty military personnel, and the ROTC cadets must pass all mental and PHYSICAL examinations set before them.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Aug 3 at 2023 3:54 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 15:54:23 -0400

OBC, as the name implies, is their basic. Another name now days.